Forums / Gun Discussion / 5.56

4 years 40 weeks ago, 5:23 PM

gunfanatic

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5.56

the m193 and the m855 which rifle twists are optimized for each and what adverse effects of firing a m193 out a rifle made for the m855 and vice cersa

4 years 40 weeks ago, 5:38 PM

catfish88

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gunfanatic, I'm no expert, but a 1:7 twist rate is good for heavier loads and 1:9 is good for lighter loads. I beleive the M193 is 55 grain and the M855 is 62 grain. However, you can shoot both of those fine in a 1:9 twist rate, it's just not optimum for 62 grain. I've heard of guys shooting lighter loads in a 1:7, causing the bullet to overspin and having the jacket seperate from the core. I've never seen it myself. Somebody with more knowledge than me will come along and give you some better info.

4 years 40 weeks ago, 6:28 AM

runawaygun762

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Rifle twists

There are no adverse effects to speak of. We still have both in the inventory in the army, and I've carried both on deployment. The M4, 1:9 twist, works fine for both. 1:12 twist, like my wife's Remington varmint bolt gun, should not have 62 grain and above fired through it, as accuracy will suck.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
4 years 37 weeks ago, 1:50 PM

jay sedler

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runaway,

on a similar subject,have you fired much 223 rem through a 5.56 nato chamber?if so,how is the acuracy?im building an ar presently,never fired one before and so i havnt experemented.I havnt got a barrel yet.thinking of geting one from dez arms,mach grade turned on center buton rifled 1;9 med wt Hbar in 5.56.any advice?wondering how well the 223 does in a 5.56 should i just stick to 5.56 amo?

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
4 years 36 weeks ago, 11:48 AM

Mannyt

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you will notice only a SLIGHT difference. 223 Remingtons fire at a slightly lower pressure resulting in a slightly lower velocity. Accuracy will only depend on what barrel and load you use. After you build your rifle just experiment with different loads. 223 fired from a 5.56 barrel is completely safe but don't fire a 5.56 through a 223 barrel because of the pressure difference.
I hope that helps.

Exercising my rights.
4 years 37 weeks ago, 8:11 AM

TXLUCKYGUY

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.223/5.56

I currently use/issue a variety of practice and duty ammo (it's often tough to find a large consistently ready supply of any single .223/5.56 round).

We use predominantly 55gr FMJ from Winchester or Federal for practice, and heavier bullet weights from mostly 62, 64 or 75gr) or duty.

I've seen no appreciable difference in accuracy or weapon function. The 75gr Hornady 5.56x45mm TAP T2 is the most accurate of the bunch. A majority of the training is conducted between 7-50yds, with some done at 75 or 100yds. We run mostly Bushmaster 5.56 1/9 twist 16-inch barrels, and very few shooters can run any weapon up to or past it's accuracy potential, esp. from realistic shooting positions.

A majority of .223 ammo between 55 and 75gr will run just fine in a 1/9 5.56 barrel. Lighter dedicated varmint bullets and some heavier match bullets will do a little better with a different twist.

What are you wanting each bullet to do? Both are designed to operate from a specific barrel length/twist, and the optimal terminal performance of each is closely tied to a pretty narrow velocity window.

FYI, Colt military M4s and a majority of commercial and LE Colt M4-pattern rifles have a 1/7" twist.

PS runs your medbag posts were a great help to trying to justify Chitosan gauze and tournies to the admin. thanks

4 years 37 weeks ago, 2:16 PM

jay sedler

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txluckyguy.

thanks for the info im building the weapon for pleasure shooting mostly,but with defence in mind as well as some hunting maybe.i plan on shooting med wt bullets most of the time,i want to be able to acuratly shoot the widest asortment of amo as posible.mil amo for target shooting and softpoint or hollowpoint aprox 60gr for bobcat coyotes ect.my expected range is generaly going to be aprox 200 yds.any aditional pointers would be helpful.thanks guys!

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4 years 37 weeks ago, 9:29 AM

runawaygun762

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No problem, TX

I haven't used any chitosan equipment yet. I bought my own pack of quik-clot, but didn't have occassion to use it. I am interested in the newer types out there that don't get as hot as the older stuff.

As for firing 223 in a 5.56 chamber, I have never had any issues with it at all.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
4 years 37 weeks ago, 8:43 AM

TXLUCKYGUY

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heat

yeah runs I ditched my QuikClot powder just recently (ditch medicine is not something I keep up with as well as I should); our medics had reports of permanent injury due to crystals in veins, urethra, eyes, etc., along with 2nd and 3rd degree burns at the wound site. QC now sells gauze/bloodstoppers impregnated w/QC instead of the pour-in/pack-in powder.

Chitosan generates less heat than the 98 degrees that's normal for internal temp; the samples I got were thin shrinkwrapped wound covers with the agent in the gauze. Expensive crap though, $20-30 each usually (same for QC).

Jay, I'd give the Hornady TAP line a good look. They have 55 and 60gr polymer tip .223 that should be great for el coyote and OK for some defensive uses. Their 75gr JHP is a good one for 1/9 twists, even better from 1/7. The 40gr TAP is way too light for my taste and probably doesn't get the best results from typical modern AR twists.

