Forums / Political & Legal / Obama administration will allow gays to serve in military openly

6 years 7 weeks ago, 10:12 PM

DEMO

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The Obama administration will change the policy of dont ask dont tell Jan 20th and allow gay soldiers, marines and Airmen to openly serve.I was serving when clinton began the dont ask dont tell thing and everyone was pissed.
My question to everyone: Does anyone care about gays openly serving? Gay spouses living in base housing?
I always fall back to the constitution preserving life liberty and pursuit of happiness. If happiness for you is sucking dick....none of my business nor the governments.
WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do
6 years 7 weeks ago, 7:21 AM

ssrs10

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Demo

Agreed, no matter how sick to my stomach it makes me. It's not my right to tell anyone else how they should live, unless their way of life infringes on my way of life/happiness.

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses
6 years 7 weeks ago, 1:22 PM

fordvg

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It does infringes on our rights. If they want to serve they can keep it in the quiet.

"WAR IS A RACKET, I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street, and for the Bankers." Major-General Smedley Darlington Butler USMC Ret. 2 time Medal of Honor winner.
6 years 7 weeks ago, 1:48 PM

clintlebo

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my ignorance

Please forgive me fordvg,
Will you please explain how someones lifestyle infringes on our rights? I am ignorant.

clint

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin & Hobbes)
6 years 7 weeks ago, 2:11 PM

fordvg

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clintiebo

The gay lifestyle is infringes on our rights. One it is wrong and a way to control the born rate. Your telling me I have to agree with it and I do not. If you think our health care peoblems are bad now, just wait and see how bad they will be if they say gay marrieds and the gay lifestyle is ok.

"WAR IS A RACKET, I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street, and for the Bankers." Major-General Smedley Darlington Butler USMC Ret. 2 time Medal of Honor winner.
6 years 7 weeks ago, 4:21 PM

clintlebo

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still confused

fordvg,
Although I do not agree with the lifestyle, I still can not see how it infringes on MY rights. I am not telling you you have to agree with them. This also means "they" do not have to agree with "us". The way in which your statement reads, it is as though "we" are infringing on "their" rights, because "we" do not want "them" to have the same opportunities as "we" have. The Constitution does not have a caveat curtailing homosexuals, Jews, or any other "minority" from enjoying the freedoms that are gauranteed to ALL Americans.

clint

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin & Hobbes)
6 years 7 weeks ago, 11:05 PM

fordvg

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Clint

If they want to live that kind of lifestyle that is there choose. The government does not have the right to push it on us and use our taxes dollars to say it is ok. This infrings on our rights with higher taxes to pay for health care. They have to same rights as we do to marry the oppisite sex as we do.

"WAR IS A RACKET, I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street, and for the Bankers." Major-General Smedley Darlington Butler USMC Ret. 2 time Medal of Honor winner.
6 years 7 weeks ago, 1:59 PM

samD

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Clint, I tend to agree

Lesbians have served faithfully and openly in the military, even when I was in and that was the early 60's. We as a whole were way less tolerant of anyone we suspected or knew that was a gay male. Sadly it happened and was wrong, but that was how it was in those days. I wish we were more like the Israeli Armed Forces, everyone serves and is combat trained. I think every able bodied man or woman at 18 yrs of age, should go through 6 months mandatory service, basic training and infantry training. Those that want to make it a career would earn it through testing. All others would go home to their lives and be ready in case of war or dire need.

6 years 7 weeks ago, 2:16 PM

LLE

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I believe the youth of this country who are mentally and physically qualified should be required to serve for 24 months, total, including basic. The maturing experience is enhanced by the challenges of a "real" set of responsibilities, and learning team work.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
6 years 7 weeks ago, 2:23 PM

fordvg

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about our young people having to serve like they do in Isreal. Would be good for them and find out ol Mom and Dad are not as bad as they thought they were.

"WAR IS A RACKET, I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street, and for the Bankers." Major-General Smedley Darlington Butler USMC Ret. 2 time Medal of Honor winner.
6 years 7 weeks ago, 2:29 PM

samD

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good point F350.

I like the 6 mos better, because we can at least basic train them. We can weed out the misfits and miscreants. They have a taste of military life and would more appreciate those that have chosen to serve. NO DEFERMENTS!
At 18 or until you graduate from High School. Those that don't graduate from HS go at 17 yrs old and spend 1 year in training. A little incentive to finish school. Your military record or lack thereof MUST go on any employment or School application. I am talking both men and women here.

6 years 7 weeks ago, 8:41 PM

jack010203

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i disagree with required time in the military, i am young and have not served, and believe it would have basically put my life on hold for 6-24mo as suggested above. It will also have a damaging effect on taking what you learn in HS to college. It sounds very attractive in theory, as it would straighten out a lot of idiots, but i do not think it would be piratical either how many more ppl would the military have to deal with? probably a rather large increase.

And on gays in the military, i personally do not care about how anyone lives there life. My concern is weather or not this will have an effect on the men who are serving in the military, homosexuality is a very emotional subject for some, and if it will cause problems with the majority of the soldiers, or make them uncomfortable, it should not be allowed. War is not the time to be PC and since the overwhelming majority of ppl are heterosexual, why not force a few homos to just shut up or stay out? Also if they are openly gay, even if it is allowed, i assume they will have some problems with other soldiers, just my guess

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." -Thomas Jefferson
6 years 7 weeks ago, 9:27 PM

LLE

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I am the resident pain-in-the-ass lecturer here, and I tell you and any other of our younger members this:

You are very fortunate to live and[I assume] be a citizen of the greatest country, however imperfect, ever to grace this planet. You enjoy a life style and an almost limitless set of opportunities that hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of people in the world would love to have. In fact, most of them would be glad to serve the military of the USA as part of the requirements for citizenship. "A damaging effect on taking what you learned in HS to college"!!?? You have no idea of what service to your country can do for your maturity and readyness for the challenges of college. The purpose of the proposal is NOT to "straighten out a lot of idiots". The purpose is to teach that "Freedom is not free". The purpose is to teach the younger generation that there is more to being a citizen of the USA than concern only with "ME-ME-ME". It was the sacrifices by many generations of Americans, some giving their very lives, to give you the opportunities you have. NOW IT IS YOUR TURN: 6 months to 2 years in the service of your country is nowhere near the sacrifices that have been made for you.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
6 years 7 weeks ago, 11:49 PM

BluesHarp

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Amen Brother

The statement, "Freedom isn't free" would be much more understood if young people were being taught what that all means. Our freedoms are carried on the backs of the men and women that fought for it. And I, for one, thank them for that gift that they chose to give to me. LLE, you hit dead center when you stated that the young people are only thinking about ME-ME-ME. They have everything handed to them on a silver platter. The best clothing, shoes, video game systems, top of the line toys, food, computers and educational opportunities. Just handed to them. They haven't earned any of this stuff, but they expect it. And we as adults have given it over, because we don't want little Johnny down the block to have more than our kid does. That would reflect badly on us. I am trying to break the cycle with our kid, but it ain't easy. Little Johnny is still getting his Playstation 3, Wii, Gamecube, X Box 360 and a ton of games so that he can sit his lazy little ass on the couch and expect more without earning any of it, while all the time, complaining about everything. And that is the majority of the young people. they expect something for nothing and get pissed if they don't get it. I think the military would do them all some good.

