Forums / Political & Legal / the confederate flag's meaning

5 years 30 weeks ago, 12:47 PM

coldfront

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I’ve known many people who have flown the Battle Flag, and none of them are racist. The entire State of Mississippi has been flying it over all of their government buildings since 1894. Texas flies the Stars and Bars at every governmental building as well (along with the other five flags to have flown over Texas). The reason behind the desire to honor symbols of the Confederacy is not racism. It instead stems from a regional identity and the noble notions of state sovereignty. These feelings of regional unity are only strengthened by the poor economic situation in many Southern states, and the sense they have that they suffer in poverty while the Northern states enjoy prosperity. It is understandable as well, only one Southern state makes the top ten ranks for average personal income, and then only comes in at 9th. Meanwhile, half of the states in the lowest ten ranks of personal income are in the South. Add to this economic stagnation and decay and you have a recipe for regional resentment.

The false notion that the Battle Flag must be a racist symbol is born of the mistaken belief that the Civil War was about slavery. This bit of propaganda has been repeated ever since President Lincoln and his political allies decided to “free the slaves” (in actuality Lincoln only freed those slaves in the Confederacy, slaves in Union states such as Maryland and West Virginia remained slaves). The truth, however, is plain to anyone who wishes to delve into the history, and the proof lies in the proposed Corwin Amendment of 1861. This amendment was proposed by Congressman Thomas Corwin (R) from Ohio and stated,

No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State.

Prior to his election, Lincoln had voiced his support of the amendment. Like many politicians of his time, Lincoln believed in the preservation of the Union beyond all else. When the Bill was brought before the House seven states had already formally left the Union (Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Georgia, Florida, and South Carolina) never the less the bill passed 133-65 and was forwarded to the Senate. In March of 1861 the Senate approved the bill 24-12. Both of these votes were from a Northern majority, seeing as most of the South had already left. Both the outgoing President, James Buchanan, and the newly elected Abraham Lincoln publicly endorsed the amendment. In fact, during Lincoln’s inaugural address he had this to say of the Corwin Amendment,

I understand a proposed amendment to the Constitution–which amendment, however, I have not seen–has passed Congress, to the effect that the Federal Government shall never interfere with the domestic institutions of the States, including that of persons held to service. To avoid misconstruction of what I have said, I depart from my purpose not to speak of particular amendments so far as to say that, holding such a provision to now be implied Constitutional law, I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.1

The amendment went on to be ratified by Ohio, Maryland, and then Illinois before the outbreak of the Civil War halted the process of adopting the new amendment. Now ask yourself, if the Civil War was really about slavery why didn’t the Corwin Amendment, already passed by the Federal Legislature and well on its way to ratification (given the three free states which had ratified it, and the 15 slave states which would as well, only four more states would have needed to ratify it), end the conflict? The Northern states had already compromised on slavery. The truth is that the Civil War was not about slavery, it just became popular to create propaganda to make it seem so because it gave the Union an image of moral superiority.

Despite these facts, I still oppose the use of the Confederate Flag and applaud Obama’s statement. Not because the flag is racist, but because flying it, especially on government property, is treason. The Confederate flag represents a nation which declared open war on the United States and attempted to do her harm. No matter what the basis of the original grievances, flying that flag now suggests a willingness to rebel against the United States of America, and suggests a certain disloyalty towards our nation. As such it is a treasonous act and one to be held in contempt. The symbols of the defeated CSA should be relegated to museums for future generations to learn about, and they should be retired from active use. Private use is a matter of free speech and should be protected, but public use by a government should be considered a high crime against our Union.

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 30 weeks ago, 12:48 PM

coldfront

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true meaning

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 30 weeks ago, 12:51 PM

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Good summation on this

Good summation on this particular topic, thanks coldfront

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 12:53 PM

Ebear

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lmao

the mexican flag is cooler

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 12:56 PM

reysanz630

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lol

is true the mexican flag is cooler with those colors......viva pancho villa

Luis sanz
5 years 30 weeks ago, 12:58 PM

Ebear

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si

and george lopez too

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 12:54 PM

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rebel flag

i aint racist, but i aint taking off the rebel flag hanging in my house.

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 12:55 PM

Ebear

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ok

put it next to a mexican flag.....looks colorful

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 12:58 PM

raffycanlas

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no

im not trying to offend mexicans like you but, your flag needs to stay in mexico.

