Forums / Gun Discussion / ATF seeking ban on Shotguns

4 years 12 weeks ago, 7:48 AM

samD

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The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms is inviting public comments on its new rule regarding shotguns. It plans to ban them.

There will be a ban on imports. (Note: watch prices rise on those already in the USA.)

The basis of this ban will be the guns’ semi-automatic status. It the magazine has more than five rounds, the weapon will be banned.

Why? Because the BATF designates these as “military.”

4 years 12 weeks ago, 8:23 AM

jay sedler

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yet another infringement upon our rights.

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
3 years 2 weeks ago, 6:07 PM

maverickjohn

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Shotgun Ban

Will they also ban 18 & 20in barrels, rifled sights. I had a Ithaca Mod. 37 DS Police Special, Parkerizer finish, rifled sights, holding 8rds (1 chambered). To my knowledge, it is the only shotgun made where you can tie the trigger back, and it will fire as fast as you operate the "Pump" 20in barrel. I gave it to my brother as a gift. I miss it and they no longer make those models. It was a shooter. BATF will find something military about any weapon they want. Just go back into history, all weapons started with the military some how.

Maverickjohn, Once a Marine, Always a Marine, Semper Fi
4 years 12 weeks ago, 8:29 AM

CharlesW

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Bull Shit

I say Bull Shit

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4 years 12 weeks ago, 8:32 AM

jay sedler

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aft ban on shotguns

it appears this is the same story i heard of last year,mostly aimed at the siaga.
here is a link.
http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/012611-study-on-importality-of-...

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
4 years 12 weeks ago, 11:01 AM

clintlebo

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ATF and shotguns

Sam,
Would you be so kind as to post the url from which you gathered the information?

thank you

clint

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin & Hobbes)
4 years 12 weeks ago, 11:32 AM

daisycutter

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ATF to accept public comments prior to outlawing shotguns

by Jack Minor

http://www.greeleygazette.com/press/?p=9223

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms is taking a rare step of allowing public comments prior to issuing a decision on a study that could result in outlawing certain types of shotguns currently available to citizens.

The ATF completed a study regarding the importability of certain shotguns. The basis for a possible ban is based on a loosely defined “Sporting Purpose” test. Using the vague definition almost all pump-action and semi-automatic shotguns could be banned as they are all capable of accepting a magazine, box or tube capable of holding more than 5 rounds. Other characteristics determined to be “military” by the ATF can also be used as a basis for a ban.

Ironically, many shotguns with “military” features are currently being used in shooting competitions held by the USPSA, IDPA and IPSC. The rules could also result in obscure regulations where an individual would be unsure if he is violating them or not.

Dudley Brown, Executive Director of Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, said if the ATF succeeds with the banning of tactical shotguns it “will be the most dangerous interpretation of the 1968 Gun Control Act ever envisioned and will outlaw thousands of perfectly legitimate home defense shotguns.”

The ATF is currently allowing public comments on the study until the end of the month. Those wishing to express concerns about the study can send an email to [email protected]

iyaoyas
4 years 12 weeks ago, 11:11 AM

daisycutter

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model of what a sporting gun should do or look like it's banned.
When gun enthusiasts started calling their favorite semi-autos
assault rifles the gun ban assholes had an orgasm, they shot off in their
their panties. Words out of gun owners mouths that help ban guns.
There is no logic behind the laws, no sound reasoning.
I'm tired and don't want to talk anymore so I'll close by saying, fuck ATF

iyaoyas
4 years 12 weeks ago, 4:48 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

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Once again

gotta agree with Daisy. I swear I'm not stalking! lol
That is exactly what it is. The ignorant drones go by looks. Their masters know better, but they'll take any excuse to ban a gun.
Sure don't remember anything in the 2nd amendment about the right of the people to keep and bear arms limited to what they decide is proper arms.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
4 years 12 weeks ago, 4:59 PM

jay sedler

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saint.

take a look at some of the terms/conditions of "sporting" restrictions on weight,thickness,height.if they are so scared of evil doers,wouldn't they want you to have a big heavy tall thick gun thats easy to see and harder to handle?or is this just another way to eliminate a few more?the later i think.

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
4 years 12 weeks ago, 11:51 AM

jay sedler

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shotgun ban

the only info i found on this was the same as last year,when they were accepting input.acording to what i have read at the batfe website the time to reply was no later than may1 2011.are you guys talking about another study,or is this info being recirculated?anyone know if they have re opened the "study"?

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
4 years 12 weeks ago, 12:07 PM

clintlebo

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Jay,

I did some more research and came up with this, I included my sources as well...

From: http://www.ammoland.com/2011/11/19/little-noticed-provision-kills-atf-sh...

A little noticed provision tucked into a large appropriations bill obviously flew under the radar of the “Brady Bunch” and the “Illegal Mayors.”

The new law effectively kills ATF’s plan to stop tactical/military shotgun imports by way of abusing the “sporting purpose” requirement and their agency rulemaking powers.

