Forums / Gun Discussion / .380 acp or .40 acp (walters)

5 years 46 weeks ago, 10:53 PM

gladiator 1969

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I have talked with a few guys. Myself I'd like to get a .380 for personal use but quite a few say go with the bigger caliber. All input I will consider and respect. I will buy one before the new pres is seated.

awg
5 years 46 weeks ago, 10:56 PM

Anonymous

better hurry!

the messiah will soon begin to rule!i personally like .380 because it usually comes in a smaller gun but for stopping power the .40 has it beat!

5 years 46 weeks ago, 11:41 PM

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gladiator1969,

Welcome, and I would go with what you are comfortable with. I personally would go with the .40 but that is me. Shoot both, pick the one you like. Hell, buy them both if you can afford it, or law allows it. The .40 is what alot of law enforcement uses as a standard issue round so ammo may be easier to come by depending on where your at and such. I myself go with what the military and law enforcement use so if shit ever hits the fan and it all folds up you know you'll be able to scrounge ammo from some place if need be.

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." Kevin Spacey: (The Usual Suspects)
5 years 46 weeks ago, 9:42 AM

Reaper308

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gladiator

try a 9mm, it's between the two

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
5 years 46 weeks ago, 10:31 AM

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Stopping Power

The Drs in the Morgues and ERs have stated that it takes >200 ft lbs of energy to effectively kill a human being. The smallest round that will do that is a .38 cal. Effectivness is increased dramatically with the use of Hollow Points/Cor-Bons/etc.
The main problem with the big calibers is size and going through someone or thing and hitting something else. You as the shooter are legally responsible for WHEREVER that bullet stops. If you kill the badguy and hurt and innocent, you are guilty of a crime of hurting the innocent.
I personally feel that the 9mm is more than adequate for stopping power at almost 400 fl lbs of energy. The 9mm can safely be carried and handled by most anyone. And remember the larger the caliber the smaller the penis size of the carrier.

5 years 46 weeks ago, 10:42 AM

LLE

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I do not agree with your last sentence. When I was shooting the Quad 50 mount, and the 57mm recoiless, I instantly got a VERY large head!! LOL

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
5 years 46 weeks ago, 10:36 AM

Ebear

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samd

check out the Taurus Judge.iT CAN SHOOT A .410 SHOT GUN SHELL OR A .45 COLT..OR BOTH!!!TALK ABOUT STOPPING POWER.AT CLOSE RANGE

...check... G-AZ
5 years 46 weeks ago, 10:38 AM

scudrunnernrh

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go with the .40, it has a lot to offer, good stopping power, good penetration, good capacity, decent price for ammo, lots to choose from, the .380 is just a watered down 9mm

We're not going to just shoot the sons-of-bitches, we're going to rip out their living guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. Gen. George S. Patton
5 years 46 weeks ago, 10:40 AM

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Handgun Ammo Stopping Power
All of us have been exposed to the varying theories regarding which type of handgun bullet is best for defensive purposes. Some proponents (Dr. Julian Hatcher) believe that "bigger is better" while the National Institute of Justice performed a "computer man" study a number of years ago which suggested that light and fast bullets achieved the most lethal results.

As more and more data becomes available, theories change. Evan Marshall wrote definitive studies in 1992, 1996 and 2000 after examining the results of thousands of actual shootings. His conclusions came as a result of actual shootings and not from firing bullets into wet newspaper, gelatin or some other artificial medium.

His data is based on "one shot stops". This is defined as: 1. a single hit to anywhere on the body not counting the head, neck or extremity shot: 2. when a subject stops shooting or striking blows if that was what he was doing and 3. runs no more than 10 feet before collapsing. In other words, Marshall’s studies examine what happens in the first few seconds after a shooting.

In the past decade, major advances have been made in bullet design which adds to the lethality of the projectile. Every major US bullet manufacturer has their own proprietary projective which they claim is best for the job at hand. New calibers such as the 357 SIG have appeared on the scene while more data has been accumulated on relatively new bullets such as the 40 Smith & Wesson. Marshall’s newest study takes these events into consideration.