Go ahead punk, Make My Day!
6 years 6 weeks ago, 11:57 PM

TacDoc

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well jack, I am young also you can check my profile i'm 19. And I will say this high school in no way prepares you for college. I go to Texas Tech University and every year somewhere around 10,000 freshman enter every year, only about 4000 graduate every year... don't quote me on those figures but the truth is that high school prepares you to graduate high school, an 18 credit hour class load prepares you for college. Your point would be valid if schools would actually obey the No child left behind act, but they don't... I've studied the no child left behind act, and it's really not all that hard to accomplish what Bush was asking... but OH MY GOD that would require teachers to actually teach... like have a math teacher teaching math, in stead of a football coach... So unless you went to a private school with none of the regular public school distracts... high school is POINTLESS except to occupy your time till your of legal age to put your name on a loan and go to a real school.

I also think that mandatory service is a good thing, because I'm completely undiscipled for getting work done... like I have an exam coming up this week and i'm on here yapping about school. the military would teach me how to be a decent successful person... not a drunk frat boy who fails out after his first year in college.

On another note I cannot speak directly about serving in the military because I have not, but I have worked as a paramedic and firefighter through my last 3 years of high school, and i will tell you right now doing that prepared me for life on my own, without mommy holding my hand and learning pointless algebra problems... In fact if I hadn't been in a service like my ambulance company I would've never gotten the balls to go to college instead I'd probably be... well in the MILITARY...

and as far as your life being on hold, I'm a medical student, yeah life on hold ha. 6-24 months isn't much compared to 8 years + residency employment, or better yet to the 80-90 years you are on this planet. Again to quote everyone below me saying it's about service, it's not about you it's about serving others.

Doc
6 years 6 weeks ago, 1:03 AM

LLE

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Keep on keepin' on. I predict great things for you. Study hard, get your MD, and help people. You will be blessed.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
6 years 7 weeks ago, 8:50 PM

thegatesofzion

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Gays in the military

You have to remember, the people who volunteer to serve our country while defending our country are doing so for a variety of reasons, but one of those reasons is probably not "to find a homosexual partner".

Remember that these brave volunteers are going into harms way, and the last thing they need to worry about is some mentally deranged collegue seeking their affection on the battlefield.

That just should not even be an issue. These brave men and women have already sacrificed so much that they don't need the added burden of having to avoid one of their own for fear that they will be sexually harassed by a person of the same sex.

Sincerely,

Keith Boynton, Overseer
The Gates of Zion

6 years 7 weeks ago, 9:52 PM

Anonymous

i wouldnt mind a six month stint.it would shape up this body of cold steel and sex appeal, not only that but i would learn combat tactics with which i could use to protect my family and beliefs.

6 years 6 weeks ago, 1:08 AM

LLE

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basic, you would be a shadow of your former self, and a lean, mean fightin' machine, and you wouldn't be able to fight the women off---very dangerous when you are married, but fun, nevertheless.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
6 years 7 weeks ago, 10:25 PM

DEMO

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Again- My service time is over. I would not have to serve gays. You are right to be concerned- you have to deal with this shit. I can not walk the walk and would feel the same way if I was in. I can see the gays being protected people. Women were protected when I was in. Promotion points affirmative action style issues. Would gays become a protected people with forced promotions, special treatments? Sure.
We had one female that bitched, complained and was useless. She was promoted. She actually had a lifting waiver. We would have to carry her tool box to the line. When we had to go to CUTS training, she was waived.
Now the Marine women we trained with were different- they pulled their weight.
All I am saying is that in a perfect world where our political correctness did not mean special treatment creating a hostile environment, I would not mind serving with anyone.
But sadly, I have seen affirmative action style political correctness destroy unit morale. I have seen reverse descrimination over and over again. If you want examples let me know........

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6 years 7 weeks ago, 11:07 PM

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I don't know about the other services, but basic training in the Marine Corps is well, rather close. I know that there may have been gay people in when I was in, but honestly i did not know it at that time. It was not allowed then at all. there is absolutely no privacy. I mean none. Not in the showers, not the toilets, undressing, I mean nothing.. The Marine Corps is attempting to create Marines out of civilians. Thats it. That is why Women Marines do not train with male Marines. Both male and female recruits need their full concentration in order to pass and become Marines. Any distraction is to be avoided. Most folks don't make it as it is. People wanting to sleep with each other would not be condusive in my opinion, which is the reason male and female recruits train isoloated from one another. I would consider separate training for gay individuals where we could define their sexual preference and not place them with those that they may be sexually attracted to or subject them to unwanted actions that would hinder their training. If they are to become Marines, they do not need any distraction of that type. Marines have been made this way for along time. I do not think my beloved Marine Corp needs improvement.

6 years 7 weeks ago, 11:23 PM

fordvg

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Demo

Gays should not be protected just because they are gay. I do understand about a waiver to protect someone, that is injury to keep them from getting hurt worst.
I have a serve-connected injury that I got when I was in the Marine's. They made my life hell, and had me do things I was not to do, and now the injury that should have gotten better and healed did not. I have the injury to this day, 23 years later. If I was given the time to heal, I could have done my 4 years. Now I have to live with an injury that I will have the rest of my life, because of some butt holes having me do things to hurt me instead of helping me.

"WAR IS A RACKET, I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street, and for the Bankers." Major-General Smedley Darlington Butler USMC Ret. 2 time Medal of Honor winner.
6 years 7 weeks ago, 11:28 PM

runawaygun762

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I am a Noncommissioned Officer in the army and I see the ridiculous number of slackers and turds we have in an all volunteer army. These are people who voluntarily joined, who should have known the risks vs rewards of military service, and who still go AWOL or seem surprised that they have to deploy even though OEF/OIF is in the news daily. Israel has a successful mandatory service system because they are under daily threat of being pushed into the sea by hostile countries all around them. The Israelis know their military is actually defending their nation and the norms in that society demonstrate that. Mandatory service here is not a good idea. As for gays in the military, I have been under fire, I have hurt people badly, I have seen the ugly side of what humans do to each other, and I can tell you that if I am lying in the desert sand with my intestines hanging out of my body, I don't give a shit what kind of lifestyle my fellow servicemember leads when he or she is risking their ass to come pull my straight ass out of harm's way. They could be dressed in a pink tutu with a 10 inch neon green dildo hanging out of their ass and I damned sure ain't going to refuse their assistance to wait for a straight guy or girl to come over.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
6 years 7 weeks ago, 12:50 AM

LLE

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understand your logic. It sounds as though you are saying that MANDATORY service is not a good idea because VOLUNTARY service is not a good idea.

