Forums / Gun Discussion / J Frame S@W Airweight .38s

4 years 17 weeks ago, 6:13 PM

vic Kraft

vic Kraft's picture

Rank:
Second Lieutenant
Points:
23
Join Date:
Aug 2010
Location:
Old Town, Maine, United States

I have been carrying a s@w airweight for many years now. I have had one since 1971. At first it was difficult to fire but after practice it became easy. Strong grip combat style works the best for me. Years ago the subject of it being a under powered firearm was an issue but is no longer true. Ballistics have come a long way and with proper placement this gun works. Using a pancake side holster with two belt loops works best for me but I also have a shoulder, pocket, fanny pack, cross draw and ankle holster for when the occasion is right. Unlike new guns you can find this stuff in bins for a few bucks. Some have never been used. The pancake in the FBI tilt slightly to the rear of your side is a fast draw and easy to hide in summer or winter. The airweight being small and light means you will carry it at all times. Ether you carry all the time or not at all. That is my rule of thumb. With a lock box in the vehicle under the 1968 Firearms Act you can transport it to any state just as long as you are taking it to another state that you can carry.
I am sick of hearing from the 45's people about how great their gun is and when I ask them where its at they say at home. So add a flashlight and a cell phone and you have your home security system.
I suggest if you get this weapon you should get a .22 snub for practice. .22 are cheap. The trigger pull on the .22 is stiff and this makes the adjustment for the more powerful kick of the .38+P. As for +P you do not need to carry it except in the winter. It goes threw more jackets and clothing. I use the centennials so they do not get caught in my clothing. I have a .357 s@w that is just 22 ounces. It has a half inch longer barrel, which makes it a true .357 which I use when for cases that involve might be more problematic. Its the same weight as the Mod. 60 Chief Special.
So if you have questions please ask or if you have ideas please state them. For instance, I go to the range and watch people double tap putting one in the chest and one in the head. Knowing that 95% of head shots are none fatal I will question them. If they ask I will then show them how to do it properly. It's not a new method but it is a forgotten one. Well hope some one reads this.

P.S. I like the Rank of Ssgt and please if you would leave me at that. If you can. Thanks, Vic Kraft P.I.

VK
4 years 17 weeks ago, 6:37 PM

CharlesW

CharlesW's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
4860
Join Date:
Dec 2009
Location:
Live in the wilderness, Republic of Texas, United States

The rank system here isn't really a rank.
I am a general because I have over 3,000
posts. That is the only reasson.
SamD and Reaper are the only folks here
with any clout. They are admins.
Ofcource there are the owners of the site
but they rarely come on line.

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
4 years 17 weeks ago, 7:03 PM

vic Kraft

vic Kraft's picture

Rank:
Second Lieutenant
Points:
23
Join Date:
Aug 2010
Location:
Old Town, Maine, United States
But I like my Rank

Thanks for the info.

VK
4 years 17 weeks ago, 7:07 PM

CharlesW

CharlesW's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
4860
Join Date:
Dec 2009
Location:
Live in the wilderness, Republic of Texas, United States
Vic 2 more rockers

and a gold Maple Leaf would look good

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
4 years 17 weeks ago, 4:46 AM

LLE

LLE's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
2910
Join Date:
Jul 2008
Location:
United States

statistics, and I am always curious as to whether a particular quotation should be taken as valid.

Your assertion ["knowing that"] 95% of head shots are none[sic] fatal--cannot be taken seriously, unless you tell us how you know that. That is, under what conditions is this assertion true--- at what distances, what calibers, at what mv/me, and what impact location points, for example. When one thinks about your statement, one wonders if, it could be true under all possible conditions. I doubt it.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
4 years 16 weeks ago, 5:21 PM

vic Kraft

vic Kraft's picture

Rank:
Second Lieutenant
Points:
23
Join Date:
Aug 2010
Location:
Old Town, Maine, United States
Answer

