Forums / Gun Discussion / Nice Software for Your Gun Inventory Record

4 years 42 weeks ago, 2:11 PM

LLE

LLE's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3167
Join Date:
Jul 2008
Location:
United States

Every once in a while, I receive an email from "Guns & Patriots", and they are offering some fine inventory software for free. Out of curiousity, I downloaded the free version, which allows you to try it for up to ten items, and I think it is very well designed. If you like it, and want more capability, their full software suite is $39.99. This an excellent way to organize all of your gun and accessories equipment in one place and then even back up the file in case of any insurable loss.
Thought y'all would be interested in taking a look.

THIS IS AN UNCOMPENSATED, PURELY PERSONAL RECOMMENDATION!!!!!!

See: < [email protected]>

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
4 years 42 weeks ago, 5:39 PM

clintlebo

clintlebo's picture


Rank:
Lieutenant General
Points:
2311
Join Date:
Aug 2008
Location:
land, of confusion, United States

LLE,
I have not been to the website, nor have I researched this program, so forgive me of my ignorance. Do you use a computer not hooked up to the internet when you file your firearms digitally? Do you worry about whether or not prying eyes may learn of your weapons?

My father used to inventory his weapons and tools. He had his ledger locked in a vault with codes that he knew the cipher for.

I see no reason not to inventory, just wondering if your experiences are good and why you chose to inventory digitally.

clint

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin & Hobbes)
4 years 42 weeks ago, 6:21 PM

LLE

LLE's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3167
Join Date:
Jul 2008
Location:
United States

I think what I would do, if it is possible, would be to put the data on a USB finger storage device, and leave the enabling software on the computer, if that is possible The finger drive would be stored in the safe... Digitally, because of convenience, and a nicely structured format, plus very easy to update, add to or delete info.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
4 years 42 weeks ago, 6:27 PM

clintlebo

clintlebo's picture


Rank:
Lieutenant General
Points:
2311
Join Date:
Aug 2008
Location:
land, of confusion, United States
good idea LLE

That way you have the convenience of digital editing and the protection of the vault. I may have to look into it, but I wonder if you could use excel for the same thing and customize it how you want...

thanks for the information.

clint

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin & Hobbes)
4 years 42 weeks ago, 6:33 PM

LLE

LLE's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3167
Join Date:
Jul 2008
Location:
United States

but if you can craft your own format on it, I see no reason why it would not work.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
4 years 42 weeks ago, 6:28 PM

Ishootdaily

Ishootdaily's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
4375
Join Date:
Feb 2009
Location:
Saint Petersburg, Florida, United States

that I keep my things recorded in. For nothing more than insurance reasons and to be a little more productive in case of theft. If your firearm is recovered, you will get it back soemtimes. But is also helps keep track of what guns are out there and what ones have been taken off the streets.

You will not get your firearm back if it was used in the commission of a Felony...

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
4 years 42 weeks ago, 12:53 PM

jay sedler

jay sedler's picture

Rank:
Lieutenant General
Points:
1584
Join Date:
Oct 2009
Location:
redding, california, United States

just reading this,forgive my tardiness gunslot.personaly,call me paranoid but i wouldn't put that info on a computer that goes on the web.i would however keep it stored for insurance/theft as ids mentioned.id like to see a nationwide law protecting gun owners rights to re obtain their stolen firearms if you know and file your serial number,or have personally marked the weapon and can prove that it is your mark.each state should have to hold all confiscated weapons for a period of time,and have a list of serial numbers as well as makes/models so owners can have a fair period of time chance to get their guns back.just one of the many "if everyone did things my way" things I've thought of allot.

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
4 years 42 weeks ago, 6:32 PM

Vaquero

Vaquero's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
5504
Join Date:
Dec 2009
Location:
West Texas
excell

would work perfectly. You can insert a picture of each gun in the spreadsheet too.
I'm gonna build one. Thanks for the idea LLE and Clint.

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
4 years 42 weeks ago, 6:38 PM

LLE

LLE's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3167
Join Date:
Jul 2008
Location:
United States
Vaq--

De Nada, Se~nior

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
4 years 42 weeks ago, 6:33 PM

clintlebo

clintlebo's picture


Rank:
Lieutenant General
Points:
2311
Join Date:
Aug 2008
Location:
land, of confusion, United States
ISD

You mentioned insurance in your post. Does that mean you have the firearms on a schedule with your agent and are paying a premium on listed items?
Or better yet, how does your policy work?

clint

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin & Hobbes)
4 years 42 weeks ago, 6:41 PM

Ishootdaily

Ishootdaily's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
4375
Join Date:
Feb 2009
Location:
Saint Petersburg, Florida, United States

http://www.nraendorsedinsurance.com/splash.aspx

_edited_ wrong link before..

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
4 years 42 weeks ago, 7:11 PM

clintlebo

clintlebo's picture


Rank:
Lieutenant General
Points:
2311
Join Date:
Aug 2008
Location:
land, of confusion, United States

Thanks ISD, I signed up. NRA has some good benefits for their members.

clint

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin & Hobbes)
4 years 42 weeks ago, 7:58 PM

luckybychoice

luckybychoice's picture


Rank:
Secretary of the Treasury
Points:
6795
Join Date:
May 2009
Location:
United States
I have that as well

and you can get lots of excel templates online,not like the old days when i built them from scratch

http://www.vertex42.com/ExcelTemplates/

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
4 years 42 weeks ago, 2:42 PM

greg az

greg az's picture

Rank:
Secretary of Homeland Security
Points:
5873
Join Date:
Oct 2009
Location:
New York, NY, Ascension Island

I don't think this is acting out of paranoia, but sure not naive enough to discount that a whole host of "individuals/agencies etc." would love to know who has weapons and what they have..

I just re read that and sure sounds paranoid.. That being said my bother spent 40 years in military intel (nope.. not an oxymoron) and Gary, who was NOT given to be any sort of alarmist would occasionally share enough creditable information about intelligence gathering that i would have serious questions about any organization that would encourage any type of list of firearms..

The FFL process allows a data base of all current purchases, but there's no way of having info on the 75% (obviously approximate) of unlisted weapons.. before you guys fit me with the tin foil (triple wrapped and pleated extra strong) hat.. I don't have a problem with this.. We should expect that any Government including ours would try to assess any possible armed response of the populace..These numbers could be used in a positive light as well.. in other words, not so much paranoid as realistic.. and how my friends would you get a handle on this if you were charged with compiling a list..

I have an idea Mr/Madam Secretary.. how bout we set up some sort of "Patriotic" site, and then offer some inventory software for free. Make the site appear commercial with standard charges for joining, or soft wear, then offer a free version that allows say ten, or twelve items..

Thats one fine idea Greg.. just saying guys.. just saying.. I don't have any black vehicles parked outside, and i've never looked for "Conspiracies".. That being said anyone who thinks were not "monitored" on a regular basis is wrong.. sheesh were right wing gun lovers.. If those in charge of our security didn't monitor us there would be something seriously wrong.. Of course they know what were about..I'm sure our placement on the "danger list" is down at the bottom under "impudent"..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
4 years 42 weeks ago, 5:02 PM

daisycutter

daisycutter's picture

Rank:
General of the Army
Points:
5724
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
Arkansas

purchases.
If they call for turn in and/or confiscation the majority of gun owners will comply just like happened in other countries when "reasonable" gun laws were inacted.
My gun pictures and serial numbers are on a thumb drive in my safe deposit box at the bank.
Damn black helicopter is parked on my roof but it takes off fast when I run out and try to see it!!

iyaoyas
4 years 42 weeks ago, 5:23 PM

Ishootdaily

Ishootdaily's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
4375
Join Date:
Feb 2009
Location:
Saint Petersburg, Florida, United States
Actually...

I've a friend from England who is very adamant about the USA not giving up one inch. He says we should fight for each and everything that they attempt to do to change weaken our 2 nd amendment rights.

He told me that if the people in the UK and Australia had known exactly what was going to take place they would not have allowed it to happen. But, like the Frog in the cold water sitting in a Frying Pan on a Stove. They turned it up a little at a time and the didn't know what was going on until it was too late.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
4 years 42 weeks ago, 5:40 PM

daisycutter

daisycutter's picture

Rank:
General of the Army
Points:
5724
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
Arkansas

The only "right" that is truely secure is Freedom Of The Press, it has the loudest lobby.
Citizens will sit by and watch the rest of the constitution being eroded and not say a word.

iyaoyas
4 years 42 weeks ago, 5:51 PM

Ishootdaily

Ishootdaily's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
4375
Join Date:
Feb 2009
Location:
Saint Petersburg, Florida, United States

I do know that they are going to be allot of new felons the moment they out law firearms possession!

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
4 years 42 weeks ago, 6:06 PM

daisycutter

daisycutter's picture

Rank:
General of the Army
Points:
5724
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
Arkansas

keep the "rights" that come from God.
The govmnt is not the ultimate authority, they did not give us "rights", we had those "rights" before we had a govmnt.
The govmnt is like a school yard bully, needs it's ass kicked from time to time.

iyaoyas
4 years 42 weeks ago, 5:03 PM

daisycutter

daisycutter's picture

Rank:
General of the Army
Points:
5724
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
Arkansas

`

iyaoyas
4 years 42 weeks ago, 1:05 PM

Hellspawn72

Hellspawn72's picture

Rank:
Lieutenant Colonel
Points:
66
Join Date:
Apr 2011
Location:
St.Catharines, Ontario, Canada

As all of you may know i am Canadian and our gun laws are very strict, so much so that i keep having cops show up at my door every time i shoot my pellet gun in my backyard of the property i own and pay taxes on.The complaints come from a renter to the rear of my place. One time that they showed up they tried to give me scare by telling me if they had to come back they would take my gun away. I gave them a laugh and told them to make sure they had a warrant if that was there plan. Anyways i am off topic, I say keep any records of any wepons as far away from the internet and your computer as you can!! You want a list for insurance or such then take pics and use a pen and paper to write the info down. As our countries become over run in the government by Foreigners you bet that they will try and change things. State by State you will see it. I just read the other day that here they are trying to take away the ability to get a pardon, Why would they do this? It is easy to understand why,,they want to keep files on all that they can. Yes i am a conspiracy nut, and as much as i believe that there is no gold left in Fort Knox, I believe that if you allow them to know you have wepons and there is a record of this, then one day men in uniforms will show up and take what you own.....I am not crazy,my mother had me tested..

