Forums / Strategies, Tactics & Training / Georgi Chuikov, the Forgotten General of the Second World War from Ryo and Ryu

8 years 27 weeks ago, 9:18 AM

LittleDragon

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Ryo and little brother Ryu would like to know if anyone on Gunslot would be interested in an article from us about the tactics used by Field Marshall Georgi Chuikov of the Russian Army in command at Stalingrad. He is the inventor of the concept of "Hugging Combat" and he also coined the phrase. Since he could not defeat or defend against the longer range Nazi weaponry, he chose to get in close, and by this he meant less than 50 meters, so that the Nazis could not use their long range weaponry. He was surrounded by Field Marshall von Paulus of the Nazi Army at Stalingrad with 350,000 troops of the Nazi 6th Army Corps. The Nazi were equipped with state of the art, at the time, of long range weaponry. They had precision radar guided artillery and the massive Tiger and King Tiger tanks along with the brand new, and btw the best tank produced by any side in the war, Panzer IV tanks. They had rockets and long range heavy 8 inch mortars. In fact von Paulus had everything on his side. In the end however Chuikov defeated and destroyed in order the entire 6th Army Group of the Nazis and von Paulus was forced to surrender.
This hugging combat concept has been further developed today by the Israeli forces and also by the US Marine Corps as well as the Singaporean Defense Force and btw, it is still in use today by the Russian Army.
If you are interested in an article of this nature please let us know.

Your friends,

LittleDragon and Little Brother

Moshi Moshi from LittleDragon
8 years 27 weeks ago, 10:13 AM

ivantank

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..BEING A HISTORY BUFF, this would make a great read..maybe your research can tell us if this military concept is taught in the military academy. good luck and waiting to hear from you both

I have reasons for the things I do, just don't expect them to be reasonable
8 years 26 weeks ago, 7:58 AM

LLE

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They have a series on battlfield Commanders. Zhiukov is one of them.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
8 years 27 weeks ago, 10:46 AM

LittleDragon

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ivantank san

thank you very much for your interest. we hope enough people at Gunslot will be interest too so that ryu kun and self can proceed with article as soon as we finish coming article on the Bionix II system from Singapore.

Your friends,

LittleDragon and Little Brother

Moshi Moshi from LittleDragon
8 years 27 weeks ago, 11:45 AM

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LD

I would be interested in reading your article. I love all WWII era history. Any info on Vassili Zaitsev?

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
8 years 27 weeks ago, 11:55 AM

LittleDragon

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vassili zaitsev was a hero of the former soviet union and was personally awarded the both the Cross of Peter the Great as well as the Citation of Merit as a Hero of the Soviet Union, the highest military award given during the second world war in the former soviet union during this war. no article about Field Marshall Georgi Chuikov and his brilliant defense of the city of Stalingrad would be complete without to include a section on Vassili Zaitsev.
rest assure we will include.

your friends alway,

LittleDragon and Little Brother

Moshi Moshi from LittleDragon
8 years 27 weeks ago, 1:49 PM

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LittleDragon

Would like to see what information you have about General Georgi Chuikov from WW II. Should be very interesting.

"WAR IS A RACKET, I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street, and for the Bankers." Major-General Smedley Darlington Butler USMC Ret. 2 time Medal of Honor winner.
8 years 27 weeks ago, 2:01 PM

LittleDragon

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victor chan

arigato goziemasu for you support of our new project. we think enough people will be interest in project for it to be worth the effort. this will be a long and fact based article that we hope will show people the value of Georgi Chuikov's contribution to modern military science.

your friends,

LittleDragon and Little Brother

Moshi Moshi from LittleDragon
8 years 27 weeks ago, 9:34 AM

runawaygun762

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This type of combat

is very difficult to train and equip against, especially when you are engaged in high-intensity (as opposed to precision and surgical) urban combat. Bombing whole cities creates rubble which leaves more hiding places and good booby trap sites than leaving the buildings intact. And since tanks can't elevate their main guns much more than 20 degrees up and 5 degrees down, armor without extensive infantry support is a sitting duck for an number of munitions

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
8 years 27 weeks ago, 11:48 AM

LittleDragon

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runawaygun san

ryu kun and self plan to cover some of these aspects in the article we have in mind. we just have some starting notes and have had discussions about things like exactly what to focus on in the article. so far we have decided to focus on the concept itself and how it is effective against heavy forces arrayed against that have heavy battle tanks and high power precision artillery. and yes you are right that it is very difficult to train regular troops and to equip them properly to defend themselves against close in hugging attacks.
For example, at the Beslan School in Beslan in Russia, the Russian forces, who are well equipped with long range weaponry and heavy tanks and IAVs, did not surround the school occupied by the terrorists at a distance, for fear of killing and hurting the innocent inside that were held captive. no indeed, instead they used IAVs to bring in both special forces troops, the MVD, and the Stasi and put their soldiers right up against the very walls of the school. in effect, they got in close and hugged the school building even though they knew the danger this meant. and when the terrorist finaly lost their leader in an accidental explosion, they were demoralized and the russian forces did not hesitate or hold back. locked and loaded the Stasi led the way in with guns blazing. the terrorists set off their bombs and began to shoot back, but then hundreds of elite russian troops swarmed like ants into the school and the final shootout was over in seconds. most of the innocent dead were already killed before the russian forces moved in so their tactics did not cause but a small amount on innocent deaths. they did what they thought was right and it worked. all the bad guys were dead and the large majority of the innocent were saved. these russians special forces along with their CIA like forces such as the Stasi and the MVD are very expert at the tactics learned from Stalingrad and invented by Georgi Chuikov.

