Forums / Gun Discussion / AR15 vs. Mini 14

3 years 4 weeks ago, 6:27 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

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AR15 vs. Mini 14

If you were to add a .223Rem to your arsenal and had to choose one of these rifles, which would you choose and why? Just for the record, I think I am leaning toward the Mini14. I have no valid reason other than the mini appeals to me more and I like the handling of it better. I will admit, the ARs I've fired have been low-end. But then there is always the cost factor then too.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 4 weeks ago, 6:36 PM

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Mini 14

I would go for the Mini-14 or maybe a Mini-30 however the mini-30 is .308 I think. So like ya said ya are lookin in the .223 area code. So the Mini-14 is a good choice cost wise. I like AR platforms as well and there are tons of aftermarket stuff for them. As for the Mini-14 its a great choice and has a little history in the design as it is related in a way to the M1 Garand and M1 Carbine and M14 weapons. I have held a few Mini-14 and I can say I would love to have one myself.

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3 years 4 weeks ago, 1:25 AM

luckybychoice

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mini-30

is 7.62x39 not .308

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
3 years 4 weeks ago, 7:36 PM

Ironmike15

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ar platform

The ar platform is far superior. It does cost more but imo it is worth it. The ar can be made into anything you need including different calibers. They are extremely accurate, very easy to shoot well, and are super ergonomic for nearly everyone. I am not really against the mini but it really does not stack up well against the ar unless they have dramatically improved in the last few years.

3 years 4 weeks ago, 7:48 PM

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Saint J.M.

The Mini14 is a great gun, but I would have to go with the AR platform. My main reasons for this are as follows.
1. If ever things turn way south then parts will be easier to get for the AR platform rifles.
2. In a possible fire fight they AR will have the same sound signature as the M16, or M4. This would come in handy just incase one squad hears the shoots, so they may dismiss it as a seperate squad shooting out with civilians.
3. The AR will shoot 5.56 ammo, where the Mini14 is a .223. The military will be using 5.56 so recyling their ammo will be pulling a magazine and slap it in the AR and your ready to go.
4. As Snake mentioned the accessories for the AR are every where. The sky is the limit with how you can modify them.
This is just my two cents worth though.

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3 years 4 weeks ago, 12:10 AM

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AR

While I love the mini-14, and have nothing bad to say about them, the AR platforms have a MUCH larger aftermarket, and I feel are just, if not more accurate and reliable.

__________________ "...He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one." - Jesus, Luke 22:36
3 years 4 weeks ago, 1:24 AM

luckybychoice

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I have a Mini-14

and like it just fine,there is quite a few aftermarket products to upgrade a Mini-14 such as stocks,optics,etc.they have chromemoly barrels,but there was an issue with some about the Mini-14 not being accurate due to barrel harmonics,the hotter the barrels got the more innacurate they became,the newer models have added a stabilizer which is an aftermarket add-on for earlier models too,that addresses that issue.The Mini-14 was never designed to be a "tack driver".

Magazines for the Mini-14 have been an issue for me,i have factory mags and aftermarket mags,i hate paying 40 dollars for a factory 30 round mag and really wish the Mini-14 was redesigned to accept AR mags,i have 40 round aftermarket mags that i bought for 28 bucks that work great,and 20 and 30 round AM mags that suck,i cannibalize them and make good mags out of a couple,its been a process.

overall i like the mini-14 just fine,i want an AR to,i have a lot of time behind an AR,i like the AR design and the options for an AR are down right mind boggling.The Mini-14 you can buy and pretty much just shoot,maybe add optics.

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
3 years 4 weeks ago, 6:17 AM

Saint J.M. Browning

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Thanks y'all

Those were really good points, and I think I may lean toward an AR now. It may cost more, but it sounds like dollar for dollar you get more out of an AR.
So, for myself, I think I will buy an AR first. Then I will get a Mini14 later. :)
So do you think it's worth looking in the higher end range? Maybe avoid the $800 ARs and look into one that is $1200 or so?

