Forums / Off Topic / Questions about the FACTS of Aurora shootings

3 years 48 weeks ago, 11:48 AM

Saint J.M. Browning

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Just curious about a few things and hoping some of you can clear it up.

I see some very