You certainly have an understanding of the Israeli philosophy and policy, however, while you make the case for them, you have not made the case for your opening statement that mandatory service "is a bad idea" for us, except to have said it one more time.

We are no less under an existential threat by enemies who would love to destroy our society, and take over our country. The major difference between Israel's situation and ours is the relative immediacy, strength and proximity of their threats, versus their limited resources to deter their own destruction. Our threats are gaining immediacy and strength, even though relatively remote, but our trump is one of the the strongest, best trained and best equipped militaries and almost unlimited resources and ability to deter our destruction.
In my view, World War III began a long time ago, and we need to realize that. A mandatory service system can do a lot of things for us, none the least of which is to train and have ready the manpower necessary for all out modern warfare, to mature our youth, and to send a clear message to our enemies that we are far from being asleep as we were at the beginning of WWII.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
6 years 6 weeks ago, 3:34 AM

BluesHarp

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LLE, you and I

are in complete agreement. The military is a great place for a young person to get some dicipline, learn a trade, develop teamwork and then they get to blast our enemies to Kingdom Come and blow some shit up. Sounds like a good deal to me.

Go ahead punk, Make My Day!
6 years 6 weeks ago, 2:57 AM

Jane

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Gays and you.

They're secretly going to seduce their way up to the pentagon and then launch a tactical nuke at countries with poor taste.

Humor aside.

America, in its history, has many moments of disenfranchised minorities voluntarily coming to its defense. From the blacks, to the gays, and even the American Indians. And, now, homosexuals of all calibers are able to fight for their country without fear of being denied that opportunity simply because they don't find the other gender terribly attractive.

6 years 6 weeks ago, 3:29 AM

Pkato

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Just my opinion

Open homosexual in the military is not the same as it is in civilian life...not close really. Whether you agree with this lifestyle or not, it could pose problems and if a slippery slope argument ever held any water...it would, in my opinion hold water here. I am sure I have served next to some homosexuals in my 26 years of service. But, having gay marriages for instance would be problematic for military in many circumstances: Overseas (some locations-especially middleast), from state to state-how would that work? I mean, you are stationed in Massachusetts get married, but then 1 year later you get orders to Bahrain (then what) We then are forcing Bahrain (a more moderate muslim country, but I am not sure how they would take that). Would we hide the fact this couple is married (same sex)? I don't know...just bringing it up. Plus, being in a a combat environment with openly gay compatriots...? Well, again not sure this is a great idea, nor do I know if it will be a disastrous one...but it something to think about. I will tell you this, while I was in, there were a lot of people I thought were gay...were they? I don't know for sure and part of the reason I didn't know was the policy Clinton put in place (Don't Ask Don't Tell)...honestly, I think that policy has done well in the service. It's a tough thing really...but, one thing I know for sure and it was alluded to above. The military is not a great place for social experiments...lives are on the line and PC experiments are really not condusive to the environment.

As far as mandatory military service...well, a good point was made above, the all-voluntary military has served us well, so why change that. Now, once again it might do a lot of young people a lot of good to go into the military, but the military is not a place to rehabilitate questionable characters...it is a place to train men to fight and win our wars, PERIOD.
Mandatory service in another type of organization, which closely follows what the military does, could be an option, and make that mandatory...but the military. Something could be setup as a stepping stone into the US military...but whatever. My thoughts!

Patrolman Kato
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They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone
under independence. -- George Washington
6 years 6 weeks ago, 8:39 AM

LLE

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If we really kept that philosophy over the growth and development of this nation, we still would be driving horses pulling carriages, with one of the biggest feeder industries being buggy whips. We have been transitioning from a culture of "if it 'ain't broke', don't fix it", to "if it 'ain't broke', improve it and continue to improve it", so that no one can surpass us.

I will repeat: my proposal for mandatory military service DOES NOT-DOES NOT-DOES NOT include the purpose of "rehabilitating questionable characters". It IS a place to train men and women to be ready to fight and win our wars, and in so doing, also give them the kind of maturity, responsibility and experience that they most probably would otherwise not have obtained elsewhere, in the same time period of their lives. It is NOT a place for social experimentation.

The world is a rapidly changing environment, with ever developing threats to the safety and survival of our nation. To survive and deal with this environment, we must be "ready", flexible and creative about staying ahead of these emerging threats. Without readyness and flexibility, creativity means very little. Readyness means that a growing piece of our GNP will have to be devoted to the military, and a significant amount of that must be devoted to active and RESERVE staffing/equiping, as new tactics and strategies are developed.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
6 years 6 weeks ago, 11:14 AM

Shake N Bake

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Just my thoughts

Gays in the Military, it has already been mentioned but as for how this infringes on my rights, from a civilian stand point this will cost you the tax payer more, if that is not a issue for you fine. From a military stand point, military service is not go to work come home do it again tomorrow. We find ourselves in close quarters (already mentioned) but just thank how much more money and time will it take to built a third and even forth shower bathroom and other facilities so I will not have my rights infringed upon by forcing me to shower, Shit, and shave with some one that may be sexually attracted to me (not really me I am a pretty ugly guy). I know people will say I am a homophobic or some shit but that’s ok I am very secure in my manhood but if it’s ok to have guys and strengths in the same shower why not men and women. Some Armies have co-ed showers and bath facilities. Are we ready to go there, most male soldiers might not care but can you hear the outcry for the fairer sex? I don’t care if your guy or straight really if that’s your thing fine. But if it will interfere with the operation of a military unit for whatever reason, it will cost live in a combat zone.

Some families have long histories of tending to the tree of liberty, others have a long history of living in its shade.
6 years 6 weeks ago, 11:27 AM

samD

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and I believe they condone homosexualism. They have a completely different attitude about sex than some of the up tight fundamentalist conservatives do. On their kibutzes (sp) coedism (a word?) is started almost at birth. So naked bodies are the norm not the exception. I know why don't we make the gay soldiers wear PINK uniforms? (joke) I don't know if there is a rational answer to the situation, but if they are physically and mentally fit to serve then so be it!

6 years 6 weeks ago, 11:33 AM

Ebear

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question

why, don't we empty out our prisons and put them all at the frontlines??? male , female, who cares. put Sirhan Sirhan up front with blanks.

...check... G-AZ
6 years 6 weeks ago, 11:46 AM

ssrs10

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ebear

Would be nice wouldn't it?

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses
6 years 6 weeks ago, 11:51 AM

Ebear

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well

I mean it! why send good people into danger first. It would literally kill two birds with one stone.Then you can take the money that we put into keeping prisoners happy and put into more jobs and strip clubs.

