Forums / Political & Legal / D.C. Gay Marriage Measure Set for Mayor's Signature

4 years 49 weeks ago, 11:10 AM

ssrs10

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An overwhelming majority on the D.C. Council voted today to recognize same-sex marriages performed in other states, sending the District deeper into the national debate and galvanizing supporters on both sides of the issue.

The measure, approved by a vote 12 to 1, now goes to Mayor Arian M. Fenty (D), a supporter of gay marriage.

If Fenty signs it, the District will put the same-sex marriage issue directly before the Congress. Under Home Rule, the District's laws are subject to a 30-day congressional review period.
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After the vote, a large crowd of opponents, led by local ministers, began yelling "Get them off the council!" referring to the members who supported the measure. After the vote, a large crowd of opponents, led by local ministers, began yelling "Get them off the council!" referring to the members who supported the measure. The crowd caused such a ruckus that security guards and D.C. police officers had to be called in to restore order.

"We need a new Council. They are destroying our youth," shouted Paul Trantham, who lives in Southeast. "Every minister who fears God should be here. This is disrespectful to the nation's Capitol. There is nothing equal about same-sex marriage."

Another protester, C.T. Riley, added: "This is not over. We are going to the hill with this issue."

The Council initially voted unanimously, without debate, to approve the bill. But Council member Marion Barry (D-Ward 8) apparently did not realize what he was voting on. A few minutes after the initial vote, Barry made a motion to reconsider the vote.

He then voted against the proposal. Before the final vote, Barry noted he has been a longtime supporter of gay rights but said he decided to stand with the "ministers who stand on the moral compass of God."

"It has been a very agonizing and difficult decision," Barry said. He then added, "I feel comfortable with this position because I know where my heart is. . . . I am representing my constituents. I have thought about it lot and I have been a friend of [the gay] community and will continue to be a friend of this community."

Council member David A. Catania (I-At large), one of two openly gay members of the Council, appeared to take a swipe at Barry over his stance.

"This issue is whether or not our colleagues on a personal level view me and [Council member] Jim Graham as your equals," Catania said, referring to the other openly gay member of the council. "If we are permitted the same rights and responsibilities and obligations as our colleagues. So this is personal. This is acknowledging our families as much as we acknowledge yours."

Barry quickly fired back at Catania.
"I understand this is personal to you and Mr. Graham. I understand because I have been discriminated against," Barry said. "I resent the implication that because you are not here on this particular issue, that you are not being treated equally. . . . I resent Mr. Catania saying either you are a bigot or against bigotry as though this particular legislation represents all of that."

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses
4 years 49 weeks ago, 11:13 AM

samD

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or anything that he wants. His dog, vacuum cleaner, little boys. What a country!

4 years 49 weeks ago, 11:14 AM

abur

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gay marriage

gay marriage is wrong and immoral, marriage should between a man and a woman only. Thats all im gonna say or I will explode and probably offend alot of people.

4 years 49 weeks ago, 3:30 PM

ssrs10

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HEY!

Speaking of this isn't it interesting that the media outlets destroyed that woman when she came out and supported Man/woman marriage?

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses
4 years 49 weeks ago, 3:34 PM

charley9toe

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samD & Barney

You left out the pool filter !

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4 years 49 weeks ago, 3:44 PM

runawaygun762

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And I have asked it before. Let me say that I think gay relationships are completely morally wrong and disgusting and the people who engage in this kind of activity have a long period of damnation waiting for them. However, neither my morals, nor anyone else's, should determine how someone lives their life. My question is this; why should people not be allowed to live as they wish, and in doing so, how does it violate any of your rights? I don't agree with it, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to do it. Gay marriage does not give someone the right to marry or fuck a little boy, that is still just as illegal as marrying or fucking little girls and should remain so. Saying this should be illegal shows a complete disregard for the principles of freedom. Just remember that your morals are not necessarily the same as mine, nor do they have to be for you to live as you wish, as long as you do not violate any of my rights. Another point I have brought up before is there is a place on this planet where the "moral majority" got their way and decide how others should live. We refer to the place as the middle east and the system is called Sharia. Is this what we're going for? Should we bring back the Puritan way of life? I hope not, as the titties we all love so much on this and every other site are gone.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
4 years 49 weeks ago, 3:48 PM

samD

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once the Socialists/Communists got into power they jailed or killed all the homosexuals, ala Castro, Stalin and Hitler.
So they are building their own gallows. Of course the MSM won't tell them this... He He He