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3 years 4 weeks ago, 3:39 PM

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my opinion

I don't have any reason to ever own a Mini 14. I'll keep buying AR's

ST JM Browning: I consider $1200 mid range for 5.56 AR's. You can find plenty of AR's that will set you back $2K (a lot of the more expensive ones will be piston rifles). You can get AR's for under $1K like Bushmasters, M&P's, DPMS, RRA etc..that will do just fine. In the 1200 price range, check out BCM, DD, Noveske, Colt, etc... you'll have plenty of options. You can build something pretty nice for $1200.

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
3 years 1 week ago, 5:56 PM

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AR 15

Thinking of getting one next week at a gun show DPMS,SPIKE TACK= $749.00 - 799.00 HAS m4 STOCK but do not want to wast that muck $$$ if their are junk. Has any one heard of the SSAR15 bump fire stock that will make the AR go FULL AUTO ?

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3 years 1 week ago, 6:51 PM

jay sedler

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tallguy007

ya,it looks kinda gay to me honestly.seems like fun,but its ugly expensive dosnt work with winter trigger guards only comes in black and it just kinda flops around.hey,on the bright side its got a money back guarantee so if you get it and dont like it you can always send it back!maybe they will start making it in colors,and put some kind of lock on it so it dosnt always wiggle around.then maybe id buy one for the price they want...

Some might find this fun.... eh, kinda pointless to me, but.....

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
3 years 1 week ago, 6:55 PM

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rescind their ok on that Stock. They allowed one for the 10/22 a few years back and then sent a letter to everyone who bought one and told them to destroy it or turn it in....

I can not see the ATF allowing it to be on the market long, I'd give is at least a year before I'd possibly buy one.

Lot of money for them to get hokey with it and claim they are all illegal after you've spent the money.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 1 week ago, 7:00 PM

jay sedler

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i agree isd

these things follow the law,but the big brother will bprobably decide us little brothers shouldnt have that much fun and take it away.for our own safety of course

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
3 years 4 weeks ago, 8:27 PM

runawaygun762

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AR for the win

I've owned two Mini-14 Ranch Rifles and they were garbage. More specifically, the mags were garbage. Finding reliable aftermarket high-cap mags for those things is difficult and expensive. ARs have more accessories available and the controls are better. There are aftermarket parts available for the Mini-14, but not even close to the selection and price of accessories for ARs.

Another thing to think about is accuracy. ARs are capable of much better levels of accuracy than Mini-14s with very little gunsmith intervention.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
3 years 4 weeks ago, 11:26 PM

Ironmike15

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ar

one of the koolest things about the ar is its modularity. You can get a relatively inexspensive ar and biuld it to be what ever you want. I bought a m&p 15t. It really is an awesome rifle but its not for me. Too much tactical thingamagigs. I have. Decided that I am going to get a plain jane ar with a standard barrel and stock. I hate those ajustable stocks. Most people like em but not me. I also like the original hand guards too. I don't like the tac rails everywhere. I did learn however that I really like the flat top and the fold down front and rear sights. I am also going to get one in 243 for my deer rifle.

3 years 4 weeks ago, 2:52 AM

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AR's

AR's are great for a wide range of use, just as long as you don't get too carried away with them. I've got a buddy that insisted on overloading his AR and it weighs about 13 or 15 pounds. He's realizing he needs to remove some things and that he wasted his money on the accessories he's removing.

Fall back to the basics...
3 years 4 weeks ago, 3:44 AM

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AR

I figure a Eotech with a multiplier on a flat top, with flip up sights, a light with a swivel lock for the mount, a good sling and a bipod is about it for what I would use it for.

Hell, Billy has a Ruger SR556 and that is one heavy AR without adding anything... Fantastic shooter but still I wouldn't want to carry it all freaking day...

