SAFTENG  |
I joined this site 1 week and two days ago and posted a question on this forum about a deal that GunsLot had on their site. Like those who responded, I though this deal was too good to be true or was some type of fine print that it was a "reconditioned" gun or something. After all, a Sig P250 .40 for $350 is unheard of. I e-mailed the seller (QUINTON) asking if this was for real and what was the "catch" with this unbelievable deal. He responded back to me via e-mail that night (12/26/08) that it was in fact "for real" that there were four left in stock (same invetory level shown on the website). I then contact my local FFL holder on the morning of the 27th to begin the transfer paper and bought the gun that day (12/27). Once I completed the on-line transaction, I checked and the website then showed only three in stock. So all indications were that it went through. The order showed up via e-mail, in my account on the site, and my AMEX was charge went thru that night. I then got an e-mail on 12/29 that my order would be shipped on 1/2/09. I contacted my FLL holder and updated him on the ship date and tried to determine if all the paper work was completed so as to not delay the arrival of my new sig. I was unable to speak with the actually holder as he was off, so I attempted to contact GunsLot only to fnd that their offices were closed till 1/5/08. I e-mailed the seller and sent him a message through the site in hopes of getting an update on the status of my order. Today (1/5/09) I get home from work, nine days later, I am informed that my gun is out of stock and my money was refunded, all the while the other three websites that had a similar deal sold out as well. Granted the old saying goes...if it sounds to good to be true, it is!!! A new sig for $350 is too good to be true; however, I think I was screwed on this deal. Had I not gotten an e-mail from the seller himself (Quinton) telling me there were four in stock and this number corresponded exactly with the invetory level on the site (and when I bought the gun the invenotry on the site dropped to three) I would have not been surprised to find out this was some type of clerical error. Just let it be known that if you find something on this site, don't believe what you read or are told about the product as I found out today...I dealt with one of the owners and was mislead. I guess I am more depressed from coming off the high that I found a place that sells Sig's for $350. Back to the ole gun store where I see and handle the weapon before shelling out the cash. I want it to be known, I was NOT, in anyway, ripped off. My money was refunded in FULL. I am not calling anyone a crook; I just feel that someone with a higher rank (no relation to the ranks of members on this site) got wind of this deal and bought the gun out from under me and that I will no longer be doing business with this company. Buyer Beware. |
runawaygun762
Well I'll be damned. I thought it was all forum members listing personal weapons.
Nitris
I didn't even think members sold them, just talked about it.
coldfront
yes they sell guns, hence the store button right next to community. however, i dont know how much of a store it is if situations like that mentioned above arise.
Snake
is jump at a good deal....but be careful what you buy.
SAFTENG
I just checked the site a few seconds ago when making my complaint to the BBB and see that they now have the gun "IN STOCK AND READY TO SHIP" but today the price is $715.95. Funny thing, this is the e-mail I got from them today @ 3:40 p.m. EST.
Bryan XXXXXXX,
Your order number 239 at GunsLot has been updated.
Order status: Canceled
Order comment: The firearm you ordered is currently out of stock. Your order has been refunded in full. We apologize for the inconvenience.
Browse to the following page to login to your account and view your order details: http://www.gunslot.com/user
Thanks again,
GunsLot
Gun Reviews, Community & For Sale
Now I am really pissed as this is the old "bait and switch" routine. I would also like it to be known the seller for this gun is one of the owners of this site. His member name is QUINTON and his bio states that he and another gentleman started the site together. So it was not some member who did this; this is the owner of the site I was dealing with. Had it been a member, I would not have been raising the alarm as I am doing. To tell me your out of stock and then to have your inventory levels on site state they are in stock and ready to ship for $715 is just plain bad business and potentially illegal business. They now have a formal compalint with the BBB in Phoenix , AZ regarding their sales practcies!
Reaper308
I understand your frustration, but it sounds like a simple price mistake that quinton wasn't aware of when you origionally questioned the price. other members have bought from this site with no problems at all. Both of the owners of this site are legit and they run a legal business.