The “Fiscal Year 2012 Agriculture, Commerce/Justice/Science (CJS) and Transportation/Housing/Urban Development (THUD) Appropriations bills”, also known as the “Mini-Bus”, was passed by Congress, and signed into law by President Obama on November 18, 2011.

SEC. 541. None of the funds made available by this Act may be used to pay the salaries or expenses of personnel to deny, or fail to act on, an application for the importation of any model of shotgun if–

(1) all other requirements of law with respect to the proposed importation are met; and
(2) no application for the importation of such model of shotgun, in the same configuration, had been denied by the Attorney General prior to January 1, 2011, on the basis that the shotgun was not particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

or for the bill: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112hr2112enr/pdf/BILLS-112hr2112enr.pdf

clint

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin & Hobbes)
4 years 12 weeks ago, 12:13 PM

daisycutter

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one had a hemorrhage over it and the whole thing slipped away quietly.
It'll be back, I'd bet a month's pay on it. Just like the ban on repatriating
military weapons like M1 Garands and M1 Carbines. The issue never
really goes away it just lays in the sewer until some politician or bureaucrat
decides to breathe it back to life.

How's the beautiful baby doin'? You're a lucky guy. Looks like we won't
have any tiny ones here for at least a few years until the G-Kids get
grown up and married ;<( I take advantage of every chance to "spoil"
the G-Kids before they get old enough to realize
"it ain't cool hangin' out with old people"

iyaoyas
4 years 12 weeks ago, 12:25 PM

jay sedler

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thanks clint/daisy

daisy,kid is great she eats and eats like daddy.we just got a bunch of really artsy fartsy professional photos of her done yesterday.little to early for gun pics,but soon she will be.
clint thanks for the info,was wondering what happened to that lil piece of slimy legislation.

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
4 years 12 weeks ago, 12:58 PM

luckybychoice

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shotgun study

I responded to the ATF shotgun study a year ago.I sent them an email explaining my thoughts and a few weeks later they replied to me.I'll see if i can dig it up,although at the time i remember it being pretty bland.But a follow up might be in order.

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
4 years 12 weeks ago, 2:02 PM

jay sedler

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lucky/shotgun "study"

id like to see it.i also sent them my thoughts,but i don't think i got a response,if i did i think i would have posted it here when the original discussion was going on.

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
4 years 12 weeks ago, 4:54 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

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LBC

It would be interesting to see how they responded. I need to follow up myself. However, and forgive my cynicism, I have a feeling their response to public comment will be the effect of, "Thank you for your opinion. It will be duly and promptly ignored and we will do what the fuck we want anyway. Now sit down, shut up, and obey."

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
4 years 12 weeks ago, 5:37 PM

luckybychoice

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I found it

their response was bland"thank you for your comments,,,yadda yadda yadda.

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
4 years 12 weeks ago, 2:06 PM

jay sedler

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my letter to the ATF shotgun study.

Hello,I am a taxpaying gun owning us citizen I am not a terrorist and I hate that so many of us gun owners are being treated as such.The term "sporting purposes"is a non descriptive term that seems to allow you the right to take guns off the market because of the military or military like features they have.All pistols,rifles,and shotguns can and do have a sporting purpose.If I as a taxpaying legal natural born American citizen choose to shoot paper targets, clays,or the dirt for that matter,what difference does it make if I do it with a gun that has a detachable magazine,a pistol grip,semi auto,pump,or bayonet?ALL guns are weapons,and ALL guns can kill people,what makes it a sporting weapon is how the operator chooses to use it.Enough of our 2nd amendment rights have been nibbled away already without further rules, regulations,or gun bans that we all know don"t really stop the criminals.The problem with our crime and safety in this country is the enforcement of the laws that mater,and can prevent or deter crime.It does not matter if every gun hating liberal in the country cant see the reason for a gun I may or may not want to own,I have a RIGHT not a privilege to keep and bear arms as per the 2nd amendment of the constitution written by our founding fathers.The important thing to remember here is the 2nd amendment never says who,or why,or under what laws we may keep and bear arms,nor does it state what arms we may keep.Although I understand,and agree with some weapons being closely controlled,such as machine guns.I do not belive the constitution allows anyone the right to deny the law abiding American public access to them or any other gun completely based on their own idea of "sporting purposes".Please consider the gravity/X games that are widely becoming sports,or being viewed and televised as sports.50 years ago most people wouldn't have thought of these activities as sports.Once baseball,and football,hockey,and all the sports Americans and the rest of the world loves were simply not a sport.Imagine if baseball bats had been deemed "not adaptable to sporting purposes" because people used them incorrectly and only a small amount of the population played the game.We would be denied the most American sport in history!We are not asking for missiles,hand grenades and bombs.We as good American citizens recognize the danger in the general public having this type of things.we all know humans are accident prone,and even if not a single person used their hand grenades in a crime,someone would have an accident.All that having been said please do not infringe upon the rights that I have as a reasonable,non threatening, patriotic citizen have according to the constitution of the U.S.A.thank you for your consideration,I hope you make the right American choice.

fellow citizen John Sedler.

