Forums / Gun Discussion / .40 Caliber, Glass is Half Full or Glass is Half Empty?

4 years 20 weeks ago, 10:58 PM

dynadog44

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40 Caliber Bullet

The .40 caliber S&W round. Hot or not? Is this round the perfect blend of form and function? Is the .40 caliber round the the best of both worlds, or does it compromise to a fault? Many enthusiasts seem to agree that the .40 S&W round is more effective than the 9mm Luger and it allows for a higher carry capacity than the .45 ACP. Personally, I'm not a big fan. The round is inherently snappy for me. For many manufacturers, the 9mm platform and the .40 cal platform share many similar parts on the production line. Because so many manufacturers build .40 S&W guns with similar characteristics as their 9mm counterpart, I find that the I fire the 9mm versions consistently better than the .40 cals. In this comparison, the 9mm always gives me less recoil and more rounds.

"If this is the case for you DynaDog44, you must enjoy firing the .40 S&W over the .45 ACP." This is a rational assumption, but in my case it just ain't so. I've found that I consistently fire my .45 ACP hand guns far better than my .40 S&W hand guns. I believe it may be because the .45 guns have more mass and heavier spring tensions which work together to soften the felt recoil. I do lose a couple rounds to the .40, but I shoot the .45 guns really well and I like the chunky bullet.

The .40 Cal gets no love from me. What are your thoughts on the .40 S&W?

4 years 20 weeks ago, 6:58 AM

TXLUCKYGUY

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meh

It's a proven cartridge. Accuracy with the right load/platform combo is as good as any other popular service cartridge.

Snappy? Agreed, but I honestly find standard 230gr .45acp ball to be objectionable. If I have to put up with recoil I'll run my 10mm. I don't enjoy +p+ 9mm either.

You should try some other .40SW loads though.....I issue the 165gr Bonded Tactical to my folks here at work and it's a very soft shooter. The 165gr reman load from Ultramax is a good analog practice round with low perceived recoil. When I switched from 180gr Gold Dot to the 165gr Bonded Tactical several guys here noted the reduced 'snap' and reduced muzzle flash. The FBI also spec'd a slightly lower-velocity 165gr GDHP that's a softy. Both are marketed as 'police only' but are readily available on the Net.

Be aware that a vast majority of 165, 155, and 135gr .40cal loads do indeed have a good bit of 'snap' compared to the above.

We issue a .40cal sidearm here, and every officer has managed to master it, whether they switched from a .45, 10mm, 9mm, or .357SIG.

I think it's more of a platform issue than a cartridge issue.....I shoot a 19/17/23/22 Glock MUCH better than a comparable (228/229/226) SIG.

4 years 20 weeks ago, 2:14 PM

dynadog44

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Great Info!

Hey TX that is really interesting! I own one .40 S&W P229. I don't shoot it often, but I will definitely try out that round! It's great to meet you and thanks for weighing in with your knowledge.

4 years 20 weeks ago, 7:25 AM

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IN one of my trips

to the hospital i shared a room with a young wheelchair bound urban youth,his rather loud introduction to me was A statement that he had been shot 3 times with a .40 and what did i think about that?
With my veins full of truth serum(moriphine) i told him that i thought the shooter was a pretty lousy shot.

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
4 years 20 weeks ago, 10:54 AM

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Not a fan

of the .40.......Too snappy! Give me a 9 or a .45!!

"Two flags fly above my land that really sum up how I feel. One is the colors that fly high and proud the red the white the blue.The other ones got a rattlesnake with a simple statement made, Don’t Tread On Me is what it says"
4 years 20 weeks ago, 11:01 AM

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to the 9mm, but I have never relied on one shot, and don't plan to start. I like the 9 because of rapid follow-up shots, cheap practice ammo, high capacity, and good loads in the civilian market. I'd go to 45 after that. 185 gr JHP feels pretty good out of a 1911, but I've never fired a .45 Glock or XD

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4 years 20 weeks ago, 1:23 PM

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I think the 185gr JHP feels great out of my XD 45, so do 185gr FMJ. Although I agree that the 230gr bullets have a little more perceived recoil punch, I don't think its unmanageable in any way.

I only own 45s, but I want to go down in caliber for my wife when she is ready to start shooting autos, and I think I will be going with 9mm.

"...one is allowed to resist against the unjust aggressor to one's life [...] even 'til the aggressor’s death. In fact, this act is aimed at preserving one’s life and to make the aggressor powerless. Thus, it is a good act" - Thomas Aquinas
4 years 20 weeks ago, 2:20 PM

dynadog44

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9mm

I think that is a wise decision for her first auto. My feeling is that the 9mm is great to learn on and it is an effective self defense round. Again that's my opinion. Have the two of you given any thought to which gun you will select? (That would make a great topic to post. I'd be interested in seeing everyone's responses.)

