Forums / Gun Discussion / DPMS 5.56x45mm Oracle

3 years 24 weeks ago, 12:46 PM

soullesss

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DPMS 5.56x45mm Oracle

I'm thinking about getting the DPMS 5.56x45mm Oracle from DPMS firearms. The rifle itself is at 709.00 USD for the basic model. I was just wondering if any of you have shot and/or own this firearm. Any information about it would be greatly appreciated.

URL: http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=5632

Thanks in advanced, everyone.

3 years 23 weeks ago, 2:57 PM

tallguy007

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I like

The company never shot theirs but the 5.56x45mm is so post to be a .223 ( some site I was on) so what would the diffrent from it and the nato? If it dose what you want it to do and like you what it to do great have a blast. to many people get hung up and this and that with their stuff.
Was at a gun show one time gun had $300 sks put $400 in to it and the guy told him that it would sell easy for $1200, to me its a $300 rifle ( I did put a M4 stock,new reciver cover for my big scope from my L1A1 fal 308) but know that it will always be what it is and not a $1200 rifle.
ENJOY IT WHAT EVER YOU GET. Great luck let us know what you get and what you think of it. TY

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3 years 23 weeks ago, 5:49 PM

jay sedler

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soulless

its a dpms,not known for being bad,but definatly not the best...im using a dpms barrel,bolt carier on my ar15 build.no probs yet.im not a fan of light contour barrels in general,but that gun has the old standard vietnam era "pencil"type barrel on it.they work...

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3 years 11 weeks ago, 7:28 PM

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You can run both 5.56 and 223 in a 5.56 barrel

You want to get a chrome lined barrel for longer barrel life

chromelined last longer than stainless

5.56 is a thicker casing with more pressure, just get a 5.56 so you can shoot both types of ammo

also get a 1:7 or 1:8 twist and go from there

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3 years 23 weeks ago, 6:39 PM

soullesss

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Will do,

Will do as far as the purchasing information.

But tallguy, there is only a slight difference from 5.56x45mm NATO and 223 REM. From what I've read and researched, the two rounds have two different pressures. Like I said though, thats just from a small amount of trivial research. Could be wrong.

jay sedler; Thanks for the input. I'm not looking for a top of the line AR, just an entry level one that I can accessorize and customize. I intend to change alot on the rifle. The only DPMS parts that I intend to keep on it are the barrel, bolt carrier group, the upper, trigger group, and lower. The gas block, gas tube, muzzle break, hand guard, charging handle, stock, pistol grip and magazines are all getting an up-grade. This has been a project I've been saving towards and putting alot of research into. I'm quite excited about it.

Also jay sedler, If there is anything on the list above (wether it be a part from DPMS that I am keeping that I should change, or a part I am changing that I should keep) that you would change given your DPMS experiences, it is more than welcome.

3 years 23 weeks ago, 7:15 PM

Ishootdaily

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Possible mean over all length for 5.56 is over that of 223 and if you get a Max length 5.56 into the shorter 223 chamber your looking at seating the bullet into the case further and upping the pressure even high. Do it enough and it could really break something or wear out the weapon parts much faster.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 23 weeks ago, 6:52 PM

tallguy007

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M & P 15

Any thing good about them? Last gun show almost got a new one for $700 might try agine lol.

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3 years 23 weeks ago, 7:20 PM

soullesss

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tallguy

The Smith and Wesson M&P 15 was my second choice. It was a close run between the Oracle and M&P15 seeing as they're both 709.00 USD from the company's websites. I've researched the Oracle a whole lot more than I have the M&P15 simply because the Oracle seemed like it would be best for what I had in mind for the AR I would be building.

The biggest thing for me was that it has the fixed rear sight. The fixed front sight I could deal with because I was already planning to change it to a low profile gas block. But I couldn't do anything with that rear sight.

All in all, I read good things about the M&P15. The only negative article I read (Keep in mind I didn't research very hard on this weapon) was on the ORC version. And the only bashing it had was that the rifle gets dirty (All ARs do) and that it had no sights with it (Because it was the ORC version.)

Hope this helped a little.

3 years 23 weeks ago, 7:18 PM

soullesss

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Thanks Ishoot,

I knew it was something with pressure. Just didn't know what it was.

Now, if you have a 5.56 can you shoot 223 just fine? Or do you suggest just not chancing it?