4 years 42 weeks ago, 8:20 PM

daisycutter

daisycutter's picture

Rank:
General of the Army
Points:
5724
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
Arkansas

near term than your Southern Brothers. Your banning and confiscation are all but complete.
We down here in the States still have a while to go before the inevitable.
Our Constitutional Right to keep and bear arms won't last. Maybe in a few years owning a pistol of any type, a firearm which fires semi-automatically and any gun which vaguely resembles a military weapon of any sort will be banned, confiscated and owner will spend a long time in prison.

Problem: There are a lot of bad guys that enjoy robbing and killing.
Solution: Violate the law by keeping a handgun for protection.

Sounds simple enough, just don't drop the soap when you're in prison.

iyaoyas
4 years 42 weeks ago, 8:30 PM

Vaquero

Vaquero's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
5504
Join Date:
Dec 2009
Location:
West Texas
QOD candidate

Hellspawn72 wrote:
.....I am not crazy,my mother had me tested..

QOD! I love it. I'm gonna use it!

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
4 years 42 weeks ago, 6:50 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

Saint J.M. Browning's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3569
Join Date:
Feb 2011
Location:
The Colony, Texas, United States
Too bad

I've lost and sold every gun I ever owned. ;)

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
4 years 42 weeks ago, 7:30 PM

Ishootdaily

Ishootdaily's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
4375
Join Date:
Feb 2009
Location:
Saint Petersburg, Florida, United States

asking for them...

They would be burying their own !!

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
4 years 42 weeks ago, 7:37 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

Saint J.M. Browning's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3569
Join Date:
Feb 2011
Location:
The Colony, Texas, United States
ISD

How you doing tonight? Yeah, I don't think big brother would trust LE to do it. This would be a job for the brown shirts. Probably ATF, or maybe they'd form a new agency for it.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
4 years 42 weeks ago, 9:25 PM

LLE

LLE's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3167
Join Date:
Jul 2008
Location:
United States

there are between 70 and 80 million adult gun owners in the USA. If there were a condition wherein the Feds were going to attempt to confiscate, BUT there was mass resistance, and the Feds attempted to arrest and incarcerate, conservatively lets say 50 million gun owner "criminals", who would be doing all of this arresting, and where would all of these criminals be detained/incarcerated?? Do you believe the military would participate in this, when the Posse Comitatus law is still on the books, let alone the second amendment? [or might they mutiny, watching their family members lives being jepardized?] Would you think that the rest of the citizenry--over 250 million--would stand by and see thair family members dragged away, without a deluge of habeus corpus actions being served? Who will be the caretakers of all of these incarcerated prisoners?? Unless you believe the fantasy about the federal complexes operated by Homeland Security, and the existence of a shadow Army, how could all of this be accomplished??

Just askin'.................................

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
4 years 42 weeks ago, 11:18 PM

daisycutter

daisycutter's picture

Rank:
General of the Army
Points:
5724
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
Arkansas

bantered about by some members of more than one president's cabinet. Can the president suspend Posse Comitatus by executive order? There must be a mechanism but it won't be needed. Too easy to go the slow but sure way. No need to get all the cops shot up.

As we all should understand the 2nd amendment is hanging by a thread, we do not have a comfortable majority on the Supreme Court. It is not necessary to take all guns away from everyone immediately to effectively wipe out our 2nd amendment right.

All they will do is ban specific handguns, rifles and shotguns, that's what they call "assault weapons", anything in .223 or 7.62X39 first I'd bet. That should be no prob, leaves us with a whole bunch of guns.

They'll probably put serious regulations on ammunition MFG's, shippers and sellers choking down the amount of ammo avail. Watch for that one, it's a precursor.

Next, all guns will have to be registered to "reduce crime and save the children".
Then comes the next wave of banned guns, certain guns which are the weapon of choice of hunters, PETA, ELF and Sierra club will love it.

Eventually we'll be given a choice, join a govmnt approved shooting club where our guns will remain at all times or sell them to the govmnt. We'll still have our guns as guaranteed by the Constitution but the govmnt will control them. Supreme Court will eventually rule that as fulfilling the guarantee of the 2nd Amend. You can "keep and bear" them at the club.

See, no need for Posse Comitatus, FEMA concentration camps or mass arrests, take us out a few at a time.
Incrementalism, works every time it's tried :<)

iyaoyas
4 years 42 weeks ago, 6:01 AM

LLE

LLE's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3167
Join Date:
Jul 2008
Location:
United States

Yes, the frog in the pot approach certainly is one way to attempt gradual arms confiscation. But I ask you this--and I am not trying to be a wise-ass-- WHO is "they"?? Do you believe "we" the 70 million+ gun owners are just going to sit on our dumb asses like frogs in the pot, while the "theys" are able to work their wills, unchallenged and unobstructed?
"We" are much smarter than that!!

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
4 years 42 weeks ago, 10:09 AM

daisycutter

daisycutter's picture

Rank:
General of the Army
Points:
5724
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
Arkansas

"They" is not simply gun control radicals. "They" are liberals, socialists, environmentalists, animal rights freaks, anti-religionists, unions, they are every constituent group the democrat party can even slightly claim. They will blindly support the govmnt that feed$ them$ with our tax dollars.

You said: "Do you believe "we" the 70 million+ gun owners are just going to sit on our dumb asses like frogs in the pot, while the "theys" are able to work their wills, unchallenged and unobstructed?"

In a word, yes. The question is, where is your bread buttered? 70 million+ people are going to have to answer that.
Are the gun owners going to stand shoulder to shoulder against the gun ban nuts who also happen to be the ones that have been shoveling out trillions of dollars since johnson's "great society"?
The prognosis is not good, sorry but reality sux.

iyaoyas
4 years 42 weeks ago, 11:18 AM

LLE

LLE's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3167
Join Date:
Jul 2008
Location:
United States

I understand how you view the "reality", but I consider the view highly pessimistic--in fact unrealistically pessimistic.
I believe a lot more than 70+ million are going to answer your question about buttered bread, when they see that what we are talking about here, is so much more than just gun rights. When and if this pattern is realized by the citizenry as changing from a cleverly insidious, to a blatant assault on all rights provided in the constitution, I believe we may very well have a second US American revolution--at first, non violently, but if necessary violently. It won't be pretty, but it probably will be surprisingly effective.

..........the words of Admiral Yamamoto keep echoing back to me

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
4 years 42 weeks ago, 11:42 AM

Saint J.M. Browning

Saint J.M. Browning's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3569
Join Date:
Feb 2011
Location:
The Colony, Texas, United States
DC and LLE

LLE, I wish I could believe that. I know a number of us would eventually say enough is enough and even if they make me look crazy, I will stand up. But I don't think most of the 70 million would. That would be the key to fighting tyranny and our founders knew it as well as the despots. Solidarity. But look what has already happened. Firearm ownership has been regulated and certain weapons have effectively been banned for common people through the NFA and GCA.
More recently, who would have thought that it would be possible to pass a gun registration act and only for 5 states by the executive branch only, circumventing congress. But it happened. And the attempt to ban importation of certain firearms because they don't have a "sporting" purpose?
How many stood against these? Some did and in at least one case, it was enough for the freedom haters to reverse course, for the time. But these are just glimpses and previews, and based on the direction I see things going, they are going to keep brainwashing the general populace and keep throwing out laws that are really just feelers or recon laws to test the waters as to how close they are. One day it will happen.
But. as I said before, I think the despots always let their greed outweigh their patience and they will overreach too quickly and there will be enough that recognize it to prevent a irreversible change and, over time, more people will realize what has happened and liberty's supporters will grow.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
4 years 42 weeks ago, 12:58 PM

daisycutter

daisycutter's picture

Rank:
General of the Army
Points:
5724
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
Arkansas
St.JMB

That was a well thought through analysis. I hope you are correct about "them" becoming overconfident and impatient. Only when they did that have we been able to stick it up their butts.
During a discussion about gun control an anti-gun liberal told me that I scared him. I am not in the least intimidating so I asked him why, he said my argument "was calm, well reasoned and logical".
Getting excited during sex is good but in politics being cool headed wins, I think :<).

iyaoyas
4 years 42 weeks ago, 12:38 PM

daisycutter

daisycutter's picture

Rank:
General of the Army
Points:
5724
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
Arkansas

LLE, your optimism is stunning, unrealistically so I may add. The blatant assault on the Catholic church by the current administration makes me question your assumption that the people will not accept disassembling the constitution piece by piece. What the obama administration is doing is an IN YOUR FACE violation of the 1st amend. Where are the pitchforks and torches?
Eminent domain, the govmnt takes property from individuals and gives to corporations, that cannot be morally or legally justified within the original intent of the law. No one is burning judges in effigy, why?
The federal judiciary nullifying results of elections in favor of people who practice sexual identity politics. No outrage? The homos had all the protections under the law all the rest of us had but they have additional protections added in violation of the intent of the 14th amend. I don't see any significant outcry.
The list of affronts to the constitution go on and on but there are no street protests, where are the devout 2nd amend supporters? Shouldn't they be marching in the streets to help save the 1st amend? If you don't fight for someone else's rights why should they fight for yours?