4 years 20 weeks ago, 5:12 PM

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Not yet, she is just learning on a friends .22 revolver but time for both of us to get out to shoot is scarce these days. Hopefully this summer when she is on summer break from teaching we can get her out to the range to start practicing with a 9mm. I want her to go to the indoor range here a few times first and shoot a couple of the 9mm first to see what she likes best.

"...one is allowed to resist against the unjust aggressor to one's life [...] even 'til the aggressor’s death. In fact, this act is aimed at preserving one’s life and to make the aggressor powerless. Thus, it is a good act" - Thomas Aquinas
4 years 20 weeks ago, 12:37 AM

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9mm or 40

i would at least let first time users begin with a 9mm. get some light loads also, i had an old s&w 436 (?) it had a pretty good jolt to it. i suppose all of this question depends on the type of ammo and the gun. my 12 year old has a ruger p95 and she gets along good with it. not like she carries it but when she shoots that is what she uses. my point being that gun seems to not have as much kick, maybe you could rent one just to see if she likes the 9mm. i like my .40 some people have said they don't like the s&w sw40ve's trigger, but i do. it is easier to carry than a full size .45 and has more capacity. that's the only reason i switched from .45. just want to say how much i like this web site cause you can get point of views from all walks of life here and everyone seems to respect different opinions.

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4 years 20 weeks ago, 9:52 PM

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I like the stopping power of the round but prefer my 9 over my brothers .40 any day. We both bought glocks at the same time, him a 40 and me the 9.

4 years 20 weeks ago, 10:29 PM

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Just curious. You must have a reason.

I don't know the stats but I know in a lot
of shootings drugs are involved. If some
one is on drugs and you have to shoot
them you better make your shots count.

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
4 years 20 weeks ago, 10:34 PM

PirateTattooist

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Yeh, true

I saw this police video, the cop pulled over a crack head, and shot him 4 times..he kept attacking the cop.

My JHP .45 would have stopped him in one...hell maybe a graze.lol

4 years 20 weeks ago, 9:50 AM

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I think a JHP .45 would have only stopped that guy if the shot was in the "kill zone" and even then it may not have stopped him on the first hit.

Even though I far prefer the .45, the true different between a 9mm and a .45 are not that great, especially when you are dealing with people on drugs. It's more important to make sure shots hit center mass and vital organs.

"...one is allowed to resist against the unjust aggressor to one's life [...] even 'til the aggressor’s death. In fact, this act is aimed at preserving one’s life and to make the aggressor powerless. Thus, it is a good act" - Thomas Aquinas
4 years 20 weeks ago, 10:11 AM

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.40 S&W

it works and is a proven stopping round. After quite a bit of range time, you'll learn to tame the "snappy" recoil and be able to make decent follow up shots. I agree w TXLUCKYGUY about finding the right loads. My experiences with the platform are the opposite of his. I shoot my P229 slightly better than my G23.

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
4 years 20 weeks ago, 9:12 PM

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.40

i like the caliber, but...with a heavy gun...When i had an XD .40 IT WAS ALLOVER THE PLACE...TOO LIGHT FOR MY TASTE....BUT THEN I SOLD IT AND GOT MY SIG.229.40 AND THE DIFFERANCE WAS NIGHT AND DAY.But that being said My Taurus 24/7 .45 shoots as smooth as a baby's bottum

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4 years 19 weeks ago, 2:56 PM

TXLUCKYGUY

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pistols

There is an FBI report, released within the last few years, that has several significant anecdotes where people sustained multiple gunshot wounds and related their impressions. I have a copy at work but haven't been able to find it.

Several people, regardless of whether they were shot with a 9/40/45, reported the initial pain/trauma/etc as being minimal (one gent said the .45s felt like 'bee stings'). Several other reliable sources report the same thing: the difference is usually in how commiitted the person is, regardless of onboard drugs.

Adrenalin dump, in my experience, can be just as significant as excited delirium, mental illness, or the street drug of choice in the short-term. Read Roy Benitez or Charlie Beckwith and see whether the wounds they sustained (from rifles mind you) slowed THEM down any (it didn't).

No pistol service caliber is so significantly better than the other as to be prominent. The .45 obviously is capable of greater expansion, assuming it expands, than smaller calibers. If your choices are between modern US police service cartridges (9/40/45/357), then I'd worry about your mindset and training firstly, skip caliber concerns, and make sure your chosen ammo runs 100% and is of a design and performance parameter that meets your requirements.

If the gun on my hip somehow magically switched brands/calibers (again, between proven platforms, cartridges, and loads), I doubt I'd noticed until I drew it or cleaned it. If I pulled the trigger in extremis, it probably would not be noticed by persons on either end of the gun.

