Forums / Political & Legal / Is this a Liberal Mentality? Materialism? Elitism?

5 years 50 weeks ago, 10:59 PM

DEMO

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I am trying to evaluate the true Liberal mentality. The materialism and Elitism is bothering me. Bragging about your car, wifes tit job, education just to make yourself feel better.
Just becuase someone has less education than another, that does not make them superior. Snobs. I get annoyed by the 'i'm better than you' attitude while the same person talks about driving a hybrid. The judgementalism is horrible. They talk about tolerance while they are the most intolerant people. To see problems with how another lives their life is unAmerican.
I dont know. I just hate snobs. Is it a liberal thing? keeping up with the jones?

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5 years 50 weeks ago, 1:59 AM

Anonymous

i figured out real quick that doing this is a moot point.my sis and bro in law always try to do this with me.of course they both have jobs during this shit economy(lucky them).they always want my family to travel to their house(a 5 hour drive).they are always saying we will pay for it but i wont do it on the point of it isnt necessary.and when we do go to their house,which they proudly point out that they own there is no where to sleep but on the floor.ok,fine,they own their house but anyone can get financed and pay off a 30,000 dollar house in nowheresville,washington!their house is a tiny 1600 square foot 2 bedroom house in a deppressed economy town.i rent my home but i can seriously say that we can comfortably(real beds)sleep 12-14 extra people at our house via extra beds we keep on hand.not to mention we have the floor space.they talk about their new Yukon and their new 4 wheelers(4 of them)but at the same time they are bitching about the payments.my bro and sis in law literally have no personal relationship between themselves because they are working 2 jobs each to cover the bills.i own every vehicle we have(87 suburban,93 buick,86 F250 service truck,82 toyota pickup,72 chevy 4x4,2001 honda recon 4 wheeler)but they still try to talk shit.then when they come to visit us my brother in law spends the whole time he is here drooling over my gun collection.i say tell the joneses to fuck themselves!

5 years 50 weeks ago, 6:23 AM

coldfront

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well, while i think of what to say to this, I have to use my vast Phd knowledge to figure out how I'm going to get my wife's new boobs into my Lamborghini (if only I had a peons little american made car) hahahah

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 50 weeks ago, 6:27 AM

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I had a friend that bought a new car and a 4-wheeler. He didnt really brag but it was obvious he wanted to flaunt all his new shit.... anyway you could imagine my ear to ear grin when he was trying to fight off a repo because he lost his job (like thousands of others in this state) and could pay anymore.

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 50 weeks ago, 6:43 AM

DEMO

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Job losses suck

Too bad he lost his job. I hate hearing about working people-productive people losing their job when there is so much waste in this Nation.
My wife has a 10 year old hyundai she bought in college. My friends make fun of it sometimes but its paid for. Why buy a new car if its not needed. Its materialism. That thought concept has gotten us into the credit card mess. I feel we are being responsible by living within our means......

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5 years 50 weeks ago, 7:03 AM

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Demo

Your right. I like when people talk about europeans that live in a small house, no tv, not many material possesions..... ok, they also have no debt, no foreclosures, no credit card collection harrasser etc.... It is sad that we are like this. I just bought a used jeep cherokee (needed room for family) and still have my kia sportage 125K+ miles. they are both paid and they get me where i need to go. we cut premium channels and stay with basic cable, we spend more family time together now. its amasing how all these things add up. I work for myself and my wife works for a propane company, but it is getting so bad, that I'm looking for work to make sure I have a stable income with insurance. it just sucks. then you here about athletes complaing that they didnt get that extra 1.2 million in their contract. F THEM

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 50 weeks ago, 7:15 AM

LLE

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DEMO wrote:
I am trying to evaluate the true Liberal mentality. The materialism and Elitism is bothering me. Bragging about your car, wifes tit job, education just to make yourself feel better.
Just becuase someone has less education than another, that does not make them superior. Snobs. I get annoyed by the 'i'm better than you' attitude while the same person talks about driving a hybrid. The judgementalism is horrible. They talk about tolerance while they are the most intolerant people. To see problems with how another lives their life is unAmerican.
I dont know. I just hate snobs. Is it a liberal thing? keeping up with the jones?