4 years 49 weeks ago, 4:13 PM

Schuyler

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Locally, if you question homosexulaity, then you are automatically a gay basher who is a closet queer. There is no middle ground. I am a recovering liberal, and this is one thing that helped push me over the edge. When the ACLU began promoting the idea that junior high school boys had a right to be gay, I just lost it.

The thing is, if you have black skin, you shouldn't have to fight discrimination. Skin color is not something you choose. You can say the same thoing about any ethnic group that has experienced discrimination, from Jews to Irishmen. We throw religion in there as well even though, to some extent, that's a choice. it's still specifically called out in the Constitution. Discriminate along those lines and you are violating another person's civil rights. I think that is a done deal.

Now 'sexual orientation' is being touted as a 'civil rights' issue. This includes transvestites and that miracle of modern medicine, 'transgendered persons,' those folks who are 'men in women's bodies' and vice versa. Now, you have to believe that being gay is like being black--you can't help it--if you're going to outlaw discrimination of gays. My own feeling is that being gay is a choice that is simply more accepted today than it as years ago. I suppose there are people who are pre-disposed to being gay and there are people who have been driven into it by circumstance, but make no mistake that in some circles this is a political decision, not one from the heart. It is also in my opinion, an indulgence made possible by an increaingly liberal society that believes thay have the right to do drugs, but believe defending yourself is wrong.

The problem in codifying homosexuality is that you create a situation where I, as a photographer, for example, who refuses to photograph a gay wedding, can be sued under the Civil Rights Act because I think it is morally wrong. THAT is what is wrong about this issue. Homosexuality is being forced down our throats along with the rest of the liberal agenda.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
4 years 49 weeks ago, 4:17 PM

samD

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Freudian slip?

Homosexuality is being forced down our throats along with the rest of the liberal agenda.

4 years 49 weeks ago, 4:20 PM

Schuyler

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I prefer Gucci myself, at least for ebear.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
4 years 49 weeks ago, 4:21 PM

Ebear

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ok

now im hurling!!!!

...check... G-AZ
4 years 49 weeks ago, 4:30 PM

runawaygun762

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Just like religion is a choice. Living how you wish, as long as it doesn't violate others' rights, is the very basis of our nation. It is liberty. People choose to be gay, and we don't have to like it, but we have to protect their rights. It is their right. I don't agree with Mormonism being a religion as much as it is a cult, but people have that right. On the issue of race, what about interracial couples? I was raised with family values that say races should stay to themselves. My experience as an adult allowed me to change this belief, but my wife still holds to it. Should interracial couples not be allowed to marry because there are many who see it as morally wrong? It is the same thing. You don't have to like it, but that's the beauty of our nation. It doesn't have to be accepted to be allowed. Sure, liberal organizations take it too far, but don't they do that with everything? They are wrong, but gay marriage is a right, no matter how repulsive we may find it.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
4 years 49 weeks ago, 5:06 PM

ivantank

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WELL FUKIN SAID PAL

MAN U GOT BALLS TO THE MAX TO SAY THAT HERE...BUT I SECOND THAT

I have reasons for the things I do, just don't expect them to be reasonable
4 years 49 weeks ago, 5:00 PM

charley9toe

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I believe that accepted/legal homosexuality is another step toward artificial recreation. I am thinking that would be a logical progression in a society that legalized homosexuality. They would want to (have someone bear) their genetic offspring. Is that what "we" in our society are prepared for. OK, lets trot out that PH(u)D in social anthropology to enlighten us with their input on societal impact.