I believe you may be looking at this in the narrow scope of an excitable gun owner feeding on the anxiety of your fellow gun owners.
In the real world there are not enough people who share our interest in the 2nd amend. or care enough about anyone else's particular constitutional crises.
Obviously, our guns are more than just a hobby, they are insurance that the entire constitution remain in effect but it's going to take more than just a handful of us, everyone who is affected by ANY violation of the constitution by the govmnt would have to join us. It is not happening. If gun owners revolt they will be seen as criminals by the majority of Americans. Sad but true.

iyaoyas
4 years 42 weeks ago, 1:29 PM

LLE

LLE's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3167
Join Date:
Jul 2008
Location:
United States

so obviously, I cannot agree with unrealistic optimism.
First--you are intimating nothing is being done about the "in your face" assault on the 1st amendment. I find a veritable firestorm over the issue, and it ain't over yet, by any means.

Next, give me a case of eminent domain that you have assessed as not legally or morally defensible, rather than painting the concept as an all encompassing, ever insidious erosion of rights.

Next, tell us how, in your opinion the 14th has been specifically exceeded, in relation to homosexuals. What election results are you talking about.

I have been around long enough to know that assaults on the constitution have been made and will continie to be extent. I doubt we would be an effective society if we had marched in the streets at the drop of an assault.

I do not consider myself any more excitable than would be considered normative. I make my own case[s] and derive my own opinions based on my own assessment of what's happening in my respective environments, and I doubt I am being hooked by someone elses' game.

We are privileged to disagree with respect to what vigilant activism may result, and I believe it is going to be far more than your term, "handful", connotes.

The colonists were seen by the British as "criminals", and the colonists did pretty well. I think the "new" criminals might also.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
4 years 42 weeks ago, 2:39 PM

daisycutter

daisycutter's picture

Rank:
General of the Army
Points:
5724
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
Arkansas
LLE, here ya go.

Eminent Domain, Susette Kelo, et al. v. City of New London, Connecticut, et al. Docket nos. 04-108
California’s Proposition 8, a ballot initiative that limited the definition of marriage to a man and woman, was ruled unconstitutional by a federal appeals panel
In Calif. 1994, Proposition 187, which sought to take away benefits from undocumented immigrants, passed with nearly 60 percent of the vote. The initiative was later overturned by the courts
Prop 22, Defense of Marriage Act" (File No. SA 98 RF 0002). Voters adopted the measure on March 7, 2000 with 61% in favor to 39% against. In May 2008 it was struck down by the courts.
U.S. Const. amend. XIV. The laws of a state must treat an individual in the same manner as others in similar conditions and circumstances. A violation would occur, for example, if a state prohibited an individual from entering into an employment contract because he or she was a member of a particular race. The equal protection clause is not intended to provide "equality" among individuals or classes but only "equal application" of the laws.
Providing homos or anyone else with greater or lesser protections is against the 14th.
In the news, Whitney Houston's death, a missing NC woman, space exploration among many other things are above the fold. Not a word about the Catholic Church being under assault by the obama administration.

iyaoyas
4 years 42 weeks ago, 3:44 PM

LLE

LLE's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3167
Join Date:
Jul 2008
Location:
United States

I read a digest of the case. What do you find objectionable? I realize anyone can disagree with SCOTUS finding, I have many times, but I am scratching my head on this one. The Fifth is pretty clear re the "takings clause". I do not see the original owner being abused.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
4 years 42 weeks ago, 8:43 PM

daisycutter

daisycutter's picture

Rank:
General of the Army
Points:
5724
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
Arkansas

The property was taken to be used as a commercial enterprise, not for the immediate benefit of the community.
The commercial enterprise makes big money, they HOPE, the thinking behind the property grab was that the money would eventually trickle down to the benefit of the citizens.
That does not work out the same as property taken for widening a road, building a damn or municipal buildings that the citizens benefit from and enjoy directly immediately.
I cannot fathom the original intent being enriching businesses with HOPE that at some point the citizens will be better off for it.
Does that help give a clear picture of my thinking?

iyaoyas
4 years 42 weeks ago, 11:22 PM

LLE

LLE's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3167
Join Date:
Jul 2008
Location:
United States

your position is the same as plaintiffs'. You do not believe the acquisition was for strictly public benefit, but the justices argued that in actuality, looking at the assertion of the defendant, it WAS ultimately for the benefit of the public. The taking was not to benefit a private entity in the end result, but in the larger sense to benefit the whole municipal economy, and thus that qualifies as public usage. [The "hope" argument was rejected, probably because they could find no evil intent].

OK so you disagree, but the bottom line question for the purposes of our discussion is, do you see this as part of some obscene plot by the judiciary to erode constitutionally provided rights?
If you do, I must tell you that I have looked at cases that took place over eight decades, when I started with my first course in Government 101, and I disagreed with a significant number of decisions, yet I saw no pattern or practice reflective of an objective to bring down the Republic. This was so whether the court was tilted toward lberal vs a conservative "bias". So far, the Republic has survived.
And so when I look at Prop 8, which has been barred pending further judicial review, or Prop 187, the review of which ended in an opinion that the State in effect was attempting to regulate immigraton, although I disagree with the courts, I see no malevolence in their work.
By the way DOMA has Not been struck down by any court I can find. However, our esteemed POTUS and Attorney General have declared they will not enforce it, because THEY have declared Section 3 unconstitutional THEMSELVES.
And what of the 14th amendment? Are you saying equal protection has been violated on behalf of homosexuals? Perhaps you can clarify that for me..

I see no judicial malevolence leading to the erosion of rights enumerated in the constitution, even if I disagree with federal court findings. The pendulum swings with the makeup of the court and we have survived, and will continue to survive.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
4 years 42 weeks ago, 6:17 PM

LLE

LLE's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3167
Join Date:
Jul 2008
Location:
United States

the Obama administration". DC: WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN!? You cannot be serious! [apology to John MCenroe] For the last several weeks you could not turn on a news station, liberal or conservative or a political discussion program on TV /Radio/ internet, without bumping headlong into that story.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
4 years 42 weeks ago, 6:22 PM

Vaquero

Vaquero's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
5504
Join Date:
Dec 2009
Location:
West Texas

Not saying you aint right LLE. For the last few weeks for sure. O and the Catholics.
Yesterday and today? Whitney all day. Every few minutes. "Breaking news!"
I changed to a music channel just because of it.

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
4 years 42 weeks ago, 7:14 PM

greg az

greg az's picture

Rank:
Secretary of Homeland Security
Points:
5873
Join Date:
Oct 2009
Location:
New York, NY, Ascension Island

Not saying you aint right Daisy. for the last few weeks for sure. O and the Catholics.
Yesterday and today? Whitney all day. Every few minutes. "breaking news!"
I changed to a music channel just because of it.

BBRAAHHHHAAAAA.. Our however our buddy Daisy does it.. When it comes to B,R,A, H, &A's aint nobody does it better than Daisy..

Know what that means guys.. Yeah me either.. except no joke on the following.. I have no idea how this all came about.. I mean this group.. Maybe thats our payback for sticking with each other for a couple of years.. For you new comers thats not "restrictive".. Just the opposite, everyone who (ok anyone who) can put up with us is welcomed with open arms..

actually i am with daisy on this part.. you guys are a better read than anything else i have.
Sure says something sad about my reading habits huh.. the geez needs to get out more..

Dont know whats going on with the rest of you guys, but were heading into a major storm here in AZ's Weaver mt's..(Pauline Weaver ((yep a guys)) led the exploration of the area, AJ Peeples named the valley) and it's colder than a witches breast (left one) outside.. The high today was only 38.. whoo is me..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
4 years 42 weeks ago, 7:46 PM

LLE

LLE's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3167
Join Date:
Jul 2008
Location:
United States

necessarily. It's more like being on the same behavioral continuum, but way apart -sorta toward different ends.
So, we even resorted to some "needling", but I do not take any offense to that. My main goal here, is to understand what DC is saying as completely as I can. I haven't gotten "there" yet--but as some modern philosophers have said, "there may not be any "there", there.

I am probably mistaken, but I hear DC saying that among other things, important parts of the constitution, and properly legislated laws, are being corrupted by federal courts, up to and including the SCOTUS. But I cannot figure out how he sees that for the examples given.
I guess that is my way of saying--I would rather have more "siding" that explains why each person sees it that way. That's the way I [selfishly] learn the most. Nuff of that.

Here we are in the beautiful sunshine state--last night temp down to about 26, and today a high of about 59. But the rest of the week is forecast to get warmer. I'll tell ya---I ain't goin' down to the beach and jump in the surf--just yet!!

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
4 years 42 weeks ago, 7:52 PM

Vaquero

Vaquero's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
5504
Join Date:
Dec 2009
Location:
West Texas
No doubt LLE

We are "all" on the same side. I submit to you that we have different starting points with the same target. Rather than " on the same behavioral continuum, but way apart -sorta toward different ends".
Anyway, glad to see I am not talking to myself tonight.
BTW, Mom did have me tested. Repeatedly.

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
4 years 42 weeks ago, 11:41 PM

LLE

LLE's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3167
Join Date:
Jul 2008
Location:
United States

the results of those [repeated] tests!! :>))

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
4 years 42 weeks ago, 3:59 PM

Vaquero

Vaquero's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
5504
Join Date:
Dec 2009
Location:
West Texas
LLE

140s consistently.
: )

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
4 years 42 weeks ago, 7:00 PM

LLE

LLE's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3167
Join Date:
Jul 2008
Location:
United States

were they paper and pencil variety, or the kind where you sit with the psychologist and do verbal things and hand puzzle things? Generally, scores in the 140's represent the top 2% or better.
Not too shabby.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
4 years 42 weeks ago, 7:18 PM

Vaquero

Vaquero's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
5504
Join Date:
Dec 2009
Location:
West Texas
LLE

At around 4 Y.O. it started. Lots of Q&A. and visuals. Later the paper and pencil. Last one I took was senior year of H.S. Popped 150. Haven't considered one since. No telling what I might have done without the Cannibas. No joke.