32 ACP - Most of the smaller caliber firearms such as this caliber and the .380 ACP are carried as "back-up" guns by law enforcement thus the increase in data from actual police shootings. The CorBon 62 gr. JHP round was involved in 17 shootings with 11 one shot stops which achieved a 65% rating followed closely by the Winchester 60 grain Silvertip which was fired 162 times and caused 104 stops for a 64% rating. The Federal 65 grain Hydra-Shok and the CCI 60 grain Gold Dot achieved one shot stops 63% and 60% of the time.

380 ACP - The top rounds in this category were the Federal 90 grain Hydra-Shok and the CorBon 90 grain JHP+P which both rated a 70% one shot stop rating. While Federal 90 grain FMJ ammo was used in a whopping 245 shootings, it only achieved 55% one shot stops.

38 Special - With the introduction of semi-auto pistols, this caliber was relegated to secondary status. This data is from 2 and 3 inch revolvers which limit muzzle velocity & therefore results are less than other comparable calibers. Both the Winchester and Federal 158 grain LHP+P offerings were involved in 158 shootings with the Winchester round making 121 single shot stops for a 68% rating and the Federal loading making 120 one shot stops for a 67% rating. Most all of the 16 loadings examined fell in the 60 percent range with the Federal 125 grain Nyclad LHP+P round earning a 61% rating. It’s clear than the long-used 158 grain lead hollowpoint pushed to +P pressures is the best round for this caliber.

357 Magnum - Once the king of law enforcement handguns, this caliber has also been replaced by large capacity auto-pistols. The data collected for this caliber came from 2 and 3 inch revolvers, not the longer barreled type. The top round was the Remington 124 grain JHP followed by the same loading by Federal. Both loads achieved a 91% one hit stop rating. Most other loads ranked in the 80% area with the Federal 158 grain Hydra-Shok achieving a 78% rating.

357 SIG - This is the most current law enforcement cartridge and therefore, shooting data is limited. The top rated cartridges were the Remington and Federal 125 grain JHPs. Both were rated at 91% one shot stops. Of the 9 loads evaluated, the poorest was the Federal 158 grain Hydra-Shok which was involved in 41 shootings with 32 one shot stops for a 78% rating.

9mm - This was the first semiauto pistol to be used extensively by police agencies and replaced the 38 Special and 357 Magnum round. Early loadings of the 147 grain round caused major stopping problems however current 147 grain designs are vastly superior. Clearly the best 9mm loads are those driven to +P+ pressures. Of the 20 loadings evaluated, the top load was the Federal 115 grain JHP +P+ involved in 209 shootings with 190 one shot stops for a 91% rating. The Winchester 115 grain JHP +P+ and 127 grain Ranger SXT +P+ both had 90% one shot stops. All five loads driven to +P+ pressures ranked in the top 5 followed by all bullets loaded to +P pressures. Rounds manufactured to standard pressure ratings comprised the bottom 12 loadings in the study.

40 S&W - This caliber has become extremely popular with law enforcement agencies due to the perceived deficiencies of the 9mm round. All manufacturers have at least 2 loadings of this caliber and it has served very well. The Remington 165 grain Golden Saber was used in 311 shootings and made 292 one shot stops for a 94% rating followed closely by the CCI 165 and 155 grain loadings and the Federal 155 grain Hydra-Shok bullet. These 3 loads made 93% one shot stops. Other manufacturers loads in the 90% range were the Federal 155 grain JHP and the CorBon 135 and 150 grain JHP bullets. Thirteen other loadings were evaluated with the poorest being the Winchester 180 grain FMJ that was involved in 134 encounters and made 95 (71%) one shot stops.