SAFTENG
Like I said in my original post, had Quinton not responded to my inquiry about this deal being too good and stating to me that it was in fact a real deal and there were four in stock I would have written it off as a clerical error. Here is the e-mail exchange, of which I think you will better understand there is something very improper taking place here. I made it very clear in my original post that I was not ripped off and not calling anyone a thief; however, to send me an email stating the gun is out of stock when it is not is bordering on illegal sales practices. Not really like a "bait and switch" as used in retail and car sales. Imagine if I told you I had a product for $XXXX and you gave me $XXXX and I held it for 7 days. When you came back for the product I tell you I am out of that specific model, but I do have the exact same product, only twice as much, that I can sell you. What would your response be?
On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 8:55 PM, wrote:
Submitted on Dec 26 2008 - 20:55
Submitted by user: SAFTENG [74.215.141.107]
Submitted values are:
Name: SAFTENG
Email: Bhaywood@fuse.net
Message: Sig Sauer P250 Semi-automatic Double Action Only Compact 40 S&W
3.9" Polymer Blue 13Rd 1 Mag Upg Kit Fixed Night Sights
Reduced price for $357.95.
Is this for real?
From: Quinton Figueroa [mailto:slayerment@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:12 PM
To: Bhaywood@fuse.net
Subject: Re: Form submission from: Contact GunsLot
Yes, this is for real. We have 4 left in stock and don't forget about
the transfer fee you may have to pay as well as shipping.
Quinton
coldfront
price mistake or not, if it was listed for 350 and there was inventory of it and someone completed a sale, that price should be honored. If it was a mistake, then seller eats that mistake. thats the way it is in retail, thats why you have to becareful and catch this before someone completes a sale. I do think that filing with BBB is a little extreme in fact that the money was refunded and it was an honest mistake. noone here would intentionally rip anyone off
greasypaws
care to comment?i like to hear both sides of the story!and so do others!
Dr.angusmd21
is a joke. if you (a company) are a member of the BBB and a complaint is filed, ALL you have to do is, once notified by the BBB, is to file an intelligent response that makes credible claim to rectify the situation and the BBB will remove the complaint from the record. that having been said, I would like to hear the other side of this story. . . and think a 30 day rain check should have been offered if payment was accepted. it was a paid in full transaction. but again. . . i would like to reserve judgment until both sides are heard.
greasypaws
i just am curious why they havent responded to us yet.or maybe they wont but either way i enjoy this site and will continue to bring my charm and wit for all to see!
marvin
I am just going to make one comment on this and then move on because we have a very legitimate and increasingly successful business to run. Additionally, our time should be spent bringing you the best features and best products rather than addressing these issues.
1. The price was mismarked and most of our staff was out during the holidays with their families and could not cross reference that particular supplier for 10 business days. When we arrived back into the office and could check that specific supplier, we realized the price was mismarked. No one was able to purchase the gun at that price. Our gun sales are growing at a solid pace and we look forward to bringing you the best deals on the market.
To make the following statement and then try to file a claim with the better business bureau is absurd: "I want it to be known, I was NOT, in anyway, ripped off. My money was refunded in FULL. I am not calling anyone a crook; I just feel that someone with a higher rank (no relation to the ranks of members on this site) got wind of this deal and bought the gun out from under me and that I will no longer be doing business with this company. Buyer Beware."
You have just said that there is no problem, but you are depressed that you didn't get a firearm shipped to you that was mismarked. As for your decision not to do business with GunsLot, quite frankly that will be your loss.
We believe in allowing members to express themselves as well as their concerns and we will leave this post up for now. The GunsLot staff has strong values solidified in honesty, diligence, hard work and integrity, however human error will cause mistakes at times. We are sorry this caused you "depression", but we have a business to run for our 10,000+ registered members and 300,000 monthly new guests.
Thank you all for your comments.