3 years 23 weeks ago, 8:20 PM

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Soulless

yes In a Mil Spec Upper you can shoot either or.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 23 weeks ago, 7:28 PM

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soullesss

im new to the ar15 game myself.taken most of my knowledge from a good friend who as built dozens of them.personaly id really only plan on changing the trigger and pins(i used anti walk pins on mine),any furniture you dont like,muzzle attachment as you see fit,gas block.the gas tube is pretty much the same from all companys,changing the charging handle is in my opinion a waste of money,you can change the latch,but again most handles are basicly the same thing(according to my buddy) that is.the only real differance i know of is the "gas buster"type that supposedly helps protect you from gasses coming through the handle toward your face.never heard of anyone having a prob with this,and never had one recomended to me,and my gun dosnt seem to need it.here is a link to a pri gas buster at midway http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=282711 this is my ar as it sits right now.

my billet ar15
so here is my first ar build,nothin fancy,but ill add on as i go. FEATURES. sonju billet matched gen 3 upper/lower,dpms 1:9 16" barrel,bolt/carier,trigger and handguard.rra buffer and tube.magpul miad grip/moe stock.havent put the freefloat hangguard on yet,waiting to get a scope and backup sights. OTHER FEATURES.sweet ca aproved 10 round magazine locked in by a bullet button plan to build a arger bore upper after completing the work on this one.i have another billet upper/lower and trigger.for my next build.ill start with the upper though so i can use it on my existing lower. this gun is really just for coyotes,and blazing away ammo at the range,was gona use a nikon scope maybe?with a burris one piece scope base.any suggestions on this or any other points?thanks guys.
i still have a ways to go befor its done,but its a home build for aprox 800$ on a billet mached upper/lower.not too bad i think.you can build one for cheaper if you dont use magpul,and billet receivers.

as far as the difference between 5.56 nato/5.56x45 and 223 the difference is slight,but important.5.56x45 is the nato,and is different from the 223 rem in case length 5.56 can be slightly longer here is a pic of nato vs 223 cases

223/5.56
5.56 NATO (outsides) 223 REM (inside) NATO case lengths appox. 1mm longer, do not have mic so I cannot tell the exact dimensions.
the nato has thicker brass im told,and therefore produces higher pressures.223rem may not always fit in the mag of an ar15 because the ar has a tolerance of 2.26" and 223rem may be loaded longer than that.223 can be used in 5.56 cambered weapons,but 5.56 in a 223 chamber may be dangerous.5.56 nato has a longer lead than a 223.223wilde chamber is in beetween 223 and 5.56 specs and fires both equaly well and safely.there are a few good discussions about 223/5.56 as well as a few on ars in general on this sight alredy,try to find them for more facts and opinions.

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3 years 23 weeks ago, 8:44 PM

Anonymous

souless

Great job Jay, That is something to be proud of, I would love to build one, but got my hands full now anyway for a while. But getting great advice and keeping what you know works, even from ISD and all. I am envious, youdaman, JLc

3 years 23 weeks ago, 7:46 PM

soullesss

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jay sedler;

Thanks for the post. Your AR is looking pretty nice so far. As for the points you hit on my plans:

The gas block I am changing to a low profile for a free floated quad rail which will pass over the gas block
The gas tube I am only changing for looks. I am simply getting a blacked out gas block so you won't see it through the handguard.
The muzzle break I am getting is a flash hider/suppressor adapting combo. It looks cool plus it will be there for when (When being the key word) I get a suppressor.
And as for the charging handle, I would just get a bigger latch but I am getting the paratrooper charging handle from brownells. I like the look and have heard good things about it from a buddy of mine who bought one.

Which triggers would you recommend me changing to?

Also; Thanks for the information on the 223 vs 5.56. It was helpful. As for me I'll just stick to what DPMS says to use. There is a bulk ammo supply website and the prices are the same for 223 and 5.56 mostly.

3 years 23 weeks ago, 8:25 PM

jay sedler

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soullesss

im going to upgrade to a timeny trigger later.costs about 2x what a standard ar15 lower parts kit costs,but is super easy to install and remove.(didnt like doing my first ar lower kit) my friend that shoots competition with his ar swears by them,and the ars of his ive checked out all have them,and i want one http://timneytriggers.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Item...

there are lots of other companys out there though,check around
as for ammo,you should be able to shoot 223/5.56 unless your barrel says only 223,then check with the manufacturer.

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3 years 23 weeks ago, 11:31 AM

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jay

Midway is having a sale on Timneys...
http://www.midwayusa.com/Promotion/?promotionid=506566%3F&cm_ven=AR15.co...

Have you considered Geissele?

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
3 years 23 weeks ago, 3:10 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

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Gisele Bundchen?

I have "considered" her plenty of times. If by considered you mean "whacked my pud to". Oh, Geissele triggers? Nevermind. I said nothing. Now slowly backing out of your thread.

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3 years 23 weeks ago, 3:17 PM

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yup

tom brady is a lucky man

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
3 years 23 weeks ago, 3:59 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

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too lucky.