(You have to look behind all of that outer space stuff)
4 years 49 weeks ago, 5:11 PM

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first and foremost, let me say that gay marriage is wrong, and i am against it, i am a christian and would have to stand by my God and my beliefs, if ever gay marriage would be accepted in all of america, what is next? legality to marry a dog? legality to marry incestuosly? many gay rights leaders compare their struggle to what black people had to go thru, and give me a break, they can be who they want to be, i dont care, but the government should stand by God and not let this happen. all gays know it is wrong to be a damn homo yet they still do it, we all have sinned and have made mistakes, but what they are doing is a mockery of the lord, the country, and the people, i do not want these "people" near myself, my wife, my sister and my kids to come, not only do they NOT believe in God, they make a complete mockery of GOD, now let me ask the government, is this who you all are siding with? the non believing, dick sucking, lesbo trotting pieces of shit....

I'm just another damn yankee with a loaded gun looking for some fun!
4 years 49 weeks ago, 5:16 PM

charley9toe

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More Input

My MS is in Animosity, Univ of Seoul. Otherwise, I would provide additional commentary.

(You have to look behind all of that outer space stuff)
4 years 49 weeks ago, 5:21 PM

charley9toe

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schuyler

OK, I got it. I thought he was just another cyber wizard. Tks

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4 years 49 weeks ago, 5:24 PM

Schuyler

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I think the evidence would show otherwise. My objetion is to special privileges and to the politics of the issue. The Lesbian lifestyle is not just about two women being attracted to each other--it's an anti-male political rant. In many areas today it is considered politically correct to be lesbian. If you are not, you are considered right wing. Political pressure is a devious thing. I worked in an industry that forbade me to express my beliefs in the second amendment because if I did, I would have been ostracized to the point that I would have had to leave my position. THAT kind of behavior and attitude is what is wrong with this. I am being forced to accept the gay lifestyle as a 'right' and being put in a position of breaking the law if I do not wish to associate with it.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
4 years 49 weeks ago, 5:31 PM

Ebear

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ok it's like this

I do believe it is choice over being born that way...look at Rosie O' dONALD, NO HUMAN GUY WANTED HER SO WHEN A CHIC MISTOOK HER FOR A CLEANSHAVEN, CONSTRUCTION WORKER SHE WENT WITH IT.Yet I do believe that more women than Men use this as a Political Tool to get more recognition as a group, Tell me both parties did'nt court the Lesbian vote this last election.And WITH THIS POWER COMES fINANCIAL BENIFITS.

...check... G-AZ
4 years 49 weeks ago, 5:41 PM

raffycanlas

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schuyler and ebear

thats true, if that ellen degenerate wasnt a lesbian she wouldnt have her own damn show...

I'm just another damn yankee with a loaded gun looking for some fun!
4 years 49 weeks ago, 5:50 PM

Mark3030

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Gay Marriage

Although i will never openly support gay marriages, but i do have to side with Runaway's points of views. Although i appreciate Raffy's and the others who don't agree views as well, it comes from the heart and is passionate. But if we allow interracial marriages within our own society and allow other societies to participate. Who are we? We are not the land of the free if we dictate how they live and that is a moral obligation. So against my heart i believe it should be allowed. This is very hard for me because of how i was raised, but i believe it is correct. Because they have made a choice of who to love with denying them, we are denying their happiness which is against our constitution of freedom. I would hate for someone to tell me that i couldn't be married to my wife for one reason or another, and that is their feeling as well whether we agree with their choice or not. End of subject.

"the thrill of the hunt"
4 years 49 weeks ago, 5:59 PM

Ebear

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im not opposed

to gay marriage. I'm opposed to anybody tellin me to support them or else!!! thats all. i don't care if you marry a pelican, just don't threaten me with a boycott or finacial reprocuccions if i don't jump when you tell me to.

...check... G-AZ
4 years 49 weeks ago, 6:06 PM

Schuyler

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What does the government have to do with 'marriage'? Really, why is the government even involved? Should not 'marriage' be between two people and their own religious beliefs? Why do you even need a 'marriage license' at all?