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
4 years 12 weeks ago, 2:33 PM

greg az

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Excelent letter Jay.

Well done.. Most (self included) just sit back and let others do the work.. good job..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
4 years 12 weeks ago, 5:06 PM

samD

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or use a Saiga? They did use some "Streetsweepers" and some Benellis. But those are not available to private citizens.

4 years 12 weeks ago, 5:30 PM

clintlebo

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samD please elaborate

are you saying that just "street sweepers" are not allowed to private citizens, or saigas, streetsweepers, and benellis?

just curious, because I know of at least 3 places I can purchase a benelli in m2 or m4.

clint

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4 years 12 weeks ago, 11:42 PM

samD

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I didn't know that you could purchase benelli military types or Streetsweepers. Obviously anyone with the price of admission can get a Saiga, even Dave Marlowe has one.
Clint you are such a cynic and contrarian. :>)

4 years 12 weeks ago, 8:08 AM

MattyTheJet

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2011

Old bullshit idea getting recirculated, already been shut down, but will come back from the dead like Jason or Freddy. Just be ready to shut it down again.

4 years 12 weeks ago, 9:35 AM

Ishootdaily

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Street Sweeper

I'm pretty sure you can buy one with the paper work and tax stamp.

Have to ask Billy if it is on the Ban list or not. I know he mentioned that it was a couple years back when he mentioned he wished he had not sold his.

With enough money and the correct paper work you can own just about anything, so what you can and can not own is always questionable in the end...

I mean hell, I can buy a retired Russian MIG, and own 4 .50 cal's. Can I put those 50's in the nose or wings of that Mig? "Questionable"

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
4 years 11 weeks ago, 4:43 PM

moedizzl3

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the atf can sell guns to mexican gansters but we cant own semi-auto shotguns to protect us from those same gangsters thats just brass ackwards!!!

The cost of freedom is always high, but Americans have always paid it. And one path we shall never choose, and that is the path of surrender, or submission. ~John F. Kennedy~
4 years 11 weeks ago, 9:27 PM

coppertop

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So how long did it take for you to get your new gun? Without we the people to put controls on the government, the government will put controls on us. And by the way, we as of country have sold many guns to many different people. Some good and some very bad.

4 years 10 weeks ago, 2:26 PM

TXLUCKYGUY

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ATF

ATF turned the StreetSweeper, Striker12, SPAS15 and USAS12 into Destructive Devices in short order, with no vote, no oversight and no recourse.

They can do the same to a variety of firearms in the same fashion in a very short amount of time. Same as POTUS can ban importation of certain guns and ammo via Executive Order.

Bush Srs 1989 ban on HKs, etc...Clinton's ban on Chinese 7.62x39 FMJ and others....same way the whole Class III/NFA restrictions came about. It's not a lack of everyman protests....no matter how much we protest we have no say, no legal recourse.

Just a matter of time and I'll bet the KSG and Saiga will be in their sights, again. If not ATF, then mayors and governors who are no-good Commie hoplophobes.

4 years 10 weeks ago, 2:28 PM

daisycutter

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stop it is replace their bosses.
I am very surprized ammunition is not strictly controlled now.
Hows it down your way?

iyaoyas
4 years 10 weeks ago, 2:50 PM

TXLUCKYGUY

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ammo?

Ammo is flowing freely in the Lone Star State, although it's price will go up again stupidly due to upcoming election and actual cost increase in raw materials worldwide (copper, lead, etc).

TX only ammo restrictions are a poorly worded felony ban on pistol-cal AP, which in reality is rarer than hen's teeth since the late-80s ATF federal restrictions on manufacture and importation.

Some somewhat hippified cities like Austin get cranky about gunshow regs and stuff, but overall TX is one of the best places to be for gunowners.

4 years 10 weeks ago, 3:10 PM

daisycutter

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fedgov some time in the future to restrict calibers and performance of ammo, a slow but eventually an effective way to make guns harder to feed.
If you can't get ammo the gun's not much good. I expected them to do it a long time ago like following the 1968 frenzy.

iyaoyas
4 years 10 weeks ago, 3:20 PM

Ishootdaily

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kinda makes me think that there isn't much hope for the collective intelligence of the shooting community. Firearm prices will skyrocket for select bang sticks too I'm sure.

The Saiga is already $700.00 - $800.00 in Sporting setup as imported. Frankly speaking, it isn't worth much more than $350.00 - $400 in that setup, so you still have to purchase the kits or parts to convert it and make it worth anything more than the basic value.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
4 years 3 weeks ago, 1:09 AM

BANGBANGYD

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Shot Gun BAN ? NOT.

News Flash: U.S. Sen. Moran and 50 Senators: Second Amendment Rights Not Negotiable.
JUL. 30, 2012

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