SAFTENG
Thanks for your response Marvin; however, your position does not add up to be complete. Your partner was made aware of said mistake and then CONFIRMED said mistake, even being kind enough to warn me about the transfer and shipping cost. I bought the gun the next day and was told two days later that it would ship on 1/2/09. One would think that through all of this a flag would have been raised by someone other than the BUYER who questioned the price at the very start of the transaction. That is just sad and I feel for your future customers.
You guys may want to read a book, attend a seminar, or hire a customer service professional, as you and QUINTON have a flawed service model. Maybe the gun business is just so hot right now this one little customer means nothing to you; not sure which it is. I too once had an internet sales business and because of the deals I had to eat because of improperly marked on-line pricing I decided I was not properly staffed, could not afford the right level of staffing and skills sets to run that type of business; so I exited the on-line retail portion of the business rather than have unhappy customers and my name drug thru the mud. You see I always HONORED my mistakes made by my employees and I would personally call the customer and explain to them the error and that there was a pricing mistake; that I would honor this one-time order but no future orders at that price. When there was an inventory error, either on my end or my suppliers end, and the customer would not get their goods at the originally scheduled time I would call them and explain to them the issue and to make sure they are happy customers by adding a few more items to the order, send them a gitft card for my business to use at a later date or promise to discount their next order by 25%. Anything to keep them happy and to make up for MY MISTAKE. Rather your model is...let's not communicate with the customer at all, let's tell them we are out of stock of that item and hope they are dumb enough to believe it. No apologies for your screw up, not even an explanation until I drag your repuation thru the mud on your own message board and you actually continue to insult my inteligence by flinging insults about my response to your screw up. All I can say is better luck with your future paying customers and you may want to let some of your long time users (those thousands of members you refer to) that you actually can buy guns on your site. Of my two postings, you can see some high ranking members were not even aware you could by guns on this site. I, a paying customer, will not be returning.
greasypaws
thank you!i allow for mistakes but wanted to give others a chance to hear your side so that they dont look at "our"site in a bad way.i look forward to logging on here everyday and when i cant it drives me nuts.by your response it tells me as a former business owner and operator that you care.that is a hard thing to find in this world currently.keep up the good work fellas!
coldfront
wow, frankly i do not see any customer service in marvin's response. Basically what I got from it was a "fuck you" to the seller. Thats not good, yes it may have been a mistake, but rather then cancel and say they are not in stock, then restock with the correct price is messed up. the deal shouldve been honored then corrected the mistake. What is it in the sales world that gun dealers think that customer service and basic "rules" of retail do not apply to them??? Dont get me wrong, I like this site and everyone on here, I have spoken with marvin and quinton before,be it on the forums or notifying them of bots on the site and found that they are very nice and easy to get along with, but this was handled wrong.
mrn84d
Let's drop the good customer service bologna and all the be nice and the customer is always right and talk business....Safteng caught a mistake, he verified said mistake, he purchased said mistake....Gunslot Q verified said mistake, realized that he made another mistake, and fixed it all...Safteng tried to get over on something for nothing. I think that we all know being into guns that you are not going to find a sig for that price...hell even a LE turn in is going to be a little higher, so you know good and dog on well that you won't get a new one for that...Safteng get over it, you shot your shot missed, so enjoy the site or kick mud...stop crying like a five year old cause like Marvin basically said with out saying it is you are SOL dude.
coldfront
thats was the dumbest thing i have ever read on here yet
runawaygun762
mrn84d, that was ridiculous. Something for nothing? c'mon, guy. Even if the buyer was completely aware that it was a mistake, it is up to the seller to ensure the prices are correct, and if a buyer finds a product marked too low, then good for them. My opinion (we all know the saying about opinions...thanks samD) is that the site should have honored the sale and eaten the cost. With such a successful business as Marvin ha described, the cost is not going to be that bad for the business and would have provided a very comfortable environment to purchase guns in compared to other places online. Buying guns online is a hit or miss type thing anyway, as you cannot handle the actual weapon you will be purchasing and the staff on this site missed an opportunity to make potential customers feel more comfortable, knowing they had such a trustworthy source. Personally, I couldn't care less, as I think I'm one of those "long time users" that didn't know they sold guns here (sweet, I'm a 'regular' somewhere). I knew there were guns with prices, but I figured it sent you to another site, like an adverticing sort of deal. But anyway. safteng, you got hosed, mrn84d, you made no sense, gunslot staff, you missed an advertising opportunity, and I just let a wet fart, so i need to go wipe my opinion.
