Forums / Political & Legal / how it done in Texas?

5 years 49 weeks ago, 9:31 PM

uglymech6153

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how it done in Texas?

Is this how it's done in the lone star state?

TX: While Family Was Off-Roading a 7-Year-Old Boy Was Shot and Killed By an Armed Couple Who Claimed Family Was Trespassing On Property
There are some gun owners who have a blood lust, ready and willing to shoot and kill other people, including children, for seemingly mindless reasons and just to prove that they can decide who lives and dies.

According to the Associated Press on May 9th:

HOUSTON - A 7-year-old boy who was allegedly shot in the head by a couple who thought he and three other people were trespassing on their property died Saturday, authorities said.

Donald Coffey Jr. died Saturday morning at a Houston hospital, less than two days after the boy was struck in the head by shotgun pellets, Sheriff's Cpl. Hugh Bishop said.

Sheila Muhs and her husband, Gayle Muhs, both 45, were charged with second-degree felony counts of aggravated assault in the shootings Thursday. They were being held at Liberty County Jail with bail set at $25,000 each and had not yet retained an attorney, Bishop said.

Bishop said the district attorney could upgrade the charges to murder on Monday, but investigators were "still trying to get the circumstances behind the incident."

The boy, his 5-year-old sister, their father and a family friend were off-roading near a residential area about 40 miles northeast of Houston when they were shot after stopping so the children could go to the bathroom.

Authorities said the couple fired after they mistakenly thought the group was trespassing on their property.

Bishop said the area includes a dirt road, trees and overgrown brush and that it wasn't uncommon for people to go off-roading there.

The Houston Chronicle reported that a sign in front of the suspects' home reads: "Trespassers will be shot. Survivers will be reshot!! Smile I will."

Liberty County Chief Deputy Ken DeFoor said Sheila Muhs fired a 12-gauge shotgun once, then handed it to her husband, who also fired once.

DeFoor said Sheila Muhs then called 911 and told the dispatcher: "They're out here tearing up the levee, so I shot them."

DeFoor said the levee belonged to the subdivision and was not private property.

Bishop said there was no indication the unarmed victims did anything threatening toward the Muhs.

Donald Coffey Sr. suffered a pellet wound in his right shoulder and his daughter, Destiny, suffered a wound to the elbow. The family friend, 30-year-old Patrick Cammack, was in serious condition Saturday with a head wound, Memorial Hermann-Texas Medical Center spokeswoman Alex Rodriguez said.

More: Texas, Armed Citizens, Shootings, kids & guns

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5 years 49 weeks ago, 4:46 AM

ivantank

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saw a picture of these two stellar human beings......GUILTY

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5 years 49 weeks ago, 4:53 AM

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Pretty Ugly

Kinda makes me sick. I'm sure the incident will make all the airwaves.

(You have to look behind all of that outer space stuff)
5 years 49 weeks ago, 9:48 AM

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Wow

Nothing suprises me with all the brainless morons that live in Texas but this is just sad.

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5 years 49 weeks ago, 9:20 PM

runawaygun762

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I'm pretty sure Texas

law doesn't say you can shoot trespassers without a reasonable fear of imminent bodily harm. Even if this was private property, they were wrong.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 49 weeks ago, 9:41 PM

TacDoc

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No some judges like to hear that you were in fear of your life but Texas Penal code says force is authorized just for trespassing. Looks like deadly force requires notion of harm but the code is strew between force and deadly force. They interchange the words a lot.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/DocViewer.aspx?K2DocKey=odbc%3a%2f...

Look for subchapter D

Doc
5 years 49 weeks ago, 10:16 PM

runawaygun762

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Not for trespassing

Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

The way I read it, deadly force can only be used to prevent arson, burglary, robbery, theft at night (odd) or criminal mischief and lesser means cannot be reasonably used. It doesn't have a provision for deadly force to prevent trespassing unless other criminal acts are or may occur.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 49 weeks ago, 10:31 PM

TacDoc

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The section before it reads about 'force' being used for trespassing. (Well placed round in the leg?) But still why else would some weirdo you didn't know be in your house except to fuck you up or steal shit.