The largest difference I've seen between the above-listed choices is price and availability (as run mentioned).

Reaper, several larger neighboring agencies have had the same preference/experience as yours. They prefer their 226s over previous/anlagous platforms.

4 years 19 weeks ago, 3:14 PM

CharlesW

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I saw a TV show last night
"How it's made" A company
was manufacturing the Colt.

How did I miss this before

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4 years 19 weeks ago, 3:27 PM

CharlesW

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I know several companys make copies
but this show gave the impression it
is a real Colt

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4 years 19 weeks ago, 4:35 PM

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Colt

175th anniversary limited production runs http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/tabid/61/CatID/4/Default.aspx

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4 years 19 weeks ago, 3:34 PM

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i thought it was pretty cool for the beretta's m9 pistols, the whole process to create perfection... from blocks of steel is amazing in my eyes, very fascinating to see the art of a pistol being made.

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4 years 19 weeks ago, 3:44 PM

CharlesW

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I've never made a pistol but I was a machinist
nearly 30 years.
I've built molds for plastic parts and also
machine parts.
I really enjoyed that line of work but I've
always been creative with my hands.

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
4 years 19 weeks ago, 5:10 PM

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i agree with lucky guy

the cal. will probably not be any noticable difference. it's in your mindset. i like my .40 over my 9mm. had a .45 traded for the .40 cause i like it better. it feels good in my hand and i am confident in the gun and ammo. i am not as comfortable with the 9mm so i think the .40 is a better one. we took a mobile home tongue i-beam and shot all 3 cal. at it. you would be surprised at how little difference there was. you could tell slightly between 9mm and .45 but that is about it. as everyone has said repeatedly on here, it's all in what you are comfortable with and the correct ammo.

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4 years 19 weeks ago, 6:40 PM

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.40 cal

Let me say first i choose the .40 cal for my carry. I like the load because its faster than the .45 (personal preference) and bigger than the 9 mm.
I know there is all sorts of arguements over the fast vs. slow loads. The main point is this, shoot what your comfortable with and practice practice practice. All are very capable calibers with todays manufacturing abilities.

4 years 17 weeks ago, 1:38 AM

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40 or 9

Maybe im missing the point here but i prefer a .38 special. To be more exact a nice revolver with four .38's and a .357 in it. Best of both worlds.

4 years 17 weeks ago, 1:44 AM

CharlesW

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There are very few of us wheel gun fans left.
I'm a big fan of 357 and if you want to light
load drop to 38spl.
But that's me

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4 years 17 weeks ago, 2:01 AM

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Wheel gun

There is alot of fancy sounding autos out there and alot to decide from but when i had about $1000 to spend instead of going for something that holds 17 bullets or a micro 1911 i ended up going with a smith and wesson Airlite and have not regretted it for a moment.

4 years 17 weeks ago, 2:04 AM

CharlesW

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Never regret a S & W

But the auto guys will argue about their Glocks

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4 years 17 weeks ago, 2:07 AM

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12 oz is hard to beat

especially when you can shoot it in your house with a .38 and not worry about going through a wall and hitting someone, but can be confident you can put a hot .357 in it and drop a bear with less then 3 bullets out of a 1 7/8 in barrel.

4 years 11 weeks ago, 6:49 AM

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Dodger, you shoot a bear, with your 357? What did you use for a load? thanks

4 years 17 weeks ago, 2:10 AM

CharlesW

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Some 38spl loads will do it but not as bad as larger guns
or rifles

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4 years 17 weeks ago, 2:11 AM

CharlesW

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?

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4 years 17 weeks ago, 2:12 AM

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agreed

i have the judge for the ole lady to use because she is not a great shot. I have some glasers for when the .357s around the house.

4 years 17 weeks ago, 2:14 AM

CharlesW

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for the judge ?

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4 years 17 weeks ago, 2:13 AM

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stopping power but i have yet to put them to the test.

4 years 17 weeks ago, 2:16 AM

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.410

The federal one? They are great compared to using a regular 000 buck. the extra shot and the tighter spread make a world of difference. Only $13 dollars a box too.

4 years 17 weeks ago, 2:17 AM

CharlesW

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I guess it's Federal

I just noticed it said pistol ammo

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4 years 17 weeks ago, 2:22 AM

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.410

I believe it is federal, they came out with a buck shot designed specially for use with the Judge. It had one extra pellet and the wad was suppose to keep a tighter spread. They also sell it in boxes of 20 or 25 don't know off top of my head. It worked pretty good and is way cheaper then buying boxes of 5 .410 buckshot. Almost sold the judge before they came out with that ammo.

4 years 17 weeks ago, 2:26 AM

CharlesW

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I just searched it

Winchester has a 3 in with 5- 000buck

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4 years 17 weeks ago, 2:28 AM

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I bought my judge before they made it in 3 in.