That bastard. If I was him, I would be thanking God several times a day till it was a habit. Like washing your hands after you go to the bathroom.

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3 years 23 weeks ago, 11:39 AM

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reaper

thanks for the heads up, but im broke right now.checked out those other geissele triggers,looks like good stuff also.

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3 years 22 weeks ago, 6:23 PM

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soulless

if you're going to customize the rifle quite a bit, why don't you just build one?

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
3 years 22 weeks ago, 6:31 PM

soullesss

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Reaper308; I would love to! Honestly I would. I'm just lacking the proper guidance. I have the tools ordered (I figured its more important to have those than the parts first). If you have any suggestions on places to get that guidance at it would be GREATLY appreciated.

jey sedler; Those triggers look great. Watched quite a few videos of the installs on youtube as well as read many reviews (I think the link to Midway that Reaper shared had 32 review on it?) I will probably be upgrading to that.

3 years 22 weeks ago, 6:56 PM

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soulless

if you fear the finer more important parts of the job(barrel nut and headspacing) a local gunsmith should be able to square that away for you in about 5-10 min for around 30-45 bucks.ars are seriously as easy as a lego set,but for bigger boys.lol if you already have the tools as you say buffer tube nut wrench,barrel nut wrench,torque wrench,go,no go,field headspace guages,a set of driftpins you should have everything you need.i think the torque on the barrel nut is 30 lbs and then tighten to the next slot for the gas tube to go through,not to exceed 80 lbs????? shouldnt have to apply more than about 50 or so tops id think.you can buy diagrams of complete assembly/disassembly and exploded views for about 5-10 bucks on the net.ive even seen colt armorers sheets posted up for free.im sure someone on gunslot has the sheets.other than the trigger/hammer springs kinda being a little bit of a hastle its super duper easy.if you have and decent knowledge of guns it should come pretty easy to you,and if you served in the military and already know how to feild strip and maintain it it will be only a little more involved than that.once i got familiar with it i flew though the assembly.didnt even use an instruction sheet,and had a few parts left over even...lol.

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3 years 22 weeks ago, 6:37 PM

jay sedler

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good point reaper,thats why i built my own.that way i wasnt throwin a bunch of parts away to upgrade them with what i wanted in the first place.its actualy not all that expensive to build one either.if id gone with forged from same company(most companys price about the same)instead of billet upper/lower i would have been in the neighborhood of about 650-800.i didnt keep my recipts,so all i know is im about 800+ right now.im gona build all my ars now that ive done one,and see how easy it is,and how much time and money you save there is no reason for me to ever buy one complete.(thats what i say now) hahaha......

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3 years 22 weeks ago, 6:45 PM

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jay sedler;

I'm seeing that myself now too lol. I just realized that I would only be keeping the barrel upper and lower receiver and bolt carrier group. What uppers and lowers do you have, jay?

3 years 22 weeks ago, 7:13 PM

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responded to your question of building info already.there are some guys on here that know waaay more than me,ask around for even more info. i have two different billet mached sets from sonju si defese.they are actualy a shop in montana that builds aircraft parts for the gov,boing,and stuff like that so i trusted their ability to build a reciever set.they fit verry tightly with no movement.look in my pics to see both sets i have gen 2,and gen 3.gen 3 is the one ive already built.these guys offer different colors and failzero dry no lube coating too.heres a couple links this first is a cool vid of the billit standard gen1 lower being made.kinda fun to watch http://sonju.net/made.html

this will take you to billet gen 3,remember they also offer forged. http://shop.si-defense.com/Matched_Receiver_Sets_s/51.htm

ive had good luck with this company,and they have gone out of their way to treat me good.only saw one negative post about them ever,and i think the guy was prob just a whiner complainer anyway.my brother says he wached a show on the history channel i think it was where they put it up against other ar type rifles the new hk,colt....guess it got good reviews.been trying to find that vid.

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3 years 22 weeks ago, 7:22 PM

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jay sedler;

Thanks for the links. I did like the video of the receivers being made. I really like these receivers but with our earlier conversation about the difference between 5.56 and 223, I think I would like to have a 5.56. I'll definitely start looking around.

Is there anything special you have to do with the ATF since you're building it yourself?

