Gun Reviews, Community & For Sale
Lets take a look at these to iconical weapons
By: 
sytasyn_syn Posted: July 16, 2008
sytasyn_syn Posted: July 16, 2008 The AK-47 has such a colorful history, to tell you the full story would require a novel and I don't have that kind of time. Same goes for the M-16, both have wonderful story's and many, many wars fought. Some against each other.
Lets first look at the Russian made Automat Kalashnikov 47.
The name:
1.Automat: means automatic (go figure)
2.Kalashnikov: the name of the creator/designer Mikhail Timofeyevich Kalashnikov
3.47: first finished product created in 1947
So...the AK-47 was adopted by Russia and god knows how many other country, along with damn near every militia ever to have the idea that they needed a change in the government. It has become a staple of revolutions and free thinking wackoes everywhere. It cheap cost and ability to fire under any conditions you decide to be in for any reason are the main reasons for it popularity. Shooting 7.62x39mm A.K.A. M43
it packs a nice punch and a good amount of individual's armor piercing capability. Which it being a full automatic weapon, spray+pray seems to be the general idea for this weapon. With a weight of lbs. it is heavy enough to let you know your carrying a weapon but not to heavy for children of many uprisings to handle. Having shot an AK-47 i have to say that firing it on full auto for more the 4-5 rounds if a waste of ammo. The accuracy of this weapon in single shot is bad enough...you'll be lucky to hit a man standing still at 200 m. Now with the recoil the way it is, firing a clip at a time is a waste of 25 rounds, with only about 5 hitting near your desired target. With there being many, many different versions of the AK-47, the true Russian Automat Kalashnikov 47 has a slow muzzle velocity of 700mps and only one attachment...its bayonet. This is a good weapon for certain situations but the capabilities are far less important and known then its name a image. In a twisted way, this is a symbol for freedom
Now lets explore the M-16 series. Created by Eugene Stoner the M-16 has four main version. Having the fully automatic A1 version to the widely used A2 which was made to be semi-auto due to higher ups finding full auto was a waste of ammo. However, it still has the 3 round burst option. The heavier but identical to the A2 in performance but not in looks. The A4 has a detachable handle/rear sight and the integrated railing system for handgaurds. Your M4 version is a shortened M-16 with a integrated railing system, shortened barrel, and collapsible butt stock.
These weapons have become the bread and butter for us in the Armed Forces. Tried and true for over 30 years this rifle lay's next to me as I write this post. Now using this integrated railing system there are so many different accessories and attachment for the A4/M4. Dont worry though, if your an A2 owner there are new handgaurds that make any M-16 able to attach a whole world of goodies and fun toys. All the way from a simple flashlight to a M203 40MM grenade launcher or the Master key Shotgun attachment. Or maybe you want a broomstick handle for a second hold point, maybe a mess of laser pointer and side sights or scopes? possibly you want your railing system to hold your cleaning kit? i think you get the point. Enough about how versatile the M-16 is, let speak statistics. With more rifling (one more twist) and other features, the M-16 accuracy is exponentially better. I personally can tag a person standing still at 600 meters. As well as pick parts of the person at 500m (but I am an expert riflemen). Even still the range of the M-16 triples the length of target tagging the AK has. The muzzle velocity is a respectable 850mps and a weight of the M-16 allows the war fighter to carry a fighting load with more rounds and less stress. 7.5lbs unloaded and the 5.56 rounds are easy to carry and store with out adding a shit load of weight
So now lets get to the gun bashing shall we?
First I got to say I don't hate the AK-47, i actually like the weapon but I swear to you if you keep telling me that the AK is more accurate the an M-16 and the military should switch over to it, imma find your most loved possession/person, soak it in gas, tie it to a tree and shoot flaming arrows at it. What ignorent fuck decide on voicing that opinion. I've seen more itellegence in buddist monks setting themselves on fire for world hunger!!
I need to say this and you need to read, learn, know, and love this next part.