Part of the answer is that the government has a vested interest in promoting the social welfare, so married couples have some privileges non-married couples don't on the strength that the nuclear fmily provides a stable environment to raise the next generation. Like, for example, they get to pay more taxes because they get to file jointly and therby have a higher income. Well, maybe that's not so hot. But, they do become a single legal entity--particularly in a 'community property' state. This sets up other privileges. For example, if my employer offers medical and other benefits to my spouse as part of a working agreement, my spouse and kids are covered. If this is a tax supported institution, then taxes cover that cost. So, in essence tha gays are focing me to use my taxes to indulge their lifestyle.

Today we are experiencing the breakdown of the family structure. Single parents are actually the norm, particularly in poor areas. Most of us have no religious or other moral foundation. We have become our own moral authorities believeing we have the right to live any damn way we please. I think we are seeing the breakdown of society as we knew it and that this breakdown is, on average, a bad thing in terms of the strength of our country. When people believe doing drugs is morally good and joining the military is morally bad, we've got a problem.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
4 years 49 weeks ago, 6:08 PM

Mark3030

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ebear "Damn right"

this I hold to be true. no political party or organization ,for that matter person shall tell me what to belive in or tell me how to think.

"the thrill of the hunt"
4 years 49 weeks ago, 6:37 PM

Schuyler

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and you managed to put in a couple of sentences what I was trying to say in paragraphs. Thanks.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
4 years 49 weeks ago, 10:28 PM

Eturnit3

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Marriage is a religious joining of 2 people to start a family... where is the religious value in gay marriage? They only want to be married to get spousal benefits anyways we shouldn't allow gay marriage just for that. Maybe a legal partnership... but never will I think 2 men or woman to enter into a religious partnership as something other than not right in gods eyes..

The time is coming when those who kill you will think they are offering service to God. Jesus - (John 16.2) A penny saved is a government oversight.
4 years 49 weeks ago, 10:32 PM

Anonymous

bearbitch!

in simple terms:God Created Adam And Eve Not Adam And Steve!Silly Faggot Dicks Are For Chicks!

4 years 49 weeks ago, 10:33 PM

Eturnit3

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fucking lol

Greasypaws for president!!

The time is coming when those who kill you will think they are offering service to God. Jesus - (John 16.2) A penny saved is a government oversight.
4 years 49 weeks ago, 10:36 PM

Anonymous

i gotta earn more points cause that bean eating ebear is ahead of me now!FUCK!

4 years 49 weeks ago, 10:42 PM

raffycanlas

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hahaha bearbitch

i forgot he is gay lol

I'm just another damn yankee with a loaded gun looking for some fun!
4 years 49 weeks ago, 10:45 PM

Anonymous

sorry bearbitch!

no pole smokers here!go to www.LA Times.com!

4 years 49 weeks ago, 11:14 PM

undeniable

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I didn't want to,

but I can't, it seems keep my mouth shut. The main reason behind intercourse is breeding. The only way for the continuation of a species is pro-creation (notice the root word). This, in other than asexual organisms has to happen between a male and female member of a species. If you don't believe in God and a Holy Union. ask Charles Darwin. This was his findings, but most aetheists that lean left stop short when this comes up as it offends their sensibilities. Find the natural order of things in this if you can. That is all I have for this subject. How about that paint job on the rifle in Eturnit3's post? Now that is bad ass!!!

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." Kevin Spacey: (The Usual Suspects)
4 years 49 weeks ago, 10:46 PM

Anonymous

i put in the web address for the LA Times and only half of it is blue!?WTF?

