Forums / Political & Legal / Corruption, Idiocy and Cover-up: The Penn State University Debacle

2 years 50 weeks ago, 4:32 PM

LLE

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My friends; With everything this country is facing, at present, we should be learning something valuable from the Penn State U. debacle. Perhaps you have read about it or seen the coverage on TV, and you have figuratively shrugged your shoulders, thrown up your hands, and said something like, "so what's new?" I cannot sit here and get myself to believe this case is just an isolated "problem" for PSU. No--It is a problem for all of us who consider ourselves concerned citizens of the USA. I am not going to moralize, look down my nose, or adopt a "holier than thou" attitude. I consider you all to be my friends, and I consider you to be intelligent and forthright thinkers, as well as patriots of the USA. I believe we must all be concerned about the larger aspects and meaning of this case, as opposed to looking at it as some relatively insignificant occurrence in some little corner of the State of Pennsylvania.

This case reflects a continuing predisposition for those in positions of power and authority to calculate they "can get away with it".....regardless of what the "IT" is. This is going on all around us at the corporate level, the local government level, the state government level, and of course the federal government level. Beyond that--there is what I call "idiocy" and "cover-up". These two behaviors are usually linked together. Example: Obama's Attorney General testifying that "Fast and Furious" is not HIS responsibility, but actually is Congress's responsibility.

The details of the PSU case teach us the same lessons: People in authority positions who behaved idiotcally--not even apparently KNOWING that lawfully they are "mandatory reporters" under State and Federal law {most especially see Child Protective Services statute--23 Pa.C.S. section 6311, and federal regulations governing organizations who receive federal funds.} OR-- perhaps KNOWING the regs and deliberately stonewalling to "protect" the good name of PSU.

Now we are treated to the controversy over the firing of the PSU president, and the wholly worshipped and esteemed football coach. My friends--be it ethics, morals or law, the bottom line is the following:
The graduate assistant coach who OBSERVED inappropriate sexual contact with a minor male by the Defensive Coordinator, had the affirmative DUTY to report this, immediately to law enforcement--NOT to his boss. He may also have had the duty to intervene, because, he could have subdued the assailant, without fear of his life or great personal injury. For those who say, the graduate assistant coach did not know of this duty, remember that old saying about ignorance of the law.
The head coach who received this so-called [by some] hearsay report from the graduate assistant, had an immediate affirmative duty to report this to law enforcement, NOT to his boss. Hearsay at that point, would be irrelevant, and the police would be vitally concerned with immediately getting the report directly from the graduate assistant coach.
The other "actors" up the line were executives who knew or should have known their responsibilities under law, as "mandatory reporters". They did NOT act in accordance with law.
And so, my friends, we are continuing to see a small, but accurate model of the behaviors that seem more and more to be permeating our institutions,

I do not know the answer to the question-"what can we do about this decay?" But, IMO as an ancient citizen, who has seen this ever-increasing degradation occuring before my eyes, I say to you who have most of your lives before you, YOU must not fail to participate in some way, to the solution of this problem.......for what is it that we will have in the long run, when personal and organizational integrity no longer exist? If the human infrastructure of our country is allowed to crumble, the physical structure will be a mere facade, and the rest of the world may very well follow..............

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 50 weeks ago, 11:02 AM

LLE

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there seems to be no interest HERE, in this case, except PM's that take me to task for suggesting that JoPA was wrong. Let me set the record straight. The relevant Pennsylvania law sets the expectation for persons [OTHER THAN those spelled out in 23 Pa.C.S section 6311] to report child abuse or neglect.[23 Pa.C.S.section 6312]. Also, "privileged communications" do not apply under the circumstances of alleged child abuse, so there can be no excuse for failure to report to law enforcement, as opposed to just butt-covering by reporting within the PSU hierarchy and "washing one's hands" of the matter. One could argue that the relevant regulations cited above, do not specifically name coaches, as "mandatory reporters", and therefore one of my premises was INCORRECT; ie, messrs McQueary and Paterno were NOT REQUIRED by law, to report to law enforcement.[ this is another good lesson in "assumption"--My State says others "SHALL" report, but PA says "MAY" report--big difference there] But look at what the judgment of the Board of Trustees has required --not only has Joe been fired, but also several officers, including the President of the university. I believe the Board's judgment was justified as a first step in rehabilitating the reputation of what was [and will again be] a great university. It is obvious what the Board of Trustees is communicating to their publics: .....this university will not countenance any cover-up or appearance of a cover-up, by ANY of its employees, however "well-intensioned" the employees wrongly construed such actions were necessary and desired by the university. IMO there at least is a significant question of due diligence on the part of EACH of the "players" who were fired, as well as McQeary, who at present is on administrative leave with pay. That question is: cover your a$$ versus do your complete duty to protect your community. While this question may very well not involve criminal charges, it may VERY WELL involve civil law suits.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 50 weeks ago, 12:29 AM

Builtf0rdtough

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This is only the second time Ive heard of this. Thought it was BS but I guess the story is legit. Still dont know all the details.