The M-16 is just straight up more accurate at any distance and will never ever ever ever be beaten in the distance arena. simple fast and to the point. Next, the ammo that everyone that has no brain loves to hate...the 5.56(M-16 ammo). For christ sakes people, do you really think the US Marine Corp has gotten the reputation it has from using a gun that doesnt work? NO!!! It doesn't work if you don't know how to us it. If your aim is bad enough to were you need 3 shots of buck shot or eight 7.62 fired in rapid succession to take a man down then don't you ever join my Corp...NEVER!!! I have taken a man down and keep him down with once single shot from my M-16. I know how to aim and I hit him where I wanted to. If you can target a mans chest (which will make him stop moving long enough for a well aimed second shot if applicable)then you just go to hell, you go to hell and you die, or maybe just a range, but either way shut the fuck up about the "tiny and ineffective" 5.56. Besides, you got the three round burst option!
Now speaking of Muzzle velocity, the M-16 is 150mps faster the the AK and in a "who will shot first" senerio, those 150 meters could be your life...always a plus.
I will however give the AK the penetrations award for being able to eat up armor if weak or cover if thin. That would be a useful capability to have but if thats your stategy then thank God you got full auto!!
I mentioned that in a twisted way the AK-47 was a symbol for freedom...well the M-16 has become the symbol of an unstoppable fighting force that will fuck your face and not stop if you dont listen...like an OG pimp, smackin-a-hoe!! Now thats the knid of freedom I'd like to represent. I know I didn't cover everything in this post so if you have anything else to add(for either side) then feel free to comment.
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29 Comments
Reaper308
well said.
another point about the rounds is that you can't compare them by shooting at a block of wood like the M16 vs. AK video on this site does. Yes the 7.62x39 penetrates, and the 5.56x45 doesn't... but you need to fire the rounds at actual flesh or ballistic gelatin to see the real devestation of the round. When fired into flesh or gelatin the 7.62 will make an entrence and usually exit wound traveling straight through. The 5.56 will make an enterence wound then start tumbling end over end causing damage not only the diameter of the bullet, but the height as well before exiting.
I say this to those people who say a 5.56 is just a .22 on a bigger cartridge... well you're right, it is, but the bigger cartridge is what projects the small projectile as such high velocities and makes the round so devestating. like sytasyn_syn said, an accurate shot at center mass with either round will take a man down, but it may be harder to make that accurate shot with the AK.
sarge225
If the greatest millitary force in the world uses the M-16, then I guess you know who the winner is.
Death from Above
M16 hands down is the weapon of choice vs Ak.
The Ak is the poor mans choice because of price. Just look at some of the wafer board stocks the east is making. They are a good weapon if you dont care who your target is. They are the poster weapon for the terrorist.
The M16 is accurate, deadly, and highly effective. My son is in boot camp at this time,week 2, in Ft.Benning Ga. There is no other weapon in the world I would want him to carry as a primary weapon other than the M16.
sytasyn_syn
Well I would love to know where all those AK fans are now....still waiting
Snake
Ak-47 is the soviet gun of choice they can take a beating. and also the ak is russia's way of saying dont mess with us.
m-16s jam alot even though we use them in the armed forces i support them in there decisions.M16 is americas way of saying that we need somthing new.
sarge225
M-16 is the united states weapon of choice, they are acurate and deadly. Also the M-16 is Americas way of saying don't mess with us.
AK-47's are inacurate, they are cheaply made and overall pieces of shit.
the AK-47 is a countrys way of saying "We have a poorly trained army, we have no money, and we really just want to fire a bunch of ammo and hope we win."
brad
Im an ak fan myself.Several of my friends own various ar-15s from diffrent companies,dpms,colt,olympic arms.When we go to the shooting range their ar's jam up non stop while my ak keeps going round after round.I have no doubt that ar-15s are more accurate but but that does you no good if the thing is jammed up.As far as aks being pieces of shit,i would like to see someone shoot an ar-15 or m-16 that has been dropped in the mud.It seems as if it only takes a little grit,dirt or fouling to stop an ar-15.Well i hope this dosent make you guys hate me too much.
USMCFiscella
I have used both ak and m16 no contest AK is the champ. When society melts down i want an ak-47. The us military uses m16's for a lot of reasons, none of which invole combat.