Your friend,

LittleDragon

Moshi Moshi from LittleDragon
8 years 27 weeks ago, 11:57 AM

runawaygun762

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The Russians in Beslan

did not do well. The three keys to a successful hostage rescue, as many people have undoubtedly heard, are speed, surprise, and controlled violence of action. The Russians' decision to use a show of force by driving their T-72 down the middle of the street to establish blocking positions. of course the other key that doesn't sound as cool as the other three is good intelligence, and the Russians failed at this also. In their defense, however, the terrorists saw their deaths as being as much of a success as any other outcome, and when fighting an enemy that doesn't care for his life, your difficulty goes up astronomically.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
8 years 27 weeks ago, 1:21 PM

LittleDragon

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much of what you say is right, however in defense of the russian forces they were confronted with a situation that staggered the imaginations of their leardership, in particular their political leadership. they simply were not prepared for an attack on innocent school children and so for the first day a show of force was the only thing anyone could think to do. but by the second day the Stasi had the terrorist endgame figured out. they knew the terrorists intended to die as "martyrs", and so the Stasi, working closely with the MVD and the Army Special Forces knew what they were going to have to do and that yes innocents would die, but if they hit hard enough and fast enough then they could limit the number of deaths of innocents as much as possible. they did have some intelligence about what was going on inside, but this came mostly from descriptions of young children who had managed to sneak away and escape. with just this for intel and no way to insert real intelligence officers into the site unseen, their hands were tied. they knew that maybe ALL the children would be killed and rather than allow this, it was decided on the morning of the third day, that no matter what they would assault the school with extreme violence and deadly force in order just to save as many of the innocents as they could. and considering what they were up against, they did well. the vast majority of the children were indeed saved, even though there is no doubt that almost all of those poor children will be scarred for life. however, if you have seen any of the documentaries that have been done on this, almost every child believes their russian rescuers were real heros and the survivors are at least alive and in time, because most of the children were so young, in time it will fade and hopefully they will grow up to be better off than they are now. i'm sure any Special Forces confronted with the same situation and the hesitation of their political leaders on the first day, could not have done any better. this sort of thing was a specialty of my pops you know.

your friend,

LittleDragon

Moshi Moshi from LittleDragon
8 years 27 weeks ago, 1:09 PM

runawaygun762

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Beslan school

I'm not sure any elite force could have done much better given the desire of the terrorists to die rather than negotiate, but for a federal/military force to get caught that short is inexcusable. Also inexcusable is the lack of ability of the ATF to resolve the Branch Davidian standoff in Waco, Texas, and i would actually have rather had the Russian forces do that, as they at least tried to save the lives of children, as opposed to burning everybody. I have participated in modern urban combat, and I know how stressful it is to keep pushing through multiple buildings, each room being a potential miniature battlefield, and even after my experiences, trying to add the stress of having to differentiate between hostage and terrorist seems like a hughe undertaking. I have trained on hostage rescue as part of a military police Special Reaction Team, but haven't had to do it for real. While the Russians' assault was, in my eyes, a failure, it was ultimately going to go badly no matter who executed it.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
8 years 27 weeks ago, 1:36 PM

LittleDragon

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but a failure? no, not really. most if not all of those children would have been murdered anyway. that was the terrorist plan. to make a statement the world would not forget. how misguided and nutzoid is that neh. is it any wonder that there is little or no support for Chechnya today from around the world ka after the theatre attack in Moscow and then the attack on innocent children in Beslan, it's difficult to see any good on the side of Chechnya. if they have greivance then there are better way to resolve than to attack and murder innocent children to make a point to the world neh. but as long as they continue to use such methods they are just murdering thugs and have no legitimacy and no cause to expect mercy from the Russian people. there can be no mercy for people who plan, fund, execute or support in any way at all the murder of innocent children. over 370 children and some parents and older relatives of the children were killed. but over 2000 were saved. 2000 who still have lives and some chance at a future. this is hardly a failure. it not a grand success. but it not a failure either. ryo will never forget the half naked and many who were completely naked children running out of the buildings of the school and jumping out of windows and many of them wounded and covered in blood and gore. who could not be sicken by this neh. and yet naked and bleeding and frighten almost to death they escape as the russian forces moved in to finish off the terrorist and free the children. ryo could not but think as wretched and horrible as these sights look, at least they were alive. and those 2000 who live have their rescuers to thank. otherwise, most likely they would all be dead.

your friend,

LittleDragon

Moshi Moshi from LittleDragon
8 years 21 weeks ago, 12:40 PM

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I am not a commie and not a Russophile. But I really think that we in the west are under a big misconception that "we whipped the Nazis" by ourselves. The German Army was defeated more in the East than in the West. More troops and armor (and Air) were commited to the Eastern Campaign than to the west. We did our share, without a doubt, but we were fighting an army that had already been severly blooded by the Red Army. We need to study and learn just how badly the USSR was hurt by the Nazis and how gallantly the Russians fought back. I for one feel that Staligrad was the greatest stand by one city in history.

By the way I am first generation American and I had had kinfolk on both sides during WWII.

Walter Johann Hofman

8 years 21 weeks ago, 12:46 PM

LittleDragon

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Ryo and little brother are currently researching article to post on the forum about Marshal Chuikov and his brilliant defense of the city of Stalingrad. ryo have say many times that what Midway was in the Pacific Theatre of the war, Stalingrad was in the OstFront of the European War. Chuikov was only Lieutenant General at the time he was in command of the Soviet forces at Stalingrad, and it was only later in his career that he was promoted to Marshal.

Your new friend,

LittleDragon

Moshi Moshi from LittleDragon

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