...check... G-AZ
6 years 6 weeks ago, 11:54 AM

clintlebo

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liquor and whores

I'll drink to that ebear

clint

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin & Hobbes)
6 years 6 weeks ago, 11:56 AM

Dr.angusmd21

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ebear. . . .

a friend of mine went to prison for drunk driving and i visited him there on weekends. you would be amazed at the number of young men currently incarcerated who would gladly fight for this country who made the wrong choice at 17 -18 -19 and if given another chance would gladly take a gun and take someones place in combat.

2850 fps
6 years 6 weeks ago, 7:53 PM

DEMO

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That what saved me from being a dope head like the rest of my friends from high school. Joining the military provided me with a Mentor -Gunery Sgt Williams. The guny was a big black wieght lifter who gave me mentoring- I am talking about life changing guidance. I had no mom, no dad. I had a shit attitude about never making anything of myself. He would talk to me about things like college, family and church. I once told him that college was for rich kids and someone like me could not do it.
Guny made a point that no matter how bad you had it, you could adapt and overcome to have a good family, good education and great life so your children had a happy life.
This advice changed my life and If I had not joined the military I would be a piece of shit just like my parents.
His main point was to break the chain of the family tradition. Priceless life lesson for me.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do
6 years 6 weeks ago, 12:00 PM

ssrs10

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OR

You could just drop all of them out of planes......

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses
6 years 6 weeks ago, 12:03 PM

Ebear

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YUP

WITH C-4 STRAPPED TO THIER CHESTS......FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE....LIKE ISREAL

...check... G-AZ
6 years 6 weeks ago, 12:01 PM

Ebear

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DR

NOT JUST THE ONES WHO WOULD VOLENTEER, BUT ALL THE MURDER'S RAPISTS WHITE COLLAR CRTME TOO. I FEEL THAT SHOULD ALWAYS BE AN OPTION OF THE COURT DURING WAR-TIME.NO BARGAINING NO PLEAS JUST SEND THEM OVER AND IF THE GET 10 YEARS THEY HAVE TO SPEND 3/4'S OF THERE SENTANCE FIGHTING FOR THIER RIGHT TO BE A FREE AMERICAN AGAIN.

...check... G-AZ
6 years 6 weeks ago, 12:04 PM

ssrs10

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OR

You could just drop them out of planes onto the enemy, you know all the pedophiles and such.... let them think about their lives for about 10 to 20 seconds and then SPLAT!

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses
6 years 6 weeks ago, 12:05 PM

ssrs10

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haha

haha

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses
6 years 6 weeks ago, 12:05 PM

ssrs10

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...

They deserve whatever comes to them, in my opinion.... I like the C-4 idea too

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses
6 years 6 weeks ago, 12:24 PM

Dr.angusmd21

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then i guess

this could get into what about the wrongly accused. but it used to be an option when youths got into trouble army or jail. . . .should be still an option.

2850 fps
6 years 6 weeks ago, 12:29 PM

Ebear

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YEAH

But, without the pay.meals ,and equipment would be supplied, but no pay.Then if the survive thier sentence time, they would have the option of re-enlisting at thier current rank with that pay .

...check... G-AZ
6 years 6 weeks ago, 12:30 PM

ssrs10

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....

Why give them rank?

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses
6 years 6 weeks ago, 12:43 PM

Ebear

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insentive

give them some kind of light at the end of the tunnel....like the dirty dozen......starring.Trini Lopez

...check... G-AZ
6 years 6 weeks ago, 12:46 PM

ssrs10

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ebear

Is samD tagging along behind her?

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses
6 years 6 weeks ago, 12:48 PM

Dr.angusmd21

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its a moot point

but you are right. once the debt is paid then give them an option to re-up

2850 fps
6 years 6 weeks ago, 12:48 PM

Ebear

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lol

like a puppydog

...check... G-AZ
6 years 6 weeks ago, 12:51 PM

ssrs10

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Yup haha jk

Yup haha jk

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses
6 years 6 weeks ago, 12:58 PM

runawaygun762

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We already have enough problems with people who have a "fuck it" attitude in this all-volunteer army. If we had a mandatory service, the problem would be even worse. Our situation is very different from Israel's and the biggest difference is a point you brought up, which is relative immediacy. Do you have any idea how the public in this nation would react if we had bombings on our public transportation system like Israel? No one would ride the bus. The Israelis have a different culture, one that honors the warrior class because of the obvious need for them. We are under daily threat of attack from our enemies, but the American public is insulated from that reality. A color-code warning system and talking-head politician is not going to make people willing to change their views enough to even come close to the Israeli system. I don't know what kind of experience you got as a radar tech sky watcher, but I have learned a very valuable lesson during my time in the army, and that lesson is that not everyone has what it takes to succeed in the military lifestyle, and forcing people to do a dangerous job because you want them to develop character or whatever is an asinine proposal. I guess it's a good thing we live in a nation where people don't have to join the military or demonstrate proficiency to exercise a right (yep, I brought it up again). Perhaps you would be more comfortable living in a police state where controlling people's lives is a basis for the government. I hear China is nice this time of year. Too far left for you, LLE? Try Korea. The southern portion should be more suitable. Ah who am I kidding? Better stay here where old guys can sit around telling people how society should be. It's nice, isn't it? You're free to spout your opinion and we're free to note it and keep going.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
6 years 6 weeks ago, 1:50 PM

LLE

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All I read was a bunch of mostly off point language and flight of ideas, almost approximating mental masturbation.

I am not at all impressed with your claimed clairvoyance. Since you want us to believe you can predict the future, how about telling us what is going to happen in the first 100 days of Obama's administration, or when the Israelis are launching on Iran, or when the North Koreans are going to make their next shipment to Syria, or something equally important. Then, if your predictions are correct, we can probably believe your prediction about how much worse a mandatory service military would be. Otherwise it is only an opinion, like mine and others who have posted on the subject.
My military experience is irrelevant to this discussion, other than my observation of what we were able to do with "draftees"--they made good soldiers. Did they all succeed? I doubt that any one of us have succeeded at everything we have tried, depending upon the definition of that term. That does not mean that the system that provided the opportunity is somehow not valid.
Could you, for the sake of better understanding, define for us what you mean by an "assinine proposal"? And could you also explain how controlling peoples' rights have anything to do with the Constitutional language, "provide for the common defense"?
At the risk of sounding heroic, if it were not for us "old guys" you would probably be speaking German, Japanese or Russian, if your parents had been permitted to procreate.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
6 years 6 weeks ago, 1:59 PM

clintlebo

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I wish my parents were allowed to procreate...

At the risk of sounding heroic, if it wasn't for us young guys, we would probably not have Gunslot or the internet...

hijack...hijack...clint hijacked a thread....

clint

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin & Hobbes)
6 years 6 weeks ago, 2:09 PM

LLE

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however, I do not wish to disturb Mr. samD. Pissing contest is hereby averted.
Actually, your claim is probably correct, even though you did a no-no.