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 4 weeks ago, 8:12 AM

Saint J.M. Browning

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Y'all got me sold

on the AR. I think that will be my next long gun. Maybe one day if I have more money and time, I might get the Mini just for fun. The one thing I do think I like better with the Mini, that I don't think anyone has mentioned here, is the trigger.
It's been a long while since I fired a friend's Mini, but I remember the trigger breaking a little cleaner than the AR. The few (very few) ARs I've fired seemed to have a clunky trigger. Is that just because they were cheap, or is that normal with most ARs.

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3 years 4 weeks ago, 8:29 AM

CJT44

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AR Always

It's a great rifle and it's never let me down. I have a Bushmaster and it's a lot fun to fire at the range. It's durable, accurate, simple to maintain and it has the visual oh crap look about it.

3 years 4 weeks ago, 10:16 AM

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Saint JM Browning

a great thing about AR's is that there are tons of options for triggers. You can find traditional single stage combat triggers and two stage triggers in various flavors.... tons of choices.

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
3 years 4 weeks ago, 1:47 PM

Ironmike15

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go ARs

You guys are right on

3 years 4 weeks ago, 1:52 PM

Ironmike15

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jm

Don't worry. Once you get your AR you will seldom if ever think about the ranch..unless its ranch dressing.. I used to want one too. I got an AR. Never have considered it again.

3 years 4 weeks ago, 4:33 PM

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mini 14

This is very anecdotal, as I don't care for the 5.56 round...but I do own an AR-platform rifle in the form of an AR-10. It has been nothing but satisfactory, very accurate (sub-MOA) & reliable in my favorite rifle caliber of .308.

I have fired AR-15's in 5.56, with good results...both accuracy-wise and with regard to feeding reliability. I still don't own the rifle because of the insipid feeling I have toward a .22 caliber rifle not worthy of hunting deer but deemed capable of dropping men (please be gentle in your hate, I'm a new member).

At the range this weekend, a like-minded compatriot of mine had trouble with 4" grouping at 100 yards with his Mini-14. On a rifle vise. With a 9X scope. My AR-10 drives tacks under the same circumstances.

My AK-47 does better than that, with open sights. Get an AR-15 over a Mini-14, IMHO.

3 years 4 weeks ago, 5:53 PM

luckybychoice

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my score

Mini-14 vs deer = 12 for 12 ,none lost,none wounded.

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
3 years 4 weeks ago, 6:24 PM

Ishootdaily

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LBC, sent you a PM...

...

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 4 weeks ago, 6:40 PM

luckybychoice

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ISD

back at ya,funny i was just taking my G26 apart.

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
3 years 3 weeks ago, 9:37 AM

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mini-14 vs car-15.....

O.K. so I guess I'm confused. I thought that the .223 rem & 5.56mm were essentially the same round, likewise the 7.62 & .308, the difference being the system of notation (like English vs Metric) am I full of s**t? or is this right? Please help!

3 years 3 weeks ago, 10:10 AM

Saint J.M. Browning

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gomer

The 5.56 NATO and the .223 Rem have the same external dimensions. But the 5.56 has thicker case walls and can be (and is) loaded to higher pressures than the .223. The .223 is a commercial sporting version of the 5.56.
You can fire either in a rifle marked as 5.56, but you shouldn't fire the 5.56 in a rifle marked as .223.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 3 weeks ago, 11:26 PM

Ironmike15

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ninja

The 5.56 has worked quite well. That's why its still here. It has lasted longer than any other rifle cartridge in the US military. It is just being asked to do things that it was not intended to do. It was designed to be used against human targets up to 200 to 300 yards.. it can handle varmints much futher out. I love the round, Chuck hawks said that if you could get a deer to stand up on its hind legs right in front of you then many calibers would be considered adequate, but they don't do that, so......if I could hunt deer with a 223 I would. I can't so I use the 243.

3 years 3 weeks ago, 10:13 AM

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To: St. Browning...

O.K.!! That helps. I thought I was loosing my mind there for a second. I haven't been able to get into reloading, so sometimes these things bamboozle me!

3 years 3 weeks ago, 10:23 AM

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I'm thinking that with this information, it would be possible to load 5.56 NATO brass to .223 pressures and use in a .223. Am I correct in thinking this? If so is 5.56 brass available for reloading? I'm not a reloader yet, but have thought I would like to get into it if I can ever get the money together to get the equipment.