45 ACP - This caliber has been around for almost 100 years and is still the top rated round. More police agencies are using this round due to its proven stopping ability. The large diameter, heavy bullet is the basis for the "momentum" theory of stopping power however actual results in shootings show a mix of "light and fast" and "slow and heavy" rounds. The Remington 185 grain Golden Saber was involved in 148 shootings and caused 142 one shot stops for a 96% rating followed closely by the Federal 230 grain Hydra-Shok which caused 200 one shot stops in 211 shootings for a 95% rating. Eight of the 16 loadings examined rated above 90% one shot stops while 5 others rated in the 80s. The poorest stoppers were the Remington, Federal and Winchester 230 grain FMJ rounds which achieved 62% one shot stops.

It’s difficult to say that one type of bullet is best for all calibers and, in fact, these study results show that the best results come from a mix of heavy to light bullets which defy most theories. It is clear however that some loadings are much better than others and the decision is ours with respect to which we choose.

5 years 46 weeks ago, 12:29 PM

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The reason it is "difficult" to say that one type of bullet is best within one caliber or inside all calibers--is that the data were not treated for statistical significance. For example, if you look within one caliber category like 40 S&W, you would test each of the data groupings between each other [94, 93, 90 and 70 percent one stops] for the significance of difference between them. The question to be answered is "in how many cases out of 100 such trials, would those results have occurred BY CHANCE?" My guess is the statistical testing of the results in that "study" would show that the results would have occured by chance in a very high number of trials out of 100. Put another way: there is "no significant difference" in the effectiveness between any of the loads, despite the raw percentage differences that may look "better" or "worse". If you tested the conglomerate 94/93/90 percent group versus the 70 percent group, you might obtain a relatively low number of chance results per 100, indicating a high significance of difference, and demonstrating "do not use the Winnie 180 gr, FMJ". On the surface, you might say you can just look at the results and come to the same conclusions, but I assure you, you can get fooled more often than not.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
5 years 46 weeks ago, 11:00 AM

Ebear

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SAMD

IM GONNA START CALLING YOU THE MILE....CAUSE YOU ALWAYS GO THE EXTRA MILE ON INFORMATION THANKS BIG GREEN MILE!!!!!

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5 years 46 weeks ago, 11:08 AM

samD

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ebear like in

High Mileage and worn out...LOL

5 years 46 weeks ago, 11:10 AM

Ebear

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LOL

THAT TOO

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5 years 46 weeks ago, 11:03 AM

Reaper308

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stopping power

it looks to me like the lighter bullet weight for each caliber performed the best. Higher velocities = more energy delivered at impact. I would have like to see the stats on the 357 sig. I think its a great defensive round.

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
5 years 46 weeks ago, 12:39 PM

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i would say to go with a 9mm like reaper stated allllll the way up there. 380 rounds cost way tooo much and 40 caliber is just plain silly, if considering 40 just go to 45

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 46 weeks ago, 12:46 PM

Reaper308

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cold

.40 ain't silly, you be silly. .40 rocks balls

.40S&W and .357Sig are my two favorite defense rounds against two legged threats. I like .45+P loads too, but you get higher mag cap and similar stopping power with .40

In gladiator maximus' case, I suggested 9mm because it sounds like a first gun. I wouln't recommend .380 for defense and he said ".40 acp"... so i'm not sure if he meant .40S&W or .45ACP. I would recommend a 9mm over those for a first piece.

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
5 years 46 weeks ago, 12:49 PM

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They also rated the .308 win as 100% one-shot stoppers, and I know of an incident where a suspect was shot in the chest through a windshield by a police marksman, he got out, shot a cop, and ran off two blocks before collapsing. Not a very good one-shot stop for a 100% rated round. I agree completely with the 9mm being more than adequate with good rounds. If the choice is only .380 or .40, definitely go with the .40. The G27 is a small, easily carried and concealed weapon that packs a great punch. If other calibers are still in the running, the 9mm is, in my mind, the best all around cartridge for defensive use. Low cost and of practice ammo, high capactiy, low recoil, small frame size, and very wide range of bullet types and wide availability of ammo make it much better overall than the other choices. never trust one shot stop rates as most people will fire more than one round in a defensive setting anyway.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 46 weeks ago, 12:56 PM