It looks like you have already decided the "true Liberal mentality", by ascribing materialism, elitism, keeping up with the Jonses, snobishness, judgmentalism and intolerance [only] to the Libs. We would need a voluminous scientific study to prove or disprove your opinion or observations. In looking at the scientific study literature, we do not find conclusions that those personality characteristics you described, are attributable ONLY to people who claim to be Liberal or Progressive. Those personal characteristics are distributed across the political spectrum. It appears that you might have observed those characteristics being reflected only by people you have judged to be political "Liberals". I have observed those characteristics being reflected by people [including friends and relatives] whose Conservative political orientation I describe [even to them] as being three miles to the right of Ghengis Khan. The point is, NEITHER of our observations are sufficient to validly demonstrate what the "true" mentalities of either Liberals or Conservatives are. We need more conrtrolled studies to support or refute your opinion.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
5 years 50 weeks ago, 9:27 PM

DEMO

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I am raising this question. Is this a liberal mentality? Social research is not a scientific method in my opinion. This has been my experience with Liberal left people who preach tolerance but will not let their kids play with black kids. Its an experience vs perception issue I am experiencing. I have lived in very liberal areas like DC, New york, California and Chicago. Same experiences over and over again. Its not a provable hypothesis, I understand.
What I am asking about this is because it bothers me. Greed, predjudice and hypocracy. I am seeing Liberals who preach about inclusion, helping the poor and saving the environment but live in gated communities, never donate and drive SUV's. people that want gun control, but own guns.
Thats my confusion- my life experiences do not mirror idealologies.
I summarize by saying that liberals want all these ideas but the ideas only apply to other people.

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5 years 50 weeks ago, 10:44 PM

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First--What is your basis for the opinion that "Social research" is not a "scientific method". Are you aware of what the scientific method actually is, in relation to design of experiments or studies? The fact that it is human behavior that is being studied, does not mean that any less rigorous design and controls are being employed than if it is a chemistry, physics, medical or some other "hard " science experiment. It sounds as though your opinion was constructed to allow you to rationalize away the results of what you call "social research". It is an in-valid opinion.

Next, if you actually understood the scientific method, you could not come to a conclusion that ONLY Liberals behave the way you have described your experience. The most you could validly state, under scientific rigor, would be "I observed thus and so", and the scientists would reply, that is what we call "anecdotal evidence". That is, they were casual observations, not subjected to the scientific method. They may be interesting observations, but the conclusions you draw from them cannot be accepted as valid. The problem is, you have omitted controlled observations of Conservatives. The goal of a scientific experiment would be to determine if both groups behave differently or the same, under the same controlled conditions, related to social and economic stimuli, for example.

What you have "accused" Liberals of [in your last two sentences] can also be validly accused of Conservatives, because so far, good controlled studies have found no significant differences in the behavior of the two groups.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
5 years 50 weeks ago, 9:58 PM

DEMO

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I am not concluding anything- I am raising a question to you.
I was forced to do social research which should be called statistical manipulation. Any social research is only as good as the answers and population you sample from. Again, I am fully admitting my population sample is poor becuase I have made observations in very liberal areas. I have made observations from the media.
However, Social research has been and will always be a hypothesis which is being tried to prove. The percentiles during our "research" were not even binding when you look at numbers with enormous deviations. You are also at the mercy of the interpretation of the sample population, the interview method and truthfullness of the population.
just as you are misinterpreting my statement as I have clearly pointed out, the population sample interprets the questions with social, economic and religious differences.
Social research is not a statistical truth, it is a statistical interpretation which can be bent, manipulated and processed to finish any hypothesis.
I do understand that there are all types of people in all types of groups, I am raising the question about my observation.
Look at the doctors vs. Gunowners post. You would think from the social studies that firearms are killing people at record numbers. If you ask people from NY about what kills more people, they would choose guns becuase of the media, governmental and social norms that have indoctrinated them. A liberal standpoint is guns kill people in record numbers. What record numbers? where are they getting thier numbers. For me to fully understand the statistic social study, I would have to read the question, numbers, populations.....a blind study vs a controlled population...same shit. How many studies have you done. What is a good scientific correlation variance thats acceptable? Hoe can you have a linear vs. guiness curve with any reliability. Yes I understand a standard plot, but it is not scientific when the observer needs to interpret the data and tell us what it means.......