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:01 PM

Ebear

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lol

pretty soon this will be mexico again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! viva zapata!!!!!!

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 12:57 PM

Papasan

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I won't remove my Jolly Roger flag either! Arrrrrg!

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 12:57 PM

Anonymous

is biased obama bullshit anyway!racism?he is arab not african black,so his mush mouth bullshit dont even apply.

5 years 30 weeks ago, 12:57 PM

Ebear

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lol

i've got a feliz Jorge

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 12:58 PM

Papasan

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Arrrrrg!

Arrrrrg!

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:00 PM

Ebear

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ayyyiayyyyyiiay

ayyyiayyyyyiiay

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:01 PM

coldfront

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greasy

I had to include that last paragraph just to show our new leaders ingnorance.

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:02 PM

Ebear

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his wife

has allot of junk in her trunk........boing!!!!!

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:02 PM

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More cool!

It is not "cooler" It looks like a cheap knockoff of the Italian Flag. Or any other number of Eurotrash flags. Welcome to the Estates de Unitos. Stars and Stripes in our minds, Stars and Bars in our hearts. It's our inhereint right to mistrust and question all that any form of our government tries to tell us. Be it from the local levels all the way to the Feds. We vote them in because they say they think like we think, it however almost always changes once their butt hits that seat behind some big wooden desk. Theres that saying, "Absolute power corrupts absolutely." Well a little power I believe does the same thing to most people.

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." Kevin Spacey: (The Usual Suspects)
5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:04 PM

Ebear

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ok

soon burritos will replace hot-dogs and paletas will replace apple-pie....

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:06 PM

undeniable

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It bugs me, everytime I hear it I think that jackass just ordered a donkey!

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." Kevin Spacey: (The Usual Suspects)
5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:19 PM

Ebear

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lol

thats pretty much what it means...in mexico burritos are pretty small. the monsters sold here a quadruple the size

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:31 PM

undeniable

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ebear, thanks

Thanks, now I won't make fun of them anymore, although they won't get an apology from me either.

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:24 PM

coldfront

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burrito

burro + ito = little burro ( burrito )

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:27 PM

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ok

They already do in cal i want out-i have Lived here for 25 years came out here for a job,% more years I am going home to Kentucky!!!!!

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:33 PM

undeniable

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Too long in Ca.

I lived there for 28 years. Thats how old I was when I left. I was 5th generation born there too. Just couldn't take the B.S. any longer.

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:37 PM

reysanz630

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ok

they lived there way before you. cal was part of mexico until a stupid presidente sold out cal. to the gringos for silver

Luis sanz
5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:42 PM

Ebear

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YEAH

AND THE ONLY GAVE US ONE SET OF JUMPER CABLES, SO ALLOT OF US BROKE DOWN AND HAD TO STAY.

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:58 PM

undeniable

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Then there was a revolution and it bacame part of Mexico. Then there was another revolution and it was it's own independant nation. Then the U.S.A. invaded and forced Ca. to join the Union. Thats the history I know, and Mexicans can't claim it as theirs first. It was full of local tribes before all of that ever happened, so I guess posession is 9-10ths of the law in this case.

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." Kevin Spacey: (The Usual Suspects)
5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:02 PM

Papasan

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Arrrrrg!

Arrrrrg!

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:07 PM

coldfront

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they are just mad beacuase they cant have barbeques. the beans fall through the grill

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:09 PM

undeniable

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Hot plates

I think thats why almost every barbeque comes with a griddle now. I could be wrong though.

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3 years 24 weeks ago, 3:43 PM

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funny

Now that's funny I dont' care who you are!!

5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:08 PM

raffycanlas

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speaking of...

speaking of obama and mexico, if i ever see obama in person, i will turn him into a mexican combo platter.

I'm just another damn yankee with a loaded gun looking for some fun!
5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:11 PM

raffycanlas

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tennessee barbecue

best barbecue is from tennessee, mexicans cant grill!