LLE
all of us here of an important consideration, without taking sides or any intended castigation of Marvin/Quinton.
There are good opinions here, on both sides of this issue. As you can guess, this is not the "first Rodeo" on such a customer relations problem.
There is settled common law in the event the parties are unable to come to a mutual agreement. I cite this NOT TO SUGGEST bothersome litigation, but to demonstrate HOW our society has looked at such disputes.
The common law is called: "The Covenant of Good Faith and Fair Dealing", and it is used often in retail trade disputes. It states, for example, that the parties to the [retail] contract have a lawful duty to deal with each other fairly and in good faith. Once again--I am describing this BECAUSE it is a guide to an important value system of our society--NOT IN ANY WAY TO SUGGEST ANY LEGAL ACTION.
mrn84d
They made a mistake you are not going to find a brand new sig for $345 on the coldest day in hell anywhere. That's it and to use a little common sense and realize that it was a mistake stop trying to make them honor that price and move the fuck on! You want customer service go and purchase that gun from Cabellas or Bass Pro Shop, cause bet your bottom dollar that if they have a misprint in an ad they sure as hell will not sell it for that price....they will say it is sold out and no rainchecks...
coldfront
you have got to be the dumbest bastard on the planet. any retail location will most certainly honor any misprinted ad until inventory is gone or until the ad is corrected.
LLE
point. Why did you have to spoil it by labelling someone with a nasty name?
Schuyler
that is, no one is being called a liar here, so we have the same set of facts from both sides. Now, if this guy had placed an order and Quinton had communicated back, "Sorry, we messed up the price and we can't sell you the piece for that much," then all is well and good. An offer to buy was received and it was refused. No transaction took place. The prospective buyer might be unhappy, but it is not illegal to refuse a transaction.
But that's not what happened. Quinton apparently confirmed the order, charged the guy money, and said it would be shipped on a certain date, and AFTER THAT EXCHANGE renegged on the deal. A transaction took place. It was complete and THEN Gunslot unilaterally took back the deal.
See the difference here?
Gunslot had the opportunity to accept or reject the offer to buy. They accepted, and only after that did they realize they had 'made a mistake' and cancelled the completed transaction. The only reason they could do so is beacuse of the mail-order/online nature of the transaction because they still had possession, albeit for a piece they had sold. Had this guy walked into a gunshop, paid, and walked out with the gun, the gunshop owner would have had no recourse. The gunshop owner could not then go the guy's house and demand the gun back for a return of the money. Sorry, transaction's over, buddy! In this case Gunslot broke a consummated contract.
At the very least, without calling anyone names or suggesting attitudes, this shows a sloppy and disorganized way of doing business. Not only could they not get the right price on the piece in the first place, they broke a concluded contract to get their way in the matter. I'm suggesting that this is unethical at best, and if they continue this way of doing business, they won't be in business for long. And, no, I don't think that is my loss.
LLE
a contract was consumated. Offer made--offer accepted with "consideration";
one party renegged AFTER the agreement was consumated; ergo, an apparent breach of contract. Buyer did not file a summons/complaint over the alleged breach; buyer apparently accepted a full refund as consideration for an agreement to close the matter. It appears that the buyer no longer has a cause of action, and the voluminous further negative commentary by the "buyer" might be considered a slander/libel, by the "seller".
Personal opinion: Neither of the parties behaved in accordance with the principles of good faith and fair dealing.