I was given this info from a firearms instructor who is a NRA and Maine Criminal Justice Academy instructor. I did not question him but in the form of what he was teaching it had to do with handguns only. It is obvious that a rifle round would blow right threw your head. Most police shooting are in close proximity. So are most street shooting. The mob killed many with .22 by shooting on the side of the head but this was not what we were discussing. We were talking about double tap shots, one to the chest and one to the head. The skull is the strongest part of the body with the eyes, nose, jaw line, mouth being very venable. So you would be shooting at a target the size of a silver dollar to hit those areas. Again I did not question the instructor, since he was my Sgt, and Lt. back when I was a cop and we shot competition together. But he never brought it up back then so I suspect this is newer info. So this most likely was something taught at the Academy. I would agree that some calibers could punch a hole in the skull, but these same calibers are probably not used as much in street fights. I would suspect that the .357, .357 sig, 44. mag. and even the small 5.78.28 FN rounds would work well. I laughed when I first saw the FN but it went right threw one of my old vest like it was a rifle shot and not a small handgun. Again your question are good ones and when I speak to Mike Zubic again I will ask him. By the way, what does mv/me stand for. Sorry I do not have a better answer.

VK
4 years 16 weeks ago, 6:11 AM

LLE

LLE's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
2910
Join Date:
Jul 2008
Location:
United States

mv= muzzle velocity; me= muzzle energy

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
4 years 17 weeks ago, 6:32 AM

luckybychoice

luckybychoice's picture


Rank:
Secretary of the Treasury
Points:
6793
Join Date:
May 2009
Location:
United States
Man or Beast

if you shoot it in the face,it's gonna leave you alone,i read that somewhere

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
4 years 16 weeks ago, 7:56 AM

vic Kraft

vic Kraft's picture

Rank:
Second Lieutenant
Points:
23
Join Date:
Aug 2010
Location:
Old Town, Maine, United States
Maybe not

I used cap-stun on a Pit Bull once and it worked. Hit him right in the face. Chained him back up and even wiped off his eyes. Turned around and he bit me in the ass. Would not let go just hung on my ass as I looked around and everyone was yelling don't shoot him. I pulled out my Glock .40 and was going to fire and I thought if this does not penetrate his head it could ricochet off its hard head and hit me so I did not fire. Another officer got it to turn on him and let go of my ass and we both got out of its range. The owner was just standing with a smile on his face until I wrote him a summons, turned to the office and told them to take the dogs head to the state lab and test it for rabies. We never did that but I wanted to. So if anyone has every shot a pitt bull in the head with a .40 did it work or not. I still do not know the answer to that. This took place in 1992 on an Indian reservation.

Vic.

VK
4 years 16 weeks ago, 9:00 AM

Reaper308

Reaper308's picture


Rank:
Secretary of Defense
Points:
6226
Join Date:
Jun 2008
Location:
Airstrip One, Oceania
yes

you're .40 would easily penetrate the skull of a pitbull

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
4 years 16 weeks ago, 7:57 AM

vic Kraft

vic Kraft's picture

Rank:
Second Lieutenant
Points:
23
Join Date:
Aug 2010
Location:
Old Town, Maine, United States
My Rank

Hay, can I like say something like a bad word and get demoted back to Ssgt. F##k. Hows that.

VK
4 years 16 weeks ago, 8:51 AM

CharlesW

CharlesW's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
4860
Join Date:
Dec 2009
Location:
Live in the wilderness, Republic of Texas, United States

You an officer now lmao

The rank just shows you are actively posting.
No more no less

samD and Reaper308 are the only bad dogs
on the street. they are the MODS

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
4 years 16 weeks ago, 9:37 AM

Ranger Sarge

Ranger Sarge's picture

Rank:
Brigadier General
Points:
232
Join Date:
Jul 2010
Location:
Kentucky, United States
vic

you think your 40 cal. won't put the down the dog and 95% of head shots aren't fatal.......you must have some good meds.....