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3 years 3 weeks ago, 10:28 AM

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Im not sure you could use 5.56 in a .223 rifle for the reason thet the 5.56 Nato Brass is is thicker and I dont think it would feed properly.

As for 5.56 being avalible for reloading I couldnt say as I am not a reloader either. My guess is probably avalible but I wont swear to it.

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3 years 3 weeks ago, 10:30 AM

jay sedler

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5.56 nato/223 rem

gomer,i belive the 5.56 case can actualy be longer than 223 rem in adition to being loaded to higher pressures.when i first started my ar15 build this "bamboozled" me as you said.someone on this site around that time contacted ruger about shooting 5.56 nato in the mini 14 marked 223rem,and ruger told him it was safe in all but the varmint/target rifle,but before doing this in my gun,id call ruger myself,just to be safe,the only stupid question is the one you dont ask.thats my opinion.

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
3 years 3 weeks ago, 10:40 AM

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Randy Mc

Similar but not the same…

5.56mm v. 223 Remington
Deconfusing the issues of a couple of differences…
Summer 2007 Advisory: With the increased demands for ammunition… check ammo prices (and availability) lately?… by the U.S. Military and the multi-national "war on terrorism," the regular suppliers of small arms munitions have gone to maximum capacity (double and triple work shifts, etc.) and new resources have been brought on-line. In some instances, Quality Control and Quality Assuance (QC/QA) has suffered, and the issue of 5.56mm v. 223 Remington has taken on a greater significance.

Not to unduly alarm anyone, but as always, "ya pays your money and takes your chances."Almost a quarter of a century ago, SAAMI recognized potential problems with shooters assuming that the 5.56mm cartridge was identical to the commercially available .223 Remington round. Here is their 31 January 1979 release, with some minor errors corrected:

“With the appearance of full metal jacket military 5.56 ammunition on the commercial Market, it has come to the attention of the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI) that the use of military 5.56mm ammunition in sporting rifles chambered for Caliber .223 Remington cartridges can lead to higher-than-normal chamber pressures and possible hazards for the firearm, its user and bystanders.

Tests have confirmed that chamber pressures in a sporting rifle may be significantly higher in the same gun when using military 5.56mm ammunition rather than commercially loaded Caliber .223 Remington cartridges, according to SAAMI.

SAAMI points out that chambers for military rifles have a different throat configuration than chambers for sporting firearms which, together with the full metal jacket of the military projectile, may account for the higher pressures which result when military ammunition is fired in a sporting chamber.

SAAMI recommends that a firearm be fired only with the cartridge for which it is specifically chambered by the manufacturer.”
In Rifle Chambered For Do Not Use These Cartridges
223 Remington 5.56mm Military
222 Remington
30 Carbine
Additionally, SAAMI's Unsafe Arms and Ammunition Combinations Technical Data Sheet page states:

The .223 Remington is rated for a maximum of 50,000 CUP while the 5.56mm is rated for 60,000 CUP. That extra 10,000 CUP is likely sufficient to cause a failure in a chamber that's only rated for the "sporting" .223 Remington.

The .223 Remington and the 5.56mm NATO, when checked with a chamber ream from a reliable manufacturer of each, also have discernable differences in the areas of freebore diameter, freebore length (leade) and angle of the throat.

SAAMI
Technical Office:
P.O. Box 338
Branford
CT 06405-0338(Ironically, given the nature of the on-line confusion exhibited by .30 caliber shooters, no similar SAAMI advisory is given concerning 7.62 NATO beyond the fact that those who have rifles chambered in "308 Winchester" shouldn't attempt to shoot cartridges marked "7.62x39" or "300 Savage." Well, duh!)

However, the estimable Clint McKee of Fulton Armory, has thoughtfully provided a brief monograph, The difference between 5.56mm and .223 Remington chambers in the AR-15®-type rifle, which explains this issue in greater (but quite readable) detail.

