Forums / Gun Discussion / 2nd Gen Glock 22 failure...

3 years 42 weeks ago, 10:44 PM

Ishootdaily

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We lost another Officer, that makes 3 in 28 days...

Maybe they will start forcing them to train or at least make use of the Range once a month, more would be better though.

Anyway, from what has been passed through the grape vine down at the range from responding officers. LEO David Crawford returned fire shooting 5 rounds off before he ended up on the ground with 4 rounds in him. What has not hit the news yet is the fact that the Rear Rails detached from the frame some how at some point shooting those 5 rounds he got off. None hit the shooter who turned out to be a 16 year old boy. He turned himself in hours later, he claims the gun went off by accident, though 4 times is a bit of a stretch if you ask me....

I should get to see a report in the near future or at least get the facts from the training officer in the next couple of weeks. When I do I will definitely explain what took place if there was any proven catastrophic failure of his Duty Weapon.

The only way it could detach from what I can figure would for him to have taken it down and not installed the read pin, or it was so loose it shook out.....

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 42 weeks ago, 11:12 PM

luckybychoice

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good grief

that sucks,please follow up on that.I wish the kid would off ate at least one round.

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
3 years 42 weeks ago, 12:35 AM

ShottyGuy

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back up(s)

My bro was an officer and had 3 pistols on him and his shotty in the vehicle.

He said reloading sux but a catastrophe = death.

I am Really very sorry about your dept.losses.

Going to the range once a month....wow many practice weekly or more like that Arizona guy.

I hate what he did but looking at it from a militaristic side he owned the situation and hit a much bigger % than he missed unlike that moron in the court room who couldn't hit a lined up panel of old folks at point blank range. Is all practice and repetition.

The weapon failure may have been after a shot from the assailant hit/nicked it.

I am interested what happened also and what weapon he fielded.

3 years 42 weeks ago, 9:14 PM

Ishootdaily

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He came up on a 16 year old clean cut boy in a parking lot at 10:00 in the evening with note book in hand for a suspicious Man call and finds a boy walking calmly as if heading home from a friends.

He called out to the boy and walk up to him to ask if he had seen anyone walking around a business a block away.

Now David had 25 years on the Dept, he was not a rookie and knew his shit. He made a judgment call and went with the good kid choice instead of the Hard Ass Cop choice.

The kid turned to him with his hands in the pockets of his hoody. As soon as he got within a few feet of the boy, out came the kids hand and bang. He is hit, he pulls his duty weapon and gets the first shot off misses and the rear rails break, he is hit in a fast succession of follow up shots, bang, bang, bang, center mass. He is attempting to return fire with a weapon which never fails which not only failed but has just left him unarmed facing the 16 year old Boy who has just killed him.

This all happened in the matter of seconds...

and no the Glock 22 did not get hit,

This is a known issue and Glock refuses to call a Recall on, instead they offer an Suggested Up Grade.... while claiming most times the weapon will function with just three rails points just fine....

neat huh....

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 42 weeks ago, 7:30 AM

luckybychoice

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not good

not good at all.

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
3 years 42 weeks ago, 4:05 AM

hot_diggity87

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may he rest in peace

It's always sad to hear about a police officer getting shot, they try to do the world good... a mojority of them anyways... 4 accidental well placed shots? come on... if the courts bite down on that and take it.... they're insane, this punk needs to do hard time... 16 or not. a very good reason why some people should take birth control. I feel sorry for the officers loved ones, and may the officer rest in peace.

I'm not home officer, take me drunk!
3 years 42 weeks ago, 4:39 AM

lvglock

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R.I.P

It is always sad. When a LEO is killed in the line of duty. I'm sure he will be missed.

3 years 42 weeks ago, 8:57 PM

Ishootdaily

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Without doubt it bites beyond belief when a first responder is murdered. Personally I feel if a First Responder is murdered then the Perp should get death, period. These individuals are in a different job that does set them aside. When others hide or run away from a situation, they run into the situation for the soul purpose that others may live.

I feel it makes it such a situation that if an automatic death sentence was the known final result people would be less likely to commit such a crime.

If you own a Glock you might want to look and see if your weapon is listed below....

=======================================================================
GLOCK
MODEL 19,
9MM LUGER CALIBER, PISTOL

WARNING: This make and model pistol may have the potential for an UNINTENTIONAL DISCHARGE of a cartridge with the action open.