Reaper308

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runaway

sounds like a freak occurance. i'm sure it happened, but I wouldn't count on it again. Most people will agree that a .308 has a 100% stopping rate with a well placed shot. I wonder if the windshield had a factor? maybe deflected the bullet placement? should've done the ol two to the chest one to the head! lol

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
5 years 46 weeks ago, 1:06 PM

runawaygun762

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I agree, Reaper

However, even a freak occurance takes away from the 100% rating. My overall point is that by using the one-shot stop garbage, you might base your choice on a caliber that is not as effective as one in which you can put multiple rounds into the target very quickly and accurately.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 46 weeks ago, 1:07 PM

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i agree with the 357 round. I wouldnt mind getting the 357 chambered glock (33 i think), alot of police are carrying these now. but the difference between 40 and 45 are so minimal (ballistics wise) http://www.gunslot.com/pictures/balistics

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 46 weeks ago, 1:12 PM

Reaper308

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minimal difference

thats why I like .40, more mag cap than .45

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
5 years 46 weeks ago, 1:23 PM

Ebear

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reap

dontcha have more varieties with .45.more choices in ammo?

...check... G-AZ
5 years 46 weeks ago, 1:32 PM

Reaper308

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not really

I can find just as much .40 ammo as .45. all the good plinking FMJ's and defense JHP's are made in .40S&W. here, the cost is in between 9mm and .45acp. a box of 100rd winchester white box at walmart is about $25 and .45 is $30. as far as mag cap... newer poly guns like XD's are getting better mag cap in .45, but 1911's (which is probably the most popular .45) only hold 8 rds. where I can fit 13 in a more compact .40. I'll take those extra 5 rds, in a smaller gun, with very similar stopping power.

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
5 years 46 weeks ago, 1:35 PM

Ebear

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my taurus .45

takes 12 plus 1 in the chamber

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5 years 46 weeks ago, 1:44 PM

Reaper308

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ebeer

you have a poly pistol like I was talking about. how many more rounds does the 24/7 in .40 hold?

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
5 years 46 weeks ago, 1:47 PM

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reafer

you have 3 differant .40 in the 24/7 pro....two hold 10-1 the other 15-+1

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5 years 46 weeks ago, 1:58 PM

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penalized

damn that would suck if they made you carry 10-1. lol

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
5 years 46 weeks ago, 1:37 PM

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dam, i thought mine was bad. win white box 100 9mm is 20, used to be 18 and 45 is 22 used to be 20. 30 dollars for the same thing is rediculous. i thought walmart set same prices everywhere, just different taxes state by state

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 46 weeks ago, 1:42 PM

Reaper308

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walmart winchester FMJ

ours are approx:
9mm- $22
.40- $26
.45- $31

They have all gone up about $3-$4 in the past 6-8 months

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
5 years 46 weeks ago, 1:46 PM

coldfront

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walmart

see here for 40cal it 30 a box. i dont get how they price this. but cant wait to see what it will cost next month or so

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5 years 46 weeks ago, 1:54 PM

Reaper308

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walmart

price will probably go up a bit, but I don't think too much. I would be more worried about availability. Last time I was in the walmart closest to my house, they were out of .40 and .45. only had a couple boxes of 9mm

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
5 years 46 weeks ago, 2:02 PM

coldfront

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walmart

no shit. i was just there this morning. nothing in 22 (i dont get that) but i buy it for pratice, much cheaper. but 2 boxes of 9mm (50 round bixes) no 223 no 308 a few 40 no 45 and they get their deliveries on thursday, so either they get any or it was scooped up quick because of that Jan 20th hoopla

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5 years 46 weeks ago, 1:21 PM

GLOCKSTER

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.40 hands down

.40 hands down

If guns are outlawed I'LL BE AN OUTLAW!!!!!!!!! If guns kill people then beds cause pregnancy.
5 years 46 weeks ago, 1:24 PM

coldfront

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to each his own i guess, how much more capacity are we talking though. i guess it varies by manufacturer. 2 to 3 rounds?
where im at 380 rounds and 40 rounds are twice as much as 9mm or 45, i dont get why but....