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
4 years 42 weeks ago, 8:31 PM

daisycutter

daisycutter's picture

Rank:
General of the Army
Points:
5724
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
Arkansas

but here it just barely made 32 ;<(
I can just see you in your Bermuda shorts and flat cap LOL !

iyaoyas
4 years 42 weeks ago, 11:48 PM

LLE

LLE's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3167
Join Date:
Jul 2008
Location:
United States

It is only 50 degrees, and I ain't wearin' ANY Bermuda Shorts until we reach at least 70. Come to think of it, I don't have any Bermuda shorts. I'm usually in Wranglers, even playing golf., and I don't have a flat hat. I wear my 100% genuine Phillies baseball hat.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
4 years 42 weeks ago, 9:16 AM

Saint J.M. Browning

Saint J.M. Browning's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3569
Join Date:
Feb 2011
Location:
The Colony, Texas, United States
Phillies?

Well, you're STILL an alright guy anyway. ;)

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
4 years 42 weeks ago, 12:29 PM

LLE

LLE's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3167
Join Date:
Jul 2008
Location:
United States
SJMB: Thanks....

I even have an Eagles pennant on the wall. Every time I look at it, I break into uncontrolled sobbing. Can you help me??

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
4 years 42 weeks ago, 11:22 AM

Saint J.M. Browning

Saint J.M. Browning's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3569
Join Date:
Feb 2011
Location:
The Colony, Texas, United States
Eagles!!

OK, now I don't know if I can talk to you anymore. I might lose my Jr. Tom Landry badge. ;)

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
4 years 42 weeks ago, 8:54 PM

daisycutter

daisycutter's picture

Rank:
General of the Army
Points:
5724
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
Arkansas

I should have gone to other news outlets, right?
I do not watch news on TV and haven't for years. I don't need talking heads telling me what I'm supposed to think or feel about the news. I'd rather read a dull and boring book :<)

iyaoyas
4 years 42 weeks ago, 9:27 PM

HampsterW

HampsterW's picture

Rank:
Secretary of State
Points:
7723
Join Date:
Jan 2010
Location:
Cottonwood Heights, Utah, United States

fucked up threads that I have ever seen around here! We are talking about something that "matters", stayed on topic (a first) and WE ARE ALL ON THE SAME TEAM, of that you can be sure (as Vaq so eloquently stated...okay, he just said so....anyhoo!).We are cut from the same cloth, our core values are the same, we all stand for the same things in life and none of us like the direction in which OUR country is headed.....Whats not to like?
Group Hug!!!!!!!!LOL!

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
4 years 42 weeks ago, 9:45 PM

daisycutter

daisycutter's picture

Rank:
General of the Army
Points:
5724
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
Arkansas

I have my ideas as to how I'd deal with the "end" but y'all see our country the same as I do, the greatest country in the history of the world.
It's interesting though, all the way from the start there have been shit-for-brains clowns trying to change our country for the worse but, so far, we've stuck it out. It's a real challenge now, not going to be as easy as it has been in the past to keep things together but my Congressman and Senator hear from me---a lot. The congressman knows I'm going to work against him when his seat comes up. He's a RINO first termer. If he shapes up maybe I'll change my mind but we have to stay on their case, make sure they hear our side.

iyaoyas
4 years 42 weeks ago, 10:17 PM

HampsterW

HampsterW's picture

Rank:
Secretary of State
Points:
7723
Join Date:
Jan 2010
Location:
Cottonwood Heights, Utah, United States

woe betide he who kicks down my door in the middle of the night, I am not a drug dealer or criminal of any kind and if he be after my weapons I will "light the fuckers up".....You can take that to the bank.......I agree with Greg, I don't think it will ever happen...As far as starving me for ammo.......Lets just say that I am well equipped, I'm one of those "crazies" that buys by the crate (where is my tin foil hat? Fuckers are listening!!) anywhoo between reloading supplies (on hand) and assuming not having to shoot a lot every day I could hold out for quite some time........

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
4 years 42 weeks ago, 11:53 PM

LLE

LLE's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3167
Join Date:
Jul 2008
Location:
United States

and back acha Bro'!

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
4 years 42 weeks ago, 12:19 AM

greg az

greg az's picture

Rank:
Secretary of Homeland Security
Points:
5873
Join Date:
Oct 2009
Location:
New York, NY, Ascension Island

That was fun my friends..Of course were on the same side.. The issue of court reform is open ended.. I agree with Newt on this one.. that the judicial system needs some revue. Or at least some (hey i got my R's right, sorry..couldn't edit the earlier one) type of oversight that the other two branches of government have in abundance..

That's the issue to me.. Two consecutive liberal Presidents could fill the court with Judges who could indeed change the Nation.. Starting with the 2nd and working either up or down the numerical scale.. Lets face facts here, it could happen, and at the moment with no Judicial revue it couldn't be stoped.. Again the three branches are "supposed" to be equal, so why no revue of the high court..

The issue of a gun ban is one of reaps dead horse's.. nope.. but i stand on what Clint and i said on Ammo, and tax on same..

Of course i was kidding with the take sides thing, that was just a left hook to brother Lee, .. I will say tho that it would be a good match up.. Daisy and Vaq.. against LLE and myself..Either tag team for a Fri night smack down, or Jeopardy.. Alex I'd like History, Geo Politics, or Weapons for 500.. Two things are clear at this point.. Our mothers did not have us checked, and Fuck run's truck.. how bout a new topic we can really sink our teeth in.. Daisy.. you got yours in the glass yet.. BBRRRAAAHHHHAAAA

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
4 years 42 weeks ago, 11:29 AM

Saint J.M. Browning

Saint J.M. Browning's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3569
Join Date:
Feb 2011
Location:
The Colony, Texas, United States
LLE

A special agency, like the ATF, of a newly formed agency created for this purpose will carry it out. Household by household, in the middle of the night at gunpoint.

I think that they won't have to worry about incarcerating anyone, because as it will be done unobtrusively as this, most will comply at gunpoint and the few that don't will be shot, labeled as right wing nuts with stockpiles of guns, etc. and used as a warning to the rest.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
4 years 42 weeks ago, 12:40 PM

LLE

LLE's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3167
Join Date:
Jul 2008
Location:
United States

In my neighborhood, [assuming some forewarning such a thing were possible,] those house to house midnight marauders would have had their comm jammed, and never make ot out of the neighborhood alive. And they would have disappeared, mysteriously.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
4 years 42 weeks ago, 1:03 PM

HampsterW

HampsterW's picture

Rank:
Secretary of State
Points:
7723
Join Date:
Jan 2010
Location:
Cottonwood Heights, Utah, United States
I agree with LLE,

woe betied the fool who tries kicking in my door in the middle of the night, no mater what his motives or official capacity.

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
4 years 42 weeks ago, 10:09 PM

Builtf0rdtough

Builtf0rdtough's picture

Rank:
Lieutenant General
Points:
903
Join Date:
Nov 2009
Location:
FL, United States

dont underestimate the gov't and their plans. Obama isnt the ringleader, he was put in his position by people far more in power and far smarter...If they were to plan something on the scale of that, I doubt they would try and use American forces, they would bring in foreign troops, or those of mercenary type, those who work for pay. Im just saying, Ive got no proof or ideas, Im just saying, dont mis-underestimate or corrupt govt. obozo is a pupet, finding out who is pulling the strings will solve a lot of problems

"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy"-Winston Churchill
4 years 42 weeks ago, 9:02 AM

HampsterW

HampsterW's picture

Rank:
Secretary of State
Points:
7723
Join Date:
Jan 2010
Location:
Cottonwood Heights, Utah, United States
Good, send the foreign

troops to confiscate my weapons and send a good supply of body bags as well. I would feel much better about killing the foreign force as apposed to a domestic one, but either way............

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
4 years 42 weeks ago, 10:24 AM

daisycutter

daisycutter's picture

Rank:
General of the Army
Points:
5724
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
Arkansas

speaking troops wearing Blue helmets that would make it even easier.
It would hurt me very much if I ever had to pop a cap on ours. Fortunately, I see it as a near impossibility, there are sneakier ways for govmnt to take our guns than kicking down doors.

iyaoyas
4 years 42 weeks ago, 8:44 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

Saint J.M. Browning's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3569
Join Date:
Feb 2011
Location:
The Colony, Texas, United States
Ditto

That'd be the worst mistake they could make. I've already told my loved ones that, if the day comes, my goal is not to survive. My goal is to take out at least 10 before they get me.
Blue helmeted foreigners would remove any hesitation.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
4 years 42 weeks ago, 10:24 PM

Hellspawn72

Hellspawn72's picture

Rank:
Lieutenant Colonel
Points:
66
Join Date:
Apr 2011
Location:
St.Catharines, Ontario, Canada

What you say is very true in every way. They say our laws are put in place to protect us, but every time i put on the news another shooting happens and only an hours drive from where i live. Most if not all are caused by "lets say" non-white imports to our country. I was not a fan of guns in my early days of life but now that i am, i am finding it very hard to be able to get one. Even high powered air guns over 500fps. need a PAL to get one. I wish at times i was born in the U.S. because it is your birthright to own them. I hope my brothers to the south never end up messing up your laws the way ours are.