"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy"-Winston Churchill
2 years 50 weeks ago, 10:27 AM

LLE

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It is not BS---You can read the findings of the Thirty-Third Statewide Investigating Grand Jury [of Pennsylvania]. It was released to the public last Tuesday, and you can find it at:

www.hlntv.com/

Look at "TOP STORIES" click on: The Grand Jury's findings in the case..."

You will have all the detail necessary to understand the [criminal] case, and also understand the controversy over the firings of Coach Paterno and the University President.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 50 weeks ago, 5:13 PM

Vaquero

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Just plain wrong, no matter how you look at it. Joe got it wrong! The whole thing should have been exposed and stopped immediately. All who fall do so deservedly.

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
2 years 50 weeks ago, 5:45 PM

luckybychoice

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and the students

at Penn State that rioted over Paterno getting fired,they got their heads up each others ass for that,but i guess at Penn State that's acceptable behavior.

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
2 years 50 weeks ago, 9:55 AM

LLE

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a classic Greek tragedy.......the great man having caused his own demise.
While I believe some of the students' behavior has been reprehensible, let's remember that they all should not be tarred with the same brush. I am certain there is a large majority who are sickened by the behavior of their university officers and their [no longer] lionized, irresponsible coach.

As time passes, we are learning more, and we will comtinue to learn more. As an example: The
case of Mike McQueary, the [then in 2002] graduate assistant coach who allegedly observed the sexual assault of a minor boy, [by Jerry Sandusky], and had done nothing to stop the assault. The criticism and hatred of McQueary now seems completely unwarranted, since information is now coming out that he, indeed, DID stop the assault. I think we can forgive him, at least a little, for not reporting directly to the police, instead of going to Paterno---his "hero", who he assumed would do the right thing.
Let's remember also, that the dumbass Pennsylvania statute did not actually REQUIRE McQueary [or Paterno] to report to law enforcement. But Paterno did NOT do the [morally] right thing, and some day we may know if he conspired with the AD and the VP, Business, to soften/modify what was reported to the President of the University. That is what led to the appearance of a cover-up.
I am sure y'all are wondering why I am so hung up by this story. Well--truth be told-- I am a born and raised Pennsylvanian, and my earliest college prep desire was to attend PSU, over any other school. Circumstances prevented that, but I have always loved and admired that school, and have envied many of my friends that did get to attend and graduate from there.
As for the Paterno story, I will leave you with a most expressive coment:

SIC TRANSIT GLORIA..............................

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 50 weeks ago, 2:58 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

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PSU scandal

LLE, I agree with you on this. When I started hearing about this, I found myself wondering how all of the involved could have been so gutless. I was out on a hunting trip when most of this broke. When I got back, most of what I read was follow-up stories which made the (poor) assumption the reader already knew what happened, so it took me a bit to piece together the details. And I'm not sure I have yet.

But for that asst. coach to witness that act and not take immediate action disgusts me. Even if he didn't think he could physically overpower Sandusky, he should have confronted him. It would have at least stopped the act. And he could have shouted, hoping to draw others attention.

When Joe Pa reported this to the administration and they didn't act or it became clear they were hoping to sweep it under the rug, he should have then went to the legal authorities.

One last thing to add, it seems to have stopped now and maybe that's because others felt like I and pointed it out, but I was shocked at the media that called it a "sex scandal". A professor having an affair with a faculty or student would be a sex scandal. Rape isn't sex. This was an act of violence and assault and it should have been labeled as such.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
2 years 50 weeks ago, 6:45 PM

LLE

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The media's hype almost always uses inflamatory [and sometimes erroneous] language to spice up the story that has captured the imagination of the public. This most certainly is not a sex scandal. It is a case of [alleged] blatant, active, repetitive, assaultive, preditorial pedophilic behavior, which probably began long before the act witnessed, and now said to have been stopped by Mike McQueary. If it is true that McQuery DID intervene and stop the attack, he is to be commended. However, he failed to do his moral duty in not reporting to law enforcement, and worse still, coach Paterno also failed. It is a sad commentary that a man of Paterno's accomplishments and stature will be remembered more for this terrible failure.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 50 weeks ago, 9:23 AM

Saint J.M. Browning

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Also,

if what I've heard turns out to be true, it is a case of sex slavery as well. One story I read indicated that this POS ran a side business that was a front to sell boys to pedophile alumni.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
2 years 50 weeks ago, 10:34 AM

LLE

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but I am not sure of the validity of the story. I have read the Grand Jury document, and I do not remember any mention of evidence of that accusation. The picture painted by that document is sordid and vile enough to perhaps send the accused to the pen for a good long time. We will see whether the Pennsylvania DA is a headline seeking opportunist who is looking for her 15 minutes of fame, or a tough, unrelenting prosecutor who will prove the case and put this [alleged] perverted slime-ball away.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 50 weeks ago, 10:38 AM

Reaper308

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I have heard rumors as well that there are over 100 children involved and that they were given out to boosters... once again, only rumors (supposedly from a family member of the reporter that broke the story). It’s probably BS but imagine if it were true.