4 years 37 weeks ago, 8:03 PM

jay sedler

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txluckyguy

thanks for the info...lots of people have lots of diferent opinions,and many of them dont even own or operate this type of weapon.sounds like you and runaway are longterm servicemen familiar with the gun so thanks for your input.

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
4 years 37 weeks ago, 6:56 AM

runawaygun762

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Best rounds for my M4

My Bushmaster loves about anything I feed it now. I had a few issues when I first got it, but they have disappeared. I use 55 gr Hornady V-max, Extreme Shok frangible, and Winchester Silvertip.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
4 years 37 weeks ago, 9:41 PM

jay sedler

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runaway

does your bushmaster have the same 1:9 twist that you talked about on your field rifle?what branch of the military are you in by the way?thanks for servig our country,and thanks for the help!

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
4 years 37 weeks ago, 9:52 PM

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You can click on his name or pic and get info brother. Dave is mostly sane, but with runs ya wana do this at your own risk...laughing he's our guy, but sorta sets a standard so the rest of us feel half normal...(no were not) He and the wife are stationed down in Sierra Vista AZ.. Runs is ARMY.. SSG done a number of tours in country, and works base security..He just got the word he's going to Getmo this summer, and your right he knows some shit about the M4..

Most of the stuff about bodies buried in the back yard is just kidding around..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
4 years 37 weeks ago, 7:10 AM

runawaygun762

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Most of it.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
4 years 35 weeks ago, 7:35 PM

Snoopythebiker

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I had long lived under a miss conception that .223 and 5.56 were the same round. some recent investigation has discovered that they are not. my question is this: Can I fire 5.56 in my mini 14 stainless ranch rifle? any one want to give my their take on this?

All I need is some ammo, some water, some chips if you've got'em...
4 years 35 weeks ago, 9:06 PM

jay sedler

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ruger rifle...

i believe you can,ive heard that ruger chambers that weapon to use both,however it is easy and safe to call ruger and get that info from the manufacturer.the only stupid question is the one you dont ask.

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4 years 35 weeks ago, 9:53 PM

CharlesW

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Jay

I have said that about questions for years

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
4 years 34 weeks ago, 6:43 PM

Snoopythebiker

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Thanks Jay, your answer was simple but yet very wise. I called Rugar today and they said not a problem with my ranch rifle. They did say that if I had the target model that I should only fire .223 but the ranch rifle will use both .223 and 5.56 with no problem. They also advised to stay away from imported ammo. I was told if I am going to use 5.56 to only use U.S. made ammo. I didn't ask why but I would assume it has something to do with consistency in the manufacturing process. I have a friend who has the same rifle and he is going to call Rugar to see if he gets the same answer.
Have any of you AR guys had any problems with the import stuff? I have a friend who has a ton of it but I don't know if he has shot any of it up yet. I would assume he has.

All I need is some ammo, some water, some chips if you've got'em...
4 years 34 weeks ago, 7:51 PM

Snoopythebiker

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Yes I can

Jay,
I sent Ruger an email and here is what they said.
"Response:
Ruger Mini-14’s have 5.56mm chambers and are designed to use either 5.56 or .223 factory ammunition loaded to United States industry specifications except in the Target model (not what I have). Also may be called 5.56 x .45." They also ran my serial number and told me that I have a KMINI-14/5R made in 1997. If anyone speaks Ruger I think it means K= stainless, mini-14= model, /5= 5 round mag, and R= Ranch. That was easier than trying to figure out tire size or harley designations. Looks like I am good to go. My plan is to use mostly .223 remington and save the 5.56 for an "Oh Sh--t" situation.

All I need is some ammo, some water, some chips if you've got'em...
4 years 34 weeks ago, 12:42 PM

jay sedler

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awesome

i had heard that they would use either round,but as i said before its never a bad idea to ask.im glad that worked out for you.

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
4 years 34 weeks ago, 7:50 PM

Snoopythebiker

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I had one friend tell me that the only difference in the two rounds is that .223 is the civilian designation and 5.56 is the military/nato designation. besides the size of the round, is there a difference in the two?

All I need is some ammo, some water, some chips if you've got'em...
4 years 34 weeks ago, 9:38 AM

Reaper308

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snoopy

5.56 is loaded to higher pressure than .223. If you have a chamber that is rated for 5.56, you can shoot either caliber. If you have a chamber thats rated for .223, I wouldn't advise shooting 5.56 out of it. I believe there is also very small head space differences, but not enough to matter.

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
4 years 34 weeks ago, 10:41 AM

jay sedler

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haha,yep id rather hear a "stupid question" than hear well ididnt know later when things go wrong.

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
4 years 34 weeks ago, 7:56 PM

Vaquero

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Snoopy

I dont have a mini 14.
I do have a single shot break open .223
I bought some military rounds.
I literally had to hold the latch down and break the action open across my thigh after firing nato.
As runs stated, the physical dimensions are the same, the pressures are higher in nato rounds.
Please check with Ruger first.

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4 years 34 weeks ago, 7:56 PM

Carterscountry

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Ive shot one 5.56

Ive shot one 5.56

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