It is very simple 5.56x45mm wounds more than it does kill, thereby taking 2 people out of the fight instead of one(one who is wounded and one to treat him) An AK round 7.62x39mm is meant to simply slay bitches.
You can't tell me that recycling propellent gases back into the upper reciever is the right way for a rifle to work. That is exactly what an m16 does. The AK uses a gas piston system that greatly reduces the chances of a malfunction leaving the majority of the fouling on the piston head. less fouling in the operating group=more reliable
The sand in iraq is like a fine powder putting CLP on an m16 attracts all kinds of dust to the bolt and with the tight fit that the m16 has it will always cause issues. The AK is built with looser tolerances so sand is less likely to cause a stoppage.
I have shot both and i have cleaned both. The only thing m16 has over the ak is range,a normal firefight is usually never outside of 300 meters anyway.
So everyone whos says an m16 is a better operational weapon is dead wrong
M16= High upkeep bitch
AK= Practical weapon of mass destruction
AK better now and better forever.
Death from Above
Then why did the Russians go to 5.45x39 on the AK-74?
USMCFiscella
The russians discovered that they too could also save money and get some extra distance by scaling down the ak round from 7.62x39 to 5.45x39
its all about money
Reaper308
the same reason that we went to the 5.56.... because you can carry more ammo and the smaller rounds do the job.
USMCFiscella:
"The us military uses m16's for a lot of reasons, none of which invole combat."
What do you mean?? the m16 and m4 are still primary infintry weapons being carried as I type this.
USMCFiscella
Hey i know im in ramadi right now typing this to you with my m16a4 with acog right next to me.
when i say The us military uses m16's for a lot of reasons, none of which invole combat." i mean
1.At this point they are familar with them. We have all grown up seeing it as the good guys weapon no matter how badly it performs-- propaganda issue
2. 7.62x51 to 5.56x45 was an attempt to save money on ammo it made the infantryman less lethal.----saving money
Just these two reason show that it was not designed towards combat.
The very fact that it was originally issued in vietnam as a "self cleaning rifle" really makes me ask who at that time was making these terrible decisions?
Does that help clear up the confusion in what was typed?
s8lorenzo
In basic training I qualified well with the M-16A1,I really loved the way it performed on the range. As far as accuracy,flawless. reliability superb! Any caliber within the centermass area is deadly at close range. Any weapon should be treated with great respect in retrospect of why they were manufactured in the first place. I doubt very much when Kalisnikov set out to build this weapon (we know today as the AK-47)He wanted to be remembered as the inventor of a piece of shit Gun. The Russian's as the American's have just as much pride in their workmanship and beside's we all know who make's the best vodka.
PS. It will definately be my AK I will be pulling out for the Apocalypse
greasypaws
well i cant speak for an m16 other than the manufacturers are proud of em' for the money they want a person with some mechanical skills and tools plus a reasonably priced parts kit ie: 150 to 250 can build their own ak i choose to play another way using the same 30 cal round as the ak i have a russian sks the predecessor to the ak no full auto no pray and spray crap aim and shoot even my chinese is reasonably accurate but to each their own to include the size of your wallet
dystubenrauch
i would still take the ak to war over the Mattel 16 it's the most reliable rifle. it responsible for more death than any other weapon system ever made. and also yes 5.56 may do damage to flesh, but if there behind a car or wall good luck hitting them with .223 the 7.62 is not the best round. have you watched top ten combat arms the AK is fist and the M16 is second Richard Venola knows what he is talking about.
support our troops where ever they are!
kiran8654
Well, our infantry doesn't have a choice in what they carry.
In my world they would, and they would keep their weapon and take it home with them.
Special operators that get to chose, often don't chose the M4 variants.
I also own both, and have carried both in Iraq. (one at a time).
In close quarters the AK is definetly better. It doesn't jam, and it has more stopping power.
The AK is heavier, and a bigger pain in the butt.
The AK round is a pig, and not good for distances even in a very good quality weapon. But in a good quality AK, and they are out there, you can hit a dude a 300 meters.
Realistically you are not going to hit a dude at that distance in a fight. A REALLY good shot would be 150 meters, for an M4 or for an AK.