Doc
5 years 49 weeks ago, 10:32 PM

TacDoc

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But actually I just realized what we were posting on... Yeah these dumb fucks were in the wrong cause those people weren't even on their land. Did you know the kid died?

Doc
5 years 49 weeks ago, 10:36 PM

TacDoc

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But the LEO's around here have told me that you can give a verbal warning to someone and if they don't leave immediately you are authorized to shoot.

Doc
5 years 49 weeks ago, 8:12 AM

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Gunnin88...

I'm a native texan, and don't really appriciate you classifying everyone in the state as " Brainless morons". I've traveled extensivly, and feel that texans by and large are generally more polite and courtious then most. Now having said that, and being a multi-gun owning texan with "no trespassing marked property, I find their behavior inexcusable. Even if the people were on their property, force was not the answer. 99% of the time all I have ever had to do was tell the people to stay off, and problem solved, The fact that I carry open on my property might affect this. If it continues to be a problem, call the sheriff, To easy. GUILTY, toss their asses in prison.

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5 years 49 weeks ago, 9:25 AM

Gunnin88

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Ronin

I understand your displeasure with my statement, and knew full good and well it would rub some people the wrong way. I stand behind it however. I have been to Texas on many occasions and work with people from Texas on a regular basis. It's a stereotype for sure, but a well educated one.

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5 years 49 weeks ago, 12:38 PM

TacDoc

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What Texans are you working with cause there are all kinds, I'm from the North lets have an educated discussion on the species Texan

Doc
5 years 48 weeks ago, 3:56 PM

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morons?

i was in training with a real winner from seatle who's favorite pastime was head-butting wooden-posted stop signs out of the ground. while down here, he tried it on our stop signs which have metal posts and are in concrete...of course i shouldn't have to tell you that he knocked himself the f*** out. 'brainless morons' indeed

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5 years 49 weeks ago, 9:39 AM

Gunnin88

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Texas house

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG6X-xtVask&eurl=http://www.dumpfly.com/T...

Lol you gotta love em.

texas 911
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9stLf3ZH8o

I think the worst part is or what shapes my stereotype, is the fact so many Texans I have met think their state is the best in the union, and that they are some how better than the rest. .

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5 years 49 weeks ago, 12:47 PM

TacDoc

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Okay Guinn it's just not Texas that does voting like that, there's videos of US Congress doing it too. And as working in Emergency Services I can tell you there are people like the 911 guy all over the country.

The reason they think their state is better is cause in reality it is. Sometimes the scenery isn't great, but Texas is one of the states that would be able to sustain itself if it split. We don't draw power from other states, we produce fresh water for about 1/4 of the country, we produce more oil, Alaska would produce more but they aren't allowed to, and we DEFINITELY have the prettiest girls down here.

Doc
5 years 49 weeks ago, 9:47 AM

ivantank

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WOW...BUT

i still gonna stay a cowboy fan

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5 years 49 weeks ago, 1:21 PM

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TacDoc

As a native texan ( I grew up by Amarillo), all I can say is....AMEN BROTHER!

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5 years 49 weeks ago, 3:38 PM

TacDoc

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Yeah I'm not native but I got here as soon as I could right? But can I ask I question where'd the Ronin come from?

Doc
5 years 49 weeks ago, 10:34 PM

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Force and Deadly Force

are different completely. In the eyes of the law, there is no such thing as warning shots or shooting to wound. If you shoot someone in the leg, the law sees it as you using deadly force. You just can't shoot. Arizona is the same as Texas in that you can physically stop someone fromtaking your porch swing, but you can't go to deadly force unless the offender escalates or you meet the other criteria of reasonable fear of iminent death or serious bodily harm. Force is physical intervention, deadly force is physical intervention with a deadly weapon. That was a very general differentiation (is that a word, 5in1killa?), but it's basically accurate.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 49 weeks ago, 10:41 PM

TacDoc

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Whatever runaway I just live hear and talk to the LEO's I don't know anything...