4 years 42 weeks ago, 11:05 AM

greg az

greg az's picture

Rank:
Secretary of Homeland Security
Points:
5873
Join Date:
Oct 2009
Location:
New York, NY, Ascension Island

Here's what i see that "could" happen.. If the political support for the 2nd amendment subsides, and i don't believe it will, even the Dems know it's the kiss of death to even Imply that they support gun control..That simply a matter of political expediency.. NOT their true feelings.. I have no doubt that if it were no politically expedient to be "pro" 2nd amendment most of the Democrats would be lock step for gun control.. If everything stays status que i don't think thats going to change.

"IF" some major event changed the political will of the people re 2nd amendment rights, then i could see it being an issue.. Were that to happen .. yes the obvious worse case scenario could also happen.. All gun owners to turn in their weapons by X date.. So that of course leads to all of the unregistered or unlisted guns. Ask yourself how many non FFL managed guns are floating around.. look at your own inventories.. half maybe huh.. Obviously this depends on a lot of variables, but when you consider that every weapon made for smokeless powder, and some that weren't are still capable of the same lethality, and theres (wow pick a number and square it) out there, im guessing that at least half of the Nations guns arent registered..

That of course was my point from the post above.. Those who are in the intel gathering business can't be very happy with some "guess" as to how many guns are out there.. Consequently i could see a concerted effort by "state" to get some sort of handle on how many are out there..

Ok so lets say some series of horrible events happen (can't imagine this happening) and the Nation changes it's political will re 2nd amendment.. the X date thing above happens.. I still don't think they would actually confiscate.. a much easier way of doing it guys.. BAN ammo.. just that simple.. Thats what im afraid would happen, and im afraid makes a lot of since..

I would bet money that all of us have enough ammo to keep that from being a problem.. least for sometime.. Remember if the worst case on this ever happens were not going to be going down to the range much.. lol..

So whats the logical thing to do.. here's my example..i said two and a half years ago that i collected Victory models.. You guys know im a fanatic about validating anything said with a pic to prove it. Vaq has scanned a bunch of Motor Cycle pics just for that purpose.. Notice that on the Victory's i've only shown one (an FFL documented piece) . All the guns i have in pictures were obtained thru FFL.. Those that are non recorded are a bit picture shy..

Bottom line it's just being cautious. No ones going to have their guns confiscated.. the Ammo thing.. hmm different situation.. that "could" happen, but not with the will of the people as it is..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
4 years 42 weeks ago, 11:19 AM

clintlebo

clintlebo's picture


Rank:
Lieutenant General
Points:
2311
Join Date:
Aug 2008
Location:
land, of confusion, United States
can get around guns

tax ammo and the components at artificially high rates and you nullify the use of guns. You still have the right to bear arms, it is just that those arms are now impotent. Those with "stockpiles" will be able to weather the storm, but with no one purchasing ammo, the companies supplying it will go out of business. With no one buying ammo, there is no reason to make guns anymore and the firearm manufacturers will go out of business. By curtailing the distribution of ammo, the government can keep the 2nd amendment in tact and destroy the use of firearms for any purpose.
Just a hypothetical situation...

clint

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin & Hobbes)
4 years 42 weeks ago, 12:31 PM

LLE

LLE's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3167
Join Date:
Jul 2008
Location:
United States

our judicial system is still functioning reasonably well. The case against such a naked attempt would be predicated on the sense of congress when the term the right to bear "arms" was examined. What do you believe the sense of congress was?--Just muskets, but no powder or projectiles?? OR useless weapons?? The tax at unreasonably high rates could probably also be attacked on the basis that a well regulated militia could not, on a voluntary basis be maintained under such taxation.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
4 years 42 weeks ago, 11:28 AM

LLE

LLE's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3167
Join Date:
Jul 2008
Location:
United States

that ammo banning is no different in principle, than is gunbanning/confiscation. Both are an assault on constitutionally provided rights. When that train starts to roll down the tracks, there is going to be a reassessment by the citizenry, as to whether this is the first step by the present "government" in curtailing all constitutional rights. What follows may be very painful.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
4 years 42 weeks ago, 12:58 PM

greg az

greg az's picture

Rank:
Secretary of Homeland Security
Points:
5873
Join Date:
Oct 2009
Location:
New York, NY, Ascension Island
Of course i do LLE..

Do i see that Ammo banning is no different in principle.. OF COURSE... I'm on your (and all) our side on this.. I wasn't justifying it in anyway my friend.. Just saying that if the worst happens, thats the form it will take..

Clint is dead spot on.. Start with an absurd tax.. the 2nd is not infringed on is it.. Tax is "so" politically correct.. Ammo (or types of it) simply join the ever growing list of those things that the gov doesn't want us to have.. heck they don't even have to rename it .. Bureau of Tobacco (tax) firearms (tax) alcohol (tax) sugar (tax) ammo (tax). Maybe a tad over the top. Mom never had me tested..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
4 years 42 weeks ago, 3:05 PM

LLE

LLE's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3167
Join Date:
Jul 2008
Location:
United States

my response to Clint onammo and taxation.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
4 years 42 weeks ago, 11:36 AM

clintlebo

clintlebo's picture


Rank:
Lieutenant General
Points:
2311
Join Date:
Aug 2008
Location:
land, of confusion, United States
LLE's opinion

LLE,
What do you opine about the use of incrementalism? You could start with 5.56 NATO, 7.62 NATO, 9mm, and .45 ACP. They could be argued that only the military and law enforcement needs these calibers. They are after all responsible for most of the gun violence in the U.S.A. Who doesn't want violent crime to be eradicated? Or other sensationalist propaganda.
I agree with LLE that it could not happen over night, but look at history and understand the erosion of our Republic to see the future of our Republic. Losing rights does not happen over night, it is a constant battle we fight.
Concessions to the liberal agenda is the enemy.

clint

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin & Hobbes)
4 years 42 weeks ago, 2:33 PM

LLE

LLE's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3167
Join Date:
Jul 2008
Location:
United States

that incrementalism, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Both have been with us for a long time, but may have or have not been noticed, depending upon our own idiosyncratic concerns at any particular time.
In respect to guns per se, many believe the original assault weapon ban legislation was the first step in the planned incremental destruction of second amendment rights. The political "discussions" leading up to the passage of the legislation were acrimonious on both sides, and the ten year sunset was a compromise, just to get it passed. In this case however, after the sunset, all attempts to obtain a restart of the incremental plan have been defeated, and with a [desired] Republican control of the Senate and House it would probably be very difficult to move toward a model such as you suggested. [By the way, what stats underly your statement that those calibers are responsible for most of the gun violence in the USA?? I am not disputing it--I would like to see it/them].

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
4 years 42 weeks ago, 1:55 PM

greg az

greg az's picture

Rank:
Secretary of Homeland Security
Points:
5873
Join Date:
Oct 2009
Location:
New York, NY, Ascension Island

here's his quote..

"In the real world there are not enough people who share our interest in the 2nd amend. or care enough about anyone else's particular constitutional crises".

Thats the core of the issue gents (sorry & lean'r) .. Think we've hit pay dirt on this one.. Yeah theres the tea party (look at the age demographics and numbers) Sheesh.. you could lump all the tea party set, the Libertarians (im waving at ya all) and all those strict constitutional conservatives, NRA members, and .. oh say that gunslot group of 2nd amendment supporters.. Know what percent ALL of these are.. Honest guess here guys think about it.. Re read and think about percentage numbers, remember that they overlap.. most 2nd amendment types will clearly be strict constructionist's.. bottom line is whats the total percent of the population..

Maybe 15 or 20 percent of the population.. Might seem like more due to squeakywheelness..
(Whoop whoop whoop officer woodie please report to LLE asap) .. my point is that Daisy has hit the nail on the colloquialism.. (that was really clever for those still paying attention, maybe Mom did have me tested after all) We're neither large enough or cohesive enough to be any opposition.. Watch TV for one evening of CRAP.. With out sounding to geezerish (woodie, while your on scene) we have seen the Nation in continued decline.. and not just morays. Talking about our place on the world stage..

Were falling so far behind in all things related to education. (daughter is a teacher.. this is fact not rant) We have a 50% drop out rate from HS.. This is the total nation wide. 60% of Blacks, 70% of Hispanics.. Failing to graduate.. What happens to this group.. The argument is not about why, we all have that pretty much figured out, and no im not putting all the blame on the individual kid..When theirs no father figure, when the family business is welfare.. I'm not sure i'd fair a lot better if raised in the same environ. The point is were in the minority to a degree that i don't thing we realize.

Daisy's absolutely right.. Were standing pretty much alone here guys.. Anyone who things that our feelings reflect the average of America is just FLAT wrong.. It's so easy to think others share our view, because we constantly reinforce that thinking in our back and fourths.. Guys the real world out there doesn't give a shit.. Outside of the Military, LE and a small group of conservatives..Even those numbers are small.. look at the elections last week.. some of the States had turn outs of only 5 to 10 thousand .. The real world is controlled by 10-15 second sound bites.. They have such little knowledge of the events that apparently a large number of voting age youths in the last few primary states have been under the impression that it was a presidential vote, and unaware of the primary process..

I know this is hard to believe.. I didn't buy into it a few years ago.. Fact is our decline (unless we have a major turn around) is pretty well set in stone.. This sounds absurd after all this, but im not a negative person. i don't think the sky is falling, and while i don't think their will ever be another greatest generation.. overall i think today's youth are good kids.. Just that their clueless about anything political.. it's all about the immediate, not the future, and our education system has let them (and us obviously) down to the point that they just don't get it.. One last thought on this.. Heard this yesterday listening to this subject being discussed.. One of our WWII veterans made this comment.. He had been invited to speak at his great granddaughters graduation, and was introduced by her teacher.. Fact not a story.. She introduced him as being a veteran of world war eleven.

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
4 years 42 weeks ago, 2:54 PM

daisycutter

daisycutter's picture

Rank:
General of the Army
Points:
5724
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
Arkansas
ROTFLMAO ! Greg LOL!

