Forums / Gun Discussion / Lots of help needed from you experienced ones: Home defense Gun

3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:23 PM

vMIKEo

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Hello everyone. Haha my name is mike. Im 19years old and need some advice from you older guys out there who obviously have more experience than me! =)

So im moving into an apartment and im looking for a good weapon for self defense. I live in an area where people use meth and im just worried that someone might get a dumb idea to break into my apartment and harm me or steal from me. I want something to defend myself with.

My problem is that im not 21 so i cant have a pistol. I need some type of SMG or AR. Heres details and maybe you guys can post lots of feedback and help me:

-i live in PA
-Im 19
-caliber has to be common because i might plink a little bit with the gun and dont want expensive ammo
-Gotta be legal in PA
- my ideal price range is under $600
- i dont want the 9mm Hi-Point lol

I know this is a long post but hopefully someone can help me out! =)

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3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:41 PM

john kelley

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Not old (actually younger than you) but if you want a good home defense rifle with cheap ammo check this kel tec out http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/rifles/sub-2000/&source=mog&ved=0C...

From time to time, the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots. --Thomas Jefferson--
3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:43 PM

john kelley

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It posted wrong link I meant to post link to kel tec sub 2000 just Google it lol

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3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:46 PM

john kelley

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http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/rifles/sub-2000/ try this

From time to time, the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots. --Thomas Jefferson--
3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:48 PM

CharlesW

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Forget a rifle in an apartment unless
you don't care how many neighbors
you wipe out.
Get yourself a Mossy 500 shotty
about $250.00

Welcome to GUNSLOT

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
3 years 38 weeks ago, 4:12 PM

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MOSSBERG

CharlesW wrote:
Forget a rifle in an apartment unless
you don't care how many neighbors
you wipe out.
Get yourself a Mossy 500 shotty
about $250.00

Welcome to GUNSLOT

I absolutely agree! Get a short pump-action "riot" gun. The Mossberg is a great choice. You can get them from a pawn shop between 200 and 500 depending. And, you can hunt with it! And shoot skeet, and birds, and rabbits, and squirrels and... LOL
Welcome to GunsLot!

"Arms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property...Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding citizen deprived of the use of them."
3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:51 PM

john kelley

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Idk about plinkin with a shottie lol

From time to time, the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots. --Thomas Jefferson--
3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:53 PM

CharlesW

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not plinking.
With the change saved buy a 22 rifle
for plinking

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:54 PM

vMIKEo

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to john and charles

john: i was looking at that gun lol. Ill keep that one in mind as i can target shoot with it as well =)

Charles: i was hoping to stay away from shotguns, im not really quite as comfortable with them as an AR or SMG. and thanks for the welcome =)

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3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:55 PM

john kelley

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Not starting any thing read the whole post

From time to time, the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots. --Thomas Jefferson--
3 years 39 weeks ago, 12:01 AM

CharlesW

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john got your point

Hard to have just one gun for everything.
That's like having one wrench for your car.
But seriously a rifle in an apartment is asking
for trouble in every way.

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:58 PM

CharlesW

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vMikeo your welcome

To each his own.
Shotguns are the way to go for defense.
Take up skeet shooting and have a ball.

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
3 years 39 weeks ago, 9:33 PM

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agreed, especially in an apartment complex or in a home with children or other in nearby bedrooms. Rifle cartridges, even hollow-points, will blow right through most inside walls without even slowing down. I'd rather not be responsible for trying to defend my self and killing a neighbor in the same night.

"...one is allowed to resist against the unjust aggressor to one's life [...] even 'til the aggressor’s death. In fact, this act is aimed at preserving one’s life and to make the aggressor powerless. Thus, it is a good act" - Thomas Aquinas
3 years 39 weeks ago, 12:00 AM

vMIKEo

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=P

im hopinh for more of something like an SMG or something compact to be honest. I dont have the longest arms in the world so i want something small and comfortable. its just hard for me to find anything lol.

i like guns like the G36c and a small M4 Carbine. i dont know. i just cant find anything on the internet so i figured id ask you guys

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3 years 39 weeks ago, 12:04 AM

CharlesW

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I have short arms and a youth model Mossy
fits me real good.
Stock lengths can always be adjusted also

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
3 years 39 weeks ago, 12:05 AM

vMIKEo

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BTW charles

i have the whole second floor as an apartment. Im not really worried about that lol.

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3 years 39 weeks ago, 12:06 AM

vMIKEo

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SMGs

do you guys know any good SMGs i could get for under $600?