Shame-Shame.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
6 years 6 weeks ago, 1:53 PM

Ebear

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UH OHH

LETS GET READY TO RUMBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

...check... G-AZ
6 years 6 weeks ago, 1:54 PM

samD

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the pissing contest begins anew.

6 years 6 weeks ago, 1:55 PM

ssrs10

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...

RUN RUN RUN RUNAWAYGUN!

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses
6 years 6 weeks ago, 1:56 PM

samD

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LOL

6 years 6 weeks ago, 6:32 PM

runawaygun762

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Perhaps you are just too smart, or maybe you like to convolute the subject with rantings to amuse yourself, whatever. I did not claim to be clairvoyant anymore than anyone else who expresses what they think the future holds. My concern is based on my experience of 13 years in the army, so if anything, it would be an educated guess. Apparently you cannot understand this concept. So, in order to get back to what I like to do, which is post in a gun related forum, and to spare your fingers the multitude of paper cuts from your well-used thesaurus, this will be my last post on this subject and I will word it so that even a crotchety old codger like you can understand. Here we go, ready? I think it would be bad to have mandatory service. That there is my opinion. If someone don't agree with my opinion, tough. It's my opinion, it probably stinks just like my asshole after a good post-sushi-and-kimchi dump, but there it is. And by the way, LLE, if it wasn't for us "young guys", you would have no one to brag to about your mediocre exploits watching the skies.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
6 years 6 weeks ago, 7:05 PM

LLE

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that sounds plenty stinky, by the way. You had not clarified before that it was indeed your opinion, hence my natural inclination to believe you were saying that you were clairvoyant. You have proven only one thing. You are a very opinionated young man, without much if any back-up for your opinions.

What is a thesaurus?.......Oh, maybe a thin dinosaur, hence paper cuts?

As to mediocre exploits, obviously you know nothing about AAA&Guided Missiles; our job was clearing the skies, not watching it. Try taking down a strafing aircraft, while using the quad 50 mount with your ass hanging out. That would give you a new definition for the word mediocre. We old guys don't have to brag, but from time to time we do have fun reminiscing about how much adrenalin we could get flowing.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
6 years 6 weeks ago, 9:35 PM

Pkato

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They are not really the ideal comparison to our situation...while we fight a common enemy, share tactics and weapons, their situation is totally different...
1. They are totally outnumbered
2. Their population is very small (in comparison)
3. They are virtually surrounded by people who actively fight for their annhilation/or at the very least clandestinely support those who are fighting for their demise.
4. They really don't have a choice in the matter...in a way.

Patrolman Kato
Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself.
They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone
under independence. -- George Washington
6 years 6 weeks ago, 10:37 PM

Pkato

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another option

Instead of having military folks do such jobs as cooks, administration, weather, etc, etc, etc...why not train all military to fight, train to fight, fight, fight, fight and leave those other jobs, at least back in the US at the very least up to civilian contractors?

Patrolman Kato
Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself.
They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone
under independence. -- George Washington
6 years 6 weeks ago, 11:31 PM

LLE

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but IMO, it would not work too well in a combat zone. It might be worth a try on an experimental basis. It would seem to me that the disparity in pay and benefits between the troops and the contractor personnel would stimulate a good deal of resentment on the part of the troops. If that did occur, it would be a very undesirable outcome.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
6 years 6 weeks ago, 9:51 PM

wyattcl

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Gays in the military? Sexuality should not be a factor as long as they pull their own weight, be a soldier and don't attempt to influence others into their lifestyles. I don't approve of the gay lifestyle. want nothing to do with it but that is their own thing.
Mandatory service? Hell yes. I hate to say it, but the youth of America are growing lazier by the day. There is no discipline in todays society. If you spank you child for doing wrong then you can be arrested for child abuse.
Young adults have it way to easy. They should have to serve, learn some discipline and learn to be a good member of society. My daughter is eight years old, she says please and thank you, We went to school the other day and I heard a little boy tell his mother to shut the fuck up. Mom didn't say a word to him and he went on his merry way.
Kids need disciplinre to make them a productive member of society. America's youth need to serve to be productive members.
Requiring a six month tour would be good for them and great for America. Should also require readiness training one weekend every 90 days for 2 years, then every six monthes for two years. By this time they should be adults,
well enough of my ranting, just though I would throw in my two cents worth.

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." Thomas Jefferson
4 years 14 weeks ago, 10:19 PM

Cillyvilian

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I am 19 years old. I was a boy scout, I attended Christ Lutheran Church, I worked ass through bullshit government schools, and now this old man is yelling at me from his high horse! Like hell will I be forced into a military indoctrination camp, just to satisfy the old men in their rockers.

I know what hard work is, and I have dreams of success. Send the drug addicts, the homeless bums, and the gang members to the military, but my life should not be in the hands of mentally ill politicians. I attended school at my parents demand, and I am attending college at my own ambition, Obamacare aside, I am currently free. Government induced labor will not solve jack, and will only take my future children's freedom away.

4 years 14 weeks ago, 10:10 PM

Cillyvilian

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no preversions now!

Listen, this is the goddamn MILITARY. Lives are on the line! Save the politically correct BS for the DMV. As far as gays in the military go, it should be up to the individual battalion commanders whether such a policy would be beneficial or not. If they pass the physical tests, the drug tests, and the mental evaluation, I say go for it.

But to say that gays need to have protected minority status, where everyone else is forced to tiptoe around them and watch their language. Nuts to that!

4 years 14 weeks ago, 10:24 PM

luckybychoice

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i thought only Runs

argued with himself......

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
4 years 8 weeks ago, 12:18 AM

Ishootdaily

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Hehh

luckybychoice wrote:
i thought only Runs argued with himself......

and does run's *also* mindlessly contradict himself?

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
4 years 14 weeks ago, 10:44 PM

greg az

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Yep your young alright.. have a bit of an issue with your description of the military as and i'll quote you here "Send the drug addicts, the homeless bums, and the gang members to the military" but not you right..

This is just so wrong, and on so many levels that i don't know where to start.. i enlisted as opposed to getting drafted back in the mid 60's.. I question if that war was worth the sacrifice in (hate these phrase of the months but...) blood and treasure.. I also question whats going on right now in Afghanistan.. Have some REAL serious questions about it.. but i know this..

Those who are there, those who are in the military are worth one hell of a lot more respect than the way you typify them. "homeless bums, and drug addicts" my ass.. These are quality young men and women that are putting thier life at risk so you can pontificate about what low lifes they are.. Seems you have some growing up to do.. Hope you appreciate what those in the military.. Those old men in rockers you talk about.. what they have done for you..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
4 years 14 weeks ago, 10:54 PM

Cillyvilian

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You misunderstand me. I said, "Send the drug addicts, the homeless bums, and the gang members to the military" TO BE STRAITENED OUT. Just as you were saying all young people should go there to be straitened out! My friends are in the service, there is no way I could mean what you implied!

