Forums / Gun Discussion / Is This a Conspiracy...............??

3 years 8 weeks ago, 11:09 AM

LLE

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Folks--over the course of maybe 65 years+ of gun ownership, hunting, shooting smallbore competition, military qualifying. CAS,etc, I managed to own firearms manufactured by most of the big names. I have many friends who have also. We never BS each other about the goodness or the not so goodness of any of our experience with our guns, and we have saved each other from making some very bad choices. [ We have an unwritten rule that overblown brand/model loyalty does not do anyone any good]. I trust my friends here, and I want to suggest something, that maybe you can help me with.

I have never owned or shot any firearm made either in Brazil or the USA/Miami by Taurus. Everytime I look at the various models/specs they offer, I am somewhat impressed, but I am aware of the hype they put out, just like all other manufacturers do. I have handled some of their recent models, and find them to be well-built, especially considering their prices. So, I recently undertook an unscientific analysis of detailed reviews both by my no BS friends, and reviews that can be found on the internet. What I found was very interesting. NOT ONE of my many friends who own multiple Taurus firearms, gave me anything but great satisfaction with them, including reliability, durability and accuracy. But when I read reviews on the internet, on the same models, the reviews almost always are approximately 50% good and 50% bad. I kept on keeping on with this study, and then just began to read reviews for models not owned by my friends. You guessed it--there are almost always about 50% good and 50% bad.

I realize the sample from my friends is small, and the review samples on the internet are larger. I am wondering if the internet reviews may be rigged by unscrupulous competitors, or whether Taurus' internal QC and repair service may be as poor as some of the bad reviews might make you concude.

I'd really like to hear from you guys, whether you have been or are present Taurus owners, or not. But please, if you are going to present "hearsay"--give us some reasonable detail of the case!!

THANKS a BUNCH..................

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
3 years 8 weeks ago, 11:31 AM

clintlebo

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PT-99

LLE,
I owned a PT-99 back in the 1990's. It was a good pistol and I shot it a lot. Through the almost constant use of the firearm, I broke one of the locking lugs that was attached to the barrel (it is how they manufactured it at the time). I called them and they sent me a replacement with no questions asked. I give Taurus an 8 out of ten for that weapon and a 10/10 for their customer service at that time. I have not had any dealings with them since, so I do not know if their policies or productions has changed.

clint

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin & Hobbes)
3 years 8 weeks ago, 3:55 PM

Ishootdaily

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I've shot the semi-autos listed above quiet often and owned the Taurus 24/7 OSS .45 JPC. I did not ever have any issues with any of them in the least.

I have shot the 351 22 mag revolver without issue along with their version of the 686 in 357 and the Raging BULL .44 magnum without any issues. They shot fine and are almost direct knock offs of S&W revolvers.

Taurus made Beretta 92FS pistols under contract for Beretta for years without any problems.

The only one I have run into issues with is a friends Tracker 22 .lr which the finish flaked off of binding up the wheel and interfering with the Lifter bar. Took a brush to the wheel and it functions fine after that.

Taurus has some issue years ago and that seems to have stuck with them.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 8 weeks ago, 6:31 PM

LLE

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Good reports. I had no idea they contracted with Beretta--that impresses me.
Let's hear some more!!

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
3 years 8 weeks ago, 10:04 PM

luckybychoice

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i really want

to like Taurus,then i read stuff like this... http://www.mhhlaw.net/gun-accidents-and-liability.php

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
3 years 8 weeks ago, 10:53 PM

Ironmike15

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like away LBC

Very true. I believe they have improved the pistol from the beretta design. Well I started buying them because they were cheaper then smiths and looked better than rugers at least to me. I bought them later because they had lots of the pistols I wanted in the calibers I wanted. I have or have had the 85 UL, 92, raging hornet, and milenium. No problems to report. I have not shot the autos much but I have shot the revolvers a lot. Very nice. The hornet was pretty awesome. I regret selling it. They offer a dependable nice looking accurate pistol for the money. There are lots of people who want a pistol but can't fork over 1000 to 3000 dollars on it. Taurus will give those folks a nice dependable pistol for a very reasonable price. There are some firearms that give you more than you pay for.