The Glock, model 19 pistol slide has a bottom protrusion, whose function is to push cartridges from the top of the magazine into the chamber . When the pistol is jammed in a double feed situation, the slide protrusion can come in contact with the primer of the jammed cartridge and cause UNINTENTIONAL DISCHARGE while the action is open.

Glock, Inc.
6000 Highlands Parkway
Smyrna, GA 30082
(770) 432-1202

Source:
AFTE Journal, July 1993; Volume 25, Number 3:206-208

GLOCK
MODEL 19,
9MM LUGER CALIBER, PISTOL

WITH SERIAL NUMBER PREFIXS AN,BP,BR, BV, BW, BX, DL, DM, DN, DP, DR, DS, DT, DV, DW, DX, DY, & DZ.

WARNING: These pistol may have the potential of the action to malfunction as followings:
The slide locking back on a full magazine.
Failure to lock into battery because the barrel lug drags on the slide lock.
The magazine follower tips or sticks in the magazine tube.

Glock, Inc.
6000 Highlands Parkway
Smyrna, GA 30082
(770) 432-1202

Source:
AFTE Journal, April 1990; Volume 22, Number 2:227

GLOCK
SEMIAUTOMATIC PISTOLS MANUFACTURED BETWEEN SEPTEMBER 2001 AND MAY 2002 WITH SERIAL NUMBERS STARTING WITH “E”, “GSSF” OR “USA” REGARDLESS OF CALIBER

WARNING: Glock pistols manufactured between September 2001 and May 2002 with serial numbers starting with “E”, “GSSF” or “USA” regardless of caliber have experienced FRAME RAIL FAILURES.

The specific issue is the potential of breaking a rear frame rail. Glock notes that under most conditions the pistol will continue to function with three rails.

Glock, Inc. does not officially call this a recall, but an upgrade at no charge. The complete firearm should be returned to Glock for a replacement frames that will have the original serial number with a “1” prefix added to it.

If you believe you have a pistol affected by this notice contact Glock at (866) 225-4098.

Source:
www.glocktalk.com February 17, 2002
www.GSSFonline.com

Added 5/25/03

GLOCK

MODEL 26
9MM CALIBER, SEMIAUTOMATIC PISTOL,
SERIAL NUMBER PREFIX DGU, DHR & DKU

MODEL 27
40 S&W CALIBER SEMIAUTOMATIC PISTOL
SERIAL NUMBER PREFIX DGD, DGV, DHS, DHT, DKV, DKW, & DKX

Recall: Mr. Don Bulver, warrant department, of Glock, Inc. indicated the recoil springs produced before September 1999 may shear off on some of these pistols due to over hardness of the support tube.

Replacement springs will be distinguished by a vertical mark from the center on the front polymer portion of outer ring of the guide rod assembly which will appear to be a mold line.

Glock
6000 Highlands Parkway
Smyrna, GA 30082
(770) 432-1202

Source:
Company Notice, February 21, 2000

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 41 weeks ago, 9:55 PM

runawaygun762

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Interesting

I have owned a Glock 22 and I still own a Glock 19, 26, and 34. The 26 has only had a few hundred, maybe 4 or 5, through it, but the 34 has had well over 2,000 rounds through it, and the G19 has had easily twice that many, and the G22 I had had close to 3,000 rounds, without ever suffering any problems.

This seems like a shitty situation made worse by a weapon failing. Glocks aren't infallible. No mechanical device is. But I'll still continue to put my faith in the reliability of my Glocks.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
3 years 41 weeks ago, 11:25 PM

Ishootdaily

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Very True...

My comment about an Inflatable weapon failing was more to prompt those of the mind that they never will or do fail, to read a bit and check to make sure they are not in possession of one with known possible issues.

Glock will fix or replace out right if a weapon has any flaw from the factory...

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 41 weeks ago, 6:40 PM

tallguy007

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3 LEO in a month to many all of them in the bad part of town where THEY hate LEO and any one not THEIR color very SAD!!!! I got a modle 17 1 st gen they should let the LEO use what they can shoot they best and use ANY ammo they can get their hands on!!!! TY

DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR
3 years 41 weeks ago, 6:58 PM

Ishootdaily

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Tallguy

very true, I hand my SP01 to the different LEO's that do happen to wander into the (Police Owned) Saint Petersburg Police Pistol shooting range. Every single one falls in love instantly with it. They like the fact that it is Double/Single and can be carried cocked and locked, Hammer Down, or Half Cocked in double action.