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3 years 39 weeks ago, 12:13 AM

CharlesW

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I like my lever actions.
I can't afford ammo for smg.
man I would shoot 500 rounds every time
I went outside
I shoot in my back yard

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
3 years 39 weeks ago, 12:40 AM

Ishootdaily

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SMG?

Sub Machine Gun....

for under $600.00?

for a home defense weapon?

mmmmm

no

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 39 weeks ago, 12:16 AM

john kelley

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Check out a intratec tec 9 you can probably find one for under 6 ( never done enough research to know if there available semi auto

From time to time, the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots. --Thomas Jefferson--
3 years 39 weeks ago, 12:20 AM

john kelley

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Looked it up and you sure can

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3 years 39 weeks ago, 12:25 AM

john kelley

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Yea your right cw oh just remembered bird shot is available for 9 mm don't know how effective or well it cycles

From time to time, the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots. --Thomas Jefferson--
3 years 39 weeks ago, 12:35 AM

CharlesW

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will kill a snake at 10 feet.
would probably piss off a dopehead
breaking in on you.
I wouldn't want to try them in a simi 9mm

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3 years 39 weeks ago, 12:38 AM

Ishootdaily

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Is consistently considered the Shotgun hands down. You just point it and shoot... You can also add a mount and put a tactical light, red dot, laser, or what have you....

Plinking, is not the same thing and in an apartment your looking at the liability or an actual Bullet fully penetrating a wall and wounding of killing your neighbor or someone you do not intend to harm.

If it is a handgun your looking for, them make sure to use a Frangible Ammo of some sort.....

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 39 weeks ago, 12:40 AM

vMIKEo

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ahh

tec 9 are illegal in most states from some kind of ban. and apparently they are super heavy with poor contstruction. Man i cant wait until im 21 because i already know what im getting lmao.

Colt .45 LW

in the meantime im gonna go to bed since i still cant figure out something. Maybe a baby AK47 or something lol

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3 years 39 weeks ago, 12:46 AM

CharlesW

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vMikeo have fun

Later guy

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3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:34 AM

john kelley

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Yea I read something bout ban but didn't even think about it lol

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3 years 39 weeks ago, 12:09 PM

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I am with CharlesW buy a shotgun for home defence and something else for plinking. You say you live in an upstairs apartment?What about your downstairs neighbors when you get trigger happy with you SMG when someone breaks in. At 19 first thing get some gun lessons and take some classes on self defence. John last thing this guy needs is someone fanning his little flame on looking like a complex rambo shooting his neighbor with a poor choice of guns.

“If ever time should come,when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of it's experienced Patriots to prevent it's ruin."Samuel Adams
3 years 39 weeks ago, 12:16 PM

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Lol

john: yeah i probably dont want to break the law lol

hillbilly77: Im actually quite a shooter, ive shot many guns and i took 2classes for self defense last year in college. Im not looking to just hold the trigger down and aim in the direction of the threat. Clear precise shots in the chest is what im looking for and i need a gun thatll put someone down with 3 to the chest. i have a 20gauge shotgun but its single action so thats not ideal, plus i think itd lack the power to put someone down in one shot. I dont know, i havent shot too many people =P

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3 years 39 weeks ago, 1:49 PM

CharlesW

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vMikeo Good Day Sir

Looks like you have your mind made up
on a rifle.

We have all told you it's not a good idea.
Good luck with it. I hope you never have
to use it inside your home.

Hands down a shotty makes the best and
safest home defense weapon.

Like I said last night having one gun for all
purposes is like having one wrench for
your car.

Best wishes hope everything goes well

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
3 years 39 weeks ago, 12:24 PM

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Will knock someone clear on their ass.You ask anyone worth their opinion and they will tell you shotguns and the best home defence gun you can use.Low light situations the 00 isnt going to miss in your apartment, so unless you have night vision optics on your night stand go with your 20 gauge and leave the smg in the gun cabinet.

“If ever time should come,when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of it's experienced Patriots to prevent it's ruin."Samuel Adams
3 years 39 weeks ago, 1:44 PM

CharlesW

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You will have to go to a 12ga for that.
I have #3 Buck in my 20 which is a
very good load inside.

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
3 years 39 weeks ago, 4:17 PM

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I have never owned a 20 gauge so I am not completely sure what loads you can get for it. I was started on 12 gauge and figured why sissy it up and buy something smaller.I tip my hat and admit I was wrong.But I was just stating the 20 gauge would be effective in a home defence situation.