"She introduced him as being a veteran of world war eleven."
Your post is insightful.
Our education system has not seen the rest of the world improving, the rest of the world is watching us lose the interest and ability in education. They're keeping on while we stopped.

iyaoyas
4 years 41 weeks ago, 9:50 AM

leanneshu

leanneshu's picture

Rank:
Brigadier General
Points:
308
Join Date:
Dec 2011
Location:
Peoria, Arizona, United States
true

clueless, yes. Attitude of it doesn't effect me, horrible.

4 years 42 weeks ago, 3:12 PM

Hellspawn72

Hellspawn72's picture

Rank:
Lieutenant Colonel
Points:
66
Join Date:
Apr 2011
Location:
St.Catharines, Ontario, Canada
Amen Greg

Amen Greg ,,God loves you and so do i,,That is what i believe exactly !!!!

4 years 42 weeks ago, 3:14 PM

daisycutter

daisycutter's picture

Rank:
General of the Army
Points:
5724
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
Arkansas

guys here make it hard for me to finish it.
The conversations here are more interesting that a biography of Gov Faubus but I'll break loose from here and read some more

Be back after while :<))

iyaoyas
4 years 42 weeks ago, 3:37 PM

HampsterW

HampsterW's picture

Rank:
Secretary of State
Points:
7723
Join Date:
Jan 2010
Location:
Cottonwood Heights, Utah, United States
Sure are DC,

too busy at work to comment much but sure do follow along, good stuff. As for Clint's assertion that 5.56 NATO 45ACP etc being behind a large percentage of the crime, I highly doubt it, some statistics I found:
A study done in by the University of Pennsylvania showed that, in
Philadelphia,:

In 1985, of 91 homicides

44% .38 caliber revolver
19% .25 caliber pistol
14% .22 caliber revolver
14% .32 caliber revolver
3% 9 mm pistol
2% .357 caliber revolver

In 1990, of 204 homicides

23% 9 mm pistol
18% .38 caliber revolver
16% .357 caliber revolver
16% .22 caliber revolver
10% .32 caliber revolver

"The Virginia Department of Criminal Justice Services studied 844
homicides that occurred in 18 jurisdictions from 1989 through 1991.
Firearms were identified as the murder weapon in 600 cases. Over 70%
of the firearms used were handguns. Of those handguns where the
caliber and firing action could be identified, 19% were a .38 caliber
revolver, 10% were .22 caliber revolvers, and 9% were 9 millimeter
semiautomatic pistols."

"The Hawaii Department of the Attorney General, Crime Prevention
Division, studied 59 firearms-related homicides in Honolulu from 1988
to 1992. Handguns were used in 48 homicides (over 80%) including 11
handguns of 9 millimeter caliber, 10 of .357 caliber, 10 of .38
caliber, and 5 of .25 caliber."

Guns Used in Crime
http://www.firearmsid.com/Feature%20Articles/0900GUIC/Guns%20Used%20in%2...

Handguns Taken in Evidence in California, 1993

5,222 - .22
4,693 - .25
1,477 - .32
4,842 - .380
4,671 - .38
5,295 - 9mm
2,395 - .357
1,787 - .45

Does California Have Crime Guns?
An Analysis of Justice Department Data
http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/vprp/snsweb.html

The top 10 guns used in crimes in the United States, according to an
unpublished Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms report:

1. Smith and Wesson .38 revolver
2. Ruger 9 mm semiautomatic
3. Lorcin Engineering .380 semiautomatic
4. Raven Arms .25 semiautomatic
5. Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun
6. Smith and Wesson 9mm semiautomatic
7. Smith and Wesson .357 revolver
8. Bryco Arms 9mm semiautomatic
9. Bryco Arms .380 semiautomatic
10. Davis Industries .380 semiautomatic

America's Most Wanted Guns
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,320383,00.html

"The number one gun used in crimes during 1999 was the Smith & Wesson
.38 caliber revolver. 4.6% of all handgun crimes involved this type of
gun"

An Analytical Discussion of Gun Violence in the United States
http://www.plu.edu/~gunvlnce/facts5.html

"Q: So is it fair to say that that's the gun that is most frequently
used in crime?

Wachtel: Well, I don't know that there's a direct correlation between
that. We have reason to believe that [of] the guns most frequently
used in crime now, it has actually climbed to the 9mm pistols. But
certainly the Lorcin-380 and other relatively inexpensive .380 caliber
and 9mm pistols are very frequently used in crimes...The Lorcin's
happen to be one of them."

Interview with Julius Wachtel, Special Agent in Charge of the Bureau
of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearm's Long Beach office
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/guns/interviews/wachtel.html

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
4 years 42 weeks ago, 8:25 PM

daisycutter

daisycutter's picture

Rank:
General of the Army
Points:
5724
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
Arkansas

for some reason, HOT in here.
Mrs. Daisy is yackin' on the phone and has "Pawn Stars" on TV, she loves Chumly, lousy place to try reading.
I was just going to breeze through GS, get a few grins but looks like there are still some serious threads going.

That's an interesting set of numbers, huge shifts in some calibers matches the trend I've seen in popularity of the guns themselves. Also, the old story about 9MM passing through it's target with little effect is no more with the selection of ammunition we have now.

iyaoyas
4 years 42 weeks ago, 8:06 AM

clintlebo

clintlebo's picture


Rank:
Lieutenant General
Points:
2311
Join Date:
Aug 2008
Location:
land, of confusion, United States
to answer LLE and Hamp

Seeing how the medium of internet chat style bulletin boards can not convey sarcasm or idiom, let me try to be more specific and to the point.
I was trying to make an argument used by anti gun legislatures to emphasize that they do not use facts or figures to back their wild assertions. I provided no facts or figures because it was meant as an off the cuff remark to incite panic in the citizens. Leading to a co sponsored bill to curtail ammo for those calibers. The basic correlation was that those specific calibers are military calibers and thus there is no reason for citizens to own them.I read it plain as day in my post, however, I also am the one that wrote it, and I also have the privilege of sarcasm and idiom. So Hamp you may have correct information as to hard data on homicides for 1985.

LLE, you are correct in your assertion that incrementalism is subjective. your claim concerning the 1992 gun ban makes sense. I was looking at a bigger picture than just firearms when I mentioned incrementalism. I was looking at the erosion of the Constitution and the way I want it interpreted. Your examples of fighting the process of what can be called incrementaism after the 10 year ban, only proves the point. The anti gun groups are still trying to erode the freedom to bear arms. It is only the patriots that fight for those freedoms that are extinguishing the attacks.

I apologize that my post was not read with sarcasm and idiom. Please go back to your regularly scheduled discussions.

clint

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin & Hobbes)
4 years 42 weeks ago, 8:52 AM

HampsterW

HampsterW's picture

Rank:
Secretary of State
Points:
7723
Join Date:
Jan 2010
Location:
Cottonwood Heights, Utah, United States
Figured as much Clint,

you are correct that sarcasm does not travel well over the world wide webbattude, but your sarcastic comment piqued my interest in the subject which warranted research. I was sure that 9mm would be the most involved in crime and these days it probably is, there is just not much data on calibers correlation to crime:-)

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
4 years 42 weeks ago, 12:53 PM

LLE

LLE's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3167
Join Date:
Jul 2008
Location:
United States

Actually, when I first read your post, I read it the way you intended. Then, I forgot that by the time I had asked for statistics.[what can you expect from an 80 year old curmudgeon?]
As regards erosion of the constitution--as I said elsewhere to Daisy, I could look at decisions over many decades, and interpret those that I disagree with as representing a pattern of moving toward a gutting of the constitution [depending on how paranoid I was at the time] . But then, looking at those I agreed with, I saw "hope" that I was wrong. Then I realized it all was a function of the court makeup [sometimes it takes a while for me to catch on!!], and the pendulum would swing, slowly back and forth--and the Republic still survived. And I believe it will continue to survive long after I have begun to play golf on that great heavenly golf course in the sky.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
4 years 42 weeks ago, 5:11 PM

greg az

greg az's picture

Rank:
Secretary of Homeland Security
Points:
5873
Join Date:
Oct 2009
Location:
New York, NY, Ascension Island
Afternoon Gent's.

Have to make this a short one as It's time for Charles Krauthammer.. That list proves one thing, availability..
1. Smith and Wesson .38 revolver ............yep, more model K frames than anything else
2. Ruger 9 mm semiautomatic................... i don't understand this one..
3. Lorcin Engineering .380 semiautomatic..Hate to kid about this, but bet money its chrome..
4. Raven Arms .25 semiautomatic..............Some of these are very collectible ya know..
5. Mossberg 12 gauge shotgun..................cause their cheaper than 870 wingmasters maybe
6. Smith and Wesson 9mm semiautomatic..ah yes the good old model 39, and newer M&P
7. Smith and Wesson .357 revolver............see #1 above.. course this could be an N frame 27
8. Bryco Arms 9mm semiautomatic.............cause when you can afford the very best, you
9. Bryco Arms .380 semiautomatic..............always get a bryco.. best if chrome plated..
0. Davis Industries .380 semiautomatic.......some of these are very collectible ya know..

Hope this comes out as i've typed it.. you guys might have to do a little editing, if some of the dashes are longer its due to formatting..

I feel the same way about our collective witt and wisdom.. see my post on that yesterday.. that was from the heart.. ok what else.. Pard i see they released you early again huh.. hmm.. Hey Hellboy good posts guy welcome aboard..always glad to have another card carrying Christian around.

