I am in the market for a 10mm.
Yall talk me into one.
A specific make and model please.
Why? Not being a smart @ss, I have no 1st hand experience with the 10mm. What is the highlights of one? I'm a .45 guy myself.
They started producing it again I guess, solid pistol for sure.
Dan Wesson makes another 1911 10mm which is a fantastic shooter. Shot the Razor back a few times and it is actually an easy shooting weapon, I'm sure the Colt is just as if not more so.
I got a soft spot for Dan Wessons.
yes they are top notch imo.
I would love to have a Bobtail Valor,
I got a thing for hand cannons.
It's more than a .45 and slightly less than a .41mag.
Man or beast kind of thing.
I reckon it'd make a decent hi-cap rifle round too.
In a nutshell, the .357mag is de-throned (my opinion).
Isn't it hella lot faster then the .45 also? how is the recoil and report compared to say a 1911?
were all hand loads for paper so they were not as hot as defense rounds but it is sharper and louder than the 45 thats for sure. It snaps way more than the push you get from a 45 also.
but, it is actually not hard to shoot. Expensive for the range if your not reloading, and you want to keep your brass even if you do not. You can use it as trade in for lower prices on reloads at most local places doing reloads. Hell that goes for any brass, 10 mm, 357/38, 45, 40 and 9 seem to be ones they really want around here.
Some people load nickel case 357 sig because it is a harder case and less likely to crush when resizing and pushing the new bullet.
I also like the full size Glock 10 mm, It actually shot pretty soft next to the DW also.
TexasLucky has a Delta Elite, maybe he will jump in with his experiences with it when he sees the thread?
No question...Glock 20 is the most durable and reliable. If the regular G20 frame is too thick for you, check out the G20 SF. Thats what I have. Even with full 10mm loads the recoil is quite manageable. Capacity is 15+1. I added a steel guide rod and 22lb wolff spring to mine. It was pretty cheap but helps quite a bit with hot loads. Add some night sights and you're good to go for a little over $600.
Thanks. Lord knows I've worked enough lately to get whatever I want.
I will see if TXLG chimes in.
There are some nasty rounds available for the 10 also.
Yall got any input on ammo for SHTF?
Buffalo Bore and Double Tap seem to load the hottest loads. Of the two, I prefer Double Tap. A lot of the major manufacturers load some pretty watered down stuff. Double Tap is good.
you won't be sorry.
The glock, colt, dan wesson, all fine. Dan wesson seems to have a lot of fans especially in this caliber. I have been thinking about one too. But I think I may just go the way of 400 corbon with the auto and try to find a 610 revolver for the 10 mm. Just need a barrel usually for the conversion from the 45 acp to 400. The 400 seems to be not quite as hot, but it could be. Plus much lower pressure. But then I
Always try to make things more difficult for myself...
just checked and he sent me this link....
Lots of info on 10 mm and the weapons made for it including AR Uppers and such.
I like the Colt myself. I am a 1911 guy and if I was going to get one, it would be this. But they are pricey in my opinion. A cheaper alternative would be a LaserAim (used).
I knew there was a reason I liked you! LOL!
Bit of a 10mm nut...have packed them for CC, duty, entry, even hunting.
1. 10mm 1911s are just like all 1911s ... except worse. Mags,springs, extractors, guide rods, and other parts have to watched more carefully since pressure, recoil slide velocity, etc are all much different than .45acp or .38 Super. Be prepared to spend more money than you think, esp. on mags and recoil springs. Every one of the 10mm 1911s I've bought or built required parts replacement and in most cases gunsmithing to run properly. The Colt dual recoil spring setup is friggin' clownshoes and should be replaced immediately.
2. The 10mm offers better barrier penetration, retained power downrange (outside 25yds), and flatter trajectory than the .45acp, .40sw, .38 Super, and 9mmP. If you don't need or want any of those things then the 10mm may be misspent $$ and unnneeded recoil.
3. "Dan Wesson" may mean original coveted Dan Wesson, or the newer CZ Dan Wesson. There have been differences reported in QC, parts availability, etc.
4. Ditto the G20SF...bombproof, hi-cap, relatively inexpensive, and easy caliber switches to .40SW, .357SIG, and 9x25 Dillon.