Pissing Contest Switch is now in the "OFF" position.
Schuyler
OK, but this points to another difference in online/credit card transactions. The buyer in this case had no choice in 'accepting' the refund. It just appeared. Retailers have the 'power' to refund into an account even without the buyer's knowledge. If this were a cash and in-person transaction, the buyer would have had opportunity to refuse the refund on the basis that this was a consummated transaction. In this case the buyer had no opportunity to refuse the refund. He is clearly in a subordinate position here. Also, he has not YET filed a summons/complaint. This just happened. So far we have no evidence that anything said by both parties is in error. If what the buyer has said is demonstrably true and devoid of exaggeration or misstatement of fact, then there is no cause for libel/slander. A statement has to be false before it can be construed as libel.
I'm not suggesting he pursue the matter. In fact, it is clearly not cost-effective to do so. I am, however, thankful for the warning.
LLE
Where is the evidence that demonstrates buyer "had no choice"?; he was not in any way enjoined from serving upon seller that refund/credit was not acceptable, and such action is considered breach of contract? Buyer, in absence of such action on his own part, and remaining silent, would be deemed in constructive receipt of the funds, and without written objection or filing suit, would be deemed to have agreed to a "settlement". Buyer, out of his own mouth[keyboard?] stated as much:"I was not,in any way, ripped off",etc.
As for libel/slander, all that I said was continuing comments by buyer might be considered by seller as slander/libel. I am sure he would have gotten competent legal advice.
SAFTENG
Mr. LLE,
I was never contacted about this. Just received the following e-mail Monday afternoon. I attempted to contact their offices in Pheonix and e-mailed them asking for more information and still to this day have never received any communications from them about this matter. of course other than Marvin's post on this blog. So your assumption that the buyer "accepted a full refund as consideration for an agreement to close the matter". I never had a choice about the matter. I am in no way taking any legal action, but just felt that if this is their business model I should warn others of Buyer Beware. I did file a complaint with the BBB in Phoenix, and although Marvin seems to think that was stupid and the case would not go anywhere, they have responded and asked for more documentation regarding this matter. It is amazing what you can pull off of Google's cached page files with their help. First time ever doing a BBB complaint, but thought that would be a fair recourse for a third party to make judgment if any wrong doing took place. At the end of the complaint they ask what type of resolution I was seeking and I stated nothing, just wanted to file a complaint against their business practices so other can be forewarned by a third party and not an unhappy customer. I have enjoyed reading everyone's postings today!
LLE
You in fact DID have a choice, if you felt something was amiss in the transaction. You had the affirmative duty to pursue all legal channels of communication, and assure an active, continual written record of certified communications, so that in the case of a legal dispute, you could show that the seller ignored you. That would demonstrate to a third party[like small claims court] that the seller was not acting fairly and in good faith, and the judgement may very well have compelled the seller to conclude the sale as originally agreed to.
Sitting back and "attempting" one or two communications of questionable probative value, and tacitly accepting the "refund", would indicate to a third party, lack of resolve on your part, to correct a perceived breach of contract.
Eturnit3
But I think as an honorable site/store this would be better off cut as a loss. The Price Advertised should be honored and the mistake in pricing (which Im sure has already been) fixed. JMHO as a retail dealer myself. In fact if something like this were swept under the rug... Any person having read this thread, would be highly unlikely to purchase from you. the buyer, having confirmed the price from the seller, then going through the troubles of arranging the fll paper work and all...receiving a ship confirmation, then back peddling seems to me like a chicken shit way to do business, I dont care if its cabelas, bass pro, sportsman's warehouse or joe blows gun shop, bad business is bad business. It is also my opinion that this was handled wrong from the get go (i guess the get go would be right when marvin posted his response) and even now is a little late to take back the "fuck you". So to the owners... good luck to you and your business, all it takes is one person to spread the word about there bad deal to ruin your business. Aside from this, I love your site.
mrn84d
You keep calling me names cause I expressed an opinion diffrent from yours. Instead of pointing that out and why you disagree you want to stoop to name calling...Im fine with that but dude next time I may not be so kind....O and by the way next time you want to post a photo of your "hot" girlfriend...make sure she IS hot and not a crackhead off the street
coldfront
wow, I sure feel bad now.