The hardest part about living is not dying,it's having something that lives in you,die.
4 years 16 weeks ago, 11:08 PM

ACE

ACE's picture

Rank:
Lieutenant General
Points:
1501
Join Date:
Jul 2010
Location:
Puryear, Tennessee, United States

Ranger. He's either on some good meds, or smoking some good shit, OR!!! Completely ill-informed!!! I think its the latter. I know a bullet, whether 9mm. .38 special, .40 cal, (these 3 whether up close or @ 25 or so feet) and even a .22 cal if placed @ the right spot on the head, (closer to the target, DUH!) WILL TAKE UR TARGET DOWN!!!!! PLEASE do not ask me how I know, on animals other than deer, Just trust me!!! When its seen w Ur own eyes, U pulling the trigger or not, U have a tendency to believe it. I was one of those kids, and still am as an adult, that when Im told it is "like" impossible, or "virtually" impossible, I have a NEED to get proof that they are right, or that I could prove them wrong. I understand it's just some peoples nature, and not everyone's, but I think that approach would benefit you right now. Not to prove someone wrong per-say, but to maybe just prove what is right!!! I am by NO MEANS saying go out and shoot some helpless animal just because, But when a large dog is coming after my children, I dont stop and think, "What did my instuctor/Srg. say??????" I just get it the hell away from me and my daughters by any means possible. Im just saying......

“When firearms go, all goes. We need them every hour.”- George Washington
4 years 16 weeks ago, 2:49 PM

Ranger Sarge

Ranger Sarge's picture

Rank:
Brigadier General
Points:
232
Join Date:
Jul 2010
Location:
Kentucky, United States
ACE

I know too,about animals we use to butcher our own cattle and hogs on the when I was a kid on the farm and used a 22 to the head to put them down.

The hardest part about living is not dying,it's having something that lives in you,die.
4 years 16 weeks ago, 9:58 AM

TXLUCKYGUY

TXLUCKYGUY's picture

Rank:
Major General
Points:
378
Join Date:
Dec 2009
head shots

There's a person walking around my AO, more or less high functioning, that was shot in the head (side, above ear) with a .40SW. Also, Google 'Dan Tice' if memory serves and you'll likely find a nasty pic of a fella shot in the forehead with an MP5 (9mm)...quite awake and "kicking". Gins are not magic death rays, and the human body can be tough to shut down.

A majority of the human headshots I've seen firsthand have been very close-range or contact shots with handguns (below .40cal), which are much destructive than a shot from a few feet or a few yards away (muzzle blast can act as a wounding mechanism on inelastic tissue like the brain in some contact shots).

There are no absolutes, and "head shot" is not a meaningful term (much too vague) with regards to actual terminal ballistics. If the brain stem (medulla oblongata) or spine above the shoulders is not damaged or destroyed by a projectile, there will most likely not be an immediate cessation of the person's activity or capability.

Aiming for structures located inside the head is useful in training with various firearms, just don't expect miracles to occur. Address the threat(s) until the threats are finished being threatening...simple. Don't expect things to go your way....if you're shooting at someone or they're shooting at you, things have already gone someone else's way.

As for the .38/.357 snubby, I've carried one as a backup/off-duty piece for years. Simple, reliable, and adequate for what I'd use it for. I much prefer a standard service piece (fullsize pistol), and carry one of those whenever possible. If I have any indication that things aree going south, I will do my damnedest to get a rifle or shotgun before the 2-way range opens.

4 years 16 weeks ago, 4:35 PM

Ranger Sarge

Ranger Sarge's picture

Rank:
Brigadier General
Points:
232
Join Date:
Jul 2010
Location:
Kentucky, United States
the human body

can be quite a tough target.Most glaning shots,people a can walk away from but a straight on shot from a few is almost a certain kill.Show me a number on 100 subjects shot straight in the forehead at 6 feet away and see how many can walk away or live.Shooting at the base of the brain stem(medulla oblongata which is generally reached by shooting through the upper lip area) is good for hostage situation because it instantly ceases all bodily function below the neck instantly(like pulling a trigger of a gun the shooter has against someone's head)

The hardest part about living is not dying,it's having something that lives in you,die.
4 years 16 weeks ago, 2:55 AM

Lyle Hutchins 1

Lyle Hutchins 1's picture

Rank:
Lieutenant General
Points:
1261
Join Date:
Feb 2009
Location:
Cee-more, Ok., United States
Head Shots