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5 years 50 weeks ago, 10:55 PM

LLE

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as far as accurate knowledge of the scientific method and design of experiments.

QUOTE: Social research has been and always will be a hypothesis which is being tried to prove: UNQUOTE.

I do not know what you were "forced" to do; but I am more certain than ever, that what you were forced to do and from which you gained your "understanding" of the scientific method, as reflected in the quote above, was grossly distorted. No study I have taken part in or read in the literature has "bent, manipulated and processed" statistical results so as to "prove" ANY hypothesis.
If you knew anything rudimentary about the design of experiments, you would never have embarassed yourself with that quote. Have you never heard of the "Null Hypothesis"? You should know that designs are structured to control variables, and to answer only one question: Do the results reflect the acceptance of the null hypothesis? If they do not, then state the data which appear to reject the null hypothesis, and defend the rejection.

What question are you raising to me?

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
5 years 50 weeks ago, 11:01 PM

Anonymous

demo and LLE!

ease up on the science!you guys are making me feel like a simpleton!

5 years 50 weeks ago, 1:33 AM

LLE

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we are talking about a subject like all other subjects [except maybe Relativity or Quantum Physics] that are learnable and understandable, if you are interested. If you are not interested, we are not going to try to convince you you should be, by calling you names or sticking labels on ya.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
5 years 50 weeks ago, 7:28 AM

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LLE...

is very wise (even if old) man...I didn't even read his whole post, but I am sure he enlightened you. I agree there are snobs of every color, race, creed, political affiliation, etc etc etc. I am not going profess to know all about liberalism, elitism or anything for that matter. But, my opinion of people who flaunt whatever it is they have is very low. I would like to point to Greasy's post though...I don't know this guy except for on this site, but he seems to have the right ideas about life, what's important and how to make it, even when the times are hard. He seems like a throwback to the Greatest Generation. The best times to get ready for the hard times are the good times...but so few do this. Save, invest, prepare for disaster, then when it hits, it's difficult rather than totally devastating.

By the way...glad to be back, still in Kuwait, possibly headed to Iraq in the coming weeks. There are jobs overseas for those inclined...it's hard being away especially if you are married, but jobs are available with DynCorp and KBR...

Patrolman Kato
Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself.
They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone
under independence. -- George Washington
5 years 50 weeks ago, 8:31 AM

clintlebo

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materialsm

Be it that materialism has it's downfalls, it also has helped to propel U.S.A. as the most powerful nation in history. Greed is visceral in nature and motivates people to work. I mean work in the pure definition, not the perceived definition. Stealing is working. Employment is working. You must ask yourself: Why do I work. I do not want to speak for anyone, but by extrapolating Greasy's post, he works to provide for his family and their modest life style. Coldfront works to supply his wife with new breats for two purposes. His pleasure and her safety as Lamboghini's do not have air bags.

clint

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5 years 50 weeks ago, 1:35 PM

LLE

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I hope Coldfront is not too upset with that particular brand of humor, because wives, as we have seen on another post, may be sacrosanct or untouchable, both literally and figuratively. I prefer not to be attacked for differing on what is or is not humorous or to be labelled a prude, but that "humor" is IMHO disrespectful to him and his wife, and is way over the line for reasonableness of content.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
5 years 50 weeks ago, 2:16 PM

clintlebo

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LLE

I read your comment, I am wondering if you read the entire thread, or if this is a knee jerk reaction. Coldfront is more than capable of defending himself. If he has a problem, he can contact me, there is no moral police on this board.

clint

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5 years 50 weeks ago, 2:21 PM

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cut it out clint

you are WAY out of line

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
5 years 50 weeks ago, 2:23 PM

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ahh

Officer Moral I pressume?

