Forums / Gun Discussion / Help needed with an AR

3 years 40 weeks ago, 1:40 PM

ecaman

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Help needed with an AR

I have a really good friend in Reading, PA who's decided that he wants an AR. He's been involved with combat handguns and WWII rifles, but now he wants an AR. He knows even less about them than I do (and I know next to nothing), but he asked me for help deciding which one to buy. Well, I don't know! I need help!
If he's going to buy a complete AR, which one do you recommend?
If he's going to build one, what upper should he use? Which lower? Which stock? Which handguard? Which accessories? Which sights?
The guy is a chemical salesman, working for a huge distributor. He does really well, and brings in some good coin, but he doesn't want to be hosed. Unfortunately, he doesn't know enough about AR's to help him avoid being hosed without some help.
I know that there are many guys on the site who really know a lot about AR's, both complete new ones, and about building them. I'm counting on you guys to give me some informed help so I can pass it on to him.

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. (Mark Twain).
3 years 40 weeks ago, 3:32 PM

HampsterW

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AR's

My Rock river arms rifle is a mean SOB, see it here: http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&categ... it has never let me down so I would recommend it, I don't know about Bushmaster and the other guys, I hope this helps!

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
3 years 40 weeks ago, 8:12 PM

luckybychoice

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excuse me

while i go make some popcorn,we're gonna be awhile answering this one.

Here's my short answer : Colt 6920 , carry on.......

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
3 years 40 weeks ago, 4:40 PM

hillbilly77

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Some guys like Ford, some chevy, and some Dodge. As long as your friend stays with the more common makers he will be just fine. I have a DPMS and it has never failed me, but I have also shot Bushmasters that shot fine to. DPMS, Rock River, Bushmaster, and heck Ruger's new AR is a kickass peice of equipment(although still a little steep in price.)

“If ever time should come,when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of it's experienced Patriots to prevent it's ruin."Samuel Adams
3 years 40 weeks ago, 5:34 PM

dockit

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Stick with the military equivalent, there is a reason, buy the Colt 6920 or 6940. Check the chart for the reasons.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=tr...

I intend to live forever, or die trying. It Could Be that the Purpose of Your Life is Only to Serve as a Warning to Others. Join the Army, meet interesting people, kill them. All those who believe in psychokinesis raise my hand.
3 years 40 weeks ago, 8:11 PM

luckybychoice

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yeah,the chart,

i posted this several months ago,very helpful in comparing ARs,good for discussion purposes.Depends on how much detail you want to get into,your gonna find guys really like the one they own or have shot,the chart cuts thru the emotion part and breaks down each point of an AR,comparing them apples to apples.

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
3 years 40 weeks ago, 8:47 PM

runawaygun762

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I've seen the charts of what are mil-spec and what aren't, but a weapon doesn't have to meet mil-specs to be a good one. I've had two Bushmasters, both of them worked great. I've also had great experiences with all of my military-issued rifles, but some have had bad experiences. I have found that if you tke care of them, they'll be fine. Of course, I recommend sticking with the bigger names that have built a reputation like Bushmaster, Colt, DPMS, and Rock River. There are also smaller companies that make the "designer" guns like LMT, POF, LRWC, and Wilson if you want to spend a bundle.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
3 years 40 weeks ago, 8:49 PM

HKBauer

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Runs!!

Where you been buddy?

3 years 40 weeks ago, 8:50 PM

runawaygun762

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Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Been real busy getting settled in and learning a new job.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
3 years 40 weeks ago, 8:53 PM

HKBauer

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Hows everything going for ya gettin settled?

3 years 40 weeks ago, 9:00 PM

runawaygun762

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It's different.

It'll be good to get home, but I'm just getting started in the tour, so I'm not even bothering to count down the days yet.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
3 years 40 weeks ago, 12:15 AM

greg az

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We thought the hogs had eaten you buddy.. Whats the scoop is there an issue with getting on down there are what.. So are you on a first name basis with KSM yet... Up to speed on that whole water boarding thing yet.. Talk to us tramp.. Yeah we missed ya..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
3 years 40 weeks ago, 12:20 AM

runawaygun762

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It's sad, but I had faster internet in Iraq than I do here, a couple hundred miles south of Miami. Man, if I could tell you guys about some of the winners we have here. Unfortunately, people have lost security clearances and even ranks and careers by saying the wrong things to the wrong people, so suffice it to say we've got some hard chargers here.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
3 years 40 weeks ago, 12:23 AM

CharlesW

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and check your bags before you come home
for a stoaway

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
3 years 40 weeks ago, 12:30 AM

runawaygun762

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It's all Jamaicans and Filipinos here. And I definitely have NO desire for either of those groups.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
3 years 40 weeks ago, 11:09 AM

TLtactical

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AR15 choices

www.ar15web.com

$599.95 for a CMMG M4 upper on a Plum crazy lower! at www.ColemanTyler.com
$709.95 for a Gas Piston M4 Upper and a Plum lower! www.ColemanTyler.com
$749.95 for a DPMS Oracle AR15 at www.ar15web.com
$1789.95 for a POF 16 Recon gas Piston Rifle at www.ar15web.com

Plum Crazy Lowers are made here in Arizona and have a lifetime warranty!

