Forums / Political & Legal / PROOF OF GLOBAL WARMING FRAUD

7 years 46 weeks ago, 9:30 AM

Pkato

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Glacier scientist: I knew data hadn't been verified

The scientist behind the bogus claim in a Nobel Prize-winning UN report that Himalayan glaciers will have melted by 2035 last night admitted it was included purely to put political pressure on world leaders.

Dr Murari Lal also said he was well aware the statement, in the 2007 report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), did not rest on peer-reviewed scientific research.

In an interview with The Mail on Sunday, Dr Lal, the co-ordinating lead author of the report’s chapter on Asia, said: ‘It related to several countries in this region and their water sources. We thought that if we can highlight it, it will impact policy-makers and politicians and encourage them to take some concrete action.

‘It had importance for the region, so we thought we should put it in.’

Chilling error: The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change wrongly asserted that glaciers in the Himalayas would melt by 2035

Dr Lal’s admission will only add to the mounting furore over the melting glaciers assertion, which the IPCC was last week forced to withdraw because it has no scientific foundation.
According to the IPCC’s statement of principles, its role is ‘to assess on a comprehensive, objective, open and transparent basis, scientific, technical and socio-economic information – IPCC reports should be neutral with respect to policy’.

The claim that Himalayan glaciers are set to disappear by 2035 rests on two 1999 magazine interviews with glaciologist Syed Hasnain, which were then recycled without any further investigation in a 2005 report by the environmental campaign group WWF.
It was this report that Dr Lal and his team cited as their source.

The WWF article also contained a basic error in its arithmetic. A claim that one glacier was retreating at the alarming rate of 134 metres a year should in fact have said 23 metres – the authors had divided the total loss measured over 121 years by 21, not 121.
Last Friday, the WWF website posted a humiliating statement recognising the claim as ‘unsound’, and saying it ‘regrets any confusion caused’.

Dr Lal said: ‘We knew the WWF report with the 2035 date was “grey literature” [material not published in a peer-reviewed journal]. But it was never picked up by any of the authors in our working group, nor by any of the more than 500 external reviewers, by the governments to which it was sent, or by the final IPCC review editors.’
In fact, the 2035 melting date seems to have been plucked from thin air.

Professor Graham Cogley, a glacier expert at Trent University in Canada, who began to raise doubts in scientific circles last year, said the claim multiplies the rate at which glaciers have been seen to melt by a factor of about 25.

‘My educated guess is that there will be somewhat less ice in 2035 than there is now,’ he said.

Forced to apologise: Chairman of the IPCC Raj Pachauri

‘But there is no way the glaciers will be close to disappearing. It doesn’t seem to me that exaggerating the problem’s seriousness is going to help solve it.’

One of the problems bedevilling Himalayan glacier research is a lack of reliable data. But an authoritative report published last November by the Indian government said: ‘Himalayan glaciers have not in any way exhibited, especially in recent years, an abnormal annual retreat.’

When this report was issued, Raj Pachauri, the IPCC chairman, denounced it as ‘voodoo science’.

Having been forced to apologise over the 2035 claim, Dr Pachauri blamed Dr Lal, saying his team had failed to apply IPCC procedures.

It was an accusation rebutted angrily by Dr Lal. ‘We as authors followed them to the letter,’ he said. ‘Had we received information that undermined the claim, we would have included it.’

However, an analysis of those 500-plus formal review comments, to be published tomorrow by the Global Warming Policy Foundation (GWPF), the new body founded by former Chancellor Nigel Lawson, suggests that when reviewers did raise issues that called the claim into question, Dr Lal and his colleagues simply ignored them.

For example, Hayley Fowler of Newcastle University, suggested that their draft did not mention that Himalayan glaciers in the Karakoram range are growing rapidly, citing a paper published in the influential journal Nature.

In their response, the IPCC authors said, bizarrely, that they were ‘unable to get hold of the suggested references’, but would ‘consider’ this in their final version. They failed to do so.

The Japanese government commented that the draft did not clarify what it meant by stating that the likelihood of the glaciers disappearing by 2035 was ‘very high’. ‘What is the confidence level?’ it asked.

The authors’ response said ‘appropriate revisions and editing made’. But the final version was identical to their draft.

Last week, Professor Georg Kaser, a glacier expert from Austria, who was lead author of a different chapter in the IPCC report, said when he became aware of the 2035 claim a few months before the report was published, he wrote to Dr Lal, urging him to withdraw it as patently untrue.

Dr Lal claimed he never received this letter. ‘He didn’t contact me or any of the other authors of the chapter,’ he said.

The damage to the IPCC’s reputation, already tarnished by last year’s ‘Warmergate’ leaked email scandal, is likely to be considerable.