3 years 22 weeks ago, 7:57 PM

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the receiver itself dosnt matter as far as 5.56/223 goes. its not till you get into large bores that the reciever will need modification.nothing special as far as the atf goes,just talk to your local ffl,have them fax a coppy of their ffl liscence to the ar manufacturer of your choice,pay,and have them ship to your local shop.not sure about the specifics,but i think you need to have a multi cal or multi use marked lower to use different calibers.for instance i dont think you can use a 7.62x39 upper on a lower marked 223/5.56.not sure on this.and since you are building a rifle you dont have to worry about the pistol registration bs.the 5.56/223 conversation we had earlier really only applies to the barrel.that is what will allow or not allow you to use certain kinds of ammo.just buy a 5.56 or a wylde barrel if you want to shoot both 223 and 5.56.just looked at sonjus website...they dont show the colors they offer anymore.they do still offer 5 different coatings though.

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3 years 22 weeks ago, 9:05 PM

soullesss

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jay sadler;

Thanks. I didn't know about all of that. So what will I have to go through my dealer to have ordered? Just the receivers?

And can I have the parts ordered through the dealer sent to my home address?

Sorry to be flooding you with questions lol.

3 years 22 weeks ago, 9:27 PM

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You can purchase a whole AR kit and have it delivered to your home, the receiver has to ship to an FFL.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 22 weeks ago, 9:47 PM

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isd

do you or anyone else know the legality of using say 7.62x39 upper on a lower marked 223/5.56 for instance?i dont know for sure,but i was pretty sure you werent suposed to do that.

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3 years 22 weeks ago, 11:53 PM

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Following Federal Regulations you can put any upper you like on a lower and be Legal with their rules. The Length will dictate if it is something you need to get a Tax Stamp before doing.

The issue comes with what State you are in, you have to check that out before doing any purchasing. If you purchase a Upper and have in it your possession while in California and it is not on the acceptable list that the California DOJ has made up your breaking a the State Firearms Laws.

Lots of things have changed back and forth over time, but here is where it all stands at this point.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=504&invol=505 What constitutes a Pistol / Rifle

http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2009/07/070709-openletter-ffl-gca.pdf Information on BATF Firearm Frame or Receiver Regulations

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 22 weeks ago, 11:59 PM

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thanks isd.was just curious about the caliber stamp.out here we cant have .50 bmg upper,and cant make most pistol configurations,but other than that we are ok.except the 10 rnd mags,and bullet button bullshit that is.i wasnt for sure,but i remember hearing years ago you had to use one stamped multi use or multi cal to make pistols,or change caliber.maybe thats just another cali law,or a law that has been phased out or maybe its just a gun myth.lol

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3 years 22 weeks ago, 12:11 AM

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Multi-Caliber

Lots of things have changed, will change again and will change for the first time...

Hell, BATF knows all it's regulations and yet they attempt to weasel around, under and over them all the time for *Special Purpose* and *Emergency Rulings*, blah blah blah....

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 22 weeks ago, 12:47 PM

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noooo...they wouldnt do that,they are just looking out for uor safety,making sure nobody makes automatic assult weapons out of airsoft guns and such.lol

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3 years 22 weeks ago, 9:29 PM

jay sedler

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soulless

no problem dude...i was full of questions when i started.lots of people helped me.only the lower has to go through an ffl.all other parts can be ordered directly to your home.id forget trying to order through your local shop,unless you really like them because they usualy tack on a little for every part,and dont usualy inform you about available products because they see it as wasting time.at least in my experiances.id just get a multi marked lower just to be safe incase you ever do want another caliber.i bought all my own parts off the net,except what i got for x mas that is.you can pay for any lower you want and have the seller or manufacturer you buy from contact your local ffl,or have them contact your seller,its just that easy.all other parts can go straight to your house from the net or catalog order wich is what id recomend.this way you look at allot of products quickly and when you find what you want shop for the cheapest price and have it shipped.just remember to shop around,and the manufacturer dosnt always sell it for the lowest price either.

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3 years 22 weeks ago, 9:32 PM

jay sedler

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forgot to mention

your local shop will charge you a catch fee to ship the lower to them,but its usualy worth it,unless they already have what you want in stock and at a lower price.

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3 years 22 weeks ago, 10:31 PM

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jay sadler;

Thanks again for all of the great info. I'll look into the multi caliber stamp on the lower. The only other caliber I can for see using on this system would be a little .22 LR just for practicing and playing. I guess it all depends on what the rules/laws are for the lower.

Good news about this change in strategy (Building the rifle instead of customizing) is that most of my research is done. Just have to find the lower, upper, bolt carrier group, and barrel. I'm starting to look into Ambi Safety Selector Switch from DPMS now.

Do you know if the Upper/Lower set from SI Defense has any of the lower assembly parts or do I need to look into a Lower Assembly Parts kit as well?