“If ever time should come,when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of it's experienced Patriots to prevent it's ruin."Samuel Adams
3 years 39 weeks ago, 12:29 PM

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I do agree with shotguns for hd but I just answered his question guys take it easy

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3 years 39 weeks ago, 3:38 PM

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notes

1. Yes, any shotgun WILL miss if you don't use the sights or don't aim, especially on a live target in low light. At typical room distances, any useful load (#4 or higher buckshot, or slugs) will not spread wide enough to make anyone (or any gun) miss-proof. If it does then it is not a good choice for defensive use. Even #8 birdshot commonly runs less than 10" spread at 20 feet from 18-20" barrel I/C/M barrels.

2. 20ga absolutlely has power to spare on humans, esp, at close range using slugs or buckshot. Better than any pistol round, including the .45LC, or a 3-rd burst from any commonly available SMG.

3. An SMG or short-barreled rifle (full auto/16" barrel or less) requires about $250-$350 and 3 months of ATF hoop-jumping to own, assuming your state and local jurisdictions approve/allow its possession. How much formal training have you had with submachineguns, the M4, etc.? If the answer is none or very little, then its a lousy choice for home defense.

4. You will not acquire a legal or useful AR15-pattern weapon or SMG through any legal means. It is possible you'd find a schmuck who would sell a $800-10,000 weapon for less than $600, but I wouldn't count on it. Civilian legal ARs start out around $800; legal subguns start around $3,000.00 plus fees/taxes.

5. A pump-action shotgun in 12ga or 20ga ($200-$350), adequate supply of training and defensive ammo ($100), and 4-8hrs of professional training ($100-300) can be had for less than your target price. The training portion of that should go a long way towards your efficient use of the weapon and should begin to eliminate any uncertainty you have about the shotgun for home defense.

3 years 39 weeks ago, 4:18 PM

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hopefully he will listen. for the home or shop or any dwellig with neighbors shoot guns are the only way to go. hope i'm not his neighbor, maybe he should be glad i'm not his neighbor. i will shoot back!!! might ought to think of that also. and i would place a good sized bet that all these experienced gun toters with all those different makes and cal. from cheap to expensive hand guns have a shotgun at the ready. first line of defence. i do.

just another day in paradise
3 years 39 weeks ago, 9:53 PM

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Home defense gun

Go with the shotty. Apartment?
#6 birdshot will take care of anything you can see and keep over penetration of walls to a "liveable" measure.
20 ga is what my youngest will have when she goes off to college.
I could live another 30 years and never pick up another shotgun and still be comfortable and proficient with one on a moments notice.
Of course, I've spent a major amount of time chasing game birds with one for the last 30 years. Llike riding a bicycle".

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3 years 39 weeks ago, 10:12 PM

CharlesW

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might find a shotty to be fun

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3 years 39 weeks ago, 10:37 PM

vMIKEo

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thanks all!

ok so my 20gauge can be used for something other than rabbit hunting?! lol

So the downside is that is an H&R single action. Should i just find some nice ammo and hope my first shot is all i need? or do i look for a pump action?

Charles can you tell me more about the mossberg?

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3 years 39 weeks ago, 10:55 PM

CharlesW

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I would get a shell holder for the stock.

I have a Mossberg 500 youth model because
it has a shorter stock and my wife can shoot it
also. Very fine pump shotty for the money $235.00

With the change from your $600.00 you can get a
fine 22 to plink with or maybe find a used AR to your
liking.

One gun just dosen't cut it for me. I have 8
and a cannon ( but the cannon is a different story)

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
3 years 39 weeks ago, 10:59 PM

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Had a friend give me a Carbide Cannon a couple of months ago. Not sure what the hell to do with it.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:13 PM

CharlesW

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I'm building a black powder cannon.
I wanted a bowlingball cannon but haven't
found the right barrel yet. Mine has a 6 3/8 in
bore and I will make my own projectiles.

I love cannon shoot offs.

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:17 PM

john kelley

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I saw a show called pawn stars some guy brought in a homemade mortar that fired bowling balls I think he may have used some sort of military grade scuba tank for the barrel or combustion chamber not sure though

From time to time, the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots. --Thomas Jefferson--
3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:22 PM

CharlesW

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john more than likely

He used an oxygen cylinder for a torch.

They are one piece steel with a 2,000 lb
psi test.

google it, there are several videos up
of them being fired

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:29 PM

vMIKEo

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Ok charles what gauge is the mossy? or are their different ones? imma go check google real quick and look at some =)

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3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:33 PM

CharlesW

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vMikeo I have a 20ga

I can't handle a 12 anymore and a 20ga
is no slouch. I do a lot of skeet shooting
with it and have no complaints at all.

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:33 PM

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410
28
20
16
12

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:30 PM

john kelley

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There all crazy I don't wanna be within 100 miles of somethin like that if it went wrong

From time to time, the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots. --Thomas Jefferson--
3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:33 PM

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What kind of propellant would be used with one maybe black powder?