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5 years 46 weeks ago, 1:40 PM

coldfront

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ebear

your taurus has a little stick with a flag that says bang on it dont lie. lol you have the 24/7 ?

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5 years 46 weeks ago, 1:43 PM

Ebear

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coldfront

yes i do 24/7 pro.45 its a sweet gun.fits nice in my hand and goes bang 13 times in a row

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5 years 46 weeks ago, 1:47 PM

coldfront

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ebear

i was looking into one. not a bad 45 for the price.

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5 years 46 weeks ago, 1:48 PM

Ebear

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i really like mine

plus the lifetime warrenty does'nt hurt

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5 years 46 weeks ago, 1:50 PM

coldfront

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arrrgh kids

dont you like it when they come into the room with that "wait until you see what i did face"? guess i'll be painting this weekend.

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 46 weeks ago, 1:51 PM

Ebear

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lol

thats part of the deal bro

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5 years 46 weeks ago, 1:53 PM

coldfront

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i was just going to mention the lifetime warranty. especially being in florida, god forbid i had to send it, its not too far away. but i was going to shoot one this weekend. maybe if i still have the time now,

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 46 weeks ago, 1:57 PM

coldfront

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gotta love em. lol i sold my 9mm carbine, my 380 and 380 compensated and the wifes old 22 so i got some money to burn up. a 1911 is nice but if im spending that much, it's going to be a rifle. the taurus looked good, since you like yours, i might have to get it then i'd still have money left over for a few hundred rounds. also bought a walther p22 for the wife. not a bad piece

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 46 weeks ago, 2:01 PM

Reaper308

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how much did you get for the carbine? get a rifle! I was so proud of you for wanting a M1A but now..... you and ebeer can play pocket pool in the basement. ebeer, you rack and break

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
5 years 46 weeks ago, 2:04 PM

Ebear

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reap

come over so i can chalk my cue..........

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5 years 46 weeks ago, 2:08 PM

coldfront

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lol re;reaper

i got 525 for it 80 for the 22a jiminez(shicked me, i thought i would have to pay for someone to take it) 100 for the 380 and 160 for the 380comp. I still want the m1a, but noone has them available. i check everyday. friend of mine said the range we are going to on the weekend has one but, we'll see if thats true.

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 46 weeks ago, 2:11 PM

Ebear

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shick?

new english coldfront????

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5 years 46 weeks ago, 2:12 PM

Reaper308

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no, very old

I was shicked to see that people still used that word

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
5 years 46 weeks ago, 2:14 PM

coldfront

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lol, those 2 keys have been giving me shit lately

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 46 weeks ago, 2:14 PM

Ebear

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lol

i knew a dude that had a nervous break-down and he had to get shick treatment

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5 years 46 weeks ago, 2:17 PM

coldfront

coldfront's picture

Rank:
Lieutenant General
Points:
1281
Join Date:
Nov 2008
Location:
virgina

you look up felch yet???? youll need shick treatment after that

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 46 weeks ago, 2:20 PM

Ebear

Ebear's picture

Rank:
Speaker of the House
Points:
8497
Join Date:
Jun 2008
Location:
elgin, il, United States
lol

no man it may shick me for life

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5 years 46 weeks ago, 2:24 PM

coldfront

coldfront's picture

Rank:
Lieutenant General
Points:
1281
Join Date:
Nov 2008
Location:
virgina
well since it's almost

well since it's almost dinner time. let me allow you to veto your chimichangas. felching is when a guy leaves his knuckle children in another mans backdoor THEN........ sucks it back out. you felcher

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 46 weeks ago, 2:26 PM

Ebear

Ebear's picture

Rank:
Speaker of the House
Points:
8497
Join Date:
Jun 2008
Location:
elgin, il, United States
NO SHIT

IM DOING THAT RIGHT NOW.....IS THAT WHAT ITS CALLED?