3 years 22 weeks ago, 11:16 PM

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si lower

you can have them ship it with your lower if you want it from them.they may even install it for free.they gave me some free parts and installed them no charge.they will actualy build you a whole rifle to your specs if you wanted to go that way actualy,and they do offer a complete lower with grip buffer/tube,stock and trigger group installed for about 300,but id advise buying the parts seperatly to save money.you can buy most any lower and upper for 250-300 or less,and a standard lower parts kit is 85-100 usualy depending on the stock you want you can get stock and buffer/tube for 70-300 depending on what you want.barrel shouldnt be more than 100-200,and a bolt and carier should run around 100 for a standard mill spec.here is a link. bravo company has good prices on some parts but their barrels are spendy for mil spec in my opinion
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR-15-Upper-Receiver-Bolt-Carrier-Parts-s...
delton has good prices on rifle kits,just be sure you know what manufacturers parts they use in the kits.
http://www.del-ton.com/AR_15_Barrels_s/3.htm
dez arms has great prices on "mach barrels" custom fluting,target crowned and hand laped bore,they are still button rifled though.someone turned me onto them a while back.was actualy thinking of using one of their barrels myself,they have other parts too. http://www.dezarms.com/
dont rush into anything,take your time and make sure you know what you want before you order,happy hunting!

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
3 years 22 weeks ago, 1:18 PM

soullesss

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jay;

Thanks for the links. I believe I'm going to be using the SI recievers (I'm leaning more towards forged with a completed Upper) and a DEZ Arms 16" Barrel. I also am looking at getting the DPMS lower assembly parts kit minus the trigger (Removes about 30 bucks) and a Timney Trigger which you shared. Now I'm just looking into the bolt carrier group.

Do you know the difference between an Auto and Semi bolt?

3 years 22 weeks ago, 1:29 PM

jay sedler

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not sure on the differance between auto and semi auto bolts,maybe you can post it as a question...there is a slight differance in shape and weight,but not sure what it is.si isnt the only manufacturer out there for a decent price either.many companys offer forged at a similar price.same goes for barrels.have fun,good luck!

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3 years 22 weeks ago, 2:14 PM

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http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?Itemid=42&id=29&option=com_content&task...

The above link will explain it all as far as the difference and telling them apart.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 22 weeks ago, 3:40 PM

Reaper308

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M16/AR bolt

you can use a full auto M16 bolt in an semi AR rifle. As a matter of fact, it is recommended. I suggest looking at BCM or daniel defense for a bcg (bolt carrier group). Also, BCM or LMT for upper and bbl. They have upper/bbl/ rail packages at BCM. If you have more $$, noveske makes good bbls. I would suggest LMT for parts kit if you can find it. They come with a decent 2 stage trigger. RRA also has a 2 stage kit. All forged lowers will be pretty similar and all billet lowers will be similar.

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
3 years 22 weeks ago, 8:53 PM

jay sedler

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good point reaper,dont want him to buy a si defense just cuz some guy on the net (me) has one,want him to look for himself,and find his own lower/upper.im happy with my choice,and really happy with si customer service,but that dosnt mean they are the best.

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3 years 22 weeks ago, 11:55 AM

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jay

yeah I agree, its always best to shop around, read reviews, and try them out for yourself if possible. Unfortunately I've never even seen a SI lower in person, so I can't comment on them... but from your experience it sounds like they're pretty good. If I was personally going to buy a billet lower it would probably be a Sun Devil or LaRue, but that's just me. There are plenty of good ones out there and in the end, its just a lower. There are a lot more important and unique parts, meaning most lowers will work and be fairly similar, but there are large differences in triggers, bbls, parts, bolts, etc...

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
3 years 22 weeks ago, 12:06 PM

jay sedler

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reaper

although im happy with my choice,dosnt mean anyone else would be.hope this guy takes his time and dosnt rush into anything.barrels are sertainly more important than the rest or the parts because lets face it,if your barrel sucks its never gonna be verry acurate.

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3 years 22 weeks ago, 12:13 PM

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Jay

just took a look at their products and it looks to be a nice Lower. Also that adjustable low profile 4 rail gas block looks very interesting and it is under $50.00 too.

now I have to think about SD 308 lower or SI 308 lower...

Liking the looks of this also.