5. For antipersonnel use, very few if any 10mm loads will do better than the best .45acp or .40SW stuff. Simply very few modern bullet designed for proper 10mm (1200fps+) velocities, and a .40SW bullet driven to 1350fps doesn't do anything magical....in fact many can simpl fail, resulting in a smaller wound channel and possible overpenetration.
Vaquero, think about the S&W N-frame 610.....6-shot 10mm sixgun. I had a 4" one and it was a treat. Fed with moon clips or half moon clips, cheaper 40sw plinking ammo, and can handle any 10mm stuff out there. The 610 Nightguard 2" is another option but I can't see a good use for it.
If you have plenty of extra $$ and patience, then the 10mm 1911 can be a very capable and fun gun. if you're just looking for a fun piece to explore the 10mm, then the Glock 20SF would be my top choice.
DoubleTap ammo would be my first choice for 10mm stuff....I had him load me a metric shit ton of stuff and it was top notch. He also offers a 125gr solid copper HP that is a real screamer, supposedly designed for the 10mm, and should be a good choice if your gun will eat it.
Off the shelf, the Winchester Silvertip, CorBon DPX and CorBon PowRBall will do the trick...just not really loaded to full 10mm potential.
G20 it is.
I'll let yall know when I get one.
BTW, I turn 50 on the 17th ; )
Good choice. I would definitely check out the SF frame. It seems to fit most people's mitt a little better than the original hunker
One down side is that with the polygonal rifling that glock uses, they don't like you shooting lead cast rounds through it. I personally don't think it would be too much of a problem as long as you clean the fouling after shooting, but they don't recommend it. I picked up a lone wolf drop in barrel for around $100 (for when I shoot lead) just for the piece of mind. All in all, that thing should last forever.
Thanks for the tip.
I had read about the rifling/lead issue, just not of the aftermarket barrel.
I've got pretty big hands, I'll have to fondle the SF.
One of my friends has a pair of the 20s. I remember liking the feel and they shot very well.
Will waz u want to spend $$$$$? full size compact? I'm a H & K guy so think it over but try to shoot a few at a range let us know we can always use the intell. TY
Get a 9x25 Dillon barrel and some ammo from DoubleTap....drop-in conversion, and it'll get a 115gr pill up over 1800fps.....lighter bullets up to 2000fps. I shouldn't have to tell anyone what those numbers mean from a handgun with regards to barrier penetration.
Plus it is LOUDDDD and fun. Great for coyotes; makes 'em look like they swallowed a grenade.
you use the G20 mag for 9x25, correct? Its something I may be interested in later down the road... Also, I assume companies like KKM, bar sto, lone wolf etc.. make 9x25 bbls?
won't 9mm frag at 1800+ fps?
destabilize ok, but fragment?
I was really referring to the "lighter bullets up to 2000 fps". Still, that’s pretty much maxing out what the 9mm is capable of in my opinion. I may be wrong, as I'm no expert on this, but I would be afraid the projectile would just go through and through without expanding, or possibly frag. I'm sure there are some 9mm bullets that are specifically made for high velocity. I was kind of getting at that... Does the 9x25 have to use a bullet specifically tailored for high velocity, or will regular 9mm bullets hold up at 1800-2000 fps?
This might be irrelevant.
I have some older speer .357 cal., 146gr, Elmer Keith style,semi jacketed hollow points.
Everything I read on these had cautions about low velocity and high velocity failures.
Maybe that's why I haven't found them lately.
Low velocity would seperate the jacket from the slug and high velocity would frag in flight.
It was kind of a hollow point semi wadcutter with a thin 3/4 copper jacket.
I still have some of the loaded rounds. I think they run around 1400 fps out of the Dan Wesson.
I'm afraid to run them through the lever action.
I had FMJ in mind. I can see a hollow point, even bonded, having velocity issues, same with JSP being lead noised.
each have some seriously hot assed 80 grain 9mm...
For those of you carrying 40, Federal put together a 135 grain trucking in the mid 13's fps that Wallmart sells. It's the Black and Silver box, $22.00 for 50 rounds.
Ammo wise that is.
One of my buddies (with the twin G20s) bought some 90gr frangible 10mm.
He said it wont go through much but it tears the shit out of the first inch of anything.