4 years 14 weeks ago, 11:08 PM

greg az

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my apologies then..

Yes i read your intro since i posted that.. we geezers go off half cocked (no geezer penis jokes please, thier way to easy) sometimes.. start over.. welcome to the site...

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
4 years 8 weeks ago, 11:40 PM

jatchannel

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Gays in the military

Just weighing in here...I think anyone who is capable of performing the duties should be allowed to serve regardless of their sexual orientation. Yes, sometimes military people must shower together or be quite physically close to one another, but I'm sure gay service members are professional enough not to conduct themselves inappropriately with others in their unit. Personally, I'm delighted to see the repeal of DADT because it shows--once again--that America is simply doing the right thing by allowing gays to serve openly and with honor. Just my humble, liberal, opinion. =)

4 years 8 weeks ago, 11:53 PM

CharlesW

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Give them a second chance

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
4 years 8 weeks ago, 11:58 PM

Ishootdaily

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Gays in the military

Being Gay does not dictate being a bleeding idiot....

I am far from Liberal, but think enough for myself to understand that Sexual Identity does not dictate qualifications or professionalism....

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
4 years 8 weeks ago, 1:32 PM

rougesniper

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gays

im in the military and we had 2 gay guys in basic so 1 day we all are takeing showers and 1 guy starts to give the other guy a bj in the showers with every1 around needles to say they didnt get to far if you know what i meen gays can do what they want but for them to be open about it in the military is not ok

4 years 8 weeks ago, 12:24 AM

Ishootdaily

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Being openly Gay isn't remotely related to handing out BJ's in a public shower...

Neither is being openly heterosexual about sexual relations in public places...

Though the lines would definitely form for definitively different reasons in that shower given either situation taking place... LOL

Being openly Gay would mean they do not have to hide their relationships for fear of retaliation buy the military.

As far as performing public sex acts goes, no one should play that game unless they are ready for the consequences, Legal or otherwise.

Someone who happens to be gay can throw bullets and catch them just as well as any other and if they are willing to do so then they should be allowed to do so.

If I was still in I would be more pissed at the thought of all the able bodied who sluffed it off on others to serve so they can hang out, drink, chase split-tail and talk big and how we need to be fighting terrorism....

I just thought about how we used to go down to Coffee Pot Bayou at night. Drink some beers and toss the fags off the sea wall into the bay...

I guess time, life and living it lends to a different perspective down the road.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
4 years 8 weeks ago, 2:12 PM

luckybychoice

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ass whippin time

but i suppose that would be a hate crime now,unless you explained that it wasn't about the act itself but the stupidity,i think stupid people should experience pain when stupid is in full force.

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
4 years 8 weeks ago, 4:52 PM

CharlesW

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accidents happen

especially when well planed

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
4 years 8 weeks ago, 8:02 AM

sather86

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just my opinion on the

just my opinion on the matter,

i am an 11B in the U.S. Army, currently serving in Afghanistan. i personally have no problem with what two individuals do, be they gay or heterosexual, but i highly disagree with the appeal of the dodt policy, as do all of the members of my squad.

it probably wouldn't be such a bad thing if they were fobbits and never went on missions, but for the extent of time that my team is out and about and the proximity that we have to each other, would not allow for a gay soldier to serve with us. it would just cause tension within my team and lead to a breakdown in teamwork and communication. we can't have that, period.

before you know, the EO rules would change, as well, allowing women to serve in combat arms MOS's and SOC units. i am not saying that women could not equally perform the duties and tasks required by the male members, but it would be alot harder for them and it would be a significant distraction for the soldiers, just as having to wonder if their battle-buddy is gazing at them everytime they bend over.

these are just my opinions.

4 years 8 weeks ago, 12:47 PM

HappinessIsaWarmGun

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Draft

Bring back the draft, let all have a good time.

4 years 8 weeks ago, 8:11 AM

runawaygun762

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Richland, MO, United States

The idea of combat arms units is outdated. People of all MOS are rolling out on mission nowadays and getting hit. My gunner on my last deployment was a female and she was more ready to drop the hammer than a lot of the males. As far as worrying about having a gay guy in the squad, if that kind of shit destroys your teamwork, your squad leader probably needs to work a bit harder. Fact is, if you're hit and your intestines are looping out of your abdomen, you aren't going to give a shit what color, gender, race, or sexual orientation that soldier is who risks his or her ass to come save yours.

As for gays being flamboyant and over the top, that's too easy. Making a sexual harrassment complaint to get the shitbags chaptered works just as easily for men as it does women. AR 600-20, chapter 6 and 7 applies for everybody and can work pretty well if you know how to use it. As an example, if someone files a formal sexual harrassment complaint here in GTMO, it will be on the US Army South CG's desk within 72 hrs. The army takes that shit seriously when someone uses the formal channels, and that goes for anyone. You get hit on by a guy, or hear a guy talk about how much he loves sucking cock, tell him to stop one time and the next time you hear it, file a formal complaint. Won't be long before he's out the door.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
4 years 8 weeks ago, 10:29 AM

sather86

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well i'm sure a female could be a gunner, i've seen them do it with MP units. fact is, in bang-bang land, we don't have females to do any of our jobs for us. we have boys that are more ready to drop the hammer than any pog or female in any other MOS and do so on a daily basis and that's the way we like it. there are reasons why females aren't allowed to participate in combat arms MOS'.

no, the idea of the combat arms MOS is not outdated, the non-combat arms mos' are just running convoy and arent involved in any direct actions. they arent stopping to patrol a villiage. they dont go to investigate the possibility of a hvt being in a certain area. they dont train afghan national army.. and the list goes on and on.

as far as my team leader is concerned, in only the 5 months of this deployment and already in the triple digit amount of missions, we have not lost one single soldier. so i would say he is doing a damn fine job. if he doesnt like gays being in his fire-team, that does not represent him as a bad leader. i really cant say more than i said in my last post about gays in the military, specifically combat arms, so i will leave it at that.

btw, no offense intended at all. just a friendly debate.

4 years 8 weeks ago, 10:39 AM

runawaygun762

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allows me a different view. I did my first five years as an 11B in Ft Campbell. I'm an MP now and have done three tours in Iraq (different than Afghanistan to be sure), but have participated in both planned and hasty raids, cordon and searches, city patrols, EOD escort, route reconnaisance, route clearance, route security, PSD, convoy escort, detainee ops, and both PTT and MiTT. Once an element goes outside the wire, they are behind enemy lines. I've had more than one "Glad you guys were there" from PLs and PSGs of infantry units because of how weapons-heavy we roll.

