Forums / Gun Discussion / Is the .308 and the 7.62x51 the same round?

5 years 22 weeks ago, 12:08 AM

fordvg

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.308 Win vs. 7.62x51--The Straight Scoop
Before we go much further, we want to address the oft-posed question "Are the .308 Winchester and 7.62x51 NATO one and the same?" The simple answer is no. There are differences in chamber specs and maximum pressures. The SAMMI/CIP maximum pressure for the .308 Win cartridge is 62,000 psi, while the 7.62x51 max is 50,000 psi. Also, the headspace is slightly different. The .308 Win "Go Gauge" is 1.630" vs. 1.635" for the 7.62x51. The .308's "No-Go" dimension is 1.634" vs. 1.6405" for a 7.62x51 "No Go" gauge. That said, it is normally fine to shoot quality 7.62x51 NATO ammo in a gun chambered for the .308 Winchester (though not all NATO ammo is identical). Clint McKee of Fulton Armory notes: "[N]obody makes 7.62mm (NATO) ammo that isn't to the .308 'headspace' dimension spec. So 7.62mm ammo fits nicely into .308 chambers, as a rule." You CAN encounter problems going the other way, however. A commercial .308 Win round can exceed the max rated pressure for the 7.62x51. So, you should avoid putting full-power .308 Win rounds into military surplus rifles that have been designed for 50,000 psi max. For more information on this interesting topic, read the following articles: Gun Zone's 30 Caliber FAQ; Cruffler.com Technical Trivia, June 2001; and last, but not least, Steve Redgwell's .308 vs 7.62x51 Analysis, which really provides a definitive explanation. Reloaders should also note that military ammo often is made with a thicker web. Consequently the case capacity of 7.62x51 brass is usually less than that of commercial .308 brass. You may need to reduce recommended .308 Winchester loads by as much as 2 full grains, if you reload with military 7.62x51 brass, such as Lake City or IMI.

"WAR IS A RACKET, I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street, and for the Bankers." Major-General Smedley Darlington Butler USMC Ret. 2 time Medal of Honor winner.
5 years 22 weeks ago, 1:24 AM

Anonymous

.308

i have a 1895 spanish mauser chambered for .308,any suggestions for a mid range handload for this rifle(powder type and charge and common .308 bullet weight)i have looked for awhile and am unable to find data for these older guns

5 years 22 weeks ago, 1:29 AM

fordvg

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Man, I don't know about that. I would say a 147 grain or 150 grain bullet. I use a lot of Accurate powders and 2520 is the best for 308. I would try a few rounds with a light load and go from there and see.

"WAR IS A RACKET, I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street, and for the Bankers." Major-General Smedley Darlington Butler USMC Ret. 2 time Medal of Honor winner.
5 years 22 weeks ago, 1:33 AM

Anonymous

take your time f350

think on it a bit and then message me a base load or two.i have nothing to loose,otherwise this old sweetheart stays in the cabinet and that would be a shame!

5 years 22 weeks ago, 1:35 AM

fordvg

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How long is the barrel?

"WAR IS A RACKET, I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street, and for the Bankers." Major-General Smedley Darlington Butler USMC Ret. 2 time Medal of Honor winner.
5 years 22 weeks ago, 1:41 AM

Anonymous

barrel length

is 21 inches.by the way this gun is originally chambered for this cartridge,not rechambered for it.the gun has full factory wood and i even have the original bayonet.i need a load for it so i can shoot it in our range's foreign military rifle competition 200 yd,300 yd and 500 yd. both standing and prone to include a rapid fire group!

5 years 22 weeks ago, 1:47 AM

fordvg

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I would use a 150 grain bullet with Accurate
AA# 2460 40.5 grains of powder
AA# 2520 41.9 grains of powder
AA# 4064 40.9 grains of powder
these are all starting loads.

"WAR IS A RACKET, I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street, and for the Bankers." Major-General Smedley Darlington Butler USMC Ret. 2 time Medal of Honor winner.
5 years 22 weeks ago, 1:50 AM

Anonymous

just curious

where are you getting your data?and what kinda pressures are they loading for?

5 years 22 weeks ago, 1:56 AM

fordvg

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From Accurate's reloading data web site. This came from they site. I can send them an e-mail and have one of they tech's to see what they think? www.accuratepowder.com

"WAR IS A RACKET, I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street, and for the Bankers." Major-General Smedley Darlington Butler USMC Ret. 2 time Medal of Honor winner.
5 years 22 weeks ago, 2:01 AM

Anonymous

if you dont mind!

then we will both,as reloaders know for sure.i haven't used any of the accurate powders yet.i like to use hodgden like 4350,4895,4831 and h380 not to mention these are available locally.have you tried any of the DATA powders?supposed to be similar to accurate but i dont know as i havent trie them myself

5 years 22 weeks ago, 2:07 AM

fordvg

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You talking about the data powder for Accurate? I had some 2200 Data podwer that I used for .223 and I loved it. Just can't get it anymore. Hey, the .308 did not come out until 1952, so that rifle has to be rechamber for .308. Hey, I have to go, talk to you later and I will look up these other powders and see.

"WAR IS A RACKET, I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street, and for the Bankers." Major-General Smedley Darlington Butler USMC Ret. 2 time Medal of Honor winner.
3 years 35 weeks ago, 7:01 PM

elgoo

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Saiga lied to me

According to what you guys are saying, the stamp on my Saiga .308 Ak-ish rifle (IZ-139) is incorrect. It is located just below the bolt and to the right of the safety switch is and Says .308 win, and below that it says 7,62 X 51. Any idea why this is?

3 years 34 weeks ago, 12:31 PM

TLtactical

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308 vs. 7.62 X 51

This is the same issue as the 223 vs. 5.56

While the ballistics and some minor items are somewhat different they both are interchangable. The military version is slightly more powerful is all.... and cheaper....

Best Regards TL “It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.” ---Aristotle Greek critic, philosopher, physicist, & zoologist (384 BC - 322 BC)

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