uglymech6153  |
Is this how it's done in the lone star state? TX: While Family Was Off-Roading a 7-Year-Old Boy Was Shot and Killed By an Armed Couple Who Claimed Family Was Trespassing On Property According to the Associated Press on May 9th: HOUSTON - A 7-year-old boy who was allegedly shot in the head by a couple who thought he and three other people were trespassing on their property died Saturday, authorities said. Donald Coffey Jr. died Saturday morning at a Houston hospital, less than two days after the boy was struck in the head by shotgun pellets, Sheriff's Cpl. Hugh Bishop said. Sheila Muhs and her husband, Gayle Muhs, both 45, were charged with second-degree felony counts of aggravated assault in the shootings Thursday. They were being held at Liberty County Jail with bail set at $25,000 each and had not yet retained an attorney, Bishop said. Bishop said the district attorney could upgrade the charges to murder on Monday, but investigators were "still trying to get the circumstances behind the incident." The boy, his 5-year-old sister, their father and a family friend were off-roading near a residential area about 40 miles northeast of Houston when they were shot after stopping so the children could go to the bathroom. Authorities said the couple fired after they mistakenly thought the group was trespassing on their property. Bishop said the area includes a dirt road, trees and overgrown brush and that it wasn't uncommon for people to go off-roading there. The Houston Chronicle reported that a sign in front of the suspects' home reads: "Trespassers will be shot. Survivers will be reshot!! Smile I will." Liberty County Chief Deputy Ken DeFoor said Sheila Muhs fired a 12-gauge shotgun once, then handed it to her husband, who also fired once. DeFoor said Sheila Muhs then called 911 and told the dispatcher: "They're out here tearing up the levee, so I shot them." DeFoor said the levee belonged to the subdivision and was not private property. Bishop said there was no indication the unarmed victims did anything threatening toward the Muhs. Donald Coffey Sr. suffered a pellet wound in his right shoulder and his daughter, Destiny, suffered a wound to the elbow. The family friend, 30-year-old Patrick Cammack, was in serious condition Saturday with a head wound, Memorial Hermann-Texas Medical Center spokeswoman Alex Rodriguez said. More: Texas, Armed Citizens, Shootings, kids & guns The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps!
Eleanor Roosevelt, First Lady of th
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ivantank
saw a picture of these two stellar human beings......GUILTY
charley9toe
Kinda makes me sick. I'm sure the incident will make all the airwaves.
Gunnin88
Nothing suprises me with all the brainless morons that live in Texas but this is just sad.
runawaygun762
law doesn't say you can shoot trespassers without a reasonable fear of imminent bodily harm. Even if this was private property, they were wrong.
TacDoc
No some judges like to hear that you were in fear of your life but Texas Penal code says force is authorized just for trespassing. Looks like deadly force requires notion of harm but the code is strew between force and deadly force. They interchange the words a lot.
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/DocViewer.aspx?K2DocKey=odbc%3a%2f...
Look for subchapter D
runawaygun762
Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
The way I read it, deadly force can only be used to prevent arson, burglary, robbery, theft at night (odd) or criminal mischief and lesser means cannot be reasonably used. It doesn't have a provision for deadly force to prevent trespassing unless other criminal acts are or may occur.
TacDoc
The section before it reads about 'force' being used for trespassing. (Well placed round in the leg?) But still why else would some weirdo you didn't know be in your house except to fuck you up or steal shit.
TacDoc
But actually I just realized what we were posting on... Yeah these dumb fucks were in the wrong cause those people weren't even on their land. Did you know the kid died?
TacDoc
But the LEO's around here have told me that you can give a verbal warning to someone and if they don't leave immediately you are authorized to shoot.
ronin1604
I'm a native texan, and don't really appriciate you classifying everyone in the state as " Brainless morons". I've traveled extensivly, and feel that texans by and large are generally more polite and courtious then most. Now having said that, and being a multi-gun owning texan with "no trespassing marked property, I find their behavior inexcusable. Even if the people were on their property, force was not the answer. 99% of the time all I have ever had to do was tell the people to stay off, and problem solved, The fact that I carry open on my property might affect this. If it continues to be a problem, call the sheriff, To easy. GUILTY, toss their asses in prison.
Gunnin88
I understand your displeasure with my statement, and knew full good and well it would rub some people the wrong way. I stand behind it however. I have been to Texas on many occasions and work with people from Texas on a regular basis. It's a stereotype for sure, but a well educated one.
TacDoc
What Texans are you working with cause there are all kinds, I'm from the North lets have an educated discussion on the species Texan
Mosinfreak
i was in training with a real winner from seatle who's favorite pastime was head-butting wooden-posted stop signs out of the ground. while down here, he tried it on our stop signs which have metal posts and are in concrete...of course i shouldn't have to tell you that he knocked himself the f*** out. 'brainless morons' indeed
Gunnin88
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG6X-xtVask&eurl=http://www.dumpfly.com/T...
