Forums / Political & Legal / Don't ask Don't tell being thrown out.

6 years 43 weeks ago, 9:03 PM

zx12rmike

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I heard on the news, we are in the process of openly accepting "Gay" to serve in our military. As with women, I think they should be allowed to defend the country they believe in. Even if their sexual preferences are all screwed up. How do you feel about it?

"We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home" Thomas Jefferson
6 years 43 weeks ago, 9:09 PM

Vaquero

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Dont ask dont tell

Well... I can't argue with someone who likes pussy, and maybe there ain't enough people yearnin for my pecker.
Aw hell, send em over seas, nothing better than a fag lighting up a islamist.
Hell bound for leather!

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
6 years 43 weeks ago, 9:13 PM

greg az

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as in complaints.. if a troop is a lop now.. he just gets yelled at, as he per EVER.. but i'm afraid that thiers gona be a lot of "Sergeant yelled at me cause im gay" things.. thoughts?

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
6 years 43 weeks ago, 9:17 PM

Vaquero

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No change as far as I can see.
Discrimination happens to pansies, no matter what it may stem from.
Nobody is askin or tellin them to do something that nobody else hasn't already done.

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
6 years 43 weeks ago, 10:33 PM

CharlesW

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Fags in the Military

Sure let them serve as long as they get hung up
on the bayonet course.
I wouldn't want one in the showers looking
everyone over. Might not be good for his
health.

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
6 years 43 weeks ago, 11:02 PM

ecaman

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Killing the "don't ask, don't tell" will just let them serve openly. They're already there, men and women, and have always been. I served with gay men and women in the 1960's. There was no problem, because they kept a low profile. If they're serving openly, and guys act like flaming queers, and do cross dressing to go out at night, there might well be a problem. In such cases, there are regulations that would let them be kicked out (I can't quote the regulations now - it's been so long since I was active. If they don't act like that, I don't see a problem.

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. (Mark Twain).
6 years 43 weeks ago, 11:06 PM

CharlesW

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Gays in military

We had a guy we thought was gay in my company in
basic at Ft Polk. He was on fire guard one night and
almost got beat to death. They never charged anyone

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
6 years 43 weeks ago, 2:29 AM

luckybychoice

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as long as they are

treated equally,like shit,,but if one was openly gay and got his ass beat for looking at someone in the shower,i would not want to see the guy that beat him charged with a "hate crime" for beating his ass.So if some fag was prancing around and being faggoty that would annoy the shit out of me,maybe they had better leave it the way it is.

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
6 years 43 weeks ago, 6:46 AM

photobear6

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I've said it before

I knew and was friends with people that served with me that were gay. Never had a problem with it. I just am really worried about the ones that will start the oh poor is me I didn't get, was made to do this, called a name, start filing Discrimination suits against fellow service men. You know the Higher command will have to come down hard on that person as a example even if it was not true just because they claimed it happened, because they'll be worried about there asses getting in a sling about it. Keep it the way it is. Don't ask, don't tell.

America is not at war. The U.S. Military is at war. America is at the Mall. If you don't stand behind our troops, PLEASE feel free to stand in front of them!
6 years 43 weeks ago, 6:50 AM

runawaygun762

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And I would love for a movement to get started by concerned citizens to change things, but the army right now is in shambles. We are at war, yet basic training is continuing to get softer on these kids. Ft Huachuca is an AIT post, the military intelligence school. We have literally had sergeants first class (E7) call the MP station and ask for a patrol to come to their training facility because a soldier was being unruly and wouldn't listen to them. Now, I went through infantry OSUT (basic and AIT. Why the fuck did I ever change over to MP?) in '95, and I can guarandamntee there are members on this site who had it much worse than I did, but I know if a private were to act the way some of these kids do toward my drill sergeants, a (wall to wall counseling session (gang stomping around the corner) would have been initiated. The problem with the army today is that we are at war, nearly every soldier who comes in will at some point deploy, yet the army is doing nothing to ensure these new kids are mentally prepared for that kind of stress. Cadre isn't even supposed to cuss at privates, and weeding out the weak isn't an option anymore, it's no wonder so many people are having mental issues after they get back, even though we don't see near the bad stuff WW2, Korea, or Vietnam guys went through. They can't handle it, because they are handled with kid gloves by everybody except the enemy. The only hope these people have got is us NCOs who train them and lead them in their units after basic and AIT. My soldiers knew that small mistakes in the turret would lead to having their knees beaten with my handset and every one of my gunners has been given the brief that if they freeze in the gun and fail to take action, mean ol' Marlow would stab them, take the gun, and make up a story about enemy fire so they could go home with a purple heart and a bullshit story to tell people. As far as fags in the army, fuck it. If they can hack it, let 'em "out".