3 years 8 weeks ago, 10:58 PM

Ironmike15

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taurus

I don't know why there are so many people that don't like them. I guess their experience has been different then mine

3 years 8 weeks ago, 11:56 PM

Ishootdaily

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Ruger SR9, Walther/S&E PPK, and many that are carried in condition two. The Colt series 80 actually was redesigned with a firing pin block to prevent that from happening.

There have been lawsuits against Glock, S&W, Ruger, Springfield, hell, every single manufacture has been sued for an AD with injuries.

Personally I do not care for the Millennium but it shoots and functions as advertised. I've also seen them dropped onto the concrete floor at the ranhe while loaded and not go off. Which I would think would be considered a slam fire. If it fired when dropped, why didn't it fire upon chambering a round?

One list of Pistol recalls and the reason for them. http://www.firearmsid.com/Recalls/Firearm%20Recall%20Index.htm

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 7 weeks ago, 10:25 AM

Saint J.M. Browning

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I have the 4410 (The Judge), and I am happy with it. It is not great in terms of accuracy, but it for my purposes, it does what I want it to as well as I can expect. I keep it in my car when I'm driving and when I'm in the country, I use it as a snake gun. Plus, it is just plain fun at the range. I like to load a mixed cylinder and see/feel the different results.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 7 weeks ago, 6:18 PM

LLE

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I am going to take a flying leap and buy a Taurus 709 Slim. I compared it with several other 9mms, of the same size, shape, features and operating characteristics--especially the Ruger LC9. For the price, and the apparent build quality, I fail to see how anything anywhere near the price point can beat that 709. We will see--but I am betting on the come--I'm betting it is going to be a winner for me shooting-wise and reliability-wise and it certainly looks like it is going to be very easy to carry. Time will tell............Thanks, again.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
3 years 6 weeks ago, 3:25 PM

LLE

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LLE wrote:
I am going to take a flying leap and buy a Taurus 709 Slim. I compared it with several other 9mms, of the same size, shape, features and operating characteristics--especially the Ruger LC9. For the price, and the apparent build quality, I fail to see how anything anywhere near the price point can beat that 709. We will see--but I am betting on the come--I'm betting it is going to be a winner for me shooting-wise and reliability-wise and it certainly looks like it is going to be very easy to carry. Time will tell............Thanks, again.

Brought the new baby home, disassembled it, scrubbed all the congealed grease crud off, dosed it with Hoppe's and a brush down, and then lightly lubed it. First range test was superb. It not only shot accurately out to 15 meters, but also ate whatever mixture of ammo I fed it without a burp in 200 rounds. The sight had to be adjusted [ shooting low], but that was it. Recoil was remarkably low, so this baby would probably be good for any women that want to transition to 9mm, without carrying a big load. I temporarily used my Glock all purpose [very cheap] holster which seems to fit every pistol I try in it. This 709 is a very light carry, and very easy to conceal. Tactical "presentation" from a concealed carry position was smooth and easy. This pistol has a frame safety in the usual place, but also has a Glock-like trigger safety design, so you can run it just like a Glock, or if that is too scarey, use the frame safety also. So, that's the story so far. I am very pleased, and will report further, including how my wife likes it.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
3 years 5 weeks ago, 4:21 PM

LLE

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This 709 Slim continues to amaze. After a thorough cleaning and light lube, ran another 100 rounds through. Absolutely flawless performance, and the accuracy, especially at 15 meters was surprising. Wife liked it, but not as well as her S&W M&P Compact 9, or our Walther PK 380 [both of which are smooth as a baby's bottom]. I am glad to see Taurus producing good stuff at very competitive prices. If I were to make a recommendation, it would be to read the reviews carefully, and take a 50% negative with a grain of salt.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
3 years 5 weeks ago, 4:29 PM

Vaquero

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709 outing

Thank you for the update.

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
3 years 5 weeks ago, 4:46 PM

LLE

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for the interest.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
3 years 5 weeks ago, 5:36 PM

Ishootdaily

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Good read LLE

I've see a few of the customers at the range that have them and a couple of firends that do also and they love them one and all. The 738 has been doing very well also for those that desire a pocket pistol, though polishing the ramp is a good idea after breaking it in.