Now, do I believe females should be allowed in the infantry? Absolutely not. But females are a different issue than gays. If someone else wants to come in and give other soldiers some room to take a break from deployments for a bit, good.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
3 years 51 weeks ago, 8:32 PM

jay sedler

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the great thing about america is we dont have to agree or atleast we arnt suposed to have to for the country to keep going.life liberty and the persuit of happyness...we all have those rights if gays persuit of happyness is the persuit of a penis who am i to argue?i actualy think gays are treated unfairly no marage no ask no tell...ok so marage is between man and woman,they should get somthing else and not cry about the word its called.gays in the military,sure,but why should str8 guys n girls have to worry about being scoped out in the shower or whatever by a member of the same sex that can openly say they are gay?at what point would harasment come into play?str8 guys and girls dont shower and bunk together right?in my opinion and i think this is constitutionaly correct and as fair as you can be is you can be gay,and be gay openly,but the rest of the world dosnt have to cater to you.life aint fair and it never will be!

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
3 years 51 weeks ago, 11:44 PM

RandyMc

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Just my opinion

Let me say it this way. I agree with the idea of mandatory service. As was stated earlier by others, it's a good way for the younger generation to get some discipline. Personally, I like the 24 month idea but would add to it this way: 24 months mandatory active service, 24 months active reserve status. I would not restrict the branch of service. The individual could choose their branch or it could be a lottery system where everyone at the MEPPS station draws a number (say out of a hat). 25 to the Army, 25 to the Navy, 25 to the Air Force, and 25 to the Marines. During their 24 months of reserve time, they could opt to either go to college or to work. Or if they wanted to continue service but wanted to transfer to the Coast Guard that too would be acceptable (based on disciplinary records). I don't think that 2-6 months of basic and AIT/A-school is long enough to teach them team work. They need to experience the Fleet/Field life to learn team work. They also need to learn (again as stated earlier) that Freedom really isn't free! They don't learn it in High School or for the most part in college. I realized in my time in the service that Mathematics was an everyday part of life. I also learned that History also had its place, english did too. I learned that in order to be a productive part of society that you have to learn to work with people you may not like or agree with, but the job still had to get done.

On the matter of education, again this is my opinion, but instead of having a football coach with a bachelor's degree in PE or Education, he/she should have a real subject that they teach and the athelitics is secondary. I believe that the kids in school need PE, and even sports to keep in shape at least to some degree but academics should come first. I believed in the "No Child left behind" idea until I saw it implemented. In Texas, they left the California Achievement Tests and went to what they called the TAKS test. Now the teachers teach students how to pass the TAKS test, but not necessarily the meat of the subjects. When I was in High School, the teachers made out their lesson plan and taught according to their plan. Now (as I understand it at least) the plan is handed to them and they are not allowed to deviate from it very much. I may be wrong on that but that is what I understand. They are not taught how to find the square root of a number and I'm not sure that they are even taught what a square root is. Most kids today can barely spell their own names when they get to High School much less be able to count change back to you in a way that they know (and you know) you got the right change (the cash register tells them how much to hand you). I don't think many of them can balance a checkbook much less a ledger. I could do both before I graduated, and could balance a checkbook before I was in High School. Yes they get Algebra and supposedly English and History, but what about Civics, Speech, Earth Science, Biology, Chemistry, typing, and the other classes we took? Does Civics still teach the constitution? Apparently not as most kids can't tell you what the "Bill of Rights" is or where it comes from. They know that they have the right to free speech but I don't believe they know why, nor do they understand how to use it. Free speech is actually granted to "the media" not to the individual under the Constitution. I have a right to have my opinion, but that doesn't necessarily mean that I have the right to force you to hear it, nor can I force you to agree with it! Too many think that everyone should agree with their opinion of life and how things should be. Several years ago, the courts had the option of offering jail time or military time for minor offenses. If this were used correctly, it could be a great tool, but it could also be a nightmare if not used correctly.

As stated by someone else (runawayguns, I think), If I'm laying there on the battlefield (or the deck of a ship) with my guts hanging out, I really don't care what the sexual orientation of the person who risks their neck to get me out is. They can be wearing a fucia pink tutu with a 12" dildo hanging out of an orifice for all I care, just get me the hell to safety. If they are gay, so be it, but don't expect me to agree with your CHOICE of lifestyle. The military is not a place for political correctness, it's a place for learning how be a productive member of a team. If you are gay, fine, but be a TEAM player FIRST! I wouldn't want to serve with my wife/girlfriend anymore than I would want to serve with a pair of gay lovers! If I am emotionally/sexually involved with someone I serve with, it would be a distraction. A distraction that could cost another team member his/her life! It is my opinion that marriage is between a MAN and a WOMAN, and I don't think the Military honors "significant other" (whether it is hetrosexually or homosexually) under the base housing plan, so no, I don't think that gay's should be allowed to live in base housing.

I don't agree with gays being granted special or minority "status" (in the military or the civilian arena either one) as that leads to affirmative action. I think that affirmative action had its place at one time but has been manipulated well beyond its intended purposes. Today, it is a method by which certain people are advanced beyond their abilities due to their status as a minority. I am a "Native American!" I was born in the United States of America to American citizens. I have some American Indian heritage, Scots-Irish and probably a mix of other cultures. I don't believe in "African-Americans, "Mexican-Americans," "German-Americans," or any other hyphenated Americans. You are either a Native American or Naturalized American. You may or may not be an Immigrant. If you are, I hope that you are a LEGAL immigrant regardless of what country you came from! But if you don't want to conform to the U. S. and become a part of this country, go back to the country you came from. I have no problem with you and your kids speaking the language of the country you came from, but I think you should learn English here as I should have to learn French, Spanish, German, Italian, Russian, Chinese or Japanese, if I were going to live in those countries.

This is just my opinion and it is like all other opinions: "Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and they ALL stink!" I would like for you to agree with my opinion, but I really don't expect you to. I don't have the RIGHT to force you to like it, and you don't have the RIGHT to try to force me to change it.

Freedom ain't Free, so thank a Veteran when you see one. They are the ones who have protected the freedoms that you enjoy!
3 years 51 weeks ago, 9:01 AM

Saint J.M. Browning

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IMHO

regarding the repeal of DADT:

  • First of all, I don't like how it has been labeled as the repeal of DADT. That's ignorant. It was DADT that allowed homosexuals in the military. This was really an alteration to Uniform Code of Military Justice that negated the need for DADT.
  • I can't remember the exact text and can't find it anywhere now, but the government mandated that serving in the military is not a right. And they have the right to refuse allowing anyone to serve.
  • I do not have any problem with gays in the military, as long as they do their job and not make federal case of their sexual preference
  • Which is why DADT was ideal, it allowed them to serve w/o having to give them special attention
  • I question the need to remove any restriction on this when there was a means to serve if you just did your job and kept your head down. Are they now going to require everyone acknowledge their gayness and throw a tantrum if they don't?

As far as mandatory service:

I think it should be re-instated. Everyone should have to give this country their service. I think it would help to get some peoples' eyes opened and their heads straight. Especially immigrants. You want to come here and enjoy the greatness of America? Serve a tour of duty.