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
6 years 43 weeks ago, 5:19 PM

luckybychoice

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I agree

that's what i heard about the army in talking to some of the guys that were recently discharged,of course they all had an axe to grind as well,but their opinion was that the army was to soft and these two guys i talked to had felt their hands were tied if they reenlisted for rank and then could not be a bit tougher on what they saw as a problem,political correctness invading army rank on top of the usual snafu,I would find it difficult to operate under those conditions and i am glad that we had physical ways of sorting shitbirds out and the Fireteam leader was the first level when it came to unfucking somebody and it was expected that when it went up a notch,to the squad leader,that a bit of physical attitude adjustment had taken place.

one of the best things our company had was a pair of boxing gloves and you could call some one into the ring for any reason,except EMs boxed EMs, and NCOs boxed NCOs,never saw an officer get in the ring.But if an NCO wanted some EM squared up he'd just have a talk with one of the EMs,and Bingo.Of course we had beer in the barracks and lots of guys decided that gloves weren't necessarry after a case or two on Friday night,damn fun.

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
6 years 43 weeks ago, 5:49 PM

CharlesW

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BASIC IN 65

When I took basic an NCO could put a boot in your ass
if you were out of step
We didn't get any kid gloves and we knew where we
were going so we knew we
needed all the help to stay alive we could get.
If I saw 2 punk ass gays holding hands in uniform I would
find a way to put them out of their misery, don't let me
in combat with them

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
6 years 43 weeks ago, 7:14 PM

photobear6

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I had heard that they

were giving time out cards to the recruits for awhile. So if the mean old drill sgt was yelling and picking on them to much they could pull out the card and the DI couldn't yell at them for awhile. I'm sorry but I wouldn't want to serve with a wussyfied solider. What ever happened to blanket parties and falling down steps in the middle of the night to help morale and get a recruit on the same page as the rest of us?

America is not at war. The U.S. Military is at war. America is at the Mall. If you don't stand behind our troops, PLEASE feel free to stand in front of them!
6 years 43 weeks ago, 11:38 AM

Pkato

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I have known gays when I was in the service...but they didn't let anybody know for sure. Under the new proposals, I think many would remain in the closet anyway (actually, my personal belief is that most will remain in the closet). Which doesn't really change anything fromt he way it is now. I do believe a small percentage will be openly gay and while in a combat situation, if a gay or a straight man/woman could shoot their weapon and kill the enemy that should be the only thing that matters...fair enough. However, the problems come not in a combat situation, where you must be paying attention to your environment, but back home or overseas at bases.

Will the military allow housing for gay partners?
Will there be gay nights at the club? -- ok that one is stupid, but you see where I am going
Will there be benefits for gay partners living off base if they are married or life partners etc
There are some other issues as well...but these are just a few.

You are talking about changing the entire culture and I don't believe that the miltiary is the proper place for social experiments. In addition, I do think that the gay lifestyle is a choice and not the same as your race. While I know some disagree with that, that is my personal belief, therefore I don't think it should be embraced in the military.

I will say though, it's a tough decision and there will be tough times if the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy is reversed. But I also, truly believe that most in the military will not come out of the closet anyway...we'll see.

Patrolman Kato
Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself.
They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone
under independence. -- George Washington
6 years 43 weeks ago, 12:02 PM

runawaygun762

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Housing is only authorized for dependents. Live in boy/girlfriends, common-law spouses, people like that don't qualify. if a couple is not legally married, parent/child, or disabled/caretaker, then they won't qualify for housing. Sexually-oriented themes aren't authorized, so there won't be any gay nights at clubs. Open gays will be an issue, and I don't agree with it, but I don't think it will be too big a deal after a while. Oh, and by the way, START CONTACTING YOUR CONGRESSMEN AND DEMAND TOUGHER BASIC TRAINING. They've got to start preparing these kids for the rigors of people trying to kill them and getting rid of those who can't handle the little bit of stress found in initial entry environment.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
6 years 43 weeks ago, 5:35 PM

Vaquero

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As I have stated. I have NO Military or LE background.
I am Joe citizen, well conservative with a capital C.
The Marine in the next office is old enough to "maybe" have served in Vietnam.
The ex Army guy across the hall was definitly deployed to Iraq for the current campaign.
Now, I have no opinion of Marine vs Army, or such.
The difference in age makes a BIG difference in what one guy can handle compared to the other. Do you consider this to be a "maturity" thing or a "training" thing or just a "how I was raised" thing?
PS, I am considered their "superior" in the workplace.
Sorry, the older Marine can handle anything and will discuss differences, the kid gets jitteryand defensive.