738
709
740
soon to come? 745

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 5 weeks ago, 7:36 AM

Saint J.M. Browning

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709 comparisons

Well, against the S&W and the Walther, those are some pretty big shoes to fill, so if it comes close, it's doing pretty good.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 5 weeks ago, 4:41 PM

LLE

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Based upon the performance of the 709 Slim, I would not hesitate to buy a 740 Slim--and I think winning the 2011 NRA Award probably was justified. I will tell you a story about the 738. My wife just had to have one in pink, with a stainless slide. I told her of the classic troubles reported, and also the apparent good fixes. She decided it would be a good everyday carry, so we added one to the arsenal. We compared it side by side with the Ruger LCP, and the 738 was more accurate and also more comfortable to shoot. But alas!! We had the reported feed problem, and it absolutely would not cycle HP defensive rounds. I called Taurus Customer Service to see if the reviews of terrible customer treatment might be true. NO WAY!! Rep asked the problem and then said, I am ordering a UPS pickup for you "tomorrow"--no cost. We will try to get it back to you ASAP. While the problem is annoying, I couldn't ask for better service. Waiting for the return now.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
3 years 5 weeks ago, 8:19 PM

Ishootdaily

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LLE, Warranty Work

You know it is possibly the oddest thing when you consider it.

Taurus, KelTech, HighPoint, the three lowest cost firearms are the ones who don't give you a load of crap for any reason when your weapon is screwing up.

I'm sure many will see it as them admitting a sub standard design and or product. But to me it shows that they are really trying to make a product they will stand behind that anyone can afford.

Something you might try in the 738 would be Power Ball. It should feed just fine and is a devastating round even with the 70 grain 9mm short moving at 1100 fps.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/15496-5.html

This is one of the 380 rounds we suggest because it will always feed excluding user error by breaking the wrist allowing the inertia to be bled off of the slide.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 5 weeks ago, 8:27 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

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You don't hear the .380 being referred to that much these days. This is probably the most named cartridge.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 5 weeks ago, 8:30 PM

Ishootdaily

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.380 ACP

Mr. Browning designed the round and everyone thinks it is from Europe. Some will actually argue with you about it....

boggling

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 5 weeks ago, 8:34 PM

Ishootdaily

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.38 ACP

I've held a 1902 .38 ACP Semi Auto which is in the blood lines leading up to the 1911.

Though eventually the .38 ACP ended up becoming the .38 Super later in years. I still want to shoot the damn thing but my friend who owns it hasn't decided if he wants to shoot it. Pistol is in fantastic condition and should be just fine, but, he gets weird with his Military Collector weapons.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 5 weeks ago, 8:40 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

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Colt 1902

Oh, I would love one of those. That and a 1908 Pocket .380ACP. Yeah, that would be torture being teased about whether you get to shoot it or not.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 5 weeks ago, 9:03 PM

Ishootdaily

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Hard to find those that someone hasn't screwed up by trying to refinish it. See then down here quiet often, but every one has had someone try and re-blue it themselves or some other coating they messed up.

Years back there was a guy who took a 1911 and cut it up and made a exact copy of the 1903 Colt Pocket 380. I mean it was sweet, but $$$, well worth it for whom ever owns it.

I think it was Hand Loader magazine or Handgunner, one or the other...

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 5 weeks ago, 10:09 AM

Saint J.M. Browning

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1908 finish

I wouldn't mind, especially if I could pick it up cheap. I'd take it to a gunsmith, have him strip it and refinish it. Not too concerned with the collectability. Not as far as trying to making a profit, anyway. Just want a shooter. And, well you know how I feel about Browning's designs.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 5 weeks ago, 11:32 AM

Ishootdaily

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SJMB

the thing is, with some finishes the cracks and scratches/gouges are covered up so you can't tell exactly what your getting until after you strip it.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 5 weeks ago, 11:48 AM

Saint J.M. Browning

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Hmm, good point

See, you do learn something new everyday.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 5 weeks ago, 10:03 AM

LLE

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Corbon has a good reputation, so I will give them a try. They seem a little pricey, compared with Hornady Critical Defense, and I expect the 738 will cycle just about anything when it comes home from South Florida, but I will try the Power Balls. Thanks again.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
3 years 5 weeks ago, 10:12 AM

Saint J.M. Browning

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Critical defence

Good point, LLE. I've read<\i> good things about Hornady's offering. Esp. with the .380. I don't have any personal experience with it, though. What about you, ISD? Have you use this cartridge? If so, are they up to the marketing hype?

