Forums / Gun Discussion / 357 sig vs 357 mag

3 years 40 weeks ago, 6:07 AM

mainecathunter

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357 sig vs 357 mag

Thinking about a 357 sig in a sig 239 or a 357 mag in a ruger gp 100. Any help in the balistics, on that one. Will use as a back up for wounded black bears.

3 years 40 weeks ago, 8:44 AM

TXLUCKYGUY

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.357M all the way

The .357SIG cannot be compared to the .357Mag for any hunting/game purposes.

1. The P239 barrel is short enough that the max power of the .357SIG isn't taken advantage of.

2. The .357M can load much longer/heavier bullets that the .357SIG. For any dangerous game use (wounded black bear definitely qualifies), penetration is the absolute priority. Heavy jacketed or hardcast lead bullets, 158gr -180gr are what I'd choose and the .357SIG cannot be efficiently loaded with them. I'd take even a 3" GP100 over the P239.....4" or 6" would be better.

3. One-handed shots under stress, including contact shots, are frequent against bears....this application begs for a revolver, which won't jam if "limpwristed" and can function properly in a contact shot (most autos won't).

3 years 40 weeks ago, 10:58 AM

Ishootdaily

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Also, with the Sig the muzzle flip and hit would be pretty stout...

You could take the Ruger and get it cut for moon clips which would speed up reloads by at least x2 faster if not more right away.

though personally I wouldn't consider a 357 as a good choice for a Bear... 44 yes... 357 not so much....

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 40 weeks ago, 11:04 AM

luckybychoice

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357M

as a back up for Bear,back up to what? a bow or shotgun,i'm just wondering.I use a Marlin lever action in 44 Mag.and carry a Ruger SuperBlack hawk in 44 Mag as a back up, Both loaded with Hornady 300gr.Jacketed HP XTP,and i think that is the minimum caliber i would hunt bear with personally.

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
3 years 40 weeks ago, 2:36 PM

Ironmike15

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357

Well I agree with all of the above...I love both of these calibers for their intended purposes. Their capabilities can be stretched into service, but other calibers intended for large game hunting would certainly be more gratifying. Probably the smallest caliber for black bear would be the 10mm in the auto format and the 41 magnum in the revolver. Both can also perform many other duties when called upon and with proper loads and bullet type.

3 years 40 weeks ago, 4:11 PM

baronello

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357

I have never fired the 357 sig, but used the 357 mag as a duty weapon and for concealed carry. I don't hunt bears, but it is my belief that this round, properly weighted and jacketed, can handle just about anything, especially when fired from a lever action rifle, except for the largest grizzlies etc. If I was concerned about such animals when I was camping, I would carry a lever action Marlin 444 - which will stop anything short of an elephant etc.

3 years 40 weeks ago, 8:56 PM

Ishootdaily

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and they kill it and do not just piss it off beyond belief, they just won the lottery....

It might die, but no time soon after being hit...

BTW: The Black Bear is the worst for anyone to run into in the wild. It will chase you down and it will eat you.

----------------------------------------------
Bob Milek, who wrote a little paperback book called "Handgun Hunting across America" for Shooting Times (late '70s or early '80s, I've got one at home). He was on an Idaho black bear hunt using dogs. The bear bayed up on the ground rather than climb a tree. Using cast bullets in the .357, he shot the bear 3 times between the eyes at point blank range. He stepped to the side and put one in the ear canal to kill it. The 3 between the eyes never penetrated the skull but just slid up the skull under the hide and stopped between its ears. He said no more .357 mag on bears and no more cast bullets. He went to the 44 mag and tough jacketed bullets.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 40 weeks ago, 9:49 PM

Ironmike15

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black bear 357m

I have read about the 357 magnum at great length. I have heard the many exploits that the cartidge has accomplished. To me there is no doubt that a hot loaded 180 to 200 grain hard cast bullet through a hunting length barrel can kill a black bear. It was done quite often in the past..but to coin one of my favorite authors..John Taffin..there is a big difference between hunting a bear and being suprized by one..also with so many superior choices now available, why would you bother. 44 magnums have many suitable bullets and loads for the virtually any task. Plus they can shoot 44 specials for social loads. A 41 or 44 magnum would be a much better choice for large game hunting. As I said I truly appreciate both 357s but you will be happier if you choose the 41 or 44.

3 years 36 weeks ago, 3:58 AM

mainecathunter

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357 sig vs 357 mag.

Just picked up a win 94 trapper in 44 mag ae. 16 in barrel. I think that will answer the bear question just fine. Thanks for the help, and any recommeds on the ammo? Thanks.

3 years 36 weeks ago, 4:53 AM

TXLUCKYGUY

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ammo

Most of the Winchester and Marlin rifles specify jacketed ammo, same for the Ruger carbines.

The Winchester 180gr Partition Gold, Hornady 158gr XTP, or Speer 170gr Gold Dot JSP would be my first choices. Al should have adequate penetration for panthers. Heavier, tougher bullets are the best medicine for even slightly dangerous game.

3 years 36 weeks ago, 1:16 PM

mainecathunter

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Thanks Ill be using them on black bears. Just a back up for bow hunters, but I dont want my dogs killed ..Thanks for the info.

3 years 36 weeks ago, 10:53 PM

Ironmike15

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ammo

There are so many adequate choices. I really like the rifle you just picked up. I love the 44 too. I don't have much experience with 44 rifles but I have lost count long ago of 44s with pistols. My 44s love the winchester silver and the hornady lever evolution. buffalo bore has heavy 44 specials that are quite potent and very mild to shoot. Buffalo bore and randy garret have some super heavy loads that will handle anything. Corbon has some excellent hunting loads too. John Taffin has a book called 44. And in it he goes through a lot of ammo..what rifles it will cycle through..accuracy.. and ballistics. It may benefit you to pick that book up. I know your rifle will become a favorite. Everyone who has one that I have met loves theirs.