Lol you gotta love em.
texas 911
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9stLf3ZH8o
I think the worst part is or what shapes my stereotype, is the fact so many Texans I have met think their state is the best in the union, and that they are some how better than the rest. .
TacDoc
Okay Guinn it's just not Texas that does voting like that, there's videos of US Congress doing it too. And as working in Emergency Services I can tell you there are people like the 911 guy all over the country.
The reason they think their state is better is cause in reality it is. Sometimes the scenery isn't great, but Texas is one of the states that would be able to sustain itself if it split. We don't draw power from other states, we produce fresh water for about 1/4 of the country, we produce more oil, Alaska would produce more but they aren't allowed to, and we DEFINITELY have the prettiest girls down here.
ivantank
i still gonna stay a cowboy fan
ronin1604
As a native texan ( I grew up by Amarillo), all I can say is....AMEN BROTHER!
TacDoc
Yeah I'm not native but I got here as soon as I could right? But can I ask I question where'd the Ronin come from?
runawaygun762
are different completely. In the eyes of the law, there is no such thing as warning shots or shooting to wound. If you shoot someone in the leg, the law sees it as you using deadly force. You just can't shoot. Arizona is the same as Texas in that you can physically stop someone fromtaking your porch swing, but you can't go to deadly force unless the offender escalates or you meet the other criteria of reasonable fear of iminent death or serious bodily harm. Force is physical intervention, deadly force is physical intervention with a deadly weapon. That was a very general differentiation (is that a word, 5in1killa?), but it's basically accurate.
TacDoc
Whatever runaway I just live hear and talk to the LEO's I don't know anything...
runawaygun762
You living there and talking to LEOs means nothing. If LEOs we completely proficient at their job in interpreting the law, no innocent person would ever be arrested, would they. I copied and pasted the applicable section for all to see, and I am telling you there is a difference between force and deadly force. If you choose to take the word of civil authorities, go ahead. I really couldn't care less. The litmus test applied in any criminal case is what a reasonable person would do in the same situation, given the same information as the accused had at the time. A reasonable person would not open fire on an intruder in their yard after dark unless there is something else going on. Get pissed all you want, it doesn't affect me in the slightest. I'll provide information as I can, and you do with it what you will.
TacDoc
well since they are the ones that would be arresting me I'm going to take their word over yours.
runawaygun762
Okay, I don't give a shit. But "my word" is that you have to use more discretion when using deadly force than they are saying, so what are they going to do? Arrest you for not shooting a trespasser? They tell you you have to give a verbal warning then shoot, I'm telling you you can't shoot a trespasser on your land for just for trespassing , no matter how loud you shout or warn. Which bit of advice is more likely to hold up in criminal court. You are boring me now.
Shakleford
There are people like this in every state! White Trash Idiots are found everywhere! I'am Praying for the family involved and hoping these sons of bitches fry for what they did!
Gunnin88
You said:
"The reason they think their state is better is cause in reality it is. Sometimes the scenery isn't great, but Texas is one of the states that would be able to sustain itself if it split. We don't draw power from other states, we produce fresh water for about 1/4 of the country, we produce more oil, Alaska would produce more but they aren't allowed to, and we DEFINITELY have the prettiest girls down here.
1st off your state does not produce 1/4 of the country's drinking water, not sure why you would even think that.
I have been to Texas many times and you DO NOT BY ANY MEANS HAVE THE PRETTIEST GIRLS! although there are a fair number, if your into trailer trash with big hair, thick souther draws.
You proved my point to a tee and proved you are just another of the people that make all Texans look like arrogant bastards.
You took offense you said in your first post, well thats great! offense was intended..lol
TacDoc
Ha ha I'm not a Texan dumbass, I'm from Pennsylvania I moved here 2 years ago for school. Yeah what parts of Texas were you in, you need to know where to go to find the pretty girls just like any state. I'm sorry I meant we produce power, maybe not for a 1/4 of the country but I know the Houston power plants and water facilities would be able to supply Texas. Justifying my point that we would be able to split if we wanted to. Where are you getting your statistics by the way? I know the people that run those plants. I've seen most of the country and Texas has some great looking women or at least then end up here. Every place has their fat chicks, trailer trash, and junkies, but in Texas the numbers are on the better side. Like I said you need to be in the right place. For instance college towns the best college girls in Texas are in Lubbock at Texas Tech. At A&M is just to country bumkin, and UT has been upping the Hispanic population at their school. As a young guy who's been around a bunch and moved 1500 miles, I'm gonna say you need to live in a place to understand things not just what you picked up on your hunting trip.
TacDoc
You know guinn I'm curious you're profile says you're a body shop manager? So what are you doing working with Texans when you live in Washington? I'm just curious cause I love to negate stereotypes of all kinds. Yes I'm a republican, yes I like guns, no I didn't vote for Obama just to clear up the liberal bullshit from you. I'm just a person with an open mind to other people.