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 5 weeks ago, 11:09 AM

Ishootdaily

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Truth be told

everyone hypes their products, But it performs very well. Corbon Power Ball has a round ball in the hollow point and will allow it to feed in autos which don't like hollow points. It also has the added benefit of the ball being forced into the round causing explosive expansion.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 7 weeks ago, 6:39 PM

ronin1604

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LLE

I really liked my PT-709 slim..... till it blew up in my boss's hand. :) HOWEVER, to be fair to the gun, turns out my boss got some "special" rounds from a "buddy". And the pistol took the brunt of the force, and he still has all his fingers. I sent the gun back to Taurus, the are standing behind there warrenty to repair or replace it for me. I have a few Taurus pistols. All recieve a thumbs up.

__________________ "...He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one." - Jesus, Luke 22:36
3 years 7 weeks ago, 2:12 PM

LLE

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input. Your boss is a lucky, albeit not too smart, shooter.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
3 years 7 weeks ago, 7:09 PM

Bum Fuzzled

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Taurus

I have never had any major problems with any Taurus I have owned. As a dealer I have shot many of the models and been pleased with most all of them. Nothing to say really bad about them but much to say good about them.
The revolvers are top notch. The finishes may not be the best in the world. But they function smoothly and reliably and are very accurate. As self defense guns go, the 85,351 are 2 of the best. Very reasonable prices and no bad guy is going to ask if it's a S&W or Colt or Taurus or care.
As far as the semi auto's go I haven't shot any I didn't like in the standard calibers. Not a fan of the dainty size 22 or 25's. Some I liked a lot more than others but mainly due to fit. Some just fit way better than others.
No one make of gun has escaped malfunctions or misfortunes. I had a Colt King Cobra that was nothing but pure junk. Shiny as all hell. But pure junk. I have a Heritage Rough Rider I don't think any Ruger single-six can match. Sometimes you get lucky and get the best off the line and once in a while you get one that the new guy made all by himself.
Most customers that say Taurus are no good have never owned a Taurus or shot one. They always say their friend or uncle or cousin had one and it couldn't hit the side of a barn. Probably because said friend couldn't shoot in a lot of cases.
Not saying people haven't had legit complaints against them. But I have sent 2 Colts and a Smith back to the factory in my time after very few rounds and have never sent a Taurus back after thousands and thousands. My guns. Not customer guns. You don't want to know that ratio.
But the only Taurus' I have sent back in the last year have been the 738 .380 Kel Tec clones. Sent 3 back since January.

3 years 7 weeks ago, 2:14 PM

LLE

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with the 738s, since my wife seems to be in love with the pink-colored model. I thank you for your input, also.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
3 years 7 weeks ago, 7:12 PM

tallguy007

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sweet

never shot one let us know how u love it.TY

DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR
3 years 7 weeks ago, 4:25 PM

Bum Fuzzled

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738

LLE,
Feeding problems when they are fresh out of the box. They feed RN just fine but won't budge on a HP. Taurus polished the ramps and fired them and sent them back and no problems afterwards. You could bump the slide when it locked open on a HP and fire. But sometimes it would still lock open on following rounds. Probably could have been shot more and worked out but customers wanted them sent back. They came back quickly. Within 3 weeks of shipping out they were back.

