Forums / Gun Discussion / Handgun Cartridge Power Chart

3 years 51 weeks ago, 11:22 AM

daisycutter

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I thought I could copy/paste the chart here but it turned to shiite when I tried.
Go to this web site.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm

iyaoyas
3 years 51 weeks ago, 11:35 AM

Reaper308

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one stop shot

wow, there seems to be some discrepancy regarding one stop shot percentage. The chuck hawks chart has many of the common carry rounds in the high 80's-90's percentile, while the chart below has the same calibers in the 40's-50's.
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
3 years 51 weeks ago, 11:50 AM

daisycutter

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`

iyaoyas
3 years 51 weeks ago, 12:16 PM

TXLUCKYGUY

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OSS data

OSS data is a flawed concept to begin with. In any data pool like this, the FBI DSU or someone else can provide anecdotal data where the same caliber, maybe even same round, failed miserably.

Few if any of these %-based predictions factor in barrier performance (for instance plenty of .223 rounds hit the occupants of vehicle in multiple shootings, but did not 'stop' them due to lost weight/size), and 'torso hit' is a VERY oversimplified and inaccurate datum.

There are also plenty of people that stop/drop/shut up when shot due to simple psychological reasons instead of legitimate physical incapacitation. Reducing anything as complex as a gunfight to simple numbers may help sell ammo or guns, but it is only a miniscule portion of the equation.

MINDSET, Tactics, platform, caliber, ammunition......in order of descending importance.

3 years 51 weeks ago, 1:36 PM

daisycutter

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You won't have to concern yourself about bullet performance just put it into center of the target and shoot 'til she stops going bang.

iyaoyas
3 years 51 weeks ago, 9:21 PM

coppertop

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How does the 230 grain .45 have a lower % than the 102 grain .380? According to this chart, I'm just as good with my ppk as I am with my 1911. Just doesn't seem right.

3 years 51 weeks ago, 9:26 PM

luckybychoice

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and your question will answer itself.

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
3 years 51 weeks ago, 10:28 PM

coppertop

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Looked at both links and they both have the .380 in the 102 grain beating the 230 grain .45. If shot in the head, a .22 would work fine. However, in a fluid situation even the best of us may pull the shot. The more powerful the round the greater the margin of error. What this says is that a goat will go down with one hit about the same with these 2 loads. I'm sure I'm missing something. That's why the question was asked. I can shoot all my guns well. So, if all things are equal, then I can carry my .380 and not feel that I'm giving much up. This would be like finding out that a ford ranger can pull the same load as a F-350.

3 years 51 weeks ago, 3:27 AM

luckybychoice

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I was referring to

Buckeye firearms authors analogy of information he gathered.He explains it pretty well.Thats where the discrepancies come up off both charts.Interesting study though but as TXLUCKY said,this data helps sell bullets.I generally carry a G26 with 10 rnds of Speer Gold dot but if i can't carry a gun due to circumstances i carry a Beretta 950B .25 cal with corbon ? i foregot what its called,ammo( where they actually advertised that it had the same stopping power as a .45).I don't believe the hype but i know ball ammo in .25 probably not to good unless i get a head shot and don't have to penetrate sun screen or mosquito repellant.

Having said that i do know a guy that pulled a .25 against some gang bangers and none of them wanted to test the theory.Thats why i agree with TXs lucky top pick -MINDSET

First rule of gun fight is "have a gun,and be prepared to use it".I am not a fan of mouse guns and i consider 9mm pretty much a mouse gun caliber to,but fast follow up shots,ammo design,help level the field against larger calibers.

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
3 years 51 weeks ago, 8:14 AM

LLE

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LBC; NO!!

Almost all of the big name trainers will tell you that the First Rule is:
DO NOT get yourself in the position to be in a gunfight. Failing that rule [probably because you forgot Jeff Cooper's "Condition Yellow"], then YOUR first rule becomes the Second Rule.

Corollary is; "I'd rather have a gun and not need it, than need it and not have it!" { many people call that the first rule of self-defense].

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
3 years 51 weeks ago, 9:22 AM

luckybychoice

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But LLE

please review,

RULES OF A GUNFIGHT:

1) Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns.

2) Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.

3) Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.

4) If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough or using cover correctly.

5) Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend.

6) If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.

7) In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.

8) If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.

9) Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun. Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. All skill is in vein when an Angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket.

10) Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

11) Always cheat always win. The only unfair fight is the one you loose.

12) Have a plan.

13) Have a back-up plan because the first one won't work.

14) Use cover or concealment as much as possible.

15) Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.

16) Don't drop your guard.

17) Always Tac load and threat scan 360 degrees.

18) Watch their hands. Hands kill. (In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them!)

19) Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.

20) The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.

21) Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

22) Be courteous to everyone. Friendly to no one.

23) Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.
author Gabriel Suarez
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You see your rule is actually 23rd on the list,and no more than an option :)

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
3 years 51 weeks ago, 10:02 AM

Saint J.M. Browning

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My 2¢

TxLG, LBC, and LLE all make excellent points. I would further add that, when only considering caliber/ammunition effectiveness in an civilian self-defense situation, there are many other factors to consider besides simple round placed on target effectiveness.

In the simplest (and most likely) situation of a person-person confrontation, any caliber theoretically could be effective. A perfect marksman with nerves of steel and blood of ice could use a .22 CB and stop the threat. Shot placement is highly important, to re-state what to us all is a commonly chanted mantra.

Larger caliber and/or higher kinetic energy rounds allow for some forgiveness with shots off-mark. Slightly. A .22 to the heart will stop a threat, but is likely to catch bone and not make it through to the chest cavity. But even where it able to, if it is an inch from the heart and misses lungs, it would not cause near-instant fatality where a .357 magnum would have enough energy and kinetic energy to destroy the heart passing by it. This is one factor.

But there are many factors and, unfortunately, many differ by situation. Without knowing specifically what your situation will be when selecting your firearm/ammunition, it's is impossible to pigeonhole a "best firearm/ammo" choice.

A consideration that should be made is level of concern towards collateral damage, liability, and personal accountability. Should one avoid this at all costs or is stopping the threat in one shot the only concern? If an individual is only wishes to defend ones self at all costs and the results of doing so are an after though, then the most powerful round that is manageable is the clear choice. But if the safety of other persons and property is a concern, it becomes more complicated.

A .44 magnum will likely stop a threat on even a poorly placed hit on the target, but it is also likely to continue to travel through with a high level of lethality. And if the round misses, whatever it does eventually hit will be destroyed. Maybe this hypothetical encounter is in an ideal location in which there is nothing of concern behind the target for miles. But the probability is not so ideal.

This brings to question the need for a one shot stop. A 9mm double or triple tap on target would probably be more effective. This could lead to one's choice in sidearm. Is a rapid string of shots achievable with a revolver? Or should a semi-auto be chosen?

But then more factors come into play. What if the threat is wearing heavy clothing or is in a vehicle? A round selected to prevent collateral damage might not be effective enough or could be deflected off target in these situations. I would argue that the person in a vehicle for any situation I could foresee wouldn't necessitate lethal force. But it isn't outside the real of possibility either. The heavy/thick clothing is more likely and more valid consideration, albeit has less effect on the round. Also, this could be better planned for as this likely would be determined by current environment. So, should one have a winter gun and a summer gun? It's not without merit. For concealed carrying consideration as well.

These are just a few considerations and there are many others, but the point I'm trying to demonstrate is that it is nearly impossible to ascertain what the most effective round for civilian self-defense should be. It all should be based on the individual level. But if I were to say what the median would be for the average John Q. Public, I would go with a medium power level round like the .38 or 9mm in warm climates with a step up to .357, .45, or 10mm in cold and practice, practice, practice. Marksmanship, situational awareness, and the ability to remain calm in a threatening situation is key.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 51 weeks ago, 11:47 AM

luckybychoice

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Jeff Cooper Quote:

Remember the first rule of gunfighting... "have a gun."”

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
3 years 51 weeks ago, 4:43 PM

coppertop

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Perhaps you don't like me making it look like a dig against the 1911. Ok, lets change that to my ppk/s and my glock 21. I used the 1911 due the fact that they both normally hold 7 rounds. My point is that providing that the shot is made well, then the added power and capacity of the glock is nothing more than added size and weight. All things equal, shot for shot my .380 will serve me just fine and perhaps avoid collateral damage. I ask the question because I was thinking of getting a compact .45 like the XDs or the XDM compact. I can take the snears and jears of carrying a "mouse gun". If my .380 in that load can match a load in .45, then I can feel better about carrying it. If I do get the compact .45, then it be due to want and not out of need.

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