4 years 49 weeks ago, 10:48 PM

raffycanlas

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just clam munchers? lol

I'm just another damn yankee with a loaded gun looking for some fun!
4 years 49 weeks ago, 10:49 PM

runawaygun762

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If the government has a legitimate place in the social welfare created by the "nuclear families", why do they not pass legislation requiring televisions to be turned off at dinner time and require families to sit at the dinner table together? Would anyone stand for that? As the head of my household, this is something I require of my family already, even though my son is only a year and a half old, because this is one way to interact with him, to show an interest in what he does through dinner time conversation, which I believe will lower his chances in the future of doing things at or after school that I don't approve of. But would I accept the government telling me how to lead my family? No. I don't have to accept gays in my house, because I can tell them to get out or turn off the TV if I want. The fags have a legitimate right to marry each other if they so choose. It is only up front and in your face because they need to be that way to get equal treatment by the law. How long have women been working for equality and they are still paid less for the same work than a male counterpart. I think fags are disgusting, but they have just as much right to marry as morbidly obese people who will not doubt pass on genes and lifestyle choices which will cause continued strain on our healthcare system and the welfare of our society. There are all kinds of people who probably should not marry and procreate, but if we put that into legislation, I would be sterilized, as I'm not 6'1" with blond hair and blue eyes, catch my drift?

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
4 years 49 weeks ago, 10:55 PM

Eturnit3

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I believe..

A marriage isnt called a marriage unless is it is a religious event... am I right there? Otherwise its just a legal partnership... they can have that as far as Im concerned, Im just sayin I dont want them to be considered a holey matrimony/union whatever you call it, when it is spoken directly against in the gospel...

The time is coming when those who kill you will think they are offering service to God. Jesus - (John 16.2) A penny saved is a government oversight.
4 years 49 weeks ago, 11:10 PM

Anonymous

gay marriage

these freaks want their union to each other to mean the same as my union to my wife?WTF!if they want the same benefits hire a fucking lawyer dont desicrate the sanctity of marriage!hell,if butt humper marriage is ok then i can have 7 wives!tell me what the difference is!if any one of my four children decide they are gay they have been told ahead of time that they are out of this family and are on their own!no phone calls,no financial help,nothing!the wife hates it but i will enforce it with steel toed boots and a 12 gauge shotgun!in my eyes if you are gay you should go to the gallows poles and swing until you are dead,dead,dead!

4 years 49 weeks ago, 11:13 PM

runawaygun762

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beatmymeat

And you know this how? Please enlighten us, wise one.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
4 years 49 weeks ago, 11:17 PM

raffycanlas

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agreed

what greasy said

I'm just another damn yankee with a loaded gun looking for some fun!
4 years 49 weeks ago, 11:24 PM

runawaygun762

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See, the only reason I'd want to have a daughter is so I can scare her boyfriends off when she's a teenager. That's it. So I hope my son turns out to be a fag. That way I get to raise a boy, do father/son things, and scare away the boyfriends. Best of both worlds. See? I'm so cool.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
4 years 49 weeks ago, 11:33 PM

Anonymous

rtunaway!

i have 2 girls and 2 boys!i have shotguns ready for the girls and porno mags and rubbers ready for the boys!i am so fucked!

4 years 49 weeks ago, 11:34 PM

raffycanlas

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hey hairmeat!!!

so u say jesus never existed, u seem to talk about him an awful lot. how the fuck would you know, heck youre just a bag of bones you queer!

I'm just another damn yankee with a loaded gun looking for some fun!
4 years 49 weeks ago, 11:37 PM

runawaygun762

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beatmymeat

There is no burden of proof for the existence of God. The existence of God and following his commands is a belief system, therefore no proof is necessary for those who believe. As for your historical documentation, try this one on for size. Jesus is in the Koran, too. Jesus, or Issa as he is called in Arabic, was a major prophet of God in Islam. He was not the son, and was not as important as Muhammed, but a very important one nonetheless. If you insist on making statements intended to piss people off, then your shit will be deleted. I have asked samD not to delete your stuff in hopes of a decent debate, but I am not seeing it so far.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
4 years 49 weeks ago, 12:51 PM

runawaygun762

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beatmymeat

If you look at the history of marriage, it began as a religious event that governments inserted themselves into. You got it backward, fuckface. I agree with you that fags should be allowed to marry, but you are not using reason or logic, you are trying to get a rise out of people, just like the other liberals douche bags who have come in here. Problem with doing it that way is that mods and admin can kick you off, and then you have to go through the effort of starting a new account while getting rammed in the ass by your boyfriend, and he gets mad because you're not grunting loud enough because your mind is occupied with trying to come up with another screenname, and then he leave in a huff and goes to have a three way with your dad and brother. So try to play nice, because your dad's o-ring is pretty much blown out from all the ass fucking and when he farts it sounds like a breeze blowing a bed sheet on a clothes line. So please, for your father's anal welfare, play nice.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
4 years 49 weeks ago, 12:14 PM

