Forums / Political & Legal / Health care bill

4 years 35 weeks ago, 7:29 PM

OozeRat

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Health care bill

Well...they passed a health care plan written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress that exempts themselves from it, to be signed by a president who smokes, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, all to be overseen by a surgeon general who is ......obese, and financed by a country that's broke. What could possibly go wrong?
Sometimes I wonder if I'm still proud to be an American.

Nothing is as risky as certain failure.
4 years 35 weeks ago, 7:41 PM

CharlesW

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drive to Florida without asking one SOBs
permission and with no check points unless
you get busted for traffic violation.
You're still free bud, enjoy being an
American a few more days anyway.

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
4 years 35 weeks ago, 7:50 PM

OozeRat

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I do enjoy all of my freedoms but our country's leadership had turned into a major embarrassment at least in my opinion.

Nothing is as risky as certain failure.
4 years 35 weeks ago, 7:53 PM

CharlesW

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No arguement there

Downward spiral

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
4 years 35 weeks ago, 7:55 PM

photobear6

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VOTE THE BASTARDS OUT look at there records and if their bad for us VOTE THE BASTARDS OUT.

America is not at war. The U.S. Military is at war. America is at the Mall. If you don't stand behind our troops, PLEASE feel free to stand in front of them!
4 years 35 weeks ago, 8:05 PM

CharlesW

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Look at Chellie Pingree D-Maine
Google her
Pro abortion (partial birth)
anti death penalty
anti gun
anti military defence
much much more but she keeps
getting elected in Maine
Dangerous woman

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
4 years 35 weeks ago, 8:08 PM

CharlesW

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Photobear

I saw her on tv Sat on the House
Rules Committee votes. She looked like
she was on crack and spaced out

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
4 years 35 weeks ago, 8:14 PM

OozeRat

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This has nothin to do with anything but I took my comcealed weapons permit class on sat. and mailed off the paperwork on mon. So now it's a race between the BCI for my permit and the IRS for my tax refund. Who do you think will win? The feds have a 2 week head start.

Nothing is as risky as certain failure.
4 years 35 weeks ago, 8:16 PM

photobear6

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tell everybody in our districts tell your friends, family, strangers, shout it from the roof tops VOTE THE BASTARDS OUT we have the internet and were from all parts of the country on here let everybody know VOTE THE BASTARDS OUT. Hell we voted Scott Brown in if we can do that in Mass theres hope every where, and by the looks of it there might be a couple more that'll be leaving office after this falls elections.

America is not at war. The U.S. Military is at war. America is at the Mall. If you don't stand behind our troops, PLEASE feel free to stand in front of them!
4 years 35 weeks ago, 8:24 PM

CharlesW

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Some of the diehard party members in this
Country are brainwashed in my opinion.
They see what is in it for them and to hell
with you. I try to be open minded about things.
I don't know that part of the med bill is good,
it seems to be a cover up but I do know there
are millions and billions tacked onto it that
should be somewhere else.

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
4 years 35 weeks ago, 11:25 PM

ecaman

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CW

You sound like you're rather astonished that some people are primarily concerned about what's in it for them. It's been this way since there were people, and it's never going to change. The good times occur when these people are in the minority, but that's always been kind of rare.

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. (Mark Twain).
4 years 35 weeks ago, 11:30 PM

CharlesW

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America will never be destroyed from the outside.
If we lose our freedoms, it will be because we
destroyed ourselves.
Abraham Lincoln

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
4 years 35 weeks ago, 11:38 PM

ecaman

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CW

I believe that's true. Vladimir Ilyich Lenin prophesied that we would spend ourselves into oblivion, and that's coming closer & closer to true. Look how much we owe to China now, and it's growing.

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. (Mark Twain).
4 years 35 weeks ago, 11:40 PM

CharlesW

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Don't make war with the US. Buy it.

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
4 years 35 weeks ago, 11:59 PM

greg az

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Here's a gathering of honestly good people who arent doing it for a dollar agenda.. Their doing it because they are old enough (the majority) to remember what this country was, and care enough to do something about it.. I think the younger members of the group are bright enough to see that were heading straight toward the abyss..

All we heard for as long as i can remember was the deficit.. It's now so bad that i don't think any of us can really comprehend how deep in debt we are.. I know this much, you can not have an unmatched deficit.. the whole idea of "moniterizing" IE just printing money is a guaranteed failure..always has been and always will be.. It's never worked for any nation, and that's exactly what were doing right now..

