Forums / Gun Discussion / AG to ban guns at will

5 years 46 weeks ago, 6:12 PM

coldfront

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AG to ban guns at will

A perfect storm is developing for Second Amendment opponents that could allow President-elect Barack Obama's choice for attorney general – Eric Holder – to "ban guns at will" despite the 2008 affirmation from the U.S. Supreme Court that U.S. citizens have a right to bear arms.

The situation was described with alarm by Alan Korwin, author of Gun Laws of America, in a recent commentary.

He cited Holder's known support for gun bans – the former Clinton administration official endorsed the District of Columbia's complete ban on functional guns in residents' homes before it was overturned by the Supreme Court.

And Korwin pointed to overwhelming Democratic majorities in Congress as well as Obama's known support for gun restrictions and his presence in the Oval Office.

(Story continues below)

Thirdly, Korwin, one of many Second Amendment advocates raising concerns, cited a proposal already submitted to Congress at a time when its backers could not reasonably expect it to succeed.

The submission is H.R. 1022 by New York Democrat Carolyn McCarthy and 67 co-sponsors. It was introduced in February 2007 and the next month referred to the House Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security, where it has stayed.

But that could change in the 111th Congress, sworn in today. And Korwin said the plan would allow the U.S. Attorney General – possibly Holder – to add to the list of guns banned to the public any "semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General."

"Note that … Holder … wrote a brief in the (District of Columbia) Heller case supporting the position that you have no right to have a working firearm in your own home," Korwin said.

In making this determination, the bill says, "there shall be a rebuttable presumption that a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event."

"In plain English," Korwin said, "This means that any firearm ever obtained by federal officers or the military is not suitable for the public. That presumption can be challenged only by suing the federal government over each firearm it decides to ban, in a court it runs with a judge it pays. This virtually dismisses the principles of the Second Amendment.

"The last part is particularly clever, stating that a firearm doesn't have a sporting purpose just because it can be used for sporting purpose – is that devious or what? And of course, 'sporting purpose' is a rights infringement with no constitutional or historical support whatsoever, invented by domestic enemies of the right to keep and bear arms to further their cause of disarming the innocent," he said.

Korwin told WND a new proposal to replace H.R. 1022 is not expected to be less draconian.

"Remember – these bans were proposed when the congressional anti-rights crowd had no chance of success. Now they are ready to run wild, or according to Sarah (Brady) herself, 'I have never been so confident,'" Korwin wrote, referring to the champion of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993, which requires background checks on purchasers of handguns.

Korwin said the Democrats listed in H.R. 1022 a framework for guns to be banned that includes originals, copies or duplicates of a wide-ranging list of shotguns, pistols and rifles.

One of the red flags for semiautomatic rifles would be "anything" that can serve as a grip, and as set up now, the Democrat members of the Judiciary Committee "are all sworn enemies to the Second Amendment and are unlikely to be swayed at all by any firearms related arguments," he said.

The Republicans all "need to be pressed hard to do everything they can to block the appointment."

Further, with the expectation that Obama will appoint at least one or two Supreme Court justices, further damage could be just a vote or two away, he said.

"If he can get a 5-4 or 6-3 majority who dislike gun rights, you could find that your [Second Amendment] rights aren't what they've been for 200 years," Korwin said.

John Snyder assembled a list of prominent critics of the Holder nomination.for the Firearms Coalition.

"A former Ohio secretary of state, (Ken) Blackwell notes that, 'despite Obama's new lip service to the Second Amendment, Holder signed onto a brief earlier this year (2008) reaffirming his long-held position that the Second Amendment confers no rights whatsoever to private citizens, and that the Supreme Court should have upheld D.C.'s absolute ban on handguns, even in homes."

Snyder also cited comments from Brian Darling, director of U.S. Senate Relations at the Heritage Foundation, that Holder's position "strongly suggests that Holder is hostile to private gun ownership and will work to restrict gun rights."

Shotgun News columnist Jeff Knox wrote, "The gun rights community should make every effort to see to it that Holder's nomination is withdrawn or rejected."

According to Second Amendment Foundation founder Alan Gottlieb, Holder has supported handgun licensing and mandatory trigger locks. He also lobbied for limits on gun shows.

"This is not the record of a man who will come to office as the nation's top law enforcement officer with the rights and concerns of gun owners in mind," Gottlieb wrote.

"America's 85 million gun owners have ample reason to be pessimistic about how their civil rights will fare under the Obama administration," Gottlieb said. "Mr. Obama will have a Congress with an anti-gun Democrat majority leadership to push his gun control agenda. Gun owners have not forgotten Mr. Obama's acknowledged opposition to concealed carry rights, nor his support for a ban on handgun ownership when he was running for the Illinois state senate."

The issue of gun rights is more important than many believe, wrote Joseph Farah, WND's founder and editor, in a recent column. He cited a study from the University of Maryland and University of Michigan that uncovered a beneficial link between gun shows and crime.

"We find a sharp decline in the number of gun homicides in the weeks immediately following a gun show," the study concluded. Furthermore, in Texas they found "gun shows reduce the number of gun homicides by 16 in the average year."

"Holder’s appointment to be AG must be approved by the Senate," wrote David Codrea in the Examiner. "While it is highly unlikely that opponents could muster the 51 votes needed to reject Holder's appointment, a single senator can place a 'hold' on the confirmation and effectively lock up the system just as Democrats did with a number of President Bush's judicial appointments and the appointment of John Bolton to be Ambassador to the U.N."

The Supreme Court decided in the D.C. vs. Heller case that the Second Amendment provides an individual right to own firearms, not just the right for states to form armed militias.