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:12 PM

coldfront

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hot plates, figures cant leave anyone out

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:22 PM

Ebear

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hmmmmmmmmmm

im kinda partial to hawaiian bbq's roasted pig is the shizzle.its funny though when ever i used to have a taste for a burrito the mexican resteraunts were always packed with white people.........hhmm

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:29 PM

reysanz630

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lol

that`s true, my friend has a mexican rest. and you only seen white and they enjoy la pinga del burrito

Luis sanz
5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:32 PM

Ebear

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lol

oh yeah they love that!!

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:26 PM

coldfront

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hell yeah

bro, I love mexican food. I'm at the local resturant here like 3 times a week.

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:28 PM

Ebear

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there is a secret

we sprinkle heroin in it so you become addicted....

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:30 PM

raffycanlas

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mexifoods

yall ever had chile relleno? lol its so good!

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:34 PM

Ebear

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dude

my mother makes the best on the planet......she makes them too ways..hot and MOTHER FUCKER!!THIS IS HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:38 PM

raffycanlas

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haha ebear

thats it, after work(yes im working right now and im at gunslot) im going to the local mexican restaurant, order me a corona and a grande combo.

I'm just another damn yankee with a loaded gun looking for some fun!
5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:40 PM

Ebear

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GO GOR IT

IM OFF TODAY.......BUT GO TO A GOOD RESTERAUNT, NOT TACO BELL

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:41 PM

raffycanlas

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lol ebear

we have an authentic mexican restaurant here, lol, the mexiacan restaurant in your area, do they give you free nachos? lol

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:44 PM

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YOU KNOW IT

FRESH MADE TORTILLAS MADE RIGHT INFRONT OF YOU........FUCK IT ....NOW IM GOING TOO..........DON'T TELL THE WIFE..I JUST HAD HEART SURGERY NOT TO LONG AGO AND SHE'SS ON ME LIKE FLIES ON SHIT!!

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 1:48 PM

raffycanlas

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haha dude!

it aitn gonna kill you, its not fast food haha

I'm just another damn yankee with a loaded gun looking for some fun!
5 years 30 weeks ago, 2:26 PM

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Taco Bell is authentic

I saw a mexican-looking guy working in Taco Bell, so it is authentic mexican-looking food. Even if it's not, Taco Bell is better than any of that Mexican crap anyway.

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 2:42 PM

undeniable

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Taco Bell, authentic?

Instead of making a run for the border, everytime I eat Taco Bell I make a run for the bathroom. I'll take a nice sit down place over that crap anytime.

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 4:18 PM

Ebear

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lol

well then you and taco bell are made for each other

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 4:07 PM

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Just come to Arizona

the Mexican food here sucks for the most part. I had much better Mex food in California. We do have LaParillai Suiza rest. here and the food is Mexico City Style, not bordertown slop & frijoles.

5 years 30 weeks ago, 4:26 PM

Ebear

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speaking of Arizona,

Sam is there a big gunsmithing school in Prescot?

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 4:34 PM

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ebear yes to Prescott

Here is their URL, it is thru Yavapai College. Just show them your bean singed shorts and chu go for free... LOL

http://www.gunsmithing.org/

5 years 30 weeks ago, 4:29 PM

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I really don't know

but I will find out for you. Ruger has a factory there so it makes sense.

5 years 30 weeks ago, 4:39 PM

Ebear

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i heard

that, you can get a scholorship from the NRA, FOR ALL OF YOU YOUNG STUDS OUT THERE WHO LOVE GUNS AND HAVE'NT FIGURED OUT WHAT YOU WANT TO DO IN LIFE. wITH THE GUN BOOM GOING ON , IT MIGHT BE A GOOD CAREER.

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 8:24 PM

undeniable

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Gunsmithing school

I think I remember hearing something about a gunsmithing school in Prescott. I do know that there is,or atleast it used to be, a good gunsmithing school at Lassen community college in Susanville Ca.

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5 years 30 weeks ago, 9:21 PM

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My high school flag had a falcon on the stars and bars. Never really cared back then. They obviously changed it in the last 20 years. People need to get some thicker skin.

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3 years 25 weeks ago, 2:09 PM

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fly with pride

the confederacy was about independence NOT treason,about new idealisms NOT slavery.Politicians need to study up on their history,and minorities need to stop using as a crutch,also racists group to stop dragging it through the mud. if you listen to fools...the mob rules!