I'm not that upset with Obarry.. We knew he was rated as the most liberal senator, and had zero experience..So America showed its great and open heart and elected him.. The problem is that Congress has elected to show all of America just how little respect they have for us.. With poll after poll showing less than 25%, and at the end only 20% in favor of this insane bill it was passed anyway.. A big fat FU from congress to the American people.. To list all that's wrong with the bill and why its bound to fail is beyond the obvious..

My hope is that this will unite Americans much like 9/11 did.. This is pretty simple, they work for us.. and with any luck at all they will stop working for us in November.. What a wonderful example to all.. Hope you all have your don't tread on me signs ready...

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
4 years 35 weeks ago, 12:06 AM

CharlesW

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That wouldn't be a bad trip
About 300 I think without looking

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
4 years 35 weeks ago, 12:38 AM

CharlesW

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Man that was a hot dry trip

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
4 years 35 weeks ago, 12:51 AM

greg az

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its Anastasie right..or do i have it mixed up..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
4 years 35 weeks ago, 12:55 AM

CharlesW

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greg thats right

it was very interesting

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
4 years 35 weeks ago, 1:02 AM

greg az

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Talk about different.. Brother they have it rough when you get way back off the road.. Tell you this much.. It's the best ad ive ever seen for ford trucks.. 4 outa 5 trucks up on the rez are Ford. There must be something to that.. no dealers.. Funny how we think of the Indians as being such great caretakers.. Remember the old chief with the tear .. Yeah right.. once you get up there the people are ok.. but every hogan has about 5 or 6 overturned vehicles in the yard. Their not into the whole "ecology" thing... ha ha..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
4 years 35 weeks ago, 1:18 AM

CharlesW

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becomes a chicken house

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
4 years 35 weeks ago, 10:52 AM

runawaygun762

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Wait-yes there are. Immigration, DUI, dyed fuel checks (Not too much of that anymore, but it'll be back), commercial vehicle compliance checks, there are checkpoints. Not as bad as foreign countries. Yet.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
4 years 35 weeks ago, 11:18 AM

calum

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As someone who comes from a country with a full national health service I can say that from personal experience ours works well, for instance my Granma went in for a hip replacement this week and it went without a hitch, thank God.

But I think when our NHS was created it might have been the right choice/solution for that problem/time period.

When I look at the US I think that most people acknowledge there is a problem which needs to be fixed, its wrong to deny someone something as fundamental as basic healthcare and affordable medicines.

The problem as seen from an outsiders point of view is that pharmaceutical companies and insurance companies are essentially free to fix prices in the US and look to cancel insurance policies for things as simple as getting a tooth removed.

From my perspective I think that instead of introducing new taxes which no one wants, the US should have introduced new laws and monitoring on the Pharm/insurance industry to make sure that prices were brought to a more reasonable level and that price fixing, if proven, would be severely punished.

If you look to the costs of medical insurance and prescription drugs in almost any country around the world you will find the prices are much much cheaper. It would also be fair to say that there are countries which provide the same if not better health care than the US (although this is dependant on a hospital to hospital basis).

Personally I like the Swiss way of doing things on this issue, you can read about it here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Switzerland

If you do a currency conversion on the rates on insurance then you will find that they can afford basic insurance for about $329 per month for an adult. This seems reasonable considering the average wage in Switzerland is $2942 per month.

"I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it." Clint Eastwood
4 years 35 weeks ago, 11:55 AM

HampsterW

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calum,

You are correct in your observation. I personaly experienced your NHS (national health service) as a teenager going to school in Aberfeldy and it does indeed work.

I think most would also agree with the fact that the big Pharma, medical and insurance industries have most of our politicians deep within their pocket, therefore we will never see the desperately needed change that is so long overdue.

What we will see is more Bullshit bills like this healthcare fiasco that are so loaded with pork and fluff that it is beyond belief.

The fundimental problem is that for every crooked politician there is another crooked politician right behind him to take his place. Until money is taken out of the equation as pertains to our political structure, there will never be any real change.
(edit)
Change that you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun, history has shown this to be true.
P.S. welcome to Gunslot

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
4 years 35 weeks ago, 12:28 PM

Schuyler

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There is nothing in our Constitution that gives the government the power to force individuals to buy stuff, whether it is a DVD player or health insurance. Now they are going to attempt to FORCE all citizens to obtain 'qualified' health insurance. This is intrusive. 60% of citizens did not want this bill, yet they passed it anyway. The idea of the founding of this country was at its most basic to get rid of government and replace it with personal responsibility. Unfortunately we have way too many citizens who mistake equality of opportunity with equality of achievement. Accordingly, we as a nation become more dependent on our government, which is a recipe for disaster.