The Constitution does not permit "the absolute prohibition of handguns held and used for self-defense in the home," Justice Antonin Scalia said in the majority opinion.

Justice John Paul Stevens, writing in dissent, said the majority "would have us believe that over 200 years ago, the Framers made a choice to limit the tools available to elected officials wishing to regulate civilian uses of weapons."

Scalia said the ruling should not "cast doubt on long-standing prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons or the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings."

Scalia was joined by Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Samuel Alito, Anthony Kennedy and Clarence Thomas. Joining Stevens in dissent were Justices Stephen Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and David Souter.

The amendment, ratified in 1791, says: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 46 weeks ago, 6:14 PM

coldfront

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obama thinks 2nd amendment does not apply to private citizens???? he is fucking crazy

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 46 weeks ago, 6:32 PM

coldfront

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this cannot happen

this cannot happen

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 46 weeks ago, 7:00 PM

runawaygun762

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The supreme court, when deciding on whether the NFA '34 was constitutional, determined the Stevens shotgun in question to be in violation because the justices were not aware of the use of short barreled shotguns by the military. The decision on that case, although wrong as it upheld the NFA 34, was reached because the gun in question wasn't a weapon such as was used in the military. The SCOTUS, by that decision, upheld the constitutional right specifically to maintain arms as were used by the military. This means military-style weapons are the only constitutionally protected firearms in this country. And considering the US Army Marksmanship Unit uses every type of weapon from skeet and trap guns to rimfire target pistols, to sniper rifles and machine guns, all weapons are constitutionally protected. Why hasn't the NRA jumped on this and taken it to court already?

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 46 weeks ago, 8:00 PM

dave329

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CAN YOU SAY NRA

More purpose to join the NRA as soon as possible, Looks like were going to need them bad!!!

5 years 46 weeks ago, 8:01 PM

coldfront

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watch the obama video in the other forum, youll get a kick out of that one too

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 46 weeks ago, 8:28 PM

jack010203

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i doubt they will try and push this through, its too much at once, they will just keep chipping away at the second amendment and probly try the AWB again

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." -Thomas Jefferson
5 years 46 weeks ago, 3:20 AM

Pkato

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Perhaps all the hoopla

surrounding what Obama will do to the Second Amendment is just hype...maybe the gun sellers have pushed this idea to raise gun prices and drive hysteria...oh, wait, maybe it worked! Ha

Patrolman Kato
Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself.
They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone
under independence. -- George Washington
5 years 46 weeks ago, 5:58 AM

coldfront

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you know, that could be believable because it is happening now with prices in the last couple of months, but there is just too much talk about this throughout the obama clan

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 45 weeks ago, 8:13 PM

byerley06

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Confused

McCain and Obama both agreed in the debates that their main focus was on stricter handgun laws, not semi automatic rifles. It was said by Obama, of course a few lies to get elected are expected, that if semiauto rifles are banned where do you call it quits, he said he wouldnt ban semiautos. But again we are talking about a politicial....right?
Sometimes I wonder if one little rumor turns into an avalanche.

5 years 45 weeks ago, 8:26 PM

tdh

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equally confused

they'll say anything to get elected, but i did hear just the other day that gun control was not on Obama's immediate agenda.

5 years 45 weeks ago, 8:30 PM

byerley06

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Nope

I think its the 3 trillion more dollars he wants us to go into debt......Didnt stimulate the economy when bush tried it so what makes abamo think his will be any different

5 years 45 weeks ago, 5:58 AM

runawaygun762

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He doesn't have to write any legislation. There are senators and representatives who will do that on their own. All he has to do is sign it into law. just because it's not on his immediate agenda doesn't mean we have any time.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 45 weeks ago, 6:04 AM

runawaygun762

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Byerley06

Go on Obama's website. It says specifically that creating a permanent AWB is one of his steps to reducing gun violence. That is not a rumor, that is on his website. I sent a comment on the suggestion area saying I would be willing to meet with someone from his crew to discuss how making it illegal for me to own the same type of rifle I have carried for the past 13 years in the service of my nation would lower gun violence, but I have yet to get a reply.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 45 weeks ago, 6:17 AM

Shake N Bake

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Don't be misled Obama and the incoming crew will at some point attack our gun rights, will they succeed, a lot will depend if there are still enough of us that will stand up and speck out to prevent it

Some families have long histories of tending to the tree of liberty, others have a long history of living in its shade.
5 years 45 weeks ago, 9:04 AM

byerley06

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Runawaygun762

Your right! I was misled by bad information....
I think "US" as true law obeying citizens need to ban together and have a voice that will be heard. We need to our opinion heard.
***For the extremist...I mean legally! I don't mean with violence. America has moved away from "For the People"
Banning guns only means that gang bangers, crooks and vigilanties will keep their illegal weapons. I mean they already have them now, a ban won't stop violence. It will only keep honest Americans from owning them,

5 years 45 weeks ago, 11:27 AM

dirtyd046

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they were told thats what they were getting when we elected obama good job assholes

5 years 45 weeks ago, 5:29 PM

hillbilly77

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I think someone should send Obama a copy of John Ross's Unitended Consequences. Then maybe they may think a little more about signing new gun laws.

“If ever time should come,when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of it's experienced Patriots to prevent it's ruin."Samuel Adams
5 years 45 weeks ago, 11:25 AM

dirtyd046

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i know its jacked up all i can say is come and get em if you want em that bad but i am not going with out a fight and i seen what these cops have i got better bigger louder and longer try me...

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