LLE
become you, nor does it reflect a logical way of continuing a good lively discussion, about something that happened to a fellow community member.
coldfront
coldfront <---- pulls out a stick "is it my turn to beat the horse?" as far as sarcasim, it was directed to the very intellectual individual <-- more yummy sarcasim, that refferenced my wife as a crackhead, not towards the situation at hand which is obviously being overdone like a steak.
runawaygun762
Given that the only truly appropriate response to having your girlfriend referred to as an ugly crack whore is to knock the guy the fuck out, and given that since those two are probably beyond contact distance, the sarcastic response was a much better one than to degenerate into a name calling pissing match-oh, wait. That has already happened. Well, coldfront was correct, and if anybody should receive a admonishment from you, LLE, it should be the other guy, not coldfront. Of course, that's my opinion. And seriously, "i'm fine with that but next time I might not be so kind"? This is a good example of the online rambo. "WATCH OUT OR I'LL TELL YOU TO WATCH OUT AGAIN!!! DON'T MAKE ME NOT READ YOUR POSTS!!!"
coldfront
thank you for shedding the light back on reality <-- no sarcasim lol
LLE
I must have missed something important, or I am just too stupid to have read something properly; "ugly crack whore"? "wife" vs "girlfriend"?
What happened to "dumbest bastard on the planet"?
Obviously, there is something here, I truly do not understand, other than some talent at name calling.
By the way, the original horse died, and still got beaten almost mercilessly; Alas, I must confess to being one of the "beaters".
coldfront
we still dig ya
LLE
are you a musician, or did you just borrow the lingo?
Please remember that when addressing someone older than dirt, the verb "dig" may represent cause for alarm.
Papasan
What is the ratio of Satisfied customers to Un-Satisfied customers regarding Guns Lot?
It seems with little or no research you can come up with an answer to the above question. i.e. We witness many a happy participants on Guns Lot, wealth of knowledge from a highly diverse community not found on any other web-site. In closing those that take easy aim here at a small in fraction, where neither party was injured, leaves us to wonder what you are doing here in the first place. My many thanks to Marvin and Quinton for supplying us with this great site free of charge.
Papasan
coldfront
whats up? where have ya been?
Papasan
I have spent some time with my son. he shoots movies, I shot the photos, we went all over AZ for his new film.
Papasan
How was your XMAS?
coldfront
that's sounds cool. Xmas was good, lots of family and what not. what kind of films does your son do?
Papasan
He writes and directs all his own stuff, it varies, widely...
But this one was a Post Apocalyptical Zombie movie, with all the crazy shit to go with!
My X does all the Special effects and make up too...
It was a blast, but I am enjoying the break now...
ebear
good to have you back.Cold front can I have your crackhead girlfriend when you're done with her
Papasan
Thanks, good to sit still and take a few days off...
If the weather holds out I can get to the range Friday.
And ebear, stay away from coldfronts sloppy seconds, he is very teritorial...
ebear
is that why coldfront likes to piss allover his front lawn?
coldfront
shhh dont tell!! and yeah isnt the crackead comment about my wife funny?? I thought it was good.... at sucking......
Dr.angusmd21
why on the way to purchase my kids first gun (private deal with an old family friend) i stressed the point several times of sealing the deal with a hand shake. cash was exchanged for the gun (a marlin model 60w gold medallion) and both kids (10 and 11 yrs old) offered to shake the sellers hand. i saw a tear in the old (74) guys eye. later he told me he sells several guns a year and to have two kids buy their first from him and to seal the deal in the honorable way was the best gun deal he had made in years.
runawaygun762
I have a skin disease, I like to sneeze in my hand, and I don't use toiletpaper when I wipe.