...check... G-AZ
5 years 50 weeks ago, 2:33 PM

clintlebo

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reperations

I forgot we can not question the great and mighty moral compass that is LLE.

I apologize and promise to suspend myself from anymore irrational behavior.

clint

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5 years 50 weeks ago, 7:26 PM

LLE

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and you have acknowledged my greatness, you are back in my good graces. My comments were written when I was off shift {thought police} and that is why I used the term IMHO. Yes, I read the thread. Conclusion: Coldfront making jokes about his wife's anatomy, IMO, does not suspend the necessity for good judgment on our part.

[Nothing herein contained is meant to connote upness on my part or downness on your part.]

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
5 years 50 weeks ago, 9:55 AM

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who has a mortgage on my house and truck and plenty of debt. with mortgages, bills, and home repairs every month....I was only able to buy one rifle last year! lol. My guns are the biggest asset that I actually own. Hey, atleast I still have a job, hopefully I can start putting a little away each month in savings some day, but not right now. I know I'm doing better than a lot of people because I can atleast pay for my shit, but its still month to month.

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
5 years 50 weeks ago, 10:18 AM

coldfront

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month to month

I hear ya reaper. I am in the same boat. Just refinanced mortgage to get better percentage. thank god i dont owe on my cars anymore but have a huge credit card bill. We can also make it month to month with a little money left over (which we end up spending on the kid). savings HAH, does anyone do that anymore lol. but god forbid, if something were to happen that was not covered by auto, home, or medical insurance, we would be screwed.

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 50 weeks ago, 9:37 PM

DEMO

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Reaper- Let me clarify

I am not saying having debt makes you anything. I am questioning a mentality of judgmentalism on a materialistic platform. I get that way becuase I work with a bunch a liberals which judge people only with their own value system, while preaching tolerance.
My hunting is a problem. My guns are a problem. But I am forced to accept someone elses culture. Its the plastic/fakeness of the mentality.

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5 years 50 weeks ago, 10:10 AM

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Fore mentioned... check em out http://www.gunslot.com/pictures/1000-words

The time is coming when those who kill you will think they are offering service to God. Jesus - (John 16.2) A penny saved is a government oversight.
5 years 50 weeks ago, 10:46 AM

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credit

coldfront and Reaper,
I am with you. I am not fortunate enough to have a trust fund. I feel your pain with 2 mortgages, 1 truck payment (one payment left though!!) and manageable credit cards. It is actually smarter to use other peoples money the way we are. The fault of the consumer is when we use too much of other peoples money that we can not "pay"' it back with collateral or cash. It is the latter that has gotten U.S.A. and the world into a "credit crisis". The note was due and we had not way to pay it. I agree with Demo that elitism bothers me, but most of us on this website have offered elitism at sometime or another. The materialsm part I disagree with for the reasons stated earlier. I actually feel sorry for someone that thinks they are better than their peers. It shows their lack of humanity. I have lived a short life compared to thers, but I still manage to learn something everyday, and most of the time it is from another human being.

clint

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin & Hobbes)
5 years 50 weeks ago, 12:11 PM

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I see it differently

Don't I always? The elitist, materialistic view is most often ascribed to the conservatives. Remember the dinner where G-dub was speaking when he said something to the effect of "Most people call you the elite, I call you my base"? The rich lib stereotype is the one in which the rich old guy gives to chrity and opens boys' homes and takes part in all sorts of social feel good programs, where the rich conservative stereotype is the one in which the rich old guy sits around in his overstuffed leather chair drinking expensive scotch ofter a day out bird hunting with the boys. The lib stereotype is the "rags to riches" story where the conservative stereotype is the "silver spoon". The funny thing is, I bet conservatives see the rich libs just like libs see the rich conservatives. DAMN THE MAN!!!