Officers that hit like shit take a shot or two and then are grouping at 45 feet in a 3 inch cricle. With the Glocks and that freaking 8 pound trigger they are hitting in the general torso area with most of the rounds, but....

That is exactly so about the area each of the killings took place. The worst part is that the area is expanding and while it is, the people whom are moving out to other areas are talking the Ghetto actions and mentality with them....

They also need to demand more out of them (LEO's) as far as trigger time goes. Hell they have the AllSate building (Totally modern Fully computer operated Range) range that is hardly used either.

So you have two Ranges owned by the Police Department which see a total of 10 Officers (always the same ones) a month out of 500 officers. The Kadets get more trigger time for Christs sake and the Ghetto Gang isn't starting behind the 8 Ball like LEO's.

Officer David Crawford had his freaking pen and notebook in his hand, WTF? LEO wear many many hats, but in the end, The one they should not ever forget is the Gun Fighter Hat... That is the one which decides in many instances on if they go home at the end of their shift or not...

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 41 weeks ago, 7:29 PM

Klump

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I agree w/ 007

Agree! I have a G 22 and it has never failed me! Let LEO's carry and shoot what they feel safe and secure with...(9mm or bigger) . That's just the way I feel. Earlier in the year the local police dept. issued their officers Gen 4's (not sure what cal sorry) without a single shot of practice at the range. That's just stupid if you ask me. They were asked to hand in their old firearm when they walked in for this new one, then go on duty!

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3 years 41 weeks ago, 7:52 PM

runawaygun762

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I'm sure most departments have policies on levels of force and which order they should be used if the situation permits. In the MP Corps we live by the phrase "Use the minimum amount of force necessary to control the threat". If a guy can be talked down with verbal pursuasion, good. If he needs to take a mag of 9mm to the face, so be it. Our levels begin with MP presence (showing up) and end with use of deadly force.

I think too many LEOs have that in their mind as a sort of list of things to try. I think the reverse should be true. When I arrive on a scene, the first thing I do is figure out who I need to shoot. I am ready to engage while I'm still in my car. Think it's hard? How many ft/lbs of energy does a Crown Vic or Chevy Impala at 20 mph generate? More than a 9mm, I bet.

It's a lot easier and safer for a cop to mentally deescalate than it is for him or her to arrive on scene with the "Verbal domestic, same goddamned couple in the same trailer in the same trailer park arguing about the same shit for the third time tonight" mindset and have to mentally switch on when some cranked-out fucktard thinks the cop is there to bust his meth lab and starts blasting away.

As an MP, I assume the entire army hates me because I represent what happens when they have too much fun. I also realize that as a LEO on a military installation, nearly all the people I deal with have at least some firearms and hand to hand combat training, however shitty I may think it is. Many people I deal with have combat experience, and this thought never leaves my head.

Unfortunately, not all MPs share my mindset, just as many civilian LEOs view their sidearm as just another thing that pulls on their lower back. It will continue to happen because like soldiers on deployment, complacency sets in and causes people to make assumptions that can ultimately kill.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
3 years 41 weeks ago, 4:00 PM

HecklerKoch45

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2nd Gen G22

I had a 2nd Gen G22 and shot a magazine through it and took it home. Then my brother came into town and I gave it to him as a wedding present haha cool wedding present huh? Anyways, we went to the range and the thing was jamming like crazy and failing to feed and eject and after i was talking glock up to him all this time and then the one i give him fails miserably. Made me look like an ass and like i gave him a shitty gift knowing it sucked ass. Kinda pissed me off frankly. I dont know if he has went about trying to have glock correct it or not but the damn thing couldnt even make it through a mag without failing. Switched mags and extractor still nothing.

~Sig Sauer 516 Patrol 5.56 NATO~HK45 .45 ACP~HK45c .45 ACP~HK P30L 9mm~HK P30 .40 S&W~W. German Sig Sauer P220 .45 ACP~Walther P22~
3 years 39 weeks ago, 6:34 AM

gomer

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condolences.....

First, my sincere condolence on the death of any and all LEO's in ANY dept.
Second, I have had friends in law enforcement all my life. I for one, do not object to an officer issueing (sp?) orders to me, & will always comply to the best of my ability. Some people disagree, but they are assholes i.m.h.o. (apologies for the language, but i calls them like i sees them!) .

