Forums / Strategies, Tactics & Training / Combat Focus Shooting

5 years 25 weeks ago, 8:36 AM

LLE

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Combat Focus Shooting

Last night, on the Outdoors Channel, one of the regular Wednesday programs called "The Best Defense" featured Rob Pincus, and introduced his concept and practice of his brainchild, "Combat Focus Shooting".
It was particularly interesting because the idea is to train in a way that uses known human reactions in a high stakes confrontation. Of course you have to have basic firearms skills, but beyond that, the training is human behavior oriented, based on detailed research into how people ACTUALLY responded in such critical situations.
It was interesting and informative. As he said--if it happens, you are not going to be facing some bad guy 30 feet in front of you on a range, surrounded by an earth berm. You are going to be in a 360 degree threat environment, that may be anything from very confined to very open.
I have practiced some fast movement, one-hand shooting similar to what he showed last night. It is difficult and somewhat dangerous, so if you are going to do it, start slow, and work up in speed.

You can google I.C.E shooting, to get more info about Rob's training programs.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
5 years 25 weeks ago, 6:34 AM

Rob Pincus

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Thanks for watching!

LLE,

Thanks for watching the episode and for sharing your thoughts. I agree with you wholeheartedly about training the more advanced aspects of defensive shooting... without stepping through the fundamentals many times, one shouldn't try to perform some of the drills that they see online, on TV or in the training videos.

Train Well.

-RJP

5 years 25 weeks ago, 7:04 AM

LLE

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In the near future, I am going to try to schedule one of your basic training programs, such as the one in Knoxville, [although that one seems to conflict with my summer work schedule].
I am looking forward to your new program series, and wish you continued success.

LLE

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
5 years 25 weeks ago, 6:41 AM

samD

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Rob Pincus

Welcome to Gunslot.com
Hope to view some of your training episodes. I tried to Google I.C.E shooting to no avail, but will now put in your name. We have a lot of serious shooters here and we do get silly at times. But overall it is a nice spot for cameraderie. Any time you would like to put up a Forum, pictures or a short <6 min video, please feel free. We would love to have your input.

Thanks,
SamD

Rob's site is: http://www.icetraining.us/

5 years 25 weeks ago, 7:07 AM

charley9toe

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Great

It's great to have Rob Pincus with us. His input will certainly be nice to have. Welcome aboard.

(You have to look behind all of that outer space stuff)
5 years 24 weeks ago, 12:50 PM

runawaygun762

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No disrespect intended

to a badass goatee, but isn't this the same concept W.E. Fairbairn brought to the Shanghai Police? Isn't it also the same concept Eric Haney wrote about when discussing early training methods Delta used? It certainly has its merits, and I am not Front Sight or Gunsite disciple, but since shooting is not at all natural, it seems to me that if you train to use your sights, you will use your sights. This does, of course, assume you are not busy cowering and firing gansta-style over the hood of your vehicle (or whatever cover you are hoping to use). This is an age-old debate and I'll stay on the side of sighted fire in all but the most intimate of settings. I may go with a combat/target/instinctive/whatever you call it technique the next time I'm ambushed in an elevator or phone booth, though. I'll let ya'all know how that goes.

I hope.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 24 weeks ago, 9:33 AM

LLE

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all of the newer concept guys are saying the shooter may very well be in deep kimchi if he is just a one trick pony. Perfect example is Robin "Brownie" Brown. I think he [and Rob Pincus] have an eclectic view of the major things we should train for. If for example, you are in a high threat close quarters environment, you might very well die if your reflex is front sight/press, but with more distance and some cover to go to, front sight/press is good.
I would call these "newer" approaches "adaptive capability" for living through the fight.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
5 years 24 weeks ago, 12:30 PM

LittleDragon

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and ryo have heard the same thing you have mention below about Haney. Delta Force itself is a very uhm for lack of better word, selective, organization about their choices of members, and current and former members do not generally go around bragging about it. ryo also like your term, "adaptive capability" this is very useful way to look at this concept. ryo also would have thought that LLE san would have some of his own ideas about this to share with us and would very much like to hear about them if you not mind sharing.

Your friend,

LittleDragon

Moshi Moshi from LittleDragon
5 years 24 weeks ago, 1:55 PM

LLE

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He is a very wise man. I believe his approach is "adaptive" because he does not try to apply only one way of doing things to EVERYTHING that might face him.[While he says he always uses sighted
He assesses, ahead of time, what the highest probability threats will be and trains for that, in ways THAT ARE MOST IN SYNCRONIZATION with his knowledge of self. Most importantly, he knows the best goal is to stay alert, in condition Yellow, and avoid the fight if you can.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
5 years 24 weeks ago, 2:01 PM

LittleDragon

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ryo like this new member too. he very intelligent man and have make several comments to him about his posts. also, this threat assessment concept is not new to ryo or little brother. we train for this in martial arts, in particular the Mado is very good for this concept of condition yellow and to alway be aware of surroundings and have sort of spherical awareness of what is going on around you. see most people when they walk, the move from behind their eyes. the walk from their head point of view instead of moving from your, "center" which is your center of balance and gravity. is not hard to learn how to move and to walk like such. it just take a little practice, but it easier to move and change stance or direction from on direction to nother with almost effortless movement. this is very much a martial arts concept and the Mado form of Aikido teaches this.