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
6 years 43 weeks ago, 5:58 PM

ivantank

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can we kick IRANS ASS..??

cause that little fucking rodent in iran sure is talkin shit

I have reasons for the things I do, just don't expect them to be reasonable
6 years 43 weeks ago, 6:00 PM

CharlesW

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Make glass out of all that sand

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
6 years 43 weeks ago, 6:29 PM

Vaquero

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Can anyone kick our ass?
Fuck no!
There is enough badass represented on this board to convince me.
If "we" are only 1% of the current estimated population, thats 3 million, aint nobody gonna do it!
or is it 30 mil, or 300 mil or just me?
Shit. i don't rmember how many people are estimated in the US.

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
6 years 43 weeks ago, 6:59 PM

HampsterW

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Vaquero

Out population is around 308 mil, not counting illegals ~ which I wouldn't count on anyway. In contrast, China has a population of approx. 1 billon 300 million~ .

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
6 years 43 weeks ago, 7:13 PM

Vaquero

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Hamp

I concede that.
I pose the following to all gunslot members.
How many chinese can get here at once?
How many "registered" guns are there in the US?
How much ammo is in the US?
How many can you take out?
"We" cannot be defeated by force.
Complacency has almost done us in.

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
6 years 43 weeks ago, 7:43 PM

HampsterW

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true that Vaquaro

We are better armed and god help them if we let Nato or anyone else take our weapons away, "from my cold dead hands" I am one of "those" people,as most of us here on the site.

When the time comes, I will look like a pudgy version of someone with an Ak 47 in one arm and an AR15 in the other and a shit load of ammo, so help me god.

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
6 years 43 weeks ago, 6:25 PM

photobear6

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No we couldn't

because the military isn't run by Warriors anymore, it's run by Politicians. And most of them have never been in the service so they have not a clue about serving in our military.

America is not at war. The U.S. Military is at war. America is at the Mall. If you don't stand behind our troops, PLEASE feel free to stand in front of them!
6 years 43 weeks ago, 6:34 PM

zx12rmike

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Agreed with Pkato. The

Agreed with Pkato. The military is rin by Politicallly Correct Morons now. All the power has been taken away from those who would do the best job at solvong the current problems. There was another major conflict that reeks of the same BS, hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

"We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home" Thomas Jefferson
6 years 43 weeks ago, 6:40 PM

CharlesW

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Military

Whats scarry about that is Bonzo in the white house

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
6 years 43 weeks ago, 7:02 PM

HampsterW

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True

Life will get harder for our military and that is unacceptable!

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
6 years 43 weeks ago, 7:22 PM

runawaygun762

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So does training. Training is huge. Tough, realistic training will instill a set of prescribed actions in someone that dies very hard. An example of training kicking in that I love presented itself in OIF 3 (my second tour). On three different occassions, while providing security for EOD at a scene, someone from the cordon fired a warning shot without telling anyone. Many froze, just stood there. On all three occassions, I moved toward the shot without thinking about it, in a ready position, prepared to engage. I got some funny looks and heard more than a few snide comments from some of the "combat arms" guys on the perimeter, but based on the information I had at the time and my mission, I did the right thing without even consciously thinking about it. That's not me trying to say I'm a "cool guy" or anything, just that my leadership when I was a young, impressionable infantry soldier knew the value of tough training and truly lived up to the old soldiers' adage of "The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in combat". The same type of training can be found in those guys who hit the ground when they hear a whistle. The only time you'll ever hear a mortar or artillery round is if it's already gone over your head, but many of us were subjected over and over to the relentless "React to indirect drill" so that we will hopefully already have cover when the closer rounds in a barrage start hitting. Training, more than anything, makes the difference. But experience, maturity level, and nature or nurture makes a big difference too. there are some peopl who are simply wired differently. I have seen and done things that have literally made other people lose it and have had no (to my knowledge) serious after effects. On the other hand, trying to remember a face or keep a room organized is seemingly beyond my abilities. I'll go ahead and post this comment so I can watch a movie with the family, but I have many more thoughts, opinions, and anecdotes (Of course other servicemembers read "anecdotes" as "bullshit war stories", but we all have a few of those, don't we?) that I would love to share on this, as I truly believe it is the single most important aspect of fielding combat-worthy soldiers. Something I like to tell people before long runs may halp some younger members on this site; I can yell, scream, push, or I can coddle, encourage, and hold your hand, but everything in life ultimately comes down to personal motivation. If you don't wanna finish the fucking run, you won't finish the fucking run.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.

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