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5 years 46 weeks ago, 2:30 PM

coldfront

coldfront's picture

Rank:
Lieutenant General
Points:
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Nov 2008
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virgina
haha

you are using a flexy straw though right?

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 46 weeks ago, 2:32 PM

Ebear

Ebear's picture

Rank:
Speaker of the House
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8497
Join Date:
Jun 2008
Location:
elgin, il, United States
LOL

DON'T YOU GOT TO PAINT????

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5 years 46 weeks ago, 2:35 PM

coldfront

coldfront's picture

Rank:
Lieutenant General
Points:
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Join Date:
Nov 2008
Location:
virgina

hahahaha bright and ugly tomorrow morning. but have to start dinner soon. how did i become the house bitch when i still make more money working from home then the wife??????

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 46 weeks ago, 2:38 PM

Ebear

Ebear's picture

Rank:
Speaker of the House
Points:
8497
Join Date:
Jun 2008
Location:
elgin, il, United States
CAUSE

SHE'S A CRACKHEAd remember????

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5 years 46 weeks ago, 2:44 PM

Reaper308

Reaper308's picture


Rank:
Secretary of Defense
Points:
6226
Join Date:
Jun 2008
Location:
Airstrip One, Oceania

I hope Coldfront is not too upset with that particular brand of humor, because wives, as we have seen on another post, may be sacrosanct or untouchable, both literally and figuratively. I prefer not to be attacked for differing on what is or is not humorous or to be labelled a prude, but that "humor" is IMHO disrespectful to him and his wife, and is way over the line for reasonableness of content.

*Disclaimer: not intended to suggest that these are the actual words or thoughts of Reaper308*

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
5 years 46 weeks ago, 2:47 PM

Ebear

Ebear's picture

Rank:
Speaker of the House
Points:
8497
Join Date:
Jun 2008
Location:
elgin, il, United States
ok once again

drug-test ?????

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5 years 46 weeks ago, 2:49 PM

coldfront

coldfront's picture

Rank:
Lieutenant General
Points:
1281
Join Date:
Nov 2008
Location:
virgina
reaper

it depends on the person i guess and how its said. in ebears case, it's a re-joke from what what said by another member,, whatever. as far as the jackass the otherday, he's lucky he doesnt live near me. alright i'm going this time. catch ya later

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 46 weeks ago, 2:52 PM

Ebear

Ebear's picture

Rank:
Speaker of the House
Points:
8497
Join Date:
Jun 2008
Location:
elgin, il, United States
woooosh

that went way over his head reap.........lol

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5 years 46 weeks ago, 2:58 PM

Reaper308

Reaper308's picture


Rank:
Secretary of Defense
Points:
6226
Join Date:
Jun 2008
Location:
Airstrip One, Oceania
yup

another one bites the dust

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
5 years 46 weeks ago, 2:57 PM

Ebear

Ebear's picture

Rank:
Speaker of the House
Points:
8497
Join Date:
Jun 2008
Location:
elgin, il, United States
coldfront

if he lived near you, he could send us pics of you in your dress and apron.

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5 years 46 weeks ago, 2:42 PM

coldfront

coldfront's picture

Rank:
Lieutenant General
Points:
1281
Join Date:
Nov 2008
Location:
virgina
ebear

oh yeah!! dam i forgot, must be getting second hand off of it. well, gotta go. see ya later man

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 46 weeks ago, 2:43 PM

Ebear

Ebear's picture

Rank:
Speaker of the House
Points:
8497
Join Date:
Jun 2008
Location:
elgin, il, United States
BUH BYE

PUT THE DRESS BACK ON

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5 years 45 weeks ago, 11:03 AM

gladiator 1969

gladiator 1969's picture

Rank:
Corporal
Points:
8
Join Date:
Jan 2009

I thank you all . i bought both. I got the minis however

awg
5 years 45 weeks ago, 11:15 AM

coldfront

coldfront's picture

Rank:
Lieutenant General
Points:
1281
Join Date:
Nov 2008
Location:
virgina

gladiator, wise choice when you cant make up your mind

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky

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