Doc
5 years 49 weeks ago, 12:59 AM

runawaygun762

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TacDoc

You living there and talking to LEOs means nothing. If LEOs we completely proficient at their job in interpreting the law, no innocent person would ever be arrested, would they. I copied and pasted the applicable section for all to see, and I am telling you there is a difference between force and deadly force. If you choose to take the word of civil authorities, go ahead. I really couldn't care less. The litmus test applied in any criminal case is what a reasonable person would do in the same situation, given the same information as the accused had at the time. A reasonable person would not open fire on an intruder in their yard after dark unless there is something else going on. Get pissed all you want, it doesn't affect me in the slightest. I'll provide information as I can, and you do with it what you will.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 49 weeks ago, 6:53 AM

TacDoc

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well since they are the ones that would be arresting me I'm going to take their word over yours.

Doc
5 years 49 weeks ago, 3:28 PM

runawaygun762

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Their word over mine?

Okay, I don't give a shit. But "my word" is that you have to use more discretion when using deadly force than they are saying, so what are they going to do? Arrest you for not shooting a trespasser? They tell you you have to give a verbal warning then shoot, I'm telling you you can't shoot a trespasser on your land for just for trespassing , no matter how loud you shout or warn. Which bit of advice is more likely to hold up in criminal court. You are boring me now.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 49 weeks ago, 6:45 PM

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Texan and Proud

There are people like this in every state! White Trash Idiots are found everywhere! I'am Praying for the family involved and hoping these sons of bitches fry for what they did!

"Two flags fly above my land that really sum up how I feel. One is the colors that fly high and proud the red the white the blue.The other ones got a rattlesnake with a simple statement made, Don’t Tread On Me is what it says"
5 years 48 weeks ago, 9:52 AM

Gunnin88

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TacDoc

You said:

"The reason they think their state is better is cause in reality it is. Sometimes the scenery isn't great, but Texas is one of the states that would be able to sustain itself if it split. We don't draw power from other states, we produce fresh water for about 1/4 of the country, we produce more oil, Alaska would produce more but they aren't allowed to, and we DEFINITELY have the prettiest girls down here.

1st off your state does not produce 1/4 of the country's drinking water, not sure why you would even think that.
I have been to Texas many times and you DO NOT BY ANY MEANS HAVE THE PRETTIEST GIRLS! although there are a fair number, if your into trailer trash with big hair, thick souther draws.
You proved my point to a tee and proved you are just another of the people that make all Texans look like arrogant bastards.
You took offense you said in your first post, well thats great! offense was intended..lol

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5 years 48 weeks ago, 12:14 PM

TacDoc

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Ha ha I'm not a Texan

Ha ha I'm not a Texan dumbass, I'm from Pennsylvania I moved here 2 years ago for school. Yeah what parts of Texas were you in, you need to know where to go to find the pretty girls just like any state. I'm sorry I meant we produce power, maybe not for a 1/4 of the country but I know the Houston power plants and water facilities would be able to supply Texas. Justifying my point that we would be able to split if we wanted to. Where are you getting your statistics by the way? I know the people that run those plants. I've seen most of the country and Texas has some great looking women or at least then end up here. Every place has their fat chicks, trailer trash, and junkies, but in Texas the numbers are on the better side. Like I said you need to be in the right place. For instance college towns the best college girls in Texas are in Lubbock at Texas Tech. At A&M is just to country bumkin, and UT has been upping the Hispanic population at their school. As a young guy who's been around a bunch and moved 1500 miles, I'm gonna say you need to live in a place to understand things not just what you picked up on your hunting trip.

Doc
5 years 48 weeks ago, 12:28 PM

TacDoc

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You know guinn I'm curious you're profile says you're a body shop manager? So what are you doing working with Texans when you live in Washington? I'm just curious cause I love to negate stereotypes of all kinds. Yes I'm a republican, yes I like guns, no I didn't vote for Obama just to clear up the liberal bullshit from you. I'm just a person with an open mind to other people.

Doc
5 years 48 weeks ago, 12:35 PM

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This isn't getting anyone anywhere. Pretty girls and stereotypes are everywhere. And bremelos aren't just in Bremerton.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
5 years 48 weeks ago, 12:39 PM

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Gunnin and Tac-Doc

Short arm inspection 1600 hours conducted by Rabbi ebear!