3 years 7 weeks ago, 10:31 AM

LLE

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I think this one is still going to be added to the arsenal!! I will be sure to try some HP's, and remember the ramp polishing. {had a lot of practice on a LLama 380 that hated defensive rounds}

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
3 years 5 weeks ago, 11:27 AM

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Worlds Biggest Handgun

Is gonna be a Taurus anyone see it at shot show?
the 28 guage revolver

But seriously Taurus set a precedent in the USA by offering a 100% warranty for their firearms
Which until then was only offered by a select few
This made quite a few manufacturers scramble in order to keep up

unfortunately in my opinion, with such a warranty in place, there isn't the need to advance the quality control
which leads to my taurus

PT 101
Everything would of been fine had I chosen fixed sights

live and learn I guess
right out of the box with feeding problems
gun came with 2 clips, 1 good,1 bad
got ramp job
then the adjustable site pin hole broke
warranty put on new slide with a crooked pin hole
so it went back again
the next slide not much better so I gave up with factory and had smith solder flap over site to stop it from canting when raised
Then I gave the gun away

When I think about this gun, I always think about the story of the Motorola phone rep out of mexico.
Ever hear that one?

3 years 5 weeks ago, 6:41 AM

Saint J.M. Browning

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The russians

Made a pistol that shoots 12ga. shells. I'm not saying it's good. Just that they did.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 5 weeks ago, 7:27 PM

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Update..

Just got my PT 709 that blew out back. Taurus sent me a new pistol. Ran 100 rounds through it sat, no issues. Took her home, cleaned the gun butter that the factory uses off (yes, I fired straight out of the box after checking bore was clear) and fired anouther 100 rounds trough it. Not a single malfunction. I'm happy!

__________________ "...He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one." - Jesus, Luke 22:36
3 years 5 weeks ago, 6:03 AM

TXLUCKYGUY

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1. ISD, I'd be interested in hearing details about Taurus producing M9 or 92FS pistols for Beretta; if this is so I've never heard of it. I do know that they have produced licensed copies and used machinery/setups previously used by Beretta, but that's a ways off from producing a product for another company. Beretta is famous for spitswapping with it's subsidiaries and partners (Stoeger {Cougar}, Benelli {1201}, Uberti {Stampede}, et al) but I've never heard of them making the 92FS or M9/M9A1.

2. I can't think of any way that Taurus has improved upon the Beretta 92FS product (not a fav design of mine). Their Beretta-clone (frame mounted safety) is from an older Beretta design, one that was regurgitated by Beretta in their 92/96 Combat Competition, Steel I, and Billenium pistols.

3. I've owned a few Taurus revolvers and pistols (none currently), and shot dozens more as rentals, fixes in my arms room at room, and training officers who've carried them as backups. I rate the general quality and reliability of Taurus firearms well below Glock, Beretta, SIG, S&W and some other makers. I've seen a higher rate of small parts breakage (screws, pins, springs), reliability issues and other issues with the Taurus brand than many of their competitors. Their fit and finish is also generally below that of the aforementioned brands' competing products.

4. As far as the "not made here" issue, Brazil produces some excellent firearms components and decent ammunition. IMBEL makes well regarded FAL components, and produces frame for Springfield Armory (SA pistols at or above the TRP pricepoint have the IMBEL markings removed if memory serves).

5. I regard the Judge idea as complete clown shoes....but S&W is making something similar now, so apparently the snake-oil of .410 as a defensive handgun cartridge is a good seller.

3 years 4 weeks ago, 11:32 AM

Ishootdaily

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TXLUCKYGUY wrote:
1. ISD, I'd be interested in hearing details about Taurus producing M9 or 92FS pistols for Beretta; if this is so I've never heard of it. I do know that they have produced licensed copies and used machinery/setups previously used by Beretta, but that's a ways off from producing a product for another company. Beretta is famous for spitswapping with it's subsidiaries and partners (Stoeger {Cougar}, Benelli {1201}, Uberti {Stampede}, et al) but I've never heard of them making the 92FS or M9/M9A1.

Your right the Taurus plant in Brazil was sold to Taurus after the contract ran out, they made the PT92 off ot the original 92 design.

I had to ask Ed about this, the reason I was thinking it was under contract was from talking with someone who owns a Beretta 92 stamped "Made in Brazil" and in discussing it was told that all the Machinists, Tooling, Equipment and stock was left as part of the contract that they had with the Brazilian Government. Taurus was who bought it and continued to produce the pistols for a time.

I humbly retract my statement and stand corrected...

The French and the Turks also produce(d) copies of the 92 which see service. From checking into it further on line.