3 years 24 weeks ago, 3:46 PM

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coldfront wrote:
I’ve known many people who have flown the Battle Flag, and none of them are racist. The entire State of Mississippi has been flying it over all of their government buildings since 1894. Texas flies the Stars and Bars at every governmental building as well (along with the other five flags to have flown over Texas). The reason behind the desire to honor symbols of the Confederacy is not racism. It instead stems from a regional identity and the noble notions of state sovereignty. These feelings of regional unity are only strengthened by the poor economic situation in many Southern states, and the sense they have that they suffer in poverty while the Northern states enjoy prosperity. It is understandable as well, only one Southern state makes the top ten ranks for average personal income, and then only comes in at 9th. Meanwhile, half of the states in the lowest ten ranks of personal income are in the South. Add to this economic stagnation and decay and you have a recipe for regional resentment.

The false notion that the Battle Flag must be a racist symbol is born of the mistaken belief that the Civil War was about slavery. This bit of propaganda has been repeated ever since President Lincoln and his political allies decided to “free the slaves” (in actuality Lincoln only freed those slaves in the Confederacy, slaves in Union states such as Maryland and West Virginia remained slaves). The truth, however, is plain to anyone who wishes to delve into the history, and the proof lies in the proposed Corwin Amendment of 1861. This amendment was proposed by Congressman Thomas Corwin (R) from Ohio and stated,

No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State.

Prior to his election, Lincoln had voiced his support of the amendment. Like many politicians of his time, Lincoln believed in the preservation of the Union beyond all else. When the Bill was brought before the House seven states had already formally left the Union (Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Georgia, Florida, and South Carolina) never the less the bill passed 133-65 and was forwarded to the Senate. In March of 1861 the Senate approved the bill 24-12. Both of these votes were from a Northern majority, seeing as most of the South had already left. Both the outgoing President, James Buchanan, and the newly elected Abraham Lincoln publicly endorsed the amendment. In fact, during Lincoln’s inaugural address he had this to say of the Corwin Amendment,

I understand a proposed amendment to the Constitution–which amendment, however, I have not seen–has passed Congress, to the effect that the Federal Government shall never interfere with the domestic institutions of the States, including that of persons held to service. To avoid misconstruction of what I have said, I depart from my purpose not to speak of particular amendments so far as to say that, holding such a provision to now be implied Constitutional law, I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable.1

The amendment went on to be ratified by Ohio, Maryland, and then Illinois before the outbreak of the Civil War halted the process of adopting the new amendment. Now ask yourself, if the Civil War was really about slavery why didn’t the Corwin Amendment, already passed by the Federal Legislature and well on its way to ratification (given the three free states which had ratified it, and the 15 slave states which would as well, only four more states would have needed to ratify it), end the conflict? The Northern states had already compromised on slavery. The truth is that the Civil War was not about slavery, it just became popular to create propaganda to make it seem so because it gave the Union an image of moral superiority.

Despite these facts, I still oppose the use of the Confederate Flag and applaud Obama’s statement. Not because the flag is racist, but because flying it, especially on government property, is treason. The Confederate flag represents a nation which declared open war on the United States and attempted to do her harm. No matter what the basis of the original grievances, flying that flag now suggests a willingness to rebel against the United States of America, and suggests a certain disloyalty towards our nation. As such it is a treasonous act and one to be held in contempt. The symbols of the defeated CSA should be relegated to museums for future generations to learn about, and they should be retired from active use. Private use is a matter of free speech and should be protected, but public use by a government should be considered a high crime against our Union.

This started out on a very good note, very informative and correct. HOW and WHY did people start talking about the Mexican Flag??? Who cares ... your flag is nice... our flag is nice.. you will NOT take over American not now or ever. I have told people for many years, the conferate flag is NOT HATRED ITS HISTORY!!!

3 years 24 weeks ago, 5:58 PM

dockit

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Yes after reading coldfronts comment I see and removed my statement.

I intend to live forever, or die trying. It Could Be that the Purpose of Your Life is Only to Serve as a Warning to Others. Join the Army, meet interesting people, kill them. All those who believe in psychokinesis raise my hand.
3 years 24 weeks ago, 4:13 PM

Reaper308

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Rank:
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dockit

most of Mesnafugal@aol.com's post was written by Coldfront up top. Look at the original post. Mesnafugal@aol.com just got the quotes wrong. I think coldfront copied and pasted it from another source.

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."

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