5 years 48 weeks ago, 4:21 PM

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You have any idea what a hassle it is to unwrap this "short arm" of mine from around my waist? I have to go into the bathroom five minutes before I actually pee and whenever I get a boner, I pass out due to blood loss from my head and constriction around my abdomen. It's difficult sometimes. And even the local cows have learned to avoid me. Thank God for ebear's deep colon and blown O-ring.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 48 weeks ago, 6:21 PM

Gunnin88

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TacDoc

I used to run a wrecking yard and Texas has some of the biggest in the country. We would visit there often for training and such tripple A small car world I belive was the name of it. We travled all over Texas on about 6 diffrent trips.
Texas does not stand a chance of leaving the US at this point. If they did the flood of people trying to move there would desimate the state in a matter of weeks. Food, Water , property ect would be in short suplly in no time.

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5 years 48 weeks ago, 7:35 PM

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except for the simple fact that they could just close their borders? But i really doubt there are people out there like us that would do that we are to far and few between.

Doc
5 years 48 weeks ago, 8:20 AM

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Okay, they can't stop illegals from coming through the southern border, but you think they can close all borders? Texas will never secede and would be stopped by the federal government if they tried. Texas is not a country unto itself, and Texans do not have supernatural abilities to rebel. Obama is trying to take too much power, on this most of us agree. but the idea of a state trying to secede is asinine and if the federal gubmint didn't take it back, Mexico would. Texas may be a big state, but it would make a small, weak country.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 48 weeks ago, 8:59 AM

ivantank

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the only export they have is potatos and bullshit..!!

I have reasons for the things I do, just don't expect them to be reasonable
5 years 48 weeks ago, 9:11 AM

runawaygun762

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Texas has one of, if not the, strongest economies of any state in the nation. However, like all other states, Texas would not be able to compete as a nation.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 48 weeks ago, 10:40 AM

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Second largest economy in the US, we were just talking the logistics of it, no I don't believe it'll ever happen but still. and Texas isn't involved with border patrol at all that is all Federal and you know that Runaway, A border fortification would create jobs to boost our economy ha ha.

Doc
5 years 48 weeks ago, 10:43 AM

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without CBP? The logistics of a secession are simple; impossible.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 48 weeks ago, 10:49 AM

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then so be it. Let Texans pay for it and withold the cost from what is transferred to the fed. Use their Texas National Guard to defend their borders. Start a militia, use the Texas Rangers, enact State Laws regarding illegals. Sounds easy, right? But the rub is Washington controls the purse strings, so they have to get the funds from DC. I think we need more States Rights and less Federal Intrusion. Let's keep all taxes collected in a state and send the Feds any that is leftover. States will be taxed for their % of the US Military.

5 years 48 weeks ago, 11:00 AM

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Yea one thing most of you don't know there is very little tax in Texas, mainly property and sales. There is so much more Texas could tax so there is a place to get the money. And I bet you Texans would pay new tax if it meant getting out illegals. Plus there is always the possibility that a private company could take over border control. I believe that would be the best thing to due, I know a few ex-contractors that live here and would be willing to do that.

Doc
5 years 48 weeks ago, 11:02 AM

runawaygun762

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Keeping out illegals

won't happen unless we are allowed to start shooting on sight. When you have nothing, you will take chances to get something.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 48 weeks ago, 11:08 AM

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Well of course that won't happen under the current administration, but if the right Texan got in as Governor and were seceded it could pass. however the problem with that is hitting legals or the patrol getting trigger happy and opening up on a family. Bad press not so good.

Doc
5 years 48 weeks ago, 1:43 PM

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No civil war?

So how would a secession occur without an armed rebellion? Is the US going to let Texas go? Come on.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 48 weeks ago, 11:17 AM

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is a dumb one. It won't happen. This has gotten boring

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 48 weeks ago, 11:21 AM

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If you're not interested step out, there maybe people here who do want to have a nice hypothetical conversation about it. It's how we learn and understand what actions to take before something happens.