Olin's Winchester Ammunition site, in 2001, addressed this matter as well, in a concise monograph by Paul Nowak, and Randall Rausch has a number of excellent technical documents, with graphics displaying the differences between the two cartridges, available at AR15barrels.com. Of particular interest are headspace and reamer dimensions.

Further Views on "Differences"
At the October 2001 IALEFI Conference in Reno, Nevada, Giles Stock, retired from Phoenix Police Department after 20 years service, discussed the differences between the .223 Remington/SAAMI and 5.56mm/NATO rifle chambers. The long-time range master for handgun, rifle, carbine and shotgun at Gunsite and developer of the acclaimed Giles Tactical Sling suggested that, as a general rule, recreational rifles have the former, and military rifles the latter… but there is some overlap, most notably in the popular Sturm Ruger Mini-14 which has been offered in both specifications!

“NATO chambers have a long leade1. SAAMI chambers are tighter and have a short leade. SAAMI chambers are designed for increased accuracy, but will yield dangerously high pressures in guns using military ammunition and/or which are subject to high volume shooting. Under such high pressures, a primer may back out completely, drop into the action and cause the firearm to stop working.”
It has been suggested that an autoloading rifle utilizing a SAAMI-spec chamber may increase risk of overpressure due to the tighter, shorter leade which retards the projectile somewhat as it is attempting to exit the case. Leave the SAMMI chambers to the a bolt action and single-shot rifles.

ArmaLite, not the original, but the Eagle Arms pretenders, has its own views on the subject.
Winchester "White Box" Confusion
This has been making American shooters nuts for a number of years now… particularly in the immediate aftermath of 11 September 2001 when there was a major run on 5.56mm ammunition. Winchester's "generic" or "budget" USA, or "white box," brand of ammunition actually has two different 55-grain FMJ rounds, and one has to look closely at the "small print" to discern the difference.

For openers, in addition to the ATK-operated Lake City plant2, Winchester is also a primary supplier of M193 to the U.S. military. That particular X223R1 round is commercially available in the white USA box product encoded "Q3131." What few realize is that Israeli Military Industries (IMI), the sole supplier of ammo to the Israeli Defense Force (IDF), also supplies their M193 as a subcontractor for Winchester; that round is often made available in the USA white boxes marked "Q3131A." By most reports, qualitatively, it is the same round and performs virtually the same as the home-grown variant.

1.- Leade is the distance the projectile of a chambered round must travel upon ignition before it enters the bore of a barrel. It is measured in thousandths of an inch, and is a datum of considerable interest to benchrest shooters.
2.- The government-owned, contractor-operated Lake City Army Ammunition Plant (LCAAP) in Independence, Missouri, is the largest (458 buildings on 3,935 acres) small-arms manufacturing plant in the world.

Founded in 1941, "Lake City" manufactures and proof-tests small arms (5.56mm - 20mm) munitions. It was initially operated by Remington Arms Company until 1985 when Olin Corporation bid and was awarded the contract to operate the facility. In 1999, Alliant TechSystems (ATK) in conjunction with Federal Cartridge Corporation won a ten-year contract to assume the operations. ATK subsequently acquired Federal Cartridge from Blount Sporting Goods Division.
by Dean Speir, formerly famous gunwriter.

3 years 3 weeks ago, 8:09 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

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Huh?

I'm sorry. You lost me after "Deconfusing"
lol j/k

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3 years 3 weeks ago, 11:03 AM

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Thanks guys,

In short, the answer to my question here is either No or at the very least, Not advisable! I think I read somewhere about the throats being different, and forgot about that. I would think that with the longer throat on the 5.56 cartridge, it is possible that the round would not chamber correctly, possibly causing the round to not seat correctly and the bolt to not lock into the proper position, thus setting up the potential for a catastrophic failure of the weapon. I will be the first to admit that I may well be wrong in this assumption, but it seems logical to me.

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3 years 3 weeks ago, 8:17 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

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Randy.