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 50 weeks ago, 1:00 PM

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It's not a Liberal vs Conservative thing in the political sense because both libs and those who call themselves conservative can find themselves in the same situation. I am conservative about money, but that doesn't automatically make me a "Conservative" politically. It's more of a grasshopper vs. an ant thing. If you are incapable of assessing your financial situation and living accordingly, it's your own damn fault. And this includes an analysis of your job prospects and its permanency. It also means things like foregoing that so-called 'good job' to struggle through an education that will get you a better job later. When I was younger I had several older friends who were bricklayers. They used to laugh that the young engineer on the job got a smaller paycheck than they did. I wonder if twenty years later when they compared salaries, they would still be laughing.

A grasshopper lives for instant gratification and doesn't think about the future. An ant stores food for the winter. How one can produce the other has to be cultural rather than personal. I am an ant; my son is a grasshopper. When I bought my last house my spousal unit and I decided we would buy no more than what one of us alone could pay for. In other words, if either of us became incapacitated or lost a job, or died, the other would not be strapped for the monthly payment. And for that matter, we can pay it off any time. It's just that with a low interest rate, tax deductions, etc. it's not always cost-effective to do so. The house has doubled in value, and recently it's down a bit from its high. I don't care because I don't want to move. Would I like to live on that lake? Sure! But I do not want to go into debt to do it.

My son works commercial construction. He makes a lot more than I ever did, but he's clearly a grasshopper. He wanted to live on the lake so bad that he took advantage of the run up in price of his own house, mortgaged it for a down payment on a million dollar house on the lake. When prices kept on escalating he re-financed for a million dollar loan, took the money and bought a $100K boat, granite counter tops, etc. Prices have tumbled on the lake and given what he has done to the house I doubt if he could get $600K for it. He's underwater on his loan, and if he loses his job....he's dead meat. If he'd stayed in the old house, which was perfectly adequate, given his salary, he would have had a bank account and retained his flexibility. But he has no flexibility now and it would be very easy for him to lose that house. He doesn't know I know. Deeds are public and I looked it up.

The only thing I can figure out that caused this is that my son grew up in relative affluence. He did not want for anything and the family never really struggled financially. He never really learned the value of money. On the other hand, I grew up borderline. My father was frequently out of work, and we often struggled to put food on the table. Many times my mother made coffee cake for our dinner. A penny or a nickel to me as a kid was precious. I still have that attitude; he doesn't.

I would be careful about accusing people of flaunting their wealth. If they do, they should be called to account, but often it's envy talking here. People who have less want more, and here's where socialism rears its ugly head. A Conservative would see that situation and try to better his own condition through hard work. A Liberal would say, 'let's redistribute the wealth and give it to those with less, even though they have not earned it.' People can 'play poor' as easily as they can 'play rich' and as far as I'm concerned, that's just as bad. If ou take away the incentive to do well, then people will begin o say, 'Why bother; they'll just take it away from me anyway.' so society declines. Have you been to Great Britain lately? It's sad. They took away all the money from the rich, so now no one is--and neither is the country.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
5 years 50 weeks ago, 2:56 PM

clintlebo

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Schuyler,
I appreciate your metaphor, very nice indeed. I wonder if any one has done the calculus required to see if the money invested by the engineers does in fact eclipse that of the bricklayers, intrest included of course.

clint

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5 years 50 weeks ago, 4:29 PM

Schuyler

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clintlebo wrote:
I appreciate your metaphor, very nice indeed. I wonder if any one has done the calculus required to see if the money invested by the engineers does in fact eclipse that of the bricklayers, intrest included of course.

I think it would be very difficult and time consuming to get the figures straight, but you may be referring to the idea that there is a school of thought suggesting it's not worth it to forego several years of income and incur tuition and expenses to get yourself a profession that pays more. My bricklayer friends were pretty smart dudes, and they may have beaten the odds, but as a practical matter, a civil engineer is in a lot better position to make serious money more steadily over time. The average CivilE salary is about $90K. The average bricklayer makes $43K. Isn't that 4-5 years to catch up? I think so. Of course, if you spent the tuition on a B.A. in English or anthropology, the idea may be more accurate. (But if you did that, you're a grasshopper!)