A completely assembled, ready to install AR-15 Bolt and Carrier System. Kit includes six critical parts that are treated with ;EXO Technology, a revolutionary surface technology that provides permanent dry lubricity, radically improves the performance of your AR-15 and eliminates the need to apply oil or grease to treated parts for the life of the weapon. Treated parts include; Bolt, Bolt Carrier, Hammer, Extractor, Cam Pin, Carrier Key. This kit has fired over 11K rounds in a standard anodized upper. Quality features include:

* Case Hardened, Shot Peened and MPI Bolt (Magnetic Particle Inspected)
* EXO Coated Bolt (40% more wear resistant than Chrome with a very Low Coefficient of Friction)
* Mil-Spec Gas Rings
* EXO Coated Carrier
* Chrome Lined Gas Key
* Gas Key Hardened to USGI Specifications
* Grade 8 Hardened Fasteners
* Blue Extractor Insert
* Mil-Spec Staked Gas Key
* Firing Pin and retainer

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 22 weeks ago, 12:28 PM

jay sedler

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you can buy the same bolt set from fail zero.that is the company that holds the patent on the dry lube coating.they also offer it for other weapons,glocks 1911s.....and if you want you can get the coating in black from them,but si only offers the grey color http://www.failzero.com/ did you see si offers multiple color options,and has an ar10 that accepts hk g3 mags? kinda nifty little idea.

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3 years 22 weeks ago, 12:29 PM

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I need to check their products out.

Going to go through the Tantal a couple of pistols and a 308 in the next few months.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 22 weeks ago, 12:33 PM

Reaper308

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fail zero

I was talking to a FZ employee at SHOT for quite a while. One of the other employees there said that he's had an EXO treated bolt and carrier in his personal rifle for something like 60,000 rds with no lube and no failures. I would like to have one of those BCG's. He also said they are going to start offering another pistol but it hasn't release it yet... its the same kind that sytasyn wants night sights for...

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
3 years 22 weeks ago, 12:39 PM

jay sedler

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isd,reaper

they clim a guarantee of somthing like 50,00 rnds with just the carier being plated,but it goes even higher if the upper reciever is plated too.a couple ar companys offer uppers/lowers with this plating now.

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3 years 22 weeks ago, 1:40 PM

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Jay

it would be nice if they applied the finish to weapons sent in...

I will make sure I check into the 308 components come that time...

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 22 weeks ago, 2:29 PM

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ISD

I'm pretty sure you can send something in to be coated. I'm not sure if you send it to Fail Zero or directly to UCT Coatings

http://www.uctcoatings.com/

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
3 years 22 weeks ago, 2:51 PM

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Reaper

Thanks for the UCT link. I'll check into that too along with Bar-Sto. I get thos pistol build going I'll have to document it and post.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 22 weeks ago, 3:56 PM

Ishootdaily

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The ones you see every now and then in Shot Gun News and other magazines and web sites. Wonder if they are completely pre-ban or not, full auto carrier and bolt and such. Where all you would have to do is get a DIAS to make it select fire...

DIAS (drop in auto sear) for anyone not knowing what it is....

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 22 weeks ago, 8:55 PM

jay sedler

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isd...

as far as i know with my limited newguy knowledge,you must have the hammer,safe selecter,sear,and trigger to make it work as auto,or 3 rnd burst.just what i think i know.

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3 years 22 weeks ago, 9:13 PM

Ishootdaily

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not including the fact that you can purchase the whole trigger group on line any time you like.

But some of the DIAS's do not need any changes or third hole drilled to functions beyond dropping it in place.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 22 weeks ago, 9:19 PM

jay sedler

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WOW!!!!

you can buy all that without a class 3 #??????seriously?how do they controll autos then?

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3 years 22 weeks ago, 9:43 PM

jay sedler

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all i thought i knew is that auto parts required a larger pin hole,and the hammer/trigger/disconecter was different...cant belive its so easy to order auto parts.dont know what 3rd hole you are refering to though.i know the older auto colts had a "pin in" block of some sort.......

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3 years 22 weeks ago, 10:50 PM

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Jay, Parts

Read the links I posted earlier and it will explain it all.

But suffice it to say, there are Federal and State regulations you have to meet. Such as just possessing a Pistol Mag higher than 10 rounds in California, yet by Federal Law there isn't any restriction.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 22 weeks ago, 11:09 PM

jay sedler

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isd...thanks

ill check your posted links for info.you are a good info source.

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3 years 22 weeks ago, 4:22 PM

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DIAS

I was about to ask. So then you could find a DIAS for (hopefully) a decent price, get the ATF stamp, and have a full auto AR for less than buying a complete full auto?

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 22 weeks ago, 4:27 PM

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DIAS, pretty much, yes

Here is a link you might like poking around...

http://www.quarterbore.com/

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 22 weeks ago, 11:27 AM

Saint J.M. Browning

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ISD

Sweetness. Thanks my friend.

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3 years 22 weeks ago, 6:06 PM

soullesss

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Jay;

Thanks for the link to EXO. I had taken note of the treated BCG from SI but I didn't like the grey. Its good to know that there is a black option. I'm about to look into those and a treated upper (Somehow I passed that option earlier).