I was wrong about it, but it does not detract from Taurus' ability to produce a quality fire arm at a reasonable price in the least.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 4 weeks ago, 11:33 AM

Ishootdaily

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so basically you say piss on Taurus.

ok

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 4 weeks ago, 2:58 PM

ronin1604

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I currently own 5 taurus firearms... And with the exception of the PT 709 that recieved a hot load and went BOOM, all have performed flawlessly... I'm not argueing with your experience, I only have the knowledge of the 5 I own and 1 (24/7) that a friend of mine purchased. But all have performed well, and when they didn't were quickly replaced with ones that did. Doesn't this say something? Or have I just been really lucky? And as to the Judge, I do own one, and would NEVER use as a self defense pistol except when nothing else is avalible. I suppose with .45LC rounds it's good enough, but It is HUGE! I would rather have my trusty 1911.

__________________ "...He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one." - Jesus, Luke 22:36
3 years 4 weeks ago, 3:12 PM

TXLUCKYGUY

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nah

Piss on? Nahh. Other brands yes but not Taurus. I've never seen a Taurus do anything unsafe, except for one of their .357s that had a bent barrel (visibly so)....99% sure that was the result of shadetree gunsmithing.

Taurus guns simply have a higher rate of failure, require more PM and attention to ammo, and have a noticeably lower standard of fit/finish than some other brands in my experience...doesn't mean they are unsafe or inadequate. Better than a Lorcin, Raven, Jennings, and in many instances better than competing products from Ruger or KelTec. IMHO their 92-clone thumbsafety is where Beretta should've left it (the slide mounted safety is one of my dislikes about the 92/96F-series guns), and their Titanium Tracker models are very underrated IMHO as trail guns.

Some brands are just now optimal or the best a person can purchase. Example...I routinely carry a Kel-Tec P3AT in situations where another firearm cannot be efficiently concealed (gym, etc.). I know full well that the KT will not perform to the standards of a SIG P232, Glock 26, SW 642 or other pocketrocket...as a matter of fact I've shot about 350rds through it with no probs. I realize that it is not a top-quality firearm, and do not expect it to perform as such. It is better than a pointy stick... if I could afford a Rohrbaugh (and the Rohrbaugh had a pocket clip and was as light as the KT) I'd carry one, but it's still a tiny little poodlegun that requires special attention to work right. Were I able to carry a G19 or SW642, I'd be closer that ideal of a 100% reliable, adequately powerful CCW gun.

The 4" 5-shot Taurus .44 Special I owned was my first bigbore (.357+) revolver, and was a great shooter. 1 or 2 screws would back out after 20rds or so, so it was never a primary carry/duty/defensive gun for me. I've seen the same issue with other Taurus wheelguns.

Taurus is just not a top-tier primary social gun for me. Every manufacturer makes turds now and then (Colt All American 2000, S&W Smegma, et al)... and even welll-vetted products suffer from poor logistics and departures from original specs (shitty 92F mags, SIGs decocker recall, Glock 19s early failures for NYPD, Beretta 96 Inox locking block failures at the 1500rd mark, etc.). BUT, the majority of the models offered to military and LE by SIG, Colt, H&K, Beretta, and Glock do perform consistently at the level expected of a critical-use gun. Assuming that these products meet the mission requirements of a CCW or bedside gun, it to these products that I've always recommend folks turn when purchasing a killing tool.

Now if someone will just make a legal, zero-recoil, rustproof .40cal+ suppressed 6 shot railgun that will fit in the palm of my hand I'll be a happy camper.

ISD I will bet that the Brazil-marked Beretta you describe would have serious value to some collectors...I was a Beretta nut for many years; visited their great store here in Dallas, competed with 'em, and it's kinda like Colt...."people pay for the pony". Well they'll also pay a lot for the Beretta logo!

Lastly, the .45LC is a very well-proven and sometimes ignored social cartridge...with modern loads like the Hornady CD, CorBon, Gold Dot, etc. it is serious medicine for 2-legger and loaded properly for 4-leggers too. Big and bulky but big smokin' holes in the bad guy always come at a price of one sort or another.

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