I wouldn't say that. Just make sure you are careful and start low and work up. You should be able to trim the 5.56 to .223 specs but, unless you have a device to measure pressure, I would keep the loads light. The 5.56 will chamber because the longer neck just goes into the area in the chamber where the bullet is still not engaging the lands and grooves. I forget what this is called, but there is a term for it. Now if you are reloading .223 for fire in the 5.56 chamber. You can use more powder (again, work up) and not seat the bullet as far.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 3 weeks ago, 6:41 PM

jay sedler

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here are some 223 and 5.56 cases follow this link...

http://www.gunslot.com/pictures/223556

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
3 years 3 weeks ago, 8:07 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

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I added some images for these. They vary very slightly. I think I read that some handloader would not seat the bullets as deep in his 5.56 loads so they wouldn't chamber in his .223 rifles, but I can't swear to this.
The case capacity is 28.8 grains of water for .223 and 28.5 grains for 5.56.

5.56 NATO Case Dimensions

.223 Remington Case Dimensions

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 3 weeks ago, 9:57 PM

jay sedler

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saint,does this ilustration show 5.56 case being longer than 223?i cant see the numbers if so thats a cool little diagram,i havent been able to find one showing the case lengths being diferent.i see so much confusion with these calibers especialy online sales,ive seen lake city 5.56 brass being sold as 223 rem/5.56 as if it is the same thing.DANGER WILL ROBINSON DANGER!!!lol.i saw a post on another gun forum where a guy had a sig 5.56?i think,and a 223 T/C,and he reloaded the 5.56 brass to 223 specs,said it worked fine in his 5.56,but when he loaded it in the contender it split the cases,and i think was bulging out primers.....whoops!ill try to find the pics.223/5.56 still isnt as hard to understand as the european vs american 7.62x39 though.why america changed the diameter to 308 on a cal that was being used as 310 i dont know.while im on the subject,i assume it is probably unsafe to fire 310 loaded amo such as wolf,or military surpluss amo out of a 308 bore like a ruger mini30,or ar platform,if anyone has real data on this id like to see it. oh ya saint,can you pm me that diagram,or tell me where to find it?

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
3 years 3 weeks ago, 11:53 AM

Saint J.M. Browning

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Jay

I grabbed those from Wikipedia there was one on each of the separate entries. They do show a slight difference between the two but only at the neck. But I can't read these things. They are in Metric for one and I am questioning the validity of them now. I've been looking at online reloading guides and some differ between them as to case dimensions. It seems also that, besides minute differences in cartridge dimensions, chamber dimensions vary slightly and this is also a consideration.

BTW, those images on my post are scaled down. If you click the images link at the top of the post, it should have the larger ones. If not, let me know and I will PM them to you. Can you include attachments on PMs?

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 3 weeks ago, 12:26 AM

Ishootdaily

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It isn't a given...

The max overall length for 5.56 is longer than the max overall length of 223... The same with 7.62 and 308, because of this, if you take a maxed out 5.56 load and stick it in a 223 chamber it will push the bullet further into the case changing th gas gap, upping the case pressure....

I'd reload 223 and not worry about it, you also do not have to swag the primer cup on civilian rounds. So it removes a step speeding up and simplifying the process...

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 3 weeks ago, 10:06 AM

Vaquero

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5.56/.223

5.56 cases work very well for handloading .223 rounds. Trimming cases is a step in the process that I never skip. The case walls are thicker on the mil brass, yet I find that the case neck thickness is within .223 spec's and if loaded to proper pressures they last through numerous firing and re-sizing operations without fatigue. Yes, the primer pockets have to be swaged, but just once. Just don't try to go back to 5.56 pressures or dimensions and all will be fine. PS, my .223 is more accurate at lower velocities and pressures anyway so my handloads are on the mild side.

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3 years 3 weeks ago, 12:08 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

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I think

ISD has now talked me into looking into the AR10. I think the .30 is more useful anyway.