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
4 years 42 weeks ago, 8:37 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

Saint J.M. Browning's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3569
Join Date:
Feb 2011
Location:
The Colony, Texas, United States
Greg

I'd be surprised if the percentages were that high. I'd say 10% would be an optimistic appraisal. But let's say it's 10%. That's 35 million Americans. Armed. IF we could stand united and really show solidarity, that would be more than enough to send a message. But the crux of the matter is that very big IF.
Don't forget that it doesn't mean the remaining 90% are the opposition. I'd put that number at roughly equal. Fortunately, they're spineless cowards that would rather con other A personalities fight their battles. The remaining 80% are the sheep that will be lead. Who will lead them?

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
4 years 42 weeks ago, 1:14 PM

LLE

LLE's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3167
Join Date:
Jul 2008
Location:
United States

I think--inside the 35 million is something like 15 million able-bodied veterans, some of whom are expert at organizing different types of quasi-military strike forces, and some of whom can improvise devastating home-made weapons, including turning semi auto weapons into full auto weapons.............Not that I'm suggesting this would be necessary.........................

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
4 years 42 weeks ago, 6:55 AM

Ishootdaily

Ishootdaily's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
4375
Join Date:
Feb 2009
Location:
Saint Petersburg, Florida, United States

LMAO!!!

hehehe

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
4 years 42 weeks ago, 9:13 AM

Saint J.M. Browning

Saint J.M. Browning's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3569
Join Date:
Feb 2011
Location:
The Colony, Texas, United States
Software?

What the hell are you babbling about? lol!

ADD strikes again!

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
4 years 42 weeks ago, 11:18 AM

greg az

greg az's picture

Rank:
Secretary of Homeland Security
Points:
5873
Join Date:
Oct 2009
Location:
New York, NY, Ascension Island

gave me a laugh, and proves that while we might be ADD and angst ridden we "sometimes" revert to, and on occasion remember the original subject..

As to the question, yep i used the free sample.. listed an old daisy red rider, and a few of the wifes kitchen accessories .. Remember the kitchen magician slicer dicer, doesn't kill people, people kill people.

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
4 years 42 weeks ago, 8:42 AM

HampsterW

HampsterW's picture

Rank:
Secretary of State
Points:
7723
Join Date:
Jan 2010
Location:
Cottonwood Heights, Utah, United States
Software....I am

of the pen and paper crowd...lol

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
4 years 42 weeks ago, 12:33 PM

Hellspawn72

Hellspawn72's picture

Rank:
Lieutenant Colonel
Points:
66
Join Date:
Apr 2011
Location:
St.Catharines, Ontario, Canada

Thanks for the welcome aboard Greg,,and i don't mean to correct you, but it's Hellspawn after the Todd Mcfarlane comic character, not Hellboy the big red dude with a stone hand!!! Just had to clear that up,,, lol...

And I am a pen and paper, firebox kinda guy....

4 years 41 weeks ago, 9:45 AM

leanneshu

leanneshu's picture

Rank:
Brigadier General
Points:
308
Join Date:
Dec 2011
Location:
Peoria, Arizona, United States
Welcome

Welcome to our warm and fuzzy home!

4 years 41 weeks ago, 9:48 AM

daisycutter

daisycutter's picture

Rank:
General of the Army
Points:
5724
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
Arkansas

`

iyaoyas
4 years 41 weeks ago, 9:54 AM

leanneshu

leanneshu's picture

Rank:
Brigadier General
Points:
308
Join Date:
Dec 2011
Location:
Peoria, Arizona, United States
Good Morning!

It's been good, work and everyday duties have kept me away from here for a spell. Well, my daughter, (19) has decided to become an adult and join the real world..she is moving out first of March..

4 years 41 weeks ago, 10:06 AM

daisycutter

daisycutter's picture

Rank:
General of the Army
Points:
5724
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
Arkansas

young adult son moved out I had mixed feelings about it. Did not want him to leave but he needed to experience the harsh realities. He grew up...FAST ! :<)
I suppose I am getting "clingy" now. I kind of resent the 4 year old's parents decision to put her in school. Having her here everyday made the house a "funner" place, Bubble Guppies, Dora, Omi Zoomie, Micky's Club House and all. LOL

iyaoyas
4 years 41 weeks ago, 10:49 AM

leanneshu

leanneshu's picture

Rank:
Brigadier General
Points:
308
Join Date:
Dec 2011
Location:
Peoria, Arizona, United States
DC

Just got back parent/teacher conf. I know she'll do fine..I think I'll be ok. At least her apartment is only about 2 mi away. I can't imagine how quiet it is at your house, but it's ok to be "clingy".

4 years 41 weeks ago, 11:11 AM

greg az

greg az's picture

Rank:
Secretary of Homeland Security
Points:
5873
Join Date:
Oct 2009
Location:
New York, NY, Ascension Island

Mom's having some "issues" with youngest at the moment, (education costs etc) I don't think many of the younger set are doing that well, and she's like so many others with huge education bills, thing is they haven't resulted in a better job, and the talk is about doubling down, and taking more classes.. 7mo online for an additional 10K.. Point is were wondering if my subject line might happen down the road..

Daisy thanks for sticking last night.. Those cramps were less than fun, heading up for electrolyte tests pretty soon.. 64 year old geezers shouldn't be drinking pedialyte like bud..

Hope your all doing well today..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
4 years 41 weeks ago, 11:33 AM

daisycutter

daisycutter's picture

Rank:
General of the Army
Points:
5724
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
Arkansas
Greg.

".. 64 year old geezers shouldn't be drinking pedialyte like bud.."

There ya go, lying about your age again! Ya have some sweetie in the old folks home you trying to impress? BWAHAAHAHA :<)

Seriously, I do know you're going through some REAL pain and I can only hope the Dr's can help!

iyaoyas
4 years 41 weeks ago, 11:42 AM

greg az

greg az's picture

Rank:
Secretary of Homeland Security
Points:
5873
Join Date:
Oct 2009
Location:
New York, NY, Ascension Island

Thanks for "hang'n" last night.. were going for tests in 5 min.. just getting off when i saw your comment.. least google, and docs agree nothing super serious,. and of course related to the stuff thats making the prostate thing ok.. that parts good so guess we deal with it.. actually sure they can find whats low.. i will say that full cramp/ Charles Equestrienne's.. in 3 or more major muscle groups at the same time will make you "yodel".. pee pants, bawl like baby, stick finger in light socket, and other way odd things.. All will be better..later all..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
4 years 41 weeks ago, 3:40 PM

leanneshu

leanneshu's picture

Rank:
Brigadier General
Points:
308
Join Date:
Dec 2011
Location:
Peoria, Arizona, United States
Greg

Yeah, we hope she keeps up the college and work. Told her if she dropped out of school we'd move her back home. We told her she could stay as long as she needed to get her nursing degree, but I think the freedom thing was looking better.
Cramps no fun for anyone male or female that's for sure. I hope your doing better,

4 years 42 weeks ago, 12:57 PM

greg az

greg az's picture

Rank:
Secretary of Homeland Security
Points:
5873
Join Date:
Oct 2009
Location:
New York, NY, Ascension Island
Hellspawn72

Yeah i know.. believe it or not, i got the Hellspawn from the get go.. Part of our "charm" is name manipulation.. The whole nickname thing is found in abundance here.. Matter of fact some of our regulars like to call me "DICK HEAD"..and or "SHIT FOR BRAINS"..

To continue the example we have a member Leeann.. Call her 'lean'r" ..another one is BuiltFordtough. He became "sortatough".. in other words this is one of those warm and fuzzy welcome things...

Since you're obviously not comfortable with Hellboy.. and i can see how Hellspawn is far superior..hmm.. can we call you bill..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
4 years 41 weeks ago, 7:47 PM

ronin1604

ronin1604's picture

Rank:
Lieutenant General
Points:
801
Join Date:
Aug 2008
Location:
killeen, texas
bill...

greg az wrote:
..hmm.. can we call you bill..

LMFAO!!!!

__________________ "...He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one." - Jesus, Luke 22:36
4 years 42 weeks ago, 1:00 PM

LLE

LLE's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3167
Join Date:
Jul 2008
Location:
United States

on a trial basis, having listed my Vector-selector-injector-projector ray gun, and my 1873 lever action repeating pea shooter. Seems to work nicely.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
4 years 42 weeks ago, 1:56 PM

greg az

greg az's picture

Rank:
Secretary of Homeland Security
Points:
5873
Join Date:
Oct 2009
Location:
New York, NY, Ascension Island

Let this be a lesson to all gunslot users.. LLE "usta" be a higher than normal intelligence, top of the line executive type.. i hold this up to court as exhibit A. on the ban gunslot case.. What was once an above average functioning member of society has now become a gun hording psycho, who is known to occasional fondle his guns in the presence of others.. prosecution rests..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
4 years 42 weeks ago, 1:01 PM

HampsterW

HampsterW's picture

Rank:
Secretary of State
Points:
7723
Join Date:
Jan 2010
Location:
Cottonwood Heights, Utah, United States

I like Hellboy myself....

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
4 years 42 weeks ago, 1:04 PM

Hellspawn72

Hellspawn72's picture

Rank:
Lieutenant Colonel
Points:
66
Join Date:
Apr 2011
Location:
St.Catharines, Ontario, Canada
Thanks Greg

If i am to be one of the crowd you can treat or call me what you wish.. I just wasn't sure if you knew the diff.. A lot of people ask about my name because i use it everywhere and they have no idea!! But now that you have told me that all is cool...

4 years 42 weeks ago, 1:47 PM

greg az

greg az's picture

Rank:
Secretary of Homeland Security
Points:
5873
Join Date:
Oct 2009
Location:
New York, NY, Ascension Island

Hellspawn72.. You are absolutely one of the crowd.. I'm really sorry about that part..Hamp will tell you, were sorta like hotel CA, if you remember that one.. you can check in but you can't check out..

you mentioned "A lot of people ask about my name because i use it everywhere and they have no idea!!"... Were good listeners, if it doesn't involve planting uncle Ted in the back yard fill us in on the "no idea" part..