Bushmaster, CMMG, DPMS, Rock River Arms, POF, Adams Arms, Sun Devil and most others make good products and the differences between most mil spec weapons is not that much. When you step up into a nice billet rifle or gas piston there are more items to be mindful of though.

The only AR platforms I would recommend staying away from are Ruger gas piston rifles... They are extremely over-priced and under quality. The pin together design makes for complicated cleaning if you ever want to clean your barrel under the quad rail... and it just looks and feels cheap when compared to others tht are not $1400....

Best Regards TL “It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.” ---Aristotle Greek critic, philosopher, physicist, & zoologist (384 BC - 322 BC)
3 years 40 weeks ago, 11:47 AM

Reaper308

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AR's

First he must come to the realization that he’s just opened the black hole pandora’s box of never-ending desires to upgrade seemingly meaningless accessories and spend countless hours researching and trial and error type testing to add the latest and greatest cool shit to his rifle. It will most likely put a strain on his marriage.

After he’s admitted that he’s joined forces with the dark side, he should decide if he wants to go with a Piston rifle, or stay with Stoner's Direct Impingement system. DI rifles have been around since the M16A1. They function great as long as they stay clean and are properly lubed. Piston systems seem to be the newer school of thought. They run cleaner and cooler, but can suffer from carrier tilt problems. There is a lot of debate which one is better, so do some research and decide for yourself. In most situations, the DI gun will be fine and be easier on the wallet.

Next, decide on caliber. The days of strictly 5.56/.223 AR’s are over. Now days you can find them in .22LR, 9x19, 5.45, .243, 6.5, 6.8, 7.62x39, 7.62x51, .50 Beowulf and more. For most applications the 5.56 is fine and plenty of ammo is readily available, but if he’s looking for a precision rifle or a deer rifle, there are better caliber choices that allow him to stay on the AR platform.

If he wants to build one, he can either buy a complete lower group and a complete upper group of his choice and slap them together... or he can do it from scratch and buy all the parts he wants. This is where the obsession begins. I'm in the process of buying a bunch of misc parts for a build myself. After a lot of research, and talking to a lot of really knowledgeable guys, I decided to go with the following: chrome lined BCM 14.5" mid length gas system bbl (with perm attached hider to make it 16.1") (Noveske makes great bbls too, but more $$), either a BCM or VLTOR upper, Daniel Defense hand guard but I have a LaRue on another rifle and its awesome, either a SOPMOD or magpul CTR stock, either a LMT or Noveske lower. BCM bolt carrier group and BCM gunfighter charging handle. In my opinion, PMAGS have become the industry standard for quality magazines (I like them better than $50 HK mags). I'm still working on the list and looking into triggers. BCM, Troy, Daniel Defense, LaRue, VLTOR, and Magpul have made a reputation for themselves as being great battle ready products. The accessories that you can add are limitless. You can get a good idea of products and prices here...
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/

When choosing a BBL, he'll want to decide on length, twist, and material. Stainless barrels might shoot tighter groups, but chrome lined last longer. What is he looking to do with the rifle? I chose to go with a 1:7 twist chrome lined forged bbl so I could shoot heavier bullets. I'm not looking for a competition rifle (hence the 14.5" chrome lined). Look for HPT (High Pressure Test) and MPI (Magnetic particle inspected) barrels… they’ll usually be stamped.

I would make sure to get a chamber rated for 5.56 NATO. You’ll be able to shoot .223 out of it with no problems, but I wouldn’t recommend shooting 5.56 out of a .223 rem bbl. .223 Wydle will be able to shoot either (these are mainly for match rifles).

When choosing a lower, there are 4 manufacturers who make about 90%-95% of the lowers out there (LMT, CMT, LAR, MMS). Then different companies brand them and sell them. For Example, LMT makes lowers for Barrett, some of Bushmaster's and KAC (Knights Armament) along with about 20 others. It really comes down to what logo you want on it. I know that Spikes puts out a good lower (made by LAR I think) for a good price and you can customize it (LAR also makes some of bushmaster's, Noveske, CMMG, DPMS etc.). Then there are billet lowers like POF and Sun Devil which are really solid, but cost more.