Benny Peiser, the GWPF’s director, said the affair suggested the IPCC review process was ‘skewed by a bias towards alarmist assessments’.

Environmentalist Alton Byers said the panel’s credibility had been damaged. ‘They’ve done sloppy work,’ he said. ‘We need better research on the ground, not unreliable predictions derived from computer models.’

Last night, Dr Pachauri defended the IPCC, saying it was wrong to generalise based on a single mistake. ‘Our procedure is robust,’ he added.

Patrolman Kato
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7 years 46 weeks ago, 11:15 AM

CharlesW

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The polor ice caps melting and more ice burgs in
shipping lanes than average

A little rebellion is good medicine for the government Thomas Jefferson
7 years 46 weeks ago, 12:21 PM

Pkato

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Charles

There is nothing happening, that's the point...it's all natural, its been occurring since the beginning of time. The alarmists are using the last 100 years as their test ground when the earth is so much older...it's ridiculous! The polar ice caps are not melting either...we are not headed for catstrophe...it's all total bullshit and an effort to gouge more money from us into the poorer countries, it's obvious. Shit...5 lines!!!

Patrolman Kato
Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself.
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7 years 46 weeks ago, 12:24 PM

samD

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As our leading weatherperson, you have too much knowledge to be limited to 3 lines. The BS artists should be limited, not you. So have at it my friend...

7 years 46 weeks ago, 1:14 PM

Pkato

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OK

Then let me add this to Global Warming...as a weather forecaster we use models...which sometimes are spot on, other times completely out to lunch. Well, the guys who are using and making models concerning Global Warming are off already...because instead of heating up, the earth has actually cooled recently and they cannot explain this (which is why they covered up the data and manipulated it at the England facility--it's obvious and the email traffic confirmed what many thought for years). Their whole argument is unraveling right now and they are in full retreat and cover up mode. Now this new data comes out (and honestly, there was a Weather Channel forecaster who previously noted this problem with the number of sensors and where they are located and many of them being decommissioned) -- he was summarily disqualifed as disgruntled employee, etc etc...the usual attacks. Now this information comes out and I am confident that over the next few years, especially with Cap and Trade on the table under Obama, more information will come out. Anyway, back to the models...when our models don't do well, we adjust for the screw up--to my knowledge, there has been no adjustment to their models (unless you count the manipulation to make the models fit their data). For instance, our forecast according to the models show low clouds moving into the area with accompanying rainshowers/thunderstorms...however, the actual conditions show low clouds moving in 4 hours earlier than models indicate, well, then we need to reevaluate and bring in low clouds, showers and thunderstorms in 4 hours earlier on the forecast. It's called initializing and verification...we do it all the time. I never saw anything showing that they have adjusted their models using the actual warming versus their forecast cooling -- if anyone has evidence of this, I am willing to look at it.

Patrolman Kato
Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself.
They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone
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7 years 43 weeks ago, 11:31 AM

Pkato

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so it is imperative that I share good news with all of you: Read below:

Another revelation of malfeasance this week was the discovery that the chapter on Amazon rainforests in the IPCC's AR4, the one that included the often-repeated claim that 40 per cent of the forest is under imminent threat from climate change, was written not by climate scientists but by an policy analyst who works for environmental groups and a freelance environmental author. ... In all, so far, at least 16 major claims made in AR4 (the report for which the IPCC won a Nobel Prize) have been shown to have originated with environmental groups rather than scientists.... Does all this prove global warming is a hoax? I believe it does. But at the least, it shows the science is far from settled."

--Edmonton Journal columnist Lorne Gunter

Patrolman Kato
Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself.
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7 years 43 weeks ago, 11:50 AM

Schuyler

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Glaciergate: Here the head of the IPCC defended the idea that the Himilayan glaciers would be gone by 2035, saying the Indian who made the claim was using 'voodoo science.' But it turns out this guy, Parachuri, knew the glacier claim was false, but neglected to tell anyone until after the Copenhagen Conference, where it surely woyuld have bee a topic of discussion. Not only that, this guy's provate thintank got millions of dollars in grant oney to "study" the situation.

SeaGate: The IPCC claimed over 50% of the netherlands was under sea level and subject to flooding with rising seas. the anwer is closer to 20% and they have yet to say just how the netherlands would be 'flooded'

Africagate: The claim: 50% of African agriculture would be wiped out by 2020 because of less rainfall. The source? An obscure 'scientist' whose main job is trading carbon credits. Even the ex head of IPCC admits there is no scientific evidence for such a claim.