3 years 36 weeks ago, 11:15 AM

mainecathunter

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I traded a model 760 rem pump in a 243 cal for the win. 44 trapper, I think I did ok. Didnt use the 760 so what the hell. Better off with something you will use. Thanks again

3 years 36 weeks ago, 12:07 PM

Ishootdaily

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I'd rather the 94 too!

Something about the 94 and being in Maine it is probably one of the keepers. I have my dad's 30/30 94 he got from my mom the year I was born in 1962. It looks new except for a scratch that my son put on it playing around with it.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 35 weeks ago, 4:38 AM

TXLUCKYGUY

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arrrgh!

mainecat,
I apparently had a double-brainfart. Not only did I assume you were using them on panthers due to your username, I gave you rec's on .357M rather than .44M per the original post!

In the .44M lever action, look at:
Gold Dot 270gr JSP
Hornady 300gr XTP
Winchester DualBond 250gr (newer load, may be tough to find)
and Federal Fusion 240gr

All should penetrate well and expand a little in Br'er Bear. Any bear above say 250-300lbs and I'd start looking at heavy, non-expanding/FMJ pills. Hopefully those are few and far between on your hunts.

3 years 35 weeks ago, 4:50 AM

Ishootdaily

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TXLG

250 - 350 lbs isn't all that big up there for a mature one.

http://www.foggymountain.com/trophy_room.shtml

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 35 weeks ago, 5:05 AM

TXLUCKYGUY

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eeeek

Only 2 things on this planet scare me: bears and zombies.

Down here in TX, black bears are rare, and even rarer above 250lbs. Same for LA, AR and OK last I checked.

I had planned a hunt in WI a long while back; their record black bear was 600+lbs, I believe a world record at the time. I suppose Maine is like WI in that respect; a TX whitetail could probably ride those big fat WI deer. Bigger prey usually = bigger predators.

ANYthing 4-footed and 250+, whether African hoofstock or dangerous game, deserves a very deep-penetrating round for a clean kill or any chance of a stop. In .44M, I'd use a jacketed/bonded solid; I think CorBon offers a heavy jacketed .44M hunting round, as does Buffalo Bore.

I loaned my .35 WAI to a co-worker for hogs; even the standard Remington 250gr JSP blew up in a little 60-lb porker and failed to exit; hit a big bone I s'pose. Heavy/stronger bullets are always my preference for game other than small varmints.

3 years 35 weeks ago, 12:07 PM

Ishootdaily

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Black Bear

I've no desire to go out and poke a Bear either. I figure if something is big and mean enough to rip a Car open like a Tuna Can, well He can have his patch of Woods. lol

really really..

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 33 weeks ago, 7:52 AM

mainecathunter

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hound work

I am with you pokin a bear is not good thing. A dead bear cant run again. I enjoy the hound work. The cold trailing, the jumping the bear, the hot track.
The dogs bay up the big guy, or put him in a tree...They stay there and keep him up till We get there, the norm at that point is to pull the dogs off, and go home. Thats the norm.... but sometimes it doesnt work out that way...

3 years 33 weeks ago, 8:11 AM

Ishootdaily

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Up in Woodland Maine just outside of town is the local dump which is used by everyone in the area and five other towns. So there were all these Black Bears used to go out there and dig through it and scrounge scraps.

Then people started making it a thing where they would put the kids in the truck or car and take them out and feed them bread and stuff. I mean there were loads of people doing this and no one ever had a problem ( they were very lucky not to have ). It went on for years, the Bears never went into any of the populated areas or caused any issues. Again all the years and no problems, but in time they did stop people from feeding them out right.

So this guy gets into the position of Town Manager and he gets to talking with the County which talks with the State and they sell Raffle Tickets to these *Hunters* who almost to a Man was from out of state. They went out and shot all of the Bears, the damn things would sit on the ground and beg from you. Always stuck in my mind how some things happen like that...

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 33 weeks ago, 8:51 AM

TXLUCKYGUY

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sick

I'm all for *hunting*, whether it's for food, thrill, protecting oneself or property, or conservation/management. However, a lot of what gets called 'hunting' is, to me, no more skillful, challenging, or thrilling than waiting in line at the supermarket to buy a steak.

I find this especially odious in the case of dangerous-game carnivores in the lower 48, who are rarely plentiful or enough of a problem on their own to warrant conservation/management hunts, and who generally are considered a meal for most folks. To hunt a large predator without fair chase is disgraceful to me.....the thrill is that the actual 'hunter' is determined pretty much by which way the wind is blowing. The case related by ISD is sickening....that 'problem' was created by people, not bears. I'm terrified of bears but I'll roast in Hell before I would do that to them and call it anything but cowardly.

I did deer 'hunting' when I was young, the way most folks around here do it: inside 100yds (usually 40-50), from a camo'd stand, over bait/feed. No challenge at all to me, and I haven't done it since I was a teen.

Cabela's did a spread in their catalog years back covering a Native American woman, about 50yoa if memory serves, who'd taken over a dozen B&C whitetail bucks on foot with handmade equipment, no camo, no stand, no feed/bait. SHE is a hunter. The guys in TN who take 400lb boars with spears or large knives....that's much closer to my idea of hunting.

'Hunting' is much more fun, and noble, than 'waiting'. Stealth is one thing--reducing something to a unskilled way to get away from the 'effin loved ones' is another.

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