From time to time, the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots. --Thomas Jefferson--
3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:34 PM

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Black Powder

john kelley wrote:
What kind of propellant would be used with one maybe black powder?

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:35 PM

vMIKEo

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already have a 20

i already have a 20 so i might as well get the 12 so i can use it if i decide to turkey hunt.. now i just need to learn to navigate their website =P

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3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:37 PM

Ishootdaily

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Take a look here....

www.budsgunshop.com

The pricing is hard to beat...

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:35 PM

CharlesW

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john yep we're crazy

but it sure is fun.
You can buy a mortar that shoots golf balls
on the net for about $100.00 if you like.
I'll pull a pic of one up.

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:36 PM

Ishootdaily

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I think I'll donate it to the Boy Scouts for the holiday Jamborees...

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:44 PM

CharlesW

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out over the ocean ?
It dosen't do anything but make noise.
I don't remember a carbide firing a projectile.

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
3 years 39 weeks ago, 12:27 AM

Ishootdaily

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No projectiles, Big Bang is all but Noise Ordinance would be a bitch...

Though, I wonder if one of the Junior Yacht Clubs could use it... have to check

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:38 PM

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Sep 2010
Location:
felicity , oh, United States

How many grains to push that big sob I only use 80 out of my 50 cal cva to shoot a 245 grn power belt for hunting

From time to time, the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots. --Thomas Jefferson--
3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:41 PM

CharlesW

CharlesW's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
4860
Join Date:
Dec 2009
Location:
Live in the wilderness, Republic of Texas, United States

dry measure not weight.
800 to 1000 yard range

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:42 PM

john kelley

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Rank:
Major General
Points:
376
Join Date:
Sep 2010
Location:
felicity , oh, United States

Yea definitely post some I once had a small cannon that shot bb's or pellets it was cool as hell lost it though and who knows someday I could get into that I just love the smell of black powder in the air for some odd reason

From time to time, the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots. --Thomas Jefferson--
3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:43 PM

Ishootdaily

Ishootdaily's picture

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General
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4375
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Feb 2009
Location:
Saint Petersburg, Florida, United States
Charles

ever consider Pumkin Chunking?

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:45 PM

john kelley

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Rank:
Major General
Points:
376
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Sep 2010
Location:
felicity , oh, United States

that's a pretty pennie to shoot those

From time to time, the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots. --Thomas Jefferson--
3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:48 PM

john kelley

john kelley's picture

Rank:
Major General
Points:
376
Join Date:
Sep 2010
Location:
felicity , oh, United States

Can you shoot the bowling ball twice?

From time to time, the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots. --Thomas Jefferson--
3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:52 PM

CharlesW

CharlesW's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
4860
Join Date:
Dec 2009
Location:
Live in the wilderness, Republic of Texas, United States

shoot it again.
In Nm and Az they have shoot offs in the desert
shooting at junk cars. Ofcourse they have miles
of nothing where they can shoot

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
3 years 39 weeks ago, 11:57 PM

john kelley

john kelley's picture

Rank:
Major General
Points:
376
Join Date:
Sep 2010
Location:
felicity , oh, United States

I'd love to go watch some people shooting them but I don't think there's anywhere in southern Ohio alteast nowhere like that lol

From time to time, the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots. --Thomas Jefferson--
3 years 39 weeks ago, 12:20 AM

CharlesW

CharlesW's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
4860
Join Date:
Dec 2009
Location:
Live in the wilderness, Republic of Texas, United States

see what we come up with

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
3 years 39 weeks ago, 12:28 AM

john kelley

john kelley's picture

Rank:
Major General
Points:
376
Join Date:
Sep 2010
Location:
felicity , oh, United States

Ok thanks cw I'd like to go to a show sometime

From time to time, the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots. --Thomas Jefferson--
3 years 38 weeks ago, 9:07 AM

runawaygun762

runawaygun762's picture

Rank:
Vice President
Points:
8929
Join Date:
Nov 2008
Location:
Richland, MO, United States

It's a pain compliance tool. You WILL NOT get reliable incapacitation using bird loads, even from the 12 gauge. Unless the bird load is #4 Turkey loads. You shoot someone with those itty bitty pellets, and all you're doing is testing their resolve. All but the most dedicated invaders will leave as quickly as they can, but you really don't want to take the chance of having that doped-up hardass take your gun away and ram it up your butt. Go with a 20 or 12 gauge, load up with some reduced-recoil 00 Buck loads, and have a nice day.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.

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