This stuff is even more damaging than the Climategate emails because the claims come from the IPCCv4 report, which they claim only uses peer-reviewed information. In fact, they don't. There are frequent quotes from green activist organizations such as the WWF. In one case they even used information from a popular climbing mafazine and a masters theis from a Swiss man who was an alpine guide who wondered if the drop off in business was due to the recession or climate change wity the conclsuin that 'we'll never know.' In another section there is a reference to an article on how to properly clean your boots when walking in Antarctica.

There are tons of blogs on his subject. One of the more comprehensive is: http://www.climatedepot.com/

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
7 years 43 weeks ago, 11:58 AM

HampsterW

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I agree with Pkato

here is my take on this, my dad was a career geologist and he was a firm believer in the cycles that the planet goes though. He always told me that GW was a bunch of bullshit, that every volcanic eruption spews out more nasty shit than the history of mankind...and I believe him.

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
7 years 43 weeks ago, 12:12 PM

Pkato

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Hamp

That's absolutely correct...volcanoes put more carbon into the atmosphere (one eruption) than man does in an entire year!!! So instead of cap and trade, maybe we should just cap the volcanoes?

Patrolman Kato
Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself.
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7 years 43 weeks ago, 12:15 PM

HampsterW

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Ha ha

Might cost less in the long run.

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
7 years 43 weeks ago, 1:10 PM

greg az

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in my simplistic world things are ah...simple.. and to me the horrible thing about cap and trade as well as "most" enviromental issues is its effect the economy.. Is it possible that we could slip into another recession the dreaded "double dip" that the media likes to call it.. Yes.. and most economists seem to be inline on the following: It was antisipated that the dow would rebound before the unemployment numbers.. and it did, if at this point the unemployment does NOT pick up then we will probabley be facing another major sell off.. It sure seems logical that the last thing we would want to do is slow the economy by forcing compliance with cap and trade.
As i understand the issue (cap and trade) firms that are affected can thwart it by sending production overseas anyway.. so in essence its just another NAFTA painted green..
Pkato i defer to you on this, am i missing something or is my logic more accurate than my spelling..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
7 years 43 weeks ago, 2:20 PM

Pkato

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fantasy dreamed up by imbeciles who think things are not fair. Take a look at most liberals...they mostly are made up of people who were not liked in school, not part of the in-crowd, etc etc...they seem to all have some personality disorder. They are the kids in college or high school who cheered when their own school was beat in the big game and shit like that. They are consumed with evening the playing field. If they were really serious about the environment, would they still be driving around in limousines, using military aircraft, private jets etc??? Just go take a look at their homes, their lifestyles and everything else in their lives. I will bet not one of them lives in a 'green house' or do anything close to what they preach to us.

But Greg, Obama wants additional taxes on companies that do business overseas. I mean, what I know about it...a company can operate overseas, have employees from that overseas country, but as long as they are paying taxes in the US they will be affected. Before you came on this board, I wrote something up to someone else who was an AGW kool aid drinker. I dared him to list what he does to help the environment, and I listed what I do...we were at least even, although I believe I still did way more than he did. So, why would anyone like that be empowered to tell me how to live? I am all for not polluting the environment...but you gotta be reasonable. it's the same mentality that chose not to build a border fence just outside San Diego because of some freaking turtle or other stupid animal...

Everything Obama does with his liberal lackeys is to even the playing field...these Democrats are not the Dems of 70 years ago...they are LIBERALS, 1960s liberal who think we are a bad country who needs to make up for our sins. That is exactly why we have welfare and Social Security...redistribution of wealth!

Cap and Trade:

administrative approach used to control pollution by providing economic incentives for achieving reductions in the emissions of pollutants.

A central authority (usually a governmental body) sets a limit or cap on the amount of a pollutant that can be emitted. Companies or other groups are issued emission permits and are required to hold an equivalent number of allowances (or credits) which represent the right to emit a specific amount. The total amount of allowances and credits cannot exceed the cap, limiting total emissions to that level. Companies that need to increase their emission allowance must buy credits from those who pollute less. The transfer of allowances is referred to as a trade. In effect, the buyer is paying a charge for polluting, while the seller is being rewarded for having reduced emissions by more than was needed. Thus, in theory, those who can reduce emissions most cheaply will do so, achieving the pollution reduction at the lowest cost to society.[1]

There are active trading programs in several air pollutants. For greenhouse gases the largest is the European Union Emission Trading Scheme.[2] In the United States there is a national market to reduce acid rain and several regional markets in nitrogen oxides.[3] Markets for other pollutants tend to be smaller and more localized.

I submit this to you Greg and everyone else. Have you driven across the US lately? It's beautiful...there is not a lot of pollution, we are cleaner than we have ever been since the Industrial Revolution...we don't need more big government to tell us we need to preserve the environment. In the end though, China and India are huge polluters and have no plans to slow down or clean up...have you been to India or China? I have been to both and the air is terrible, same as in Korea and Japan at times...it's a SCHEME.