That's just my thoughts on it.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 51 weeks ago, 3:19 PM

jay sedler

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saint

the only problem i see with what you and allot of people are saying is they shouldnt have to keep their sexual orientation a secret(any more than we should),but that gives me an interesting idea...what if everyone was on a dont ask dont tell?no discussing the girl you poked last week,no talking about your wife or girlfriend.....that would be stupid,but it would be equal for EVERYONE.i dont belive we should have to go out of our way to make gays happy comfortable or welcome any more than we should have to welcome the freaks that tattoo their faces stretch out their ears and lips and get vampire fangs added to their teeth.all that being said,those freaks have the right just like gays just like the rest of us,but who you are and what you do will affect the way you are thought of and treated.i dont belive gays should have to hide who they are,but i dont belive the whole country that generaly didagrees with their (CHOICE) should have to make allot of special arangements to suit them either.gays would be mad to hear it put as a choice,but it is...they may not have a choice in the way they feel but they have a choice in how they live.i may not have a choice in feeling like i wana bash in the heads of most of the people in the isles of the local walmart,but i choose not to.mandatory military service?it would be hard to pass i think,you would be fighting on the grounds of religion,and personal freedom.i personaly dont belive that argument at this time,and id vote for it based on my knowledge and opinions now."every citizen should be a soldier.this was the case with the greeks and romans,and must be that of every free state."THOMAS JEFFERSON.

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
3 years 51 weeks ago, 12:01 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

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Point made

OK, you got a point there. It's just I hope they don't start treating it like it's some right and then start bringing all these distractions to the military. I hope the DOD makes it clear that, even thought there are no longer restrictions, idiotic BS won't be tolerated.And that they can still revoke the privilege if it causes a problem.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 50 weeks ago, 5:48 PM

jay sedler

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absolutly saint.i dont think they should have any privlidges that we dont have.they are the weirdos after all.it is a tricky subject,and will never please all the people,all we can do is be as equal as possible.this post has been debated for quite some time now.just goes to show you how diferent peoples opinions are.

CRY HAVOC and let slip the dogs of war!
3 years 49 weeks ago, 8:04 PM

runawaygun762

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of a sexual nature, whether it be talking about a girl you screwed or how hot this month's Curves cover model is, can be considered sexual harassment if someone persists in talking about it after they've been asked to stop. The normal regs will still apply.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
3 years 49 weeks ago, 8:12 PM

luckybychoice

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is not enforced,but it is graded for originality.

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
3 years 49 weeks ago, 8:18 PM

Ishootdaily

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a girl is into girls. Doesn't change their abilities to do the job assigned to them

But if their is harassment I'd let them know straight up it will stop the same if they harrased one of my fellow female soliders.

If they approached and put a hand on me they would pull back a stump, the same as if they did they put their hands on a fellow female solider.

I'd do the same if a guy put his hands on my daughter or wife, why not if they did the same to me?

Simple really....

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 49 weeks ago, 8:18 PM

runawaygun762

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Here too, LBC

I've actually given EO and sexual harassment classes in which I sexually harassed students. I don't think I've ever actually been sexually harassed, as one of the criteria is that it has to be unwanted, and I'll take what I can get. If gays try to play along howerver, "NO MEANS NO!!"

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
3 years 49 weeks ago, 8:20 PM

Ishootdaily

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LOL, LBC...

true as it is....

But their is a difference between joking sexually or not with someone and doing it at them when they have made it clear not to...

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 49 weeks ago, 8:23 PM

luckybychoice

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I thought my neighbors would be a little more understanding...

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
3 years 49 weeks ago, 8:21 PM

luckybychoice

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shaking my head runs

outside the cell sexual harrassment,inside the cell sexual repression( or at least i hope so)

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
3 years 49 weeks ago, 8:26 PM

runawaygun762

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Sometimes, while riding the shift bus to go to work, it'll be crowded and when someone is looking for a seat, I'll say "Here, let me clear you off a place to sit" and then wipe my face. I probably wouldn't do that to our battalion XO, a female major, as I don't know her like that yet. but most others are fair game. then again, a major has her own vehicle and doesn't need to ride a bus with us peons, so forget I said anything. God, I'm so fuckin' dumb.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
3 years 49 weeks ago, 8:26 PM

Ishootdaily

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LMAO...

I just pictured Runs walking into the showers and looking at each of the terrordinks and tossing a bar of soap onto the floor between all of them with a shit eating grin on his face...

LOL

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 49 weeks ago, 8:27 PM

Larry Wagner

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Hell ISD

Yea that is a visual and a half.

Any day above dirt is a good day!!! My New Motto: Where Do I Sign? (Oh yes I would)
3 years 49 weeks ago, 8:30 PM

runawaygun762

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One in particular involving a bar of soap and packet of olive oil. Jesus, makes me want to find the servicemember who missed the motherfucker and beat him down.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
3 years 49 weeks ago, 8:38 PM

Ishootdaily

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LOL

You know how the liberals wanted them out of G, well they should get them out and put them in pop at Pelican Bay... Bet their shit gets straight real quick!

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 49 weeks ago, 8:47 PM

runawaygun762

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Most of them are stressed out after spending years here without actually being charged, unable to see their families, unable to blow up any infidels (You can hear the violins in the background, right?), so I came up with an idea to let them relax for a bit.

I figure, here we are in a Carribbean tropical paradise (did you know the southern end of Cuba is dry with lots of cacti and no jungle? I didn't.), so why not take them out on a boat about 30 miles offshore and let them go for a swim? Of course, we don't want them to get sunburns on their feet, so we'll just protect those by putting them in buckets full of concrete and letting them dry as we cast off.

I know the spirit of competition lies deep within all of us, so we'll have a race. See who can swim back to shore from 30 miles out with concrete shoes first. First one back goes free to wherever he wants. Oops. I accidentally keep throwing out ladlefulls of chopped up fish guts. Did you know the bull shark is, pound for pound, one of the most testosterone-producing animals on Earth? It happens to be native to this area, too. So are hammerheads, reef sharks, as well as a few different types of very nasty jellyfish. Good luck, Ahmad.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
3 years 49 weeks ago, 9:24 PM

RandyMc

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SICK

Dammit Runs, you are one sick puppy. But I love your idea. I had a similar one a couple of years ago when Obama first announced that he planned to close that place. I didn't know that part of cuba was arid and had cacti. My original idea was put them all on board an LPD and transport them about 20-25 miles southeast. Then tell them it was swim time, flood the well deck. I forgot to mention about all the wet garbage (food waste) that we had been throwing off the fantail for the last 10 miles or so. All that wet garbage would have been saved from the last couple of weeks or so. Oh yea, the night before, we also decided to throw all that rancid meet off the fantail too. Don't want to spoil the new stores. LOL.

Freedom ain't Free, so thank a Veteran when you see one. They are the ones who have protected the freedoms that you enjoy!

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