He said it was what Air Marshalls use. He also said they make one for the .380 that hits like a .40.
they consider it an upgrade from the 229, ha, upgrade.... bltttttthhhhp
and I've read and heard from trainers that they use .357 sig with excellent shot placement.
I'll ask Jim Ward, he is a trainer and qualifier for the Feds, ICE, HLS and FDLE...
The biggest problem with with shooting on a jet is the people you don't want shot. Explosive decompression is an iffy thing that depends on altitude. They are trained what not to shoot. lol
this may be different, but I have a buddy who is a pilot for a major commercial airline. He has attended their required training courses and is now licensed to carry. He is only allowed to carry a USP .40 (not sure if that's the airlines rules or the FAA). I remember when he bought it a few years back, he got a really good discount directly through HK. I think he paid around $400 even. Before the plane leaves the gate, he is alerted of any air marshalls traveling with them, so he's aware of who else is armed on the flight.
I'm not sure why an air marshall would carry 10mm. Maybe I mis-interpreted vaq. He may have been referring to the brand of ammo in a different caliber... but if his friend told him that air marshalls carry 10mm, that sounds like un-needed overkill to me. I would think that they could get more concealability, mag cap, less recoil, and less OP with 9x19, maybe even .40. They make frangible rounds in those calibers also. The 10mm doesn't make sense to me. A game warden, yes... but an air marshall? I must have took it the wrong way...
I wonder too.
Just kinda took it that way when he said it.
Maybe it is a particular brand name in a milder chambering.
It would certainly make more sense.
Read it in Guns & Ammo a while back, but the round used in the 229 which was the standard issue, not sure. Personally I would think they would let them carry whatever they shoot the best and maybe dictate the round limitations for those weapons.
Even the 357 sig seems like it would over penetrate with to much possibility of it taking out someone behind a bad guy. Unless it is frangible? Hell 10mm frangible must make one nasty hole.
Look mommy I can see the people behind him through his tummy...
(too the music of pink floyd the wall)
is a commercial pilot for Delta,he carries a .40,same thing they let him know when an Air Marshal is onboard to.
1. Last I checked the FAMs usd Gold Dot in their .357SIGs....most of the claims about [insert secret squirrel team here] using exotic ammo are complete crap. If memory serves one of their requirements was penetration of seatbacks with adequate terminal performance on the other side.
2. *Some* 9mm will frag at 1800-2000fps....I ran DT GoldDot 115gr @ 1801fps in gel at an ATK lab....it looked like a starfish Held together nicely and penetrated adequately. The ATK was surprised to see it hold up, since 1800 is well outside it's performance envelope. Some folks like their pistol bullets to frag, but not me.
3. The 90gr 10mm mentioned is probably the LeMas, DRT or another uberbanger manufacturer, none of whom see any verified end use by the feds or anyone else. Pistol bullets are pistol bullets, and several of those Mach-8 unobtanium bullets have been analyzed and found to be plain old copper, lead, plastic, etc. Some of their rifle-bullet technologies are impressive but their pistol rounds are nothing special to me---except especially expensive.
4. Speer has an LE-only .357SIG load that is advertised as reduced-penetration.....nothing special really, same for the LEO reduced velocity 165gr .40 they used to make for the FBI. The needs of the FAMs are not that different than the needs of any LE agency. Their expected engagement range is similar to most police shootings, and include barriers like most popo paln for in selecting ammo.
5. DT uses bullets spec'd for .380, 9mmP, and .357 in their 9x25 lineup. Not much if anything is specifically made in the .355/90-147gr/1700-2000fps. 147gr is about the longest bullet the cartridge can really use, and even that wieght is kinda of a pisser since those bullets are made for 900-1100fps.
6. CorBon's 80gr 9mm DPX is a .380 pill in a 9mm shell; they made it specifically for tiny pocket guns like the Rohrbaugh so I doubt it's anything past 'warm'.
I always joke that the 10mm "will blow a hole in you big enough to throw a dead cat through" but the reality is that the .40 and .45 do fine for most pistol uses, and the 10mm doesn't do much on bipeds that those calibers won't do. The 10 takes the cake for hunting, extended distance/trajectory, and barrier penetration, but for antipersonnel usage it isn't that far above standard service calibers. Plus, you pay for the added power in felt recoil, blast, and in some cases muzzle flash.