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
2 years 50 weeks ago, 10:49 AM

LLE

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many heads will have to roll--------or there truly IS no justice.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 50 weeks ago, 12:13 PM

LLE

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Mike McQueary, the then graduate assistant coach, has claimed ,in an email to a friend, released to news sources, that he not only stopped the [2002] alleged, eyes-on, observed sodomizing assault by Sandusky on a young boy; He now states that HE, McQueary, DID report it to police.

It is reasonable to assume that McQueary would not be fabricating such a statement, since there would be a confirming police record of his contact and report. So--it appears that he did his moral duty. One wonders if, when McQuery reported the story to Paterno, McQueary informed Paterno of his report to the police, and, if so, perhaps Paterno under the circumstances assumed that he, Paterno should just report up the management chain. This then begs the question: did Paterno in his report to the AD, tell the AD that McQuery had already reported the incident to the police? If in fact Paterno included this fact in his report to the AD, WHY would the AD think in his wildest of dreams, this whole mess could be covered-up!!??

This whole mess is becoming "CURIOUSER and CURIOUSER".....................................

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 49 weeks ago, 8:03 PM

Vaquero

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I heard today

That McQuery reported it to the head of Campus Police. There is no official police report on file.
It got swept under the rug.

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
2 years 49 weeks ago, 9:59 AM

LLE

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aftershock of this mess. I doubt McQueary would lie about contacting the police, so I give him the benefit of reasonable doubt. If McQuery meant that he reported it to The CAMPUS POLICE, then we have another reason to call "cover-up" since VP Schultz was in charge of that function, and could have squashed the report. If McQueary meant that he reported it to the area civilian police department, we have another puzzlement, since that Chief of Police has stated there is no record of such a report.
I believe that after all of the facts are uncovered, this case will take its place as THE most egregious in the history of U.S college/university scandals. That is why I used the word "debacle".......a complete and total failure of organizational and personal ethics and morality, with an alarming disregard for the welfare of the community at-large.

Indeed--- Heads SHOULD roll !!

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 49 weeks ago, 10:18 PM

Ishootdaily

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I'm at a loss here

Doesn't anyone wonder why it is that anyone considering himself a thoughtful and caring human being let alone a MAN, would have not waked into the shower and beat the guy half to death before calling the Police and Ambulance?

The Supreme Court struck down the death penalty for sexual predators of children. Sad thing too, because frankly speaking those people are not sick, they are broken beyond repair.

Rabid dog's are not put down to free the animal from a long drug out painful death. Nor are they put down for any other reason than they are a threat to human beings and pose a threat of spreading Rabies.

How is a Pedophile any different?

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
2 years 49 weeks ago, 8:17 AM

tallguy007

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JUST ME

I do not see why they would stop that as history has proven that they cannot be fixed, rehabilitated, controlled, or given enough medicine to prevent them from continuing these actions, but when it happens to their children they will cry but will be too late!

That is why you need to be like the old West present them with the Texas necktie or better yet if the parents and loved ones use a Louisville slugger! .........................TY

DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR
2 years 49 weeks ago, 10:25 AM

LLE

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the concerns that most of us have.. But again, I give McQueary the benefit of reasonable doubt. Beating an alleged, caught-in-the-act pedophile half to death [or worse] might be very satisfying, before you turned him over to the LEOs; but then you could have subjected yourself to all sorts of potential criminal charges and civil difficulties that might plague you for the rest of your life. My guess is McQueary took the conservatively wise route. He did not wish to be seen as judge, jury and "executioner"-----only, good citizen.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 49 weeks ago, 10:58 PM

Vaquero

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Makes me wonder about holding one human in such high esteem that you could let something like that pass just because the boss man told you to. Just wrong on so many levels it aint good for my health to think on it much.

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
2 years 49 weeks ago, 3:13 AM

luckybychoice

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Vaquero

well said.Heads are gonna roll.

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
2 years 47 weeks ago, 9:15 PM

runawaygun762

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if Mqueary (sp) had taken personal responsibility for protecting innocent children. I SWEAR that if I am ever in a position where I see someone hurting a child, concern for my job will be saved for after the police have locked me up for beating the motherfucker to death. How can a 20-something man see an old guy hurting a child and simply walk away? So what if he did report it? He shouldn't have allowed that filthy old fuck to leave the locker room alive.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
2 years 47 weeks ago, 11:33 AM

bad landing47

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As much as I hate pedophiles, the correct thing to do was to rescue the boy. call the police and the boys parents, have forensics see if they can get DNA evidence and let the police arrest the POS. If they were able to get DNA that would verify the assault the child might not have to go through having to testify in court. Just my 2centts

2 years 47 weeks ago, 12:29 PM

runawaygun762

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This loser letting the old man continue on in that locker room is the same thing as when people on the streets see a woman getting attacked and do nothing about it. I really don't know what causes it, whether it's the attitude of "It's none of my business" or just plain fear, but people are a bunch of pussies.

Of course I might have some pent-up anger remaining after all those times samD touched me when I was a child.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
2 years 47 weeks ago, 12:50 PM

samD

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That was e-bear wearing a mask....

2 years 47 weeks ago, 4:04 PM

runawaygun762

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He knows he doesn't have to wear a mask. He's practically family. That' why it's okay for him to touch me

I am in rural Missouri, after all.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.

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