Deal with the name is it doesn't exactly roll off either tongue or typewriter, balls in your court (less you buried it with ted).. fill us in, and if YOU want give us something that doesn't require me to hold up a cross after i type it..

Hamp...waz up brother, still glad that eagle landed outside your house.. hey did i ever ask you if you had bodies in the back yard.. oh yeah i remember now.. great place to put that pool huh.

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
4 years 42 weeks ago, 2:16 PM

HampsterW

HampsterW's picture

Rank:
Secretary of State
Points:
7723
Join Date:
Jan 2010
Location:
Cottonwood Heights, Utah, United States

how could anybody work in that position? Just keeping you geezers in beer money with my unselfish contributions to Social Security......Sam, still trying to find that second job as I do know you like your brandy.

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
4 years 42 weeks ago, 2:37 PM

greg az

greg az's picture

Rank:
Secretary of Homeland Security
Points:
5873
Join Date:
Oct 2009
Location:
New York, NY, Ascension Island

Will follow your Canadian lead on that one .. We place major kudos on a mans ability to be comfortable in his own skin.. "collect action figures" sorta maxes that out.. OH NO your going to fit in just fine.. Don't worry much about the gun issue, we know it's the law..

Hamp.. i like the occasional brandy as well.. would an extra shift put you over the top. Thanks for the SS anyway.. and will be sure and save some for ya... ok now im on the floor..

later dudes.. hope ya all like the Eric post..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
4 years 42 weeks ago, 2:02 PM

Hellspawn72

Hellspawn72's picture

Rank:
Lieutenant Colonel
Points:
66
Join Date:
Apr 2011
Location:
St.Catharines, Ontario, Canada
It's a long story Greg

not for this post, but if you know the story line of Spawn it is basicly a man at odds with himself and who he has become. At war with myself at most times that's why I relate with the name plus i collect the action figures,,,lol...And don't be sorry for anything just glad i can feel part of something i have interest in, even if I at the moment don't own anything that fires with powder.

4 years 42 weeks ago, 4:13 PM

Vaquero

Vaquero's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
5504
Join Date:
Dec 2009
Location:
West Texas
Software?

We don' need no stinking software!
Pard, I been rather blue lately but you have done good by me today.
Billspawn, Hellbill..........Sorry Hellspawn72. Glad to have you here and certainly appreciate the different point of view. Those without have a keen appreciation for what has been lost. Thanks for reminding us just how blessed we are and how easily it could be taken away.

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
4 years 41 weeks ago, 6:01 AM

Wolfrage

Wolfrage's picture

Rank:
Master Sergeant
Points:
17
Join Date:
Feb 2012
Location:
Derry, NH, United States
I'm the developer ;)

I'm the developer of the Gun Count (which is a rebranded version of MyGunDB that I offer to G&P to help support the org). All data is in an encrypted database and never leaves your machine. Privacy and security were of utmost concern for me as I originally began writing it for my own needs (I got my C&R and have crappy handwriting so I didn't want to use a hardcopy bound book). If you have any concerns or questions about the program, please let me know!

4 years 41 weeks ago, 9:24 AM

Saint J.M. Browning

Saint J.M. Browning's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3569
Join Date:
Feb 2011
Location:
The Colony, Texas, United States
Wolfrage

First of all, welcome to the site. I'm a developer myself. No offense meant to you at all, but I'm not confident that the NSA wouldn't still be able to pull this w/ little effort, if they wanted. Of course, why would they want to? But still, the way things are going, I don't want big brother to have a list of all my weapons. That I don't have anymore because they've been sold and/or lost. ;)

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
4 years 41 weeks ago, 8:13 AM

greg az

greg az's picture

Rank:
Secretary of Homeland Security
Points:
5873
Join Date:
Oct 2009
Location:
New York, NY, Ascension Island

First..thank you for making an effort to clear this up.. that matters.. May we ask a couple candid questions.. how did it happen that you showed up here the day after the original post appeared.. How do we know who has access to the encrypted data base.. Also can we ask what happened yesterday with the post, then no access to it. Please understand that we have all the respect in the world for LLE, but just a bit curious as to who wants info on our weapons, sincere appoligies for any tinfoil left over ..we have a one size fits all template.. help with that would be appreciated as well..

thanks in advance, and good going in NH.. the live free or die state. think you guys are the last hold out on seat belts right..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
4 years 41 weeks ago, 8:44 AM

Wolfrage

Wolfrage's picture

Rank:
Master Sergeant
Points:
17
Join Date:
Feb 2012
Location:
Derry, NH, United States
Sure, ask away!

I came across here through a random search, actually. Usually I find sites quickly because google analytics shows Referrals -- what URL a visitor comes from, so I often find new postings within minutes or hours (depending on how busy work is or how bored I am ;)) by checking my site for new visitors. This time though I was doing searches for the rebranded versions (I think I was searching for the email I use for support for The Gun Count, IIRC) and this site came up. I didn't recognize the URL so I came to visit!

As for the post yesterday, I think you mean the first attempt I made to post that didn't appear? I had a link to the security page on my site talking about the security features and it was flagged as spam (and said a moderator would remove the flag if they approved it, but I guess they didn't). It's on the MyGunDB site as one of the top tabs (I'm afraid to put in the link as I don't want to be flagged as spam again!).

Now, about the database: Adobe AIR, which the program is written in, has native support for encrypted SQLite databases, which is what I use. The way it works is that no password is stored on the system -- when you type it in, it uses it on the fly to unencrypt the datastream (the database will always remain encrypted). That means if you lose your password, there is no way to access the database. Plus the SQLite version used by AIR can only be used in AIR -- so not only would someone need to know the encryption routine I use, they would also need your password and they'd need to access it through an AIR app.

Also, the program is directly tied to me through a code signing cert. It's tied to my name, address, driver's license, phone number... The certificate authority can revoke my cert if I'm found to be doing bad stuff, and it prevents anyone from being able to tamper with the install files (which would break the cert).

I understand your concerns -- I get the same questions on every new board my program is mentioned on because everyone worries about the same things: security, privacy, reliability and portability.

If you do a couple searches for MyGunDB on boards like NorthEastShooters and Arfcom, you can find the community threads going back to when I started beta testing with users. We discuss these things in detail as the program was built on about 95% user feedback.

Also note that the Civilian Marksmanship Program (the CMP) even rebrands the program to help support their organization -- I'm working with a number of large organizations (like the Second Amendment Foundation, Arfcom, and others) to make sure MygunDB continues to meet the community's needs. I'm not a fly-by-night developer (of course if I were, I wouldn't say so) which I think the other threads will demonstrate, and while MyGunDB is a business, that's only as a distant second to being a labor of love :D It's a hobby (addiction?) because _I_ need the program myself. The fact that so many others use it is amazing.

But hey, even if you dont' want to store your firearm data in it (but for your sake, store it SOMEPLACE, even on a piece of paper, for insurance purposes!) it will handle your ammo inventory, maintenance log, etc -- even in the free version. :D

As for NH -- yup, kids have to wear them though. While I think people aren't being smart when they don't wear a seat belt, that's their call. Same with helmets -- no need for one here either.

We're really live free or die -- CCW permits are required to be issued within 10 days of application, by law, and we're a Shall Issue state. No need for a permit to OC (you DO need it to have a loaded pistol in your car at any time, concealed or not, and NEVER a rifle or shotgun loaded in the car ever). I like it here. I'm originally from Philadelphia, before I moved here for a few years to live with my father, after I had moved to England for a year for work and before I went into the Army. When I got out of the Army I picked NH tobe a resident at because I could go to school on my GI bill and have enough left over to pay for an apartment since resident tuition was so cheap here :D

Holy crap that's a lot of text! Sorry guys!

4 years 41 weeks ago, 8:45 AM

daisycutter

daisycutter's picture

Rank:
General of the Army
Points:
5724
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
Arkansas

conscious during the discussion.

iyaoyas
4 years 41 weeks ago, 8:57 AM

daisycutter

daisycutter's picture

Rank:
General of the Army
Points:
5724
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
Arkansas

`

iyaoyas
4 years 41 weeks ago, 10:21 AM

Wolfrage

Wolfrage's picture

Rank:
Master Sergeant
Points:
17
Join Date:
Feb 2012
Location:
Derry, NH, United States

Thanks, Daisycutter! Glad to be here :D

4 years 41 weeks ago, 9:42 AM

leanneshu

leanneshu's picture

Rank:
Brigadier General
Points:
308
Join Date:
Dec 2011
Location:
Peoria, Arizona, United States
Wolfrage

Welcome! Great group of people here!

4 years 41 weeks ago, 5:57 PM

greg az

greg az's picture

Rank:
Secretary of Homeland Security
Points:
5873
Join Date:
Oct 2009
Location:
New York, NY, Ascension Island
Wolfrage.. thank you..

I'm sure the same concerns to come up.. and they should this site (and welcome to it!) is obviously "observed".. and frankly we're all both patriotic, and realistic enough to know that it should be. The general consensus here is that "not" monitoring our (or any gun/political site) would be naive at best..

Thanks for taking the time to fill us in, and again welcome aboard..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
4 years 41 weeks ago, 7:50 PM

Wolfrage

Wolfrage's picture

Rank:
Master Sergeant
Points:
17
Join Date:
Feb 2012
Location:
Derry, NH, United States

Thanks for the welcome, Greg! Looks like a great community and I look forward to browsing around more as I've already come across some good threads :D

Who's Online

Guns Lot Activity
Users
Currently Active Users: 799 (0 members and 799 guests)

Users Active within the last 24 hours
krunchnik, tallguy007, jf.chandler sr., Trebein282
Guns Lot Statistics
Stats Topics: 8,899, Comments: 163,329, Members: 23,517
Welcome our newest member: Hank6046

Recent Activity