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
5 years 50 weeks ago, 10:32 PM

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The big difference is that the conservative elitists worked for the money that they have and liberals got it from a trust fund. The main difference in politics between Reps and Dems is the Republicans want smaller government and lower taxes on the wealthy and the Democrats want bigger government and higher taxes on the wealthy, but their definition of wealthy is way different. The Liberals definition of wealthy is someone who earns a high yearly income, not their net worth, but how much they make. The conservatives definition of wealthy is how much that person is worth...savings, assets, income, holdings and so on. Bank accounts, stock holdings, IRA's, CD's and all of the other things that Libs stick their trust fund money into are, for the most part, non-taxable. This is why they want to tax the income of the working man who is doing well, because they know that it will not apply to them, since they don't contribute anything to the economy because they don't have an income. The Republicans want the money to go back into the system to keep the economy working and the returns getting larger. The Libs want to hoard their stash and not share it with anyone. They want all of little guys like us to share OUR stuff, but not any of theirs.

Go ahead punk, Make My Day!
5 years 50 weeks ago, 10:53 PM

DEMO

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Thank You

That completed my thought. I can sleep now

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do
5 years 50 weeks ago, 10:58 PM

LLE

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all the Banks [interest], Stocks [appreciation], IRA's[appreciation proceeds], and CD institutions[interest] that will allow me to pay NO TAXES upon being in constructive receipt of monetary gains from them.
It might be a Liberal conspiracy to take advantage of things like that, but by damned, a conspirator I will be!! LMBFAO

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
5 years 50 weeks ago, 11:27 PM

BluesHarp

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from your holdings, that is not the same as paying taxes on your entire income. Say a man earns one million dollars while working his ass off at a job and another man is given a trust fund of one million dollars. The man that earned the money is going to pay a butt load more taxes because he didn't have the loopholes that the trust fund baby has. The trust fund baby, after all is said and done, will only pay taxes on the interest earned. Interest on mutual funds, savings accounts, CD's, IRA's and the like, is relatively low. Therefore, he pays less taxes than the working man. It is like winning the lottery. You only pay taxes on the winnings once. It is the same as with a trust fund. You only pay taxes on the money once. The guy that earns more the next year gets a fresh batch of taxes on his income while the trust fund baby is only paying taxes on his meager income from interest earned. He is still worth a million, he just didn't pay any taxes on it.

Go ahead punk, Make My Day!
5 years 50 weeks ago, 11:08 PM

BluesHarp

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Lieutenant General
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of the line. The only difference is how they got what they have got. The man that EARNED the money is proud of what he had been able to achieve and provide for his family. The man that was given his money is showing out to get the attention that he so desperately needs to justify the emptiness that he feels by not earning the money. He may be rich, but he is still worthless, and at the end of the day, it still hurts to know that you are worthless.

Go ahead punk, Make My Day!
5 years 50 weeks ago, 11:16 PM

LLE

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I think you somehow missed the mark.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
5 years 50 weeks ago, 11:38 PM

BluesHarp

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LLE

Perhaps you are right. I may have missed the point.

Go ahead punk, Make My Day!
5 years 49 weeks ago, 12:59 PM

Jane

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Jan 2009

As a person who would be called one of those damn, dirty "libs", let me provide a bit of outside perspective.

You calling blue staters a bunch of elitist, tit jobbing, BMW driving trust fund babies is as true as me calling red staters a bunch of intolerant, uneducated hicks that are so backwards that they can barely function in society outside of the south.

Meaning that its true if I look for what I consider to be the lowest common denominator and ignore anyone who dosen't fit that description.

I did like the part about the wealth that being a "lib" gives someone.. I don't know where my trust find, tax exemption, and hatred of "working class" people went, but I'll do it after I get some fresh tits and drive around in my imported car looking at those dirty poor people.