Schuyler
This isn't getting anyone anywhere. Pretty girls and stereotypes are everywhere. And bremelos aren't just in Bremerton.
samD
Short arm inspection 1600 hours conducted by Rabbi ebear!
runawaygun762
You have any idea what a hassle it is to unwrap this "short arm" of mine from around my waist? I have to go into the bathroom five minutes before I actually pee and whenever I get a boner, I pass out due to blood loss from my head and constriction around my abdomen. It's difficult sometimes. And even the local cows have learned to avoid me. Thank God for ebear's deep colon and blown O-ring.
Gunnin88
I used to run a wrecking yard and Texas has some of the biggest in the country. We would visit there often for training and such tripple A small car world I belive was the name of it. We travled all over Texas on about 6 diffrent trips.
Texas does not stand a chance of leaving the US at this point. If they did the flood of people trying to move there would desimate the state in a matter of weeks. Food, Water , property ect would be in short suplly in no time.
TacDoc
except for the simple fact that they could just close their borders? But i really doubt there are people out there like us that would do that we are to far and few between.
runawaygun762
Okay, they can't stop illegals from coming through the southern border, but you think they can close all borders? Texas will never secede and would be stopped by the federal government if they tried. Texas is not a country unto itself, and Texans do not have supernatural abilities to rebel. Obama is trying to take too much power, on this most of us agree. but the idea of a state trying to secede is asinine and if the federal gubmint didn't take it back, Mexico would. Texas may be a big state, but it would make a small, weak country.
ivantank
the only export they have is potatos and bullshit..!!
runawaygun762
Texas has one of, if not the, strongest economies of any state in the nation. However, like all other states, Texas would not be able to compete as a nation.
TacDoc
Second largest economy in the US, we were just talking the logistics of it, no I don't believe it'll ever happen but still. and Texas isn't involved with border patrol at all that is all Federal and you know that Runaway, A border fortification would create jobs to boost our economy ha ha.
runawaygun762
without CBP? The logistics of a secession are simple; impossible.
samD
then so be it. Let Texans pay for it and withold the cost from what is transferred to the fed. Use their Texas National Guard to defend their borders. Start a militia, use the Texas Rangers, enact State Laws regarding illegals. Sounds easy, right? But the rub is Washington controls the purse strings, so they have to get the funds from DC. I think we need more States Rights and less Federal Intrusion. Let's keep all taxes collected in a state and send the Feds any that is leftover. States will be taxed for their % of the US Military.
TacDoc
Yea one thing most of you don't know there is very little tax in Texas, mainly property and sales. There is so much more Texas could tax so there is a place to get the money. And I bet you Texans would pay new tax if it meant getting out illegals. Plus there is always the possibility that a private company could take over border control. I believe that would be the best thing to due, I know a few ex-contractors that live here and would be willing to do that.
runawaygun762
won't happen unless we are allowed to start shooting on sight. When you have nothing, you will take chances to get something.
TacDoc
Well of course that won't happen under the current administration, but if the right Texan got in as Governor and were seceded it could pass. however the problem with that is hitting legals or the patrol getting trigger happy and opening up on a family. Bad press not so good.
runawaygun762
So how would a secession occur without an armed rebellion? Is the US going to let Texas go? Come on.
runawaygun762
is a dumb one. It won't happen. This has gotten boring
TacDoc
If you're not interested step out, there maybe people here who do want to have a nice hypothetical conversation about it. It's how we learn and understand what actions to take before something happens.
runawaygun762
hypothetically speaking, if Texas tried to secede, it would be forecefully brought back by federal troops, and if that failed, Mexico would take it back. So hypothetically speaking, one state trying to secede is an asinine thought.
ivantank
is it possible for this country to send an army to keep a state from seceding...and in essence being in a civil war??
TacDoc
Because of threat of force? If Texas does not do it violently the US should have no reason to threaten them and if they did wage war on there own soil it will be an even longer and drawn out war then Afganistan or Iraq combined. Plus there's no promise that other super powers wouldn't turn on the US once one of their own states stood up to them. Lets not forget the fucking aliens they'll come back and melt the planet or something holy unbelievable like that. Runaway we get it it's impossible that's your opinion like it always is. Can we please still talk about it.
runawaygun762
In the event of a civil war, troops would get called in from overseas. A single state, even the all-powerful Republic of Texas would easily be brought under control, but a new civil war, involving 11 actively rebelling states would be a disaster. The federal military would be torn apart, as many would desert with whatever military weapons and equipment they could get ahold of and go home. The federal government would end up making whatever concessions necessary to preserve the union. In the event of a successful split, one or both nations would be taken over by foreign powers.
TacDoc
Land does not determine a countries strength, just cause all 50 states wouldn't belong to one country does mean the rest of the world would engulf them.
charley9toe
They don't need too. You have a good chunk of military in Tex. anyway. Anyone think they're going to pick up and leave ? Doubtful! Texas could not sustain itself no matter what some wacko, politician or seperatist Org is saying. Think it through then evaluate the outcome....