Doc
5 years 48 weeks ago, 11:26 AM

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Okay, TacDoc

hypothetically speaking, if Texas tried to secede, it would be forecefully brought back by federal troops, and if that failed, Mexico would take it back. So hypothetically speaking, one state trying to secede is an asinine thought.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 48 weeks ago, 11:35 AM

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is it possible for this country to send an army to keep a state from seceding...and in essence being in a civil war??

I have reasons for the things I do, just don't expect them to be reasonable
5 years 48 weeks ago, 11:43 AM

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Because of threat of force? If Texas does not do it violently the US should have no reason to threaten them and if they did wage war on there own soil it will be an even longer and drawn out war then Afganistan or Iraq combined. Plus there's no promise that other super powers wouldn't turn on the US once one of their own states stood up to them. Lets not forget the fucking aliens they'll come back and melt the planet or something holy unbelievable like that. Runaway we get it it's impossible that's your opinion like it always is. Can we please still talk about it.

Doc
5 years 48 weeks ago, 11:45 AM

runawaygun762

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ivantank

In the event of a civil war, troops would get called in from overseas. A single state, even the all-powerful Republic of Texas would easily be brought under control, but a new civil war, involving 11 actively rebelling states would be a disaster. The federal military would be torn apart, as many would desert with whatever military weapons and equipment they could get ahold of and go home. The federal government would end up making whatever concessions necessary to preserve the union. In the event of a successful split, one or both nations would be taken over by foreign powers.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 48 weeks ago, 11:58 AM

TacDoc

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Land does not determine a countries strength, just cause all 50 states wouldn't belong to one country does mean the rest of the world would engulf them.

Doc
5 years 48 weeks ago, 11:59 AM

charley9toe

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Doubtful

They don't need too. You have a good chunk of military in Tex. anyway. Anyone think they're going to pick up and leave ? Doubtful! Texas could not sustain itself no matter what some wacko, politician or seperatist Org is saying. Think it through then evaluate the outcome....

(You have to look behind all of that outer space stuff)
5 years 48 weeks ago, 12:00 PM

runawaygun762

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in a country's strength. Especially ours. Our geographic location has prevented invasion for a long time now. If the southern states were to secede from the union, do you really think the Mexicans wouldn't invade or allow another nation(s) to invade either during the civil war or immediately afterward?

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 48 weeks ago, 12:05 PM

TacDoc

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They are already invading... The mexican government doesn't have the balls to invade. All you are thinking is invasions and war war war war, cause you're a soldier that's what you know, I'm trying to talk about the economics and politics. But no a discussion can never go as wanted on here.

Doc
5 years 48 weeks ago, 12:15 PM

ivantank

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TacDOC, can Texas

feed itself,?? can any one state have all that it needs to be on its own? i dont see it..your right a military solution is not necessary..an embargo cut them off from the world..the populace will run come to mother washington crying

I have reasons for the things I do, just don't expect them to be reasonable
5 years 48 weeks ago, 12:18 PM

runawaygun762

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Holy crap, TacDoc

This very discussion started out as something diferent. The economics and political debate is driven by the military debate. As for me not knowing about economics or political climate because I'm a soldier, you're wrong as two boys fucking on the white house lawn. I can tell you a lot about the political and economic climate, as well as the social climate of Iraq, because that affects my mission. War, war, war, is not the only thing that occurs to many of us professional soldiers. Your hypothetical situation could not occur without a military action first, then political and economic development.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 48 weeks ago, 12:27 PM

TacDoc

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I doubt that. Texas does have a lot of farming and ranching for food. Trust me I live in the west I see the thousands of private lands. They sell to companies at auction and the companies chop em up. We can more then feed ourselves. Oil is running dry but it is everywhere. We could import from Russia if we wanted to which the US doesn't fully look at. Alot of heathcare and technological development happens in Texas there would be no problem in keeping up, and I'm sorry without the US keeping down projects I believe they could by pass the US completely. I don't believe for a second that the whole World would agree to an embargo against Texas. Take France for example if you go there and say you are an American they hate you, if you say you're Texan they love you. I know this for a fact because my friend is an American citizen but was raised in France now he lives in Texas and visits France every year. The world hates America not individual states. What is Obama gonna do threaten to nuke us if we did it. I'm sorry I think the politics show that the war would be waged on America not the states that secede. Overall I think that if we were free of the US's debt Texas would have the ability to support itself also I think if they implemented new taxes here that would replace the Federal taxes we would more than make up for ourselves in cash. The benefit of a new country is they could turn around a market because they could reset the prices of everything.