In other news:
Democrat in Illinois CRIES in public, during SUPERBOWL, in a BAR...then leaves the race. Was accused years earlier of putting a knife to his girlfriend's throat--GREAT!

Murtha is DEAD, Murtha is DEAD...What a year!

Patrolman Kato
Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself.
They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone
under independence. -- George Washington
7 years 43 weeks ago, 2:36 PM

Pkato

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to no end...the Dems saying that they absolutely won't raise taxes on the middle class! Well, I guess partially it's true, since the poor people also buy products that prices are raised on because the the taxation...so in reality, they raise taxes on the middle class and THE POOR!

Patrolman Kato
Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself.
They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone
under independence. -- George Washington
7 years 43 weeks ago, 2:49 PM

greg az

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pkato...thanks.

As always you take the time to give a complete disortation on a subject.. in this case one that i don't think a lot of us clearly understand .. As stated i fear it will slow down the economy and for that reason alone im suspect of the timing..

I think you hit it on the head re the whole "lib" thing.. There are unfortunatly those amung us who would prefer to see failure as opposed to sucess, i don't know if they have these feelings based on thier own faliure in life.. The whole mindset of we vs they, and the idea of the wealthy automaticly being evil is shared by those who have the misguided notion that the government can solve all the ills of mankind.

Again i live in a simple world (has its own spelling rules as well) if it slows down the GDP, or causes havic with the dow while were trying to get out of our current problems, now is not the time for a program that may or may not end a problem (Global Warming) that may or may not be anywhere near fact to start with..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
7 years 43 weeks ago, 3:03 PM

Pkato

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Below 10,000 again...Great Job on the economy Obama, you got Wall Street running scared still...haha!

Patrolman Kato
Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself.
They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone
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7 years 43 weeks ago, 3:08 PM

greg az

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that the employment numbers will not rebound before the dow drops again.. thats one thing that most all economists are saying will push us into a second recessision or the "double dip" as they call it.. sure does not seem like the time for cap and trade.. wait...we did that... ok..im rambling... need wife beck and best... see ya all later..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
7 years 43 weeks ago, 3:13 PM

Pkato

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But Greg

It's still going to be blamed on Bush...haha!

Patrolman Kato
Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself.
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7 years 43 weeks ago, 3:24 PM

Pkato

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beating Obama, but I know Romney probably would beat him...Obama was voted in because

1. He wasn't Bush or a Republican
2. Is Black (therefore most Blacks voted for him as well as whites who feel we have to make up for past sins-slavery)
3. Economy

But, the public is starting to see how much of an inexperienced, Harvard Law Professor he really is...

Patrolman Kato
Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself.
They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone
under independence. -- George Washington
7 years 43 weeks ago, 3:52 PM

HampsterW

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Pkato

Do you really think that the religious types in middle America are ready for a Morman in the white house, I only say this because I know how misinformed the majority of people (outside of Utah and other LDS hotspots) are about the religion?

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
7 years 43 weeks ago, 4:34 PM

runawaygun762

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I don't trust mormons, I don't believe it's a religion as much as a cult. I'm not much on man-made, organized religion anyway, but Mormons really don't count as good. I liked Huckabee, but that's mainly because Chuck Norris supported him. I didn't research much on Ron Paul, as this past election took place when I was still trying to understand American politics. I think I have a decent understanding now and think we should all vote DAVID MARLOW FOR PRESIDENT!!! Hell, I couldn't do much worse than the current Embarrassment in Chief. Oh, but I won't be eligible until 2020, so settle down, people.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
7 years 43 weeks ago, 4:59 PM

Schuyler

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the way Palin does. Romney's also the Big Business candidate who was responsible for laying off thousands of companies that he 'turned around.' I think this would be used against him very effectively given a populace that is very sensitive to unemployment. Palin appears to have the 'pulse' of the middle and the tea party folks who have awakened as Obama has 'ruled' rather than 'lead.' Even people who are her detractors have admitted that her speech last saturday was electrifying. Oh, and she's lifetime NRA. There would be no wafflin on the 2nd amendment.

I'm not pushing any particular candidate at this stage, but this is just how I see it from looking at reactions of other people. I don't think I see myself as shilling for any candidate this net time around. The experience was so distasteful last time. I lost a couple of long time friends (mostly because I turned conservative on them and they just assumed I agreed with their liberal crap.)

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
7 years 43 weeks ago, 5:36 PM

HampsterW

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especially Romney for many of the same reasons as runs. I do admit that Palin would do wonders for our 2nd amend. rights but there is certainly more to it than that.

Until some major changes come about in Washington as a whole we will never see "change we can believe in"....what a horseshit slogan that was.

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------

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