3 years 39 weeks ago, 1:50 PM

TXLUCKYGUY

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re:

1. Death of an LEO....sick of it. I haven't been able to take the Finding Nemo stripe off my badge much at all this year, and no signs of improvement. Gobs of sniper, ambush, assassination-style killings; shades of Depression-Era engagements. See the Texas Ranger's, the late Jim Cirillo, etc. for how to properly deal with those kinds of adversaries.

2. Glock 22 2nd Gen....that's what Glock gets for putting the .40SW in a 9mm. Some Beretta's suffered similar issues (early cracking in Model 96 Inox locking blocks) due to the .40SW on a 9mm frame. Plenty of other pistols had similar 'teething' with the .40SW.
Browning was one of the few makers that added significant weight/strength to their standard 9mm platform when making a .40 pistol.
Our agency has run 3rd Gen G22s for years now; the only failures have been directly attributable to officers who did not properly maintain or operate the weapon. NYPD also had many failures early in the their adoption of the G19 (not rail related if memory serves). Colt, SIG, all the major manufacturers and plenty of the smaller ones have lemon products, recalls, etc. Same for ammo....Winchester and Federal just had large recalls on police and commercial ammo.

My logic is: People suck, mostly. People make stuff, so all stuff is subject to suck in various degrees.

3. 8lb trigger? If wonder if that is dept-mandated, since standard Glock factory triggers are 5.5lbs. I have owned, shot and carried many Glocks with 8lb triggers installed, and none have presented any problems with quick, accurate shooting (my current 'nightstand' pistol is a Glock with an 8lb trigger installed). I did the TEES Hostage Rescue course with a Beretta 96D (10lb trigger, DAO). Competent shooters do not have any problem with 8lb Glock trigger pulls, or the trigger on accepted police service weapon (SIG, Colt, Beretta, Glock et al). I personally detest DA/SA triggers, strongly preferring a consistent trigger pull (DAO, 1911, Glock et al).

4. I train my folks hard and often....but there are still plenty of cops all over who don't practice on their own, do everything they can to get out of training, think it'll never happen to them, never master basic skills, etc. I cannot understand their thought process, because I am a warrior and they are just schmucks in a cop suit. Runs hit the nail on the head--same goes for soldiers the world over--too many of them are wearing the uniform and not taking it seriously. The warrior professions are NOT to make money, get a degree, have fun, kill time, etc. People count on us to take their lives in our hands, and we do the same with ours daily. It is easiest with the head well clear of the ass.

3 years 38 weeks ago, 4:06 PM

HecklerKoch45

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so...

So I went to visit my brother in jersey who has the 2nd gen glock at the moment, and I asked to see it. I took it out, cleared and safety checked it, pulled the trigger, took the slide off and look around in it. When I went to put the slide back on, the damn thing jammed up somewhere along the way and I instantly had a glock that was stuck, halfway back together. I didnt do anything differently than I normally do when field stripping glocks, and this one just wouldt budge and was not on all the way. The slide had about 3/4 of an inch left to slide back onto and the barrel and guide rod were sticking out the front. We finally got it back on and left it alone after function testing it a few times. When he comes back to ohio this july, he is bringing it with him and we are sellin that thing the minute he gets back and replacing it with something else. I would have taken it back with me but I wanted him to have something to defend himself with until then.

~Sig Sauer 516 Patrol 5.56 NATO~HK45 .45 ACP~HK45c .45 ACP~HK P30L 9mm~HK P30 .40 S&W~W. German Sig Sauer P220 .45 ACP~Walther P22~
3 years 37 weeks ago, 4:30 PM

Ishootdaily

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HK

Sounds like it had just about the length of the read rail left before being completely seated?

just wondering...

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 37 weeks ago, 7:26 PM

Reaper308

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Glock Grenades

Damn... between ISD and HK45, I don't think i've ever met anyone who hates Glocks quite as much as them. They work for me. I've had about 5K rounds through 3 glocks without a failure.

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
3 years 37 weeks ago, 7:43 PM

Ishootdaily

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I have not one thing against Glock firearms.

Hell I love CZ's but know for a fact that the original CZ 75 had a hammer on it that sucked ass. The beaver tail was too short so the web of your hand would swell up behind it and the hammer spur was so damn long it would not only bite you if you use a high grip but it could and would take a bite out of you if it could.

They also had a bad habit of jambing or not depending on the individual wepaon and it snapped slide stops quite a bit...

They redesigned the Slide Stop and they quit braking and the FTF's / FTE's...

I don't own a Glock because I really do not care for Polymer pistols for strictly tactile reasons.