3 years 22 weeks ago, 6:45 PM

soullesss

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Also Jay;

You said that you can order the bolt from FailZero with the EXO coat with a black finish? I was just searching their site and was unable to see anything about the coating option from them or a black one.

3 years 22 weeks ago, 4:09 AM

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soulless

here ya go.
AR-15 Extreme Duty Kit Product Number 009-FZAR15-02
AR-15 Extreme Kit

A completely assembled, ready to install AR-15 Bolt* and Carrier System, including an Upper Receiver and charging handle for extreme duty use. Kit includes eight critical parts that are treated with EXO Technology, a revolutionary surface technology that provides permanent dry lubricity, radically improves performance of your AR-15 and eliminates the need to apply oil or grease to treated parts for the life of the weapon. Treated parts include all stated in Basic Kit with the addition of Upper Receiver and Charging Handle. This kit will have a life of over 30K rounds. Quality features include:

* features stated in Basic Kit, plus:
* A3/A4 EXO fully coated Upper Receiver w/M4 feed ramps (matte grey finish, black finish available for an additional $20)
* EXO coated Charging Handle
http://www.failzero.com/armory/ar-15.html

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3 years 22 weeks ago, 2:25 PM

soullesss

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Jay;

Thanks for the link. I was in a bit of hurry last night and failed to read the part about the black coating for an additional twenty dollars lol.

3 years 22 weeks ago, 6:41 PM

jay sedler

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no problem.hows the hunt going?

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3 years 22 weeks ago, 7:22 PM

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Its going.

Still looking through uppers, lowers, BCGs, and barrels. As well as lower and upper parts kits. My biggest issue is the struggle between getting the most expensive, top of the line uppers and lowers and getting a good and affordable upper and lower yet not the best of the best.

3 years 22 weeks ago, 6:53 PM

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If you're interested... As you know there are shit tons of sites buy buy AR parts and accessories. You should be able to find almost anything you need at either of the sites below. I tend to use these the most out of everyone.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/

http://www.rainierarms.com/

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
3 years 22 weeks ago, 7:23 PM

soullesss

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Reaper;

Thanks for the links. I've mainly been using brownells but I need some fresh sites.

3 years 22 weeks ago, 7:46 PM

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soullesss

I use Brownells too. If you're interested, I'll let you know what I'm working on... If you don't care, stop reading now. I said now. now. I'm working on another rifle currently because I want a 1:7 for heavier rounds. I keep putting $$ in other shit, and I REALLY need a LMT MWS, but I'll finish this thing someday (MWS may come first). I'm going with a 14.5" 1:7 chrome lined BCM BFH barrel with mid length gas (mid length is a lot smoother than carbine) and BCM upper. Noveske makes a really nice barrel, but they're not cheap and if I went with them I would go SS, not CL. Vltor makes good uppers too. I think I'll get a daniel defense handguard on this because I already have a LaRue (which is sweet) unless I make this as a truck rifle, then I'll go with something cheaper like a YHM. I'll get a LMT LPK if I can find one. They are hard to come across sometimes, so I may have to buy a LMT complete lower to get the parts. I was planning on getting a LMT or Noveske lower anyway, unless I go billet, then Sun Devil or LaRue. I'll probably go with a BCM BCG, but Daniel Defense's are good too. I would really like one of those fail zero's but I'll have to see if I can afford it. BCM/Vltor gunfighter for the charging handle. Vltor makes a nice buffer tube, so I'll have to wait and see if I buy a complete lower from LMT or not. I know I sound like a BCM jockey, but their stuff is top notch. You can thank LBC, he turned me on to them. I would say they are up in Colt's class, but you're not paying for the name. These are just the manufacturers that I like. There is tons of other good stuff out there. Here are a couple member's rifles you you can get some ideas... have fun!
http://www.gunslot.com/forum/ar-pics-thread

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
3 years 22 weeks ago, 9:17 PM

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i started drooling

about midway thru your post Reaper,are you keeping it at 14.5 or adding a suppressor ?

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
3 years 22 weeks ago, 10:29 PM

soullesss

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I'm with LBC

That sounds like a pretty sweet setup you've got planned out. I'm ashamed to say that I hadn't heard about LMT until earlier today when I picked up a copy of this months "Book of the AR-15" today. It had an article about their L129A1 7.62 NATO rifle and how it won them a contract through the British Ministry of Defense.

I'm just now finishing up my research into what I want in my AR project. I'm pretty sure I listed what I planned on doing in a post above (Somewhere...) but just in case here it goes.