( That last part was a joke. )

5 years 49 weeks ago, 1:19 PM

samD

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Jane

May I ask your gender and location as in state? Your name is sort of gender specific, but it is hard to tell the players without a score card. You have made some sound arguments and reasoning. We are not all Ogres or Right Wing Looneys. I am a registered independent. Socialists scare the hell out of me, because Socialism has never worked. And Communists are just Socialists in a hurry. Don't you take some shit from your uber liberal friends re: your guns? Or do you keep them locked up in a closet?

5 years 49 weeks ago, 1:09 PM

samD

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is the "lunatic fringe" be it left or right. Let us just agree that the politicians laugh their asses off at us sheep who keep sending them our hard earned money. I hate the way we are used and abused. The Pols get us into a pissing contest about abortion, taxes, gun control ad naseuum. They then do what they want with our money and that gives them this euphoria of POWER.
Only one thing will cure this, Absolute Term Limits. 2 terms period. No government pensions, let them add to the Social Security mess that they have created. We are all Americans being fleeced by the same 475 +/- Politicons and Power Brokers. Would you agree or disagree?

5 years 49 weeks ago, 1:43 PM

Jane

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samD

I fully agree. I think the current political system is as real as professional wrestling. Its primary focus seems to be turning rational people into lemmings. They make you afraid of the "terrorists", they make you unwilling to work with your fellow man because their "red" or "blue", they make you believe your enemies are everywhere, and they do all of this so that your too busy squabbling with your fellow citizens to see the bigger picture.

5 years 49 weeks ago, 1:49 PM

samD

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we can do about it? I would like to hear your ideas, if good I will name you Vice President of the New Republica of Real American Citizens. My made up country...

5 years 49 weeks ago, 2:15 PM

Jane

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samD

SamD, I'll be Vice President so long as I don't have to say "You Betcha".

The biggest problem is that the people who are continuing the work of the puppet masters don't know their doing it. Its not as though I could hop on a train, go to Redding and start picking off government officials. I have a good deal of empathy, and I cannot in good conscience kill men and women for playing their unknowing role. Working up the foodchain is an equally tricky task, simply because our enemy is a hydra.

You kill one Vanderbilt, Rothschild, Rockefeller.. But their ideas, and more importantly their wealth, does not go away. Its simply slid down a generation and continued. Short of killing the puppet masters and their entire bloodlines, force will not solve this problem. As romantic an image as it is to imagine the Patriots standing firm with tacti-cool AR-15s and Saiga's in hand, such imagery is best left for fiction and our own imaginations.

So, what is to be done?

Awareness. The "power" they have is based on the vast majority of our nation living under the fog they present. The control over information and even thought is astounding. State and even national lesson plans prevent information other then what we "need" to know from entering our collective awareness, television feeds us information to justify our understanding of the world, radio broadcasts require you to be approved, licensed, and it can be revoked for "profane" material.

So how does one fight this beast? By making a collective noise that is too loud to drown with party politics, too strong to be divided by the social boundaries that were drawn by the puppeteers, and too compelling to be ignored by people who simply wish to live a safe, peaceful existence.

However, that time is not here yet. I believe that I will see it within my lifetime, and that growing sense of relaxation among those tyrants is going to be their downfall. Eventually they will do something so grievous, so morally unacceptable, and so counter to the ideals of our nation that it will kick the people in the ass and wake them up.

Or, less hopefully, none of that will happen and we'll continue on as we have for the last hundred years.

Ouch, I didn't think that would be quite so long.

5 years 49 weeks ago, 1:19 PM

runawaygun762

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Libs are still morons

Here's a thought. Leave me alone. Liberals seem to love telling people how to live. Get rid of your guns, stop driving gas guzzlers, accept muslims as equals, get along with everybody, don't smoke in public. Conservatives don't do these things. Leave us alone. If you don't like drinking in a smoky bar, don't patronize it. If you don't want a gun in the house, don't buy one. If you don't like gas guzzlers, ride a bike. If you think meat is murder, eat more lettuce. Leave us alone. Try using logic and not emotion. If you prefer knee-jerk reactions to the news and emotional responses to bad things, fine. Keep the crap out of congress, though. We don't have to do anything for the Spotted Owl. Nature has made more species of animals extinct than humans ever will. Nature puts more CO2 in the atmosphere from evaporation over the oceans than humans ever will with our emissions and canned keyboard cleaner. No, we can't all get along, nor should we have to. Forcing us to get along will only cause conflict. Leave us alone. And for god sake, try a debate every once in a while, and leave the damned marches to the military.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 49 weeks ago, 1:23 PM

samD

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Tolerance. We just need a middle ground and we all could then fight government runaway spending and unjust laws. As long as we both argue, nothing will happen good for us the average citizen.