Your friend,

LittleDragon

Moshi Moshi from LittleDragon
5 years 24 weeks ago, 1:35 PM

LittleDragon

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however ryo not familiar enough with these training methods and would like to learn more. do you know of a url where ryo can get some objective based basic understanding of these methods so can evaluate for self please ka but at the outset ryo really like what you have to say about your choice of method because, as usual from you, it seem base more on common sense.

Your friend,

LittleDragon

Moshi Moshi from LittleDragon
5 years 24 weeks ago, 4:03 PM

LLE

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except that Haney is known to be somewhat of an exaggerator of his background and experience in the Delta force.
I would suggest that anyone skeptical about Pincus' ideas, practices and instruction methods, should watch the Wednesday nite series on the Outdoors channel ["The Best Defense"], and come to your own conclusions.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
5 years 24 weeks ago, 12:38 AM

Mark3030

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Rob Pincus

first of all welcome glad to have ya here enjoy
really did enjoy youre show very informative

"the thrill of the hunt"
5 years 24 weeks ago, 12:24 PM

wjh2657

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To start off, I am a Rob Pincus fan. I have several of his videos and watch "The Best Defense" by taping it on DVR. I am a Gunsite grad and shot team pistol while in the USMC (30 years active duty.) I always fired with my sights and slo-o-o-owly to be accurate.

Research and some personal experiences, including being held up in Chicago (I was of course unarmed) has led me to believe that I needed to change my whole concept of personal secirity and self defense. My threat on the streets of Tennessee or in my home is not going to be 4-5 terrorists with AK-47s, but one or two, probably teenagers or at most in 20s, hoodlums out for a score. High capacity 9s or 45s with special sights and 5-6 extra magazines are not the answer here. I have gone to S&W J-frames (always have one on me, regardless of manner of garb) and shooting fast and close. I now practice at 10 feet (one handed), 15 feet (two handed but still very,very fast) and at 21 feet (two handed and a little bit slower. At no point do I use anything other than front sight.I shoot in burst of two and three, except at 10 feet where I fire all 5. This is going to be my arena of operations. Those of you who haven't seen Rob's shows or videos don't know that he practices avoidance more than combat. If the BGs are over 25 feet away, try first to get away from them. The object of the Combat Focus is not to win a gunfight, it is to stay alive. The best way to survive a gunfight is to not get involved in one!

I am much more aware of my surroundings now. I avoid ATM's at night, park where the lighting is good and watch people when they get too close to me. Rob's stuff is for us working stiffs with HCPs, not for LEOs or combat types.

All said and done, I now can keep all of my shots from a 642 in a 5" circle in all strings of fire mentioned. That is COM and the kill zone on a human being.

Thank you Rob, and I am waiting for more advice.

5 years 24 weeks ago, 11:12 PM

runawaygun762

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When in public,

I would much rather have my hi-cap 9mm with an extra magazine than hope i can resolve the issue with 5 rounds from a revolver. I agree wholeheartedly that avoidance is the best possible solution for surviving outside the walls of the bunker. I also know that should I find myself in the local mall and hear shots ring out, Once my wife and son are out an exit, I will move toward the threat rather than hope the police arrive in time. I do not fancy myself some sort of tough guy or hero, but I carry a weapon for the defense of myself and others. I would much rather have the equipment and ammo to handle any social setting from a couple dopers to a shotgun-wielding maniac in the mall. I guess the more concise post would have been "Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it".

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 24 weeks ago, 4:22 PM

LLE

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anything you just posted. I guess the issue of avoidance might have some slack. Direct CQ confrontation--he's going down if I am fast and accurate enough. In the Mall, without trying to be a hero, if I can flank him, undetected, and get a safe shot without injuring or killing a bystander, I probably would have to try--if the LEO's are nowhere in sight.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
5 years 24 weeks ago, 2:06 AM

runawaygun762

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The mall scenario

Is one I have "wargamed" many times over. I believe it is simply a matter of time before terrorists stage an organized mass murder in a public place like a mall. I have come to the conclusion that the best response until the police secure the scene is to secure an exit away from the attack, ensure my wife and son are safe, then begin moving toward the attack, clearing store to store, exacuating people out the exit. This will provide the opportunity to save as many people as possible while also ensuring I don't pass any uncleared danger areas. Not a perfect plan, but I don't habitually go in public with a platoon of soldiers. Although, I have learned that open carry law in Arizona includes longarms as well as handguns. I wonder how much attention I'll get with my M4 hanging on my front and my Mossy 590 on my back with all three Glocks on the belt. Could be fun.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 24 weeks ago, 5:53 AM

LLE

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will be an absolute necessity, if you plan on going to a mall equipped like that. You may actually be elected to be the most respected for 2009 and 2010, and you probably will be discussed on national news.
I can just picture an interview--"Why did you do this!?"---"Because I can."
LMAO!!

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
5 years 23 weeks ago, 8:52 AM

runawaygun762

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According to the law, anyone excercising control of a facility can tell me to leave and if I refuse, I can be charged with Criminal Trespass. What I wonder, however, if if I were to walk into Fry's supermarket or Wal-Mart, would anyone have the cojones to confront me, or would the police department just instantly become overwhelmed with hol-up alarms and 911 calls? I'm trying to decide if the unwanted attention from the police and possibly armed do-gooders would be worth the opportunity for humor. I should probably consult an attorney first.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.

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