I haven't settled on a barrel, upper, BCG, lower, of parts kit for the upper and lower. But as for the rest I'm looking to get the GemTech G5 suppressor adapter/Flash hider, a Troy Industries Low Profile Gas Block, A Yankee Hill Machine Blacked-Out Gas tube (Simply for the blacked out look), a Timney AR-15 drop in trigger group, a Magpul Aluminum Trigger Guard, A Command Arms Pistol Grip, a Magpul UBR Buttstock, a 12" AR-15 Lite-Rail from Daniel Defense, the Para-trooper charging handle from Brownells, an Accu-Wedge (Just in case), A Magpul B.A.D. Lever, an Ambi Safety Selector from DPMS, and the MGrip2 from Command Arms.

As for the accessories I want to get the PMAGs from Magpul, The Magpul ladder rail covers, the Magpul AFG, the Magpul Sling attachments (RSA and ASAP), Magpul MBUS, and (I'm not sure which one I should choose. Suggestions would be awesome lol) either the StrikeFire with KillFlash from Vortex or the EOTech 512A65.

Like I mentioned earlier I'm leaning towards getting forged upper and lower receivers from SI Defense, The SI lower receiver parts kit (The upper receiver will be already complete), A DEZ 16" H-Bar Barrel, and finally I'm favoring the BCM Auto BCG.

Thoughts and/or suggestions? (Assuming you could bare to read through all of that lol).

3 years 22 weeks ago, 11:37 PM

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sounds cool to me.maybe check into sarern barrels.kinda on the higher side,but i hear only great things about them. http://www.saternmachining.com/

these guys are members,isd recomended them in another post a while back. http://deltacompanyarms.com/

you might also be interested in this guys stuff. http://www.jprifles.com/ they make some really sweet adjustable gas blocks,and low mass bcgs.....lots of goodies.

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
3 years 22 weeks ago, 1:04 PM

Reaper308

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black rifles

LBC- for now, I'll probably just pin something on the end to make it a legal 16.1". I may get a can someday.

soullesss- your rifle sounds sweet. The LMT MWS that I'm getting is the civi version of the L129A1 that you read about. Most all companies that have mil contracts like FN, Colt, LMT, Sabre, etc... have really good stuff because they have to go through pretty strenuous testing. The rest of the stuff you listed sounds pretty good. Another member has a G5, if he reads this he can chime in and give you a quick review. You probably want an adjustable gas block of some kind if you're running suppressed. I know he's toying with a gas pedal. That DD 12" lite rail is nice. I think I'm going to leave the front sight post/gas block on this one, so I'll probably go with the same DD rail in 9" (I already have a 12" LaRue w/ LaRue low pro block). I've never played with the para trooper charging handle but I suggest you at least look at the BCM/Vltor gunfighter charging handle. It's definitely the nicest one I've ever used. If you're trying to save a little $$, Spikes makes a lower that will work good and its not too expensive, you can even customize them. Research a little into Noveske barrels, also LMT or BCM. I like tham all.

Jay- JP makes good parts. I would suggest looking into them also. Did you use any JP parts in your rifle?

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
3 years 22 weeks ago, 4:28 PM

jay sedler

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reaper,jp parts

no, i didnt.my buddy swears by jp low mass bcg's and buffer systems and gas systems.im going to probably use jp gas block myself when i go to a rifle length handguard.also have been told their basic single stage triggers are verry good for the 100$ you spend.thought about using one of those maybe.still think the timeny is gona be what i use though.

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
3 years 22 weeks ago, 2:50 PM

soullesss

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Reaper;

Thanks for the suggestions. Between you and Jay I had to make a list and now I'm going through the different suggestions and checking them out lol.

3 years 22 weeks ago, 4:40 PM

soullesss

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Update

Just a little update, I went through the suggestions that y'all made and am looking into changing quite a few parts. I fell in love with Spike's Lower Receivers.

I am looking into changing the upper to the Spike's Tactical M4 Upper, The lower to the Spikes Tactical forged spider lower with the bullet safety markings (Stripped), Changed to the spikes enhanced lower parts kit (This includes the ambi-safety as well as an enhanced trigger guard instaead of the one from Magpul. It also includes an ergo-grip which I figured I would try before I get the Command Arms grip).

I decided against the paratrooper charging handle simply because there was not enough reviews on it. Didn't want to pay 100 dollars for something that wasn't even going to work well in the first place.

Also I was wondering what exactly a latch plate was for? I'm guessing it has to do with the detent spring and detent at the rear of the lower receiver.

3 years 22 weeks ago, 4:57 PM

jay sedler

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soullesss

cool.glad you did some reaserch and found for yourself what you like.spikes has allot of different options to choose from.if you are getting a forged,and you want another option stark has a couple cool grips with integral trigger guards http://www.starkequipment.com/
or if you use a fde magpull miad ill give you the front strap with integral trigger guard they no longer offer for free,if i still have it.

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!

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