5 years 49 weeks ago, 1:37 PM

runawaygun762

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I agree, samD

But the comment stands. They are the ones primarily responsible for runaway spending with their ridiculous social programs. Get rid of welfare and social security now. Allow the line-item veto by the president to stop wasteful pork barrel spending, limit congress to a strict budget and force them to sit in front of a panel of their constituents to explain why they need more money just like they do to oil or auto or bank execs who mismanage their funds. Get rid of income tax and go to a national sales tax so criminals and foreign people who want to buy American products will pay taxes. No more tax shelters, no more skirting the tax code if you're wealthy enough, offshore accounts do no good, and the IRS can be trimmed to a fraction of the waste it is now. As for unjust laws, well, both sides are guilty of that. The USA Patriot act should be repealed, as should the NFA 34. Government regulation of industry should be stopped entirely. If a meat company packages rotten beef, they go under because people boycott them. The level of commnication we enjoy today would easily allow that. There are, of course, many other things which should be stopped and reversed, but my quota is fast approaching and I have to check the perimeter for black or mexican intrusion like a good right-winger. The last sentence was a joke. I love black people.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 49 weeks ago, 2:21 PM

samD

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is mostly a left wing based monopoly? Why are teachers allowed and coerced to teach a left wing agenda? Is Hollywood mostly left winged Liberals? Is it a good thing that all things media, scholastic and entertainment be so left wing loaded?

5 years 49 weeks ago, 2:27 PM

Schuyler

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You compare taxes on $1 million earned versus a $1 million trust fund that earns interest and claim that the latter has much fewer taxes to pay. However, the $1 million in trust is tax paid. Someone already paid taxes on it, likely a parent or other relative who then willed the money to the 'trust fund baby' and, if the amount were sufficiently high, paid an additional inheritance tax on the money. This year the inheritance tax is 45% of the amount over $3.5 million, but this is a temporay Bush-instigated lower rate that will 'sunset' in 2011. Watch for the Dems to ensure the tax rate goes up and the exempt amount goes down. In other words, for this million dollar chunk, more taxes have been paid on it than the person who earned his million dollar chunk outright. So given the inheritance tax's likely applicability, it is not true that the trust fund million dollar chunk has been taxed less; it has been taxed more. So your basic premis is faulty because it is based on erroneous information.

Subsequent earnings off the capital amount are taxed the same, so CD's and 'interest' are taxed at the full rate applicable. Capital gains, of course, enjoys a lower rate, but that assumes you are gambling in stocks. The lower rate is ostensibly to spur investment of capital, but the fact is you take a risk in so doing, therefore you are rewarded more, if you guessed correctly. Watch the Dems change this as well.

Now consider this issue from the view of the earner, the person who earned his million dollar pile verus the one who inherited it. As the earner of this million dollars, do you believe you have the right to will it to your children (or to whomever you wish)? Bear in mind that you have ALREADY paid tax on this money, and that you EARNED it, which is the big issue here, and that it probably will be subject to an inheritance tax at both the state and federal levels. This is your estate that you built up through hard work all your life. Do you have the right to leave it to your children, or should it be taken away from you and given to the government?

I have worked in a liberal profession all my life, a legacy that has taken me as long to shake off. In all that time I know of only one person who I would say benefited from a large inheritance--just one. And she continues to work in her profession well past the time she could officially retire. Now it is possible that my experience is atypical, but I suspect the vast majority of liberals are not the beneficiaries of trust funds nor do they, as a whole, drive expensive foreign cars. I drive an expensive foreign car, but I'm a registered Republican.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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