Now let the .308Win vs. 7.62 NATO discussions begin. lol >:)

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3 years 3 weeks ago, 1:02 PM

Ishootdaily

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SJMB

It's the same situation as the 223 verse 5.56...

lol

go figure

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 2 weeks ago, 11:58 PM

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I have both ARs and a Mini 14s some things to think about with both guns.
The Mini got a bad rap in the early years because they were in accurate, But if you get one with 580 or 581 SR# they are getting into 1 ½ groups at 100 yards even after you have been shooting and Berle is hot. So if you are going to go shoot prairie dogs 400 yards away go with an AR. But if you are shooting at a Deer or Coyotes 200 yards both will do well. If you have been hunting/stalking your game for years with good old fashion gun you will like the Mini more AR is a bit to get used to, I think they suck to pack around. They both shoot 5.56 just fine
OK here is the BIG difference in thees two guns. If I was going into a gun fight I would take the Mini.. EVERY TIME.. I have had the ARs JAM 25 times for every 1 that I have had with the mini!!!! about the first time you have to jump down in the dirt and that AR gets a little sand in it, you just as well use it as a club. I have almost abused my mini and its still shoots (no oil dry)

3 years 2 weeks ago, 12:52 AM

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Barrel not Berle is hot

3 years 2 weeks ago, 9:16 AM

Ironmike15

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ar jam

My m&p 15t has never jammed. My colt never jamed either. We used to shoot 600 rounds per day for 5 days and I don't remember them jamming. I did see a few people raise their hands due to a jam but there were about 100 or more people firing. If my rifle acted like the one described above I would find the problem because there is one: ammo. Mags. Etc. If that didn't work I would send it back. I have seen people shoot over 10000 rounds through ARs as fast as they can with pre loaded mags and no cleaning just spraying lube on the bolt with no jams at all. I do not believe for one second that a mini is more reliable than an AR. I do not believe that these rifles in their highest levels are even remotely in the same league. All autos can jam. But I trust the modern AR as much as any other.

3 years 2 weeks ago, 7:11 PM

luckybychoice

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ironmike

what are you basing your statement on about the Mini-14 not being even remotely being in the same league?.I have shot thousands of rounds out of ARs and a Mini-14,mine,and i couldn't make that statement.If you have some experience i'd like to hear it,good or bad.

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
3 years 2 weeks ago, 2:15 PM

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check this video out,this proves the point ironmike is trying to make. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kzfm4pYhIyY you will see an ar fire full auto 28 30rnd mags till the the gun catches on fire,never a single jam...

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
3 years 2 weeks ago, 3:36 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

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M4 vid

That was a pretty good demonstration on its reliability. Even after the gas tube failure, you could still fire single shot with the charging handle. Nice.

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3 years 1 week ago, 12:53 PM

jay sedler

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saint (vid)

nitris posted that vid in response to a debate about gas pistons on ars.he said it showed gas pistons have no benifit on an ar15,although i disagree,it does show that it isnt a requirment to the gun running reliably without a fancyschmancy piston kit.

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
3 years 1 week ago, 10:42 PM

Ironmike15

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LBC ruger vs AR

Lbc I doubt you are serious...but ok.. where should I begin? Accuracy no contest. Modularity..no contest.. caliber selection.. no contest.. after market options..no contest...competition.hunters, law enforcemet, soldiers..no contest.. now I have seen people whom have never before touched a weapon that within two days instruction can achieve hits with open sights on man targets all day at 500 yards. I certainly can. Everyone with good eye sight I knew could. Even ruger knew their rifles were poor in the accuracy department. I remember reading many articles about the problems. Perhaps they have addressed this issue but as I stated.. as evidenced from the above realities.. they are not in the same league. They should not be. Their price points are quite different as well. Also I mentioned at their highest levels..meaning a top end AR vs a top end mini..not being in the same league. I really don't dislike minis. They just aren't AR platforms which I think is a superior platform.

2 years 50 weeks ago, 6:27 PM

Hoosier64

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AR versus Mini 14

I would have to go with the AR simply for the aftermarket goodies. I am an aftermarket junky and hands down I can do more with the AR. That is not to say I would not like to have a mini, but if I had to choose, I would go with the AR.