Eturnit3

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Dec 2008
Location:
Grass Valley , CA

A legal partnership isnt enough for you fudge packers n clam bumbers, you want to shit on my religion by calling your partnership a marriage/holy union. Tell me how you figure that the government had anything to do with marriage aside from licensing, far as I know the bible is much older than American Government, and lemme tell ya what the bible says, "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior" (Ephesians 5:22-23). "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her" (Ephesians 5:25). "In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church” (Ephesians 5:28-29). “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh” (Ephesians 5:31).

The time is coming when those who kill you will think they are offering service to God. Jesus - (John 16.2) A penny saved is a government oversight.
4 years 49 weeks ago, 12:26 PM

ssrs10

ssrs10's picture

Rank:
Lieutenant General
Points:
2020
Join Date:
Oct 2008
Location:
Connecticut, United States
eturnit/everyone....

It's okay man, everything is about THEM, it's all about ME ME ME ME ME ME I I I I I, they could give a flying fuck what you think the only thing that matters is their opinions and it a BIG FUCK YOU if you don't agree.....I don't necessarily believe that there is a God or not but I think if you feel as though there is one then you believe it and good for you it is your RIGHT to that belief, and if you wanna get your dick all covered in poop then go right fucking ahead but don't tell me about it.....I don't walk around screaming or having parades to show that I'm straight...perhaps I should take my girlfriend out into the street on a giant float and fuck the shit outta her.....who knows.....bottom line is, don't attack other peoples beliefs they are different from yours, this is a little bugger called DIVERSITY, live with it....and for all you dumbass libs who have sticks so far up your asses that you have closed your mind to all ideas and creeds other than your own you need to remember that the world does NOT revolve around YOU.....DEAL WITH IT

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses
4 years 49 weeks ago, 12:47 PM

Schuyler

Schuyler's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3905
Join Date:
Nov 2008
Location:
Bainbridge Island, Washington, United States

Quote:
A person does not choose to be gay. They are gay or they are not gay.

That quote can be ranked right there with someone who says he believes in God or Jesus. You, bearmeat, are not immune to indulging and believing in mythology. I happen to believe that 'being gay' is a choice, and an indulgence, not something that is inherent in a person that they cannot change. Saying being gay is inherent is a cultural definition the same way 'alcoholism is a disease' has been made a definition because the AMA says it is, not because of any other factors. In both cases the cultural definition has removed responsibility from the individual. Joe is an alcoholic because he is sick, not because he is self-indulgent. John is gay 'because it is inherent,' not because he had an over-bearing mother who made damn sure she wasn't going to share her son with any other female.

In historical times being gay was much less tolerated because the culture could not afford for you to be gay. It was hard enough to get children to live past one year of age. If you wanted the culture to move forward and prosper you had an obligation to procreate. Today, of course, there are plenty of people, so the belief structure would have it that procreating is not necessary. I would maintain that it is because if our population replacement is not at least one for one, our culture will vanish in favor of islam or whatever the Chinese practice. It's a serious issue at that level.

I have a problem with a choice being turned into a Civil Rights issue. The Civil Rights laws were originally enacted to protect African-Americans from discrimination in housing, schooling, and employment. But now everyone wants an excuse to be a minority so they can take advantage of 'civil rights' to force their own agendas. Now, if someone gets mugged for their wallet and it turns out they are gay, it's no longer just an assault and a theft--it's a 'hate crime.'

I do believe our Founding Fathers, if they were to see how their principles have been twisted and stretched beyond all recognition, would be turning over in their graves. Not that they are blameless. They knew, for example, that the issue of slavery was not going to go away, but they ducked the issue 'in order to form a more perfect union' and ultimately caused the worst war in human history to be fought by their descendents.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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