On a Human: With a 9MM, 2 center mass, (chest area) one to the face. Shoot between the Eyebrows, and the Moustache!! The Ocular cavity(sinious)
That's all that is nessary!! OOO!!! call the coroner.
Gonna butcher a beef?? .22 shot in the forehead!! The steer will drop like a rock. Stand back or you might get kicked!! Reflexis will be active for a minute or so. Hoist it up, and drain all red liquid from carcus.(cut it's throat). Some save the blood and make blood pudding. I don't like it!! But I like Head cheeze, on townhouse crackers.

Lyle

Lyle Hutchinson
4 years 16 weeks ago, 8:22 AM

CharlesW

CharlesW's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
4860
Join Date:
Dec 2009
Location:
Live in the wilderness, Republic of Texas, United States

Put 10 lbs of sugar in 5 gallons, freeze it
in ice trays. (special freezer helps)
Makes the best damn catfish bait there is

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
4 years 16 weeks ago, 8:14 AM

Ranger Sarge

Ranger Sarge's picture

Rank:
Brigadier General
Points:
232
Join Date:
Jul 2010
Location:
Kentucky, United States
Lyle.......

we shot a 700Lb steer that was too close to a wall and leaned over on wal and died and we like to never got him off that wall and off his feet.........I think the son of gun would still be leaning there today had we not pulled him over with a tractor.....lol

The hardest part about living is not dying,it's having something that lives in you,die.
4 years 16 weeks ago, 5:33 AM

mongo004

mongo004's picture

Rank:
Captain
Points:
31
Join Date:
Jun 2010
Head shots

One thing some of you are forgetting to mention here is 'what ammo is used' for the head shot? I agree with the statements about caliber not being a huge issue, a head shot is a head shot, it just depends where in the head and what angle the shot is from. In my Observer/Sniper school, yes, we delt more with rifle shots to the head, but the anatomy is the same regardless. The "golden triangle" the area above the top lip to the eyebrows is the front door to the pervious mentioned medulla. The sinus cavity is the only thing protecting the brain in that area, think about getting smacked in the snout and your eyes water, or a dog getting popped in the nose and it sneezes.
A bullet going through the sinus cavity will expend some energy, however the pressure going rearward into the brain is enough the cause truama prior to the bullet slicing through the brain tissue, an FMJ MIGHT not cause enough trauma to cause death, hence the stories about folks walking around with a bullet in the noodle. A hollow point that expands, not that they always do, can cause major trauma inside the brain and shut down the sympathetic nervous system, dead or not, the head shot subject is down and out for the time being.
A bullet entering a mass of muscle and liquids (a body) is subject to physics. I have worked suicides where a .45 ACP hollow point entered the temple and went about 2 1/2 inches and the person died. In another case, the bullet fired from a .357 Mag with a FMJ fired from under the chin, exited just above the left jawbone and ear, the guy lived and was alert while the medics were treating him and getting ready to load him into the ambulance. One other, a guy shot himself in the heart with a .22 short hollowpoint, he was pronounced dead at the scene.
If there is a moral to any of this, I guess it would be... double tap to the chest, one to the head and have a back-up plan if the fucker keeps coming after you! Thus, endth of sermon

4 years 16 weeks ago, 4:50 PM

Ranger Sarge

Ranger Sarge's picture

Rank:
Brigadier General
Points:
232
Join Date:
Jul 2010
Location:
Kentucky, United States
mongo004

I with your posting but the whole discussion started with it was posted that 95% of head shots aren't fatal.....I diasagreed with that statement.......95% of head shots I have seen were kills.

i'm editing this post most the a FMJ @about 450 yards less will cause enough damage to consider it a kill........

The hardest part about living is not dying,it's having something that lives in you,die.

Who's Online

Guns Lot Activity
Users
Currently Active Users: 861 (0 members and 861 guests)

Guns Lot Statistics
Stats Topics: 8,690, Comments: 161,618, Members: 23,517
Welcome our newest member: Hank6046

Recent Activity