I had one of the Taurus 24/7 OSS Operators in JCP configuration which had been sent to SOCOM for the trials before they were called off. I bought it through Coles Gun Shop which I know the owner of.

It was a very nice shooting 45 and it was very accurate. With 13 rounds of 45 in it is was not a light gun, until you shot half the rounds and then it kept getting lighter. I traded it for the Savage FP10-2 that I now have.

Not because I hate Taurus, but because I really don't care for plastic pistols...

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 37 weeks ago, 7:49 PM

Reaper308

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tupperware

ok. What's your take on the P07? Don't like it cause its plastic? I held one and it felt a little awkward.

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
3 years 37 weeks ago, 8:21 PM

Ishootdaily

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Shoots ok, won't own one though. I do not care for the Omega Trigger group, the grip feels odd to me and you can not change it out. Also the fact that every other CZ 75 magazine you own will not fit in the damn thing. To me it is nothing more than a late attempt to jump on the Glock wanna be Band Wagon.

It is fast as far as follow up shots and coming back on target, quick target transitions, but personally I do not care for it.

The closest one I would get to without buying a Glock would be the S&W M&P...

I will own one Glock if not more in the future. I want a 17, 23 and possibly a 23c.
I'll make some basic changes with the connector, aluminum trigger and possibly a metal Wolf frame on the 23.

The 24c I will probably put a mag well on it and machine the slide for a holo or dot.

I will get a Phantom for a couple of reasons.
=====================================
It shoots just like the 75 and SP01.
I can weight the front of the frame inside the dust cover.
It takes all standard, common CZ 75 magazines.
It has the Older Trigger group with De-Cocker and I do trigger and action jobs on those already.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 37 weeks ago, 10:13 AM

HecklerKoch45

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Dont hate em

I dont hate glocks at all man. I just dont trust em anymore. The third gens made before the 4th gens came out work just fine, and probably one of the most reliable in the world, but gen4 is completely different issue, and now having had experience with a 2nd gen 22 that was a total piece of crap, i just cant trust em anymore. Why would I buy another gun that I have previously had problems with? I also am not a big fan of the grip on the glock. I guess you could say that I have been spoiled by HK and Sigs. The gen 3 glocks are great guns, but lets face it, they work, and thats about it. Most of the things people refer to as accessories on glocks, come stock on HK pistols, so idk, if i wanted a gun that worked as well as an HK without all the extra features, id buy a solid gen 3 glock and be done with it. As for the 2nd gen glock 22, it wasnt able to go back any further. It was stuck and was trying to function as if it was seated all the way. If I tried to pull it back farther, the slide came back, barrel and guide rod stuck out the front, and slide wouldnt go past the back of the frame, it was really weird and I have never had that happen to me ever, with any glocks. We are sellin it as soon as he comes back.

~Sig Sauer 516 Patrol 5.56 NATO~HK45 .45 ACP~HK45c .45 ACP~HK P30L 9mm~HK P30 .40 S&W~W. German Sig Sauer P220 .45 ACP~Walther P22~
3 years 37 weeks ago, 10:46 AM

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Fucking Glocks.... The fact that there is a problem and not only is Glock not doing anything about it but cops are dying because there plastic pieces of shit are falling is down right despicable!!!!!!! Man the fuck up and do whats right!!! If i had it my way everyone would carry Sig or HK!!! Typical Glock bull shit, they are acting just like most hard core Glock fans, they will never admit or say anything bad about them because they don't want to admit there wrong. It is better to admit there is a problem and correct it than to ignore it and act like nothing is going on. Especially when lives are at steak. Those guys are risking there lives for all of us, for God sakes give them a weapon that is not gonna fail, sometimes the cheapest option isn't the best option!!

3 years 37 weeks ago, 11:57 AM

HecklerKoch45

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yea...

or that.... :)

~Sig Sauer 516 Patrol 5.56 NATO~HK45 .45 ACP~HK45c .45 ACP~HK P30L 9mm~HK P30 .40 S&W~W. German Sig Sauer P220 .45 ACP~Walther P22~
3 years 37 weeks ago, 1:10 PM

samD

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late 3rd and now 4th generation Glocks.
They are working on the problem.
In God's name do you think a multi-billion dollar internatioanl corporation is going to skirt safety issues?
Their are Glock people and Glock haters. I love my 2nd generation Glock 19. It just works and is my carry gun. I have others that I also carry.
Quit bashing each others guns and grow up!

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