Drug manufacturers on the whole have a pretty good profit margin, but it is less than beverages, software, and a whole lot of other industries. It comes nowhere near Apple Computers or Microsoft, for example. It also costs them a billion dollars to develop a drug that may not be profitable, courtesy of our FDA imposing incredible requirements on them. They are then forced to sell the drugs cheaply to foreign countries.

Insurance companies in health care have a profit margin of 3.3%, 86th in a list of industries, less than discount shopping stores. So pretending that insurance companies are evil is ridiculous; they are barely able to stay afloat.

There's a lot wrong in health care in the US. Tort reform is badly needed, but with lawyers in charge, that will be difficult to make happen. The real point here is not about health care--it's about a government growing out of control, citizens growing dependent on government for basic personal needs, and a corresponding lack of individual freedom.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
4 years 35 weeks ago, 12:39 PM

calum

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Data?

Schuyler, where did you get the 3.3% figure?

http://www.citizen.org/documents/Pharma_Report.pdf

This report states (with data from Fortune 500) :

"

-A profit of 17 cents for every dollar of revenue, compared with a Fortune 500 median of
3.1 cents per dollar of revenue.

- A return on assets of 14.1 percent, compared with a Fortune 500 median of 2.3 percent.

- Along with earning the highest rankings in these two categories, the drug industry ranked
second among all business sectors in return on shareholder equity, with a rate more than
two-and-a-half times the Fortune 500 median (27.6 percent compared with 10.2 percent).

"

"I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it." Clint Eastwood
4 years 35 weeks ago, 12:47 PM

Schuyler

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I said the HEALTH INSURANCE industry has a profit margin of 3.3%. I never stated that the pharmaceutical industry had a low profit margin, just that it is lower than software and several other industries. Regardless, I don't care whether they have a high profit margin or not. That begs the question of the government's intrusion into my personal life.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
4 years 35 weeks ago, 12:50 PM

calum

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True

That's true, the government of America was set-up as a republic and that's not the same as what Obama and crew are up to just now.

"I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it." Clint Eastwood
4 years 35 weeks ago, 12:51 PM

HampsterW

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I know what

a Google search will turn up on profits for Ins. companies....yeah and the banks aren't making any money either....BULLSHIT!!!

From my personal perspective, I have a family plan which costs $500/ mo. with a $2000 deductible (which is never met), how could they not turn a profit????

All I will say about lawyers is that they will do things that rats won't do and it is easier to become attached to a rat!!!

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
4 years 35 weeks ago, 1:31 PM

greg az

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All the obvious "right" implications here.. I get so disgusted watching the administration trying these sophomoric tricks designed to pit the public against any large industry.. Obarrys attempt to portray big business as the "bad guy" is disgusting, patronizing, and shameful when you look at how much money he (as well as most elected officials) receive from K street lobiest..

Its a shame that most Americans can't see the obvious fact.. The world of business is just a big "vegas".. The house wins.. The house has to win.. and guess what.. We NEED the house to win.. If they don't then all the rhetoric in the world wont save the nation. The country runs on big business.. It's the source of jobs, tax revenue, and all that really shines in America..

Clean green little windmills are just great, but you can wrap up the whole "green" thing and tie a bow around it and its MAYBE 2% of our GDP..

Health care.. Hell yes we all want health care.. It sickens me to think we have Americans who cant afford it, or have ins canceled... FIX THAT.. But open the borders and stop regulating which ins companies can compete in which state, and let us get drugs from Canada or where ever thier less (like canadian drugs arent safe sheesh)

When the administration did NOT do those two things they showed the degree of patronage given to those K street boys i was talking about..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
4 years 35 weeks ago, 1:44 PM

HampsterW

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Yep greg

it is a whored up mess, no question about it. I agree that big business makes the world go round, without it there is nothing for any of us. I think as a nation, we could do without the smoke and mirrors that the government/ MSM feeds us.

As a side note, wasn't it big business that sent most of our MFG....etc. jobs offshore, just a thought.

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
4 years 35 weeks ago, 1:56 PM

greg az

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Obviously not ALL of thier acts are in good conscience.. However it was NAFTA that opened that door, and they looked at the bottom line as opposed to the jobs that would be lost.. That sort of thing is shameful, but an unfortunate part of capitalism.. I sure wouldn't want to defend a lot of the actions of big business, but i also know that without them.. With out the "house winning"..we all lose..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
4 years 35 weeks ago, 2:03 PM

HampsterW

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agreed bro!

On a lighter note, hows biz in AZ?
I have been on vacation this week with many "spring cleaning drills" around the residence (the range is not one of them, sadly)....aaaahhh! the simple pleasures of life that are denied us by work....LOL

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------

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