2 years 49 weeks ago, 12:40 PM

TLtactical

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AR vs. Mini 14

Quite simply put:

The AR is light weight and accurate... Prices for a new M4 rifles start at $569.99 which is hard to beat... http://colemantyler.com/proddetail.php?prod=PCCTM4

Or a gas piston AR for only $699.99 http://colemantyler.com/proddetail.php?prod=PCCMMGRIFLEM4PISTON

The Ruger mini 14 is very reliable though and for a shooter that does not really like to clean and care for his weapon as much it will be much more reliable when filthy dirty! I find the weight and less accurate barrel to be the determining factors here combined with the endless array of accessories and upgrades available everywhere for the AR15 family of weapons that makes the AR the weapon of choice for myself...

Best Regards TL “It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.” ---Aristotle Greek critic, philosopher, physicist, & zoologist (384 BC - 322 BC)
1 year 11 weeks ago, 7:10 AM

BigNate

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that so many are not fond of the little Rugers! I have both and can say with certainty that the mini is about as bulletproof as any gun made. The AR's have way to many little parts to be better in reliability. Many complain of poor accuracy. I have bought several poor shooters and after cleaning and proper reassembly have seen them shoot as well as the Gov't profile barreled AR with 55gr. I have sold most of them for profit.
I will say if you want to add crap on then the AR is king of the crap add-ons. :)
The magazine thing I can agree with though I have not had near the trouble some people seem to have had. It would be great to see an AR mag adapter for the mini.
In the end the AR is way more popular so parts and mags should be easy to aquire when needed.
I fire NATO ammo out of my ".223" mini's without a hitch for thousands of rounds. The longer throat doesn't change anything. They not only work but work well.

1 year 10 weeks ago, 9:40 PM

runawaygun762

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Nate, if your Mini 14

has a 5.56/.223 chamber, everything will stay fine. If it's a straight .223 chamber, you may never have a problem, as most of the major manufacturers make their chambers stronger than they advertise, but firing 5.56 NATO spec stuff does increase chamber pressure. You may be fine forever, or your chamber may crack the next round you fire.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
1 year 9 weeks ago, 9:42 AM

jay sedler

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ruger mini 14 and 223/5.56 ammo.seems to me this site has had a long discussion on this before,and i belive the result was a call to ruger who said 5.56 is a go in all but the "mach"or varment version wich has a 223 specific chamber.

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
1 year 9 weeks ago, 11:08 AM

luckybychoice

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mini 14

I have one with a couple dozen mags ready to go. I think its a fine weapon but what the hell do i know right.

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
1 year 9 weeks ago, 3:00 PM

tallguy007

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The mini's

always like the way they look but never got the chance to shoot or buy one.

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1 year 9 weeks ago, 7:39 PM

jay sedler

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nothing wrong with the

nothing wrong with the ruger,just not the right choice for me rite now.always thought you were one of the knowledgeable guys lucky.

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
1 year 9 weeks ago, 12:34 PM

luckybychoice

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Well

The magazines suck but I have an AK and rocking them in is muscle memory for either weapon.Definately would like to see the Ruger accept AR mags. I don't feel to outgunned yet but maybe when the bullets start flying.

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
15 weeks 5 days ago, 6:05 PM

maverickjohn

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Mini vs AR

Just checked, the Mini will chamber and fire .223 & 5.56. No one mentioned the Mini is built on the Grand/M-14 receiver & locking system. The Mini field strips the same as Grand / M-14. Might need a small tool to unlock trigger housing group. I don't know if there's a stock with a butt plat to store cleaning. Except for the magazines, I'd prefer surplus magazines. Lots of them. If the mini accepted AR mags. That would be the rifle for me. The best I can do is a Simi match Springfield M-1 Grand, and its 8 round E-Block clip. But I love it.

Maverickjohn, Once a Marine, Always a Marine, Semper Fi

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