I would also recommend going with a flat top so he can throw on some optics of his choice and good quality BUIS (back up iron sights). Remember red dot windows like eotech's and aimpoints and anything 1x-1.5x or 2x are good for CQB out to a couple hundred yds. 2-4x (something similar to a ACOG) about 200-400 yds. Anything further, I recommend getting a real piece of glass. There are a lot of good companies that make quality mounts. LaRue and GG&G are just a couple that come to mind.

If he just wants to buy one, most name brands will be fine for paper punching and defending against hungry zombie hoards. Bushmaster, Colt, Daniel Defense, Noveske are the DI guns that I would look at depending on budget, but there are plenty of others. Catfish just got a Noveske. They're solid. For Piston guns, LWRC, POF, and LMT.

I'm sure I'll catch some shit on this one. I probably left out someone’s favorite brand. This is my opinion I’ve got from research, a lot of rounds down range, and talking with guys who run carbine courses and see all types of rifles all day every day. Sorry for the lengthy post but I like hearing myself talk, I mean type about rifles. Viva la black rifle!

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
3 years 40 weeks ago, 12:04 PM

HampsterW

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you left out my favorite brand RRA..........LOL!!!

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
3 years 40 weeks ago, 12:10 PM

Reaper308

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you guys come crawling out of the woodwork everytime. I just hope I get an Olympic jockey to step up

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
3 years 40 weeks ago, 12:20 PM

HampsterW

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Hi-point again, I know it's unrelated but just don't...lol

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
3 years 40 weeks ago, 12:31 PM

Reaper308

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but...please?

thats what I live for. Its a "bait and switch". I name off a few good brands that I like, then I sit back and wait for people to start bringing up garbage brands so I can keep myself entertained.

I’m not saying RRA is garbage. I just like other brands personally. I’m talking about other brands being garbage… You know who you are! Yea, I talking to you! Sit down when you pee boy!

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
3 years 40 weeks ago, 12:42 PM

HampsterW

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the first AR that I bought was a Century arms (the one that rides around in my car), I suppose you could call it garbage because the quality is nowhere near my RRA Government but it shoots good, it's light and it fits well in the back seat and it was a hell of a lot cheaper.

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
3 years 40 weeks ago, 12:54 PM

bigjake

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ummmmm

hi-point

3 years 40 weeks ago, 1:14 PM

HampsterW

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Ha ha ha, I don't

know if you caught the conversation but we had a die hard Hi-point jockey hank1975? I think, anyway he was of the opinion that his $180 Hi-point was 'all that and a bag of chips' compared to the lowly Glock, Walther etc. that are in the $600 range, okay bud good luck with that!

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
3 years 40 weeks ago, 1:21 PM

bigjake

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had to do it hamp

sorry

3 years 40 weeks ago, 1:29 PM

HampsterW

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be back to spew more of that Hi point superiority garbage, it's kind of entertaining watching a grown man act like a five year old when others don't agree with him...lol

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
3 years 40 weeks ago, 10:55 AM

dockit

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Reaper you forgot about the most important part of the gun. He should also look for the full auto M16 type bolt and bolt carrier.

I intend to live forever, or die trying. It Could Be that the Purpose of Your Life is Only to Serve as a Warning to Others. Join the Army, meet interesting people, kill them. All those who believe in psychokinesis raise my hand.
3 years 40 weeks ago, 11:45 AM

Reaper308

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dockit

Correct. It is essential to get a good quality M16 BCG. I mentioned I am currently getting a BCM BCG. I also like Daniel Defense's. There are plenty of good ones out there. I just make sure they're HPT/MPI tested and have a chrome lined carrier and gas key.

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
3 years 40 weeks ago, 7:43 PM

ohioshooter

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most

most ar parts are made by two companys acording to my friend who sells them if ya want more info let me know i ll give you his shop phone number and his name he knows his shit and he s very honset

"I carry a gun cause a cop is too heavy."
3 years 40 weeks ago, 11:25 AM

ecaman

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I sincerely appreciate all of your excellent answers!

I had intended to answer this days ago, but I've been sick. The diabetes gives me hell from time to time, and just did. Not completely over the siege yet. The ambulance came once. Entertained the neighbors! For awhile I didn't even know who there were or what they were doing. I hate it for my wife. She becomes very upset and worried. For some reason she really cares about me. For myself, at times, I just don't give a shit. If it happens, it happens. I'll face whatever comes.

Rather than trying to reproduce everyone's answers quite imperfectly, I'm going to try to prevail on my friend, Jim, to join Gunslot, then he can read all of this and glean the answers for himself. He's a wonderful guy, and will be a tremendous addition to the site. I know that everyone will welcome him.

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. (Mark Twain).

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