M4 is lighter, more accurate, and a good one won't give you problems if it is properly maintained. Godwilling you have the time and ability to clean it. If you are not returning every day, and after every battle to a secure base the M4 might be problematic.
greasypaws
well i agree about the ak and i also like a gun that i can build myself
kiran8654
The good AK's are Russian, Yugoslavian (from when that country existed), Bulgarian, and Romanian.
The Bulgarian ones are heavier, but they are milled not stamped metal.
The Crappy AK makers are; Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Iran. (and I am told that the countries that now make up former Yugoslavia now make crappy AK's)
China is somewhere in the middle. I have a Chinese AK and I have fired thousands of rounds through it and it has never jammed. I can't say that for my M4, my M14 or even my FN FAL. Also, I can hit a man sized target with my Chinese AK. Something to keep in mind if we ever have to fight them fuckers.
clintlebo
Why does it matter who thinks which weapon is best? Each weapon was built for a purpose. Maybe the question should be more specific. An example: Which weapon, between the AK-47 and the M4 is better at Close Quarters Combat?
Furthermore, what if the question was: which is better? mossberg 500 or Remington 700? I could assume that the question was leading to home defense in which case the mossberg would be superior if the perpetrator was actually inside of my house. However if I saw him coming towards my house at 400 meters, I would definitely take the Remington 700.
To try and tie it together with the AK-47 vs. M4 question: There are many great points by the authors of this thread. It is very true that most of the reliability lies in the individual's training in both the act of shooting and the act of maintenance. There are pro's and cons for each rifle. In either case, I want to be the guy that sees the enemy first, so I can attack with whatever weapon I have.
clint
sarge225
training IS everything. whatever weapon I have is the best
mrs. smithandwesson
the best weapon is the weapon that you have to greet unwelcome visitors.In our house it is the Mossberg 500 pumpgun loaded with slugs and buckshot that hangs above the front door.go ahead knock on my front door!if i dont recognize your knock or your vehicle CLACK CLACK who's there?
Death from Above
This brings us back to the subject of bullet placement/timing
jjdog2
i have shot both weapons while i love the m-16 the ak's and sks's are for dirt and sand lovers if ya cant keep hold of your weapon plain dropsies in the dirt then take the ak/sks.me i hold onto to my ppe
(personel protection equipment)with both hands!if i fall it still is in my hands and not the fucking dirt.i do shoot with people that have ak's
but to my amazment none can hit anything beyond 200 yards.my ar-10 with scope at 400 yards plus.placement is everthing and i dont like wastin money on going bang bang bang.GOD BLESS AMERICA AND MEN WITH GUNS.
sytasyn_syn
but i got to say. i still get a hard on by seeing a hole in a targets head after i shot at it from 500m away...it just feels good ;)
Steve700
Both are highly respected firearms by their users, the AK has reliabilty and hitting power, but the M16 has accuracy and handling. Personally i would take an AK into the jungle or any harsh environment, but hands down the M16 in urban areas.
Nutty Basterd
Military AK-47s are selective fire, just like an M-16, sooo yea you can do one shot or 3 round burst or full auto hmm... that sounds like it has one more option. If I am incorrect on this it would be only that it has semi and full, but I'm pretty sure it has all three, either way leaving out that it is selective as well does shoot down one point made as the M16 being better oh and on the consumer market you can get all sorts of accessories to add pictanny rails, vertical fore grips, red dot sights, holographic sights,etc etc, basically an AK can be outfitted with everything the M16 can even the smaller .223 round so I'm not really seeing who the winner is but I am seeing that there's a lot more to consider even like clintlebo said it might just come down to in which scenario is which gun better. To me this sounds like a contest that would take a lot of people and not just one person's opinion. I have not shot an AR-15 but I am still interested in them. I wouldn't trade my AK for anything though.
sytasyn_syn
....And that proves?
Nutty Basterd
that you left out an option for the AK that made the M16 look like it had another advantage over the AK
wilcam47
m16/ar15's get dirty real quick and start to jam up aks keep firing i have both and eventhough an ar15 is fun to shoot it has more problems than i have ever had with my ak's