4 years 17 weeks ago, 2:29 AM

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thats the ammo i use

4 years 17 weeks ago, 3:25 AM

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judge

Dodger24 wrote:
thats the ammo i use

no .410 ammo,even the Federal round made for the Judge passes the FBIs minimum penetration test of 12 inchs,for what its worth.

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
4 years 17 weeks ago, 3:32 AM

Dodger24

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FBI

I dont plan on shooting through car doors with it. The .45lc the judge can shoot is for the penetration side of things. I like guns with a mixed cylinder when i can.

4 years 17 weeks ago, 2:31 AM

CharlesW

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1200 fps not to shabby

for close range

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4 years 17 weeks ago, 2:35 AM

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Spread

Its the spread that sold me on it though. At 50 ft one was dead center another about 2 in off and other 2 still on the paper. With the regular 3 shot winchester i was lucky to have one on the paper.

4 years 17 weeks ago, 2:37 AM

CharlesW

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awkward to carry ?

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4 years 17 weeks ago, 2:37 AM

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about winchester

I had heard they were selling out or going under a while ago and prices seemed to spike now they just picking up business like normal? Maybe i had facts mixed up, and i know i a bit behind the curve here but whats the deal?

4 years 17 weeks ago, 2:39 AM

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Oh yeah

Its heavy as a brick to. But its a hand gun the old lady can shoot and i want to try my hand at a grouse with it but the spread was horrible. Now i might try to hit one with some buck shot.

4 years 17 weeks ago, 2:42 AM

CharlesW

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If you hit one

Will there be enough left to cook ?

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4 years 17 weeks ago, 2:40 AM

CharlesW

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Don't keep up with Winchester much
Should be able to google it

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4 years 17 weeks ago, 2:43 AM

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all i can really find

The group recently said it had offered $24 million; the final sale price has not been disclosed. The new owners will continue making Winchester firearms under license by Olin.

4 years 17 weeks ago, 2:45 AM

CharlesW

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24 mil ?

I wouldn't think that would buy the machinery

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4 years 17 weeks ago, 2:50 AM

CharlesW

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well have got to go

T C and come back to see us
when you can lol

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4 years 17 weeks ago, 2:50 AM

Dodger24

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Yeah the name only

should be worth way more. I found a little more on it, seems to have happened a couple years ago and people were trying to buy out rights to some guns. I was trying to replace a model 94 when it all happened and they went from 300 to $600 over night it seemed like but now i seeing them back down to 350 but a new one cost 1500. I just dont know if they are actual winchesters anymore.

4 years 17 weeks ago, 2:52 AM

CharlesW

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So I have a Marlin, I'm a shooter
not collector

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4 years 17 weeks ago, 9:22 AM

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So American.... sad

Corporate links

The Winchester trademark is licensed to Brow-ning by Olin Corporation (USA). Winchester is distributed by Browning International, belonging to the Groupe Herstal, known throughout the world for the quality and performance of its products. Browning designs, manufactures and commercializes complete ranges of arms and accessories for hunting and sports shooting..

though from what I understand everything Winchester is stamped "Made in Japan" and comes from

NISSAN MIROKU Ltd.
537-1 Shinohara Nangoku
CITY KOCHI PREF

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
4 years 17 weeks ago, 9:32 AM

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capitalism

A double edged weapon, as consumers we want the highest quality product for the least amount of currency. It is consumers that drive the sales and purchases of businesses.

We as Americans are vulnerable in the act of choice. We have lived in a society of choice for so long that we often forget the difference between want and need.

Through this short sighted flaw, we have allowed foreign investors into our finances. When it comes to money and personal finances, most citizens are not "E Pluribus Unum"...

clint

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin & Hobbes)
4 years 17 weeks ago, 4:05 PM

CWYale

CWYale's picture

Rank:
Major
Points:
53
Join Date:
Jan 2011
Location:
Barnardsville, North Carolina, United States
.40 S&W

I had a Taurus PT99, a clone of the 92FS. I really liked that pistol, and I never had a problem with the 40.
Of course, this was a large, fairly heavy steel pistol.

"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property...Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding citizen deprived of the use of them."
4 years 17 weeks ago, 6:40 PM

tallguy007

tallguy007's picture

Rank:
Lieutenant General
Points:
2084
Join Date:
Aug 2010
Location:
yavin, outer rim, American Samoa
40

Had it in a H & K usp loved it ad it work better then my glock 9mm but had to sell it for bills :>( will get a nother :>)

DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR
4 years 11 weeks ago, 7:35 AM

runawaygun762

runawaygun762's picture

Rank:
Vice President
Points:
8929
Join Date:
Nov 2008
Location:
Richland, MO, United States

Now that's a great idea. Get people to spend money for something utterly worthless.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.

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