Doc
5 years 48 weeks ago, 12:48 PM

runawaygun762

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The whole world?

The whole world doesn't need an embargo. Do you have any idea how expensive Russian oil would be for Texas? Obama wouldn't have to threaten with nukes. Texas, as powerful as some of the inbred hee-haws think it is, wouldn't last as a nation. Even if people love Texans, more people would love to have a strong geographic position against the United States. And even more people would love to see Texas return to Mexico. Sure, Texas could support itself economically, but not militarily and at the risk of sounding too much like a dumb fucking soldier who only knows war, war, war, the military aspect is the most important one.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 48 weeks ago, 1:07 PM

TacDoc

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Thank you for admitting they can support themself economically. Militarily is never clear cut. Hmm American Rebellion ring a bell?

Doc
5 years 48 weeks ago, 1:17 PM

runawaygun762

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In this case it's very clear cut. One state will not hold out against two nations. I know Texans are supermen and all, but following your hypothetical situation of Texas by itself, there is absolutely no way it would stand up against the forces that would come against it. The American Revolution was a different issue entirely. I know Americans love to think they beat the British, but the American Colonies was not a top priority for the british empire. Imagine what the end results would have been had the bulk of the british empire been in Canada instead of an Island thousands of miles away. Different situation. So since you tried to make me out to be a single-minded soldier, now I'm going to call you out as someone who has no grasp of warfare.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 48 weeks ago, 1:33 PM

TacDoc

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And that's fine call me what you want you do it all the time. The truth is I wanted to avoid the topic of civil war but you as always have to push it. Truth is you don't have a fucking clue what your Commander in Chief would do if such a situation came about, you have no idea what Texas's military strength is you don't know that in almost every city in Texas there is a guard base did you know that? So i'm calling you out as someone who has no fucking clue what we're talking about.

Doc
5 years 48 weeks ago, 1:41 PM

runawaygun762

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TacDoc

There a national guard armory (what you call a base) in nearly every decent-sized city in America. I know very well what the military strength is of Ft Hood, Ft Bliss, and Ft Sam Houston, as well as the smaller army posts and other military installations. I can, from this computer, look up every single US military installation in the world, to include camps in Iraq and Afghanistan. So your attempt to "call me out" is asinie.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 48 weeks ago, 1:54 PM

TacDoc

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No they are state guard bases, not national there are only a few national guard bases in West Texas but every city over 20,000 has a state base. Yes you can look up US military installation... These are NOT US military installations. The Republic of Texas has 7 foot regiments, 3 air regiments, 1 medical brigade, and 1 naval brigade. Texas probably won't plan on invaded the US just defending themselves which including the National Guard in Texas, which is made up of Texas's probably would be able to hold off the US military.

http://www.agd.state.tx.us/

Doc
5 years 48 weeks ago, 1:59 PM

TacDoc

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And the political and

And the political and economical debate is not driven by the military debate. Don't be crazy nothing militarily and I mean wars, doesn't happen without the approval of politicians. The military doesn't run the world.

Doc
5 years 48 weeks ago, 2:03 PM

runawaygun762

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I looked at the Texas State Guard stuff. It's a fucking joke. Texas "probably" won't invade because Texas wouldn't exist as a nation. I'm sure you quakers from PA are impressed with the stars shining bright and big at night deepinahearta Texas and all, but you are getting ridiculous. You find me one person even somewhat knowledgeable in military affairs that will agree with your assumptions and I'll say you've got a case. As for what the feds would do in the event of a secession attempt, if you really think they wouldn't use military force to stop it, you are smoking some space crack.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 48 weeks ago, 2:10 PM

TacDoc

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Originally they wouldn't because they didn't during the civil war either the states seceded legally, the war started when the South attacked the North. If Texas held back and were political, war may be avoidable. I love how you pick out the statements from my posts that weren't even the major points.

Doc
5 years 48 weeks ago, 2:17 PM

TacDoc

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And what part on the whole website tells you they are a joke it doesn't seem that much different from the army website does that means the army is a joke. No you don't know a thing until you seem them in action you should know that.

Doc
5 years 48 weeks ago, 2:20 PM

runawaygun762

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So what is your point?

Texas has lots of crops, lots of mule deer, lots of buildings, and a coastline. What is your point? That Texas could function on its own? Assuming nobody ever attacked the state, then sure it could. Just about every state could. So that takes care of that point. The reality of that situation is that the political decision to secede would lead to the military decision by the feds to stop it. And if Texas were to be successful, Mexico would make the political then military decision to attack either during the secession attempt or immediately afterward before Texas gets a chance to recover and become viable.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 48 weeks ago, 2:23 PM

runawaygun762

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but what support would they have? In the event of a secession attempt, Texas would begin a conscription, so the state guard isn't anything special. Even if everyone in Texas joined to fight, the state would lose. You are giving the state too much credit. The texas state guard is nothing more than a state-funded militia. Much like the national guard.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 48 weeks ago, 2:34 PM

TacDoc

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And what makes the army better than a militia? I'm sorry it is not definite that military action would be taken. Why would it be taken cause you say it should? I'm sorry there's no historical precendent for it the civil war was started by the south if Texas were to secede peacefully the US has no standing to invade. To do so would be an atrocity and I'm pretty sure the UN would begin sanctions and if the US continued on with the war I'm sure the shit would open up on them. Look you can jump to a thousand different conclusions the point is WE DON"T KNOW WHAT WOULD HAPPEN. All i wanted to talk about is if they support themselves which we seem to at some point agreed on. But as always runaway you are hell bent on proving the dumb inbred Quaker from PA turned Texan, into an uneducated dumbass. And i'm sorry you're a solider, but your MOS is an MP, grand scale invasion doesn't seem like your strong suit.

Doc
5 years 48 weeks ago, 2:40 PM

runawaygun762

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Okay, TacDoc

Answer me this; do you really think the federal government would allow a state to secede without military intervention? This should be good.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 48 weeks ago, 2:47 PM

TacDoc

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Yes, at the current time, the military is stretched too thin. With Obama's commitment of troops to Afganistan and Iraq still unstable as a country, there isn't enough force. What are they gonna do drop a nuke on us. I'm sorry if Texas is political and peaceful if the US were to start a war on it's on soil against it's own "citizens" the political and social repercussions are immense. A violent answer to a peaceful problem is never the answer. It would anger the rest of the country especially one CNN starts showing little kids in Dallas laying in the street, I'm sorry I don't think the country would put up with that, military would in turn cause military action against the US possibly from other states, and other countries. But I think mainly if it were to happen now there wouldn't be enough military force to fully recapture.

Doc
5 years 48 weeks ago, 2:52 PM

runawaygun762

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You are truly living in a different world. This has gotten ridiculous. I'll leave this garbage alone and let someone else weigh in because there is no sense trying to debate even a hypothetical situation with someone who is this out of touch with reality.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 48 weeks ago, 2:53 PM

TacDoc

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I'm not out of touch I just know politics.

Doc
5 years 48 weeks ago, 2:56 PM

Schuyler

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Do you actually think the average Texan citizen would support pulling out of the Republic? Serious question. I don't know the answer myself.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
5 years 48 weeks ago, 3:01 PM

TacDoc

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It's not immediately

It's not immediately considered here. Only in passing will the topic come up. I've never really heard people seriously discuss it. Most people just complain about how much Obama sucks but never really have an idea on how to fix it.

Doc
5 years 48 weeks ago, 3:08 PM

runawaygun762

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No, Schuyler

People may hate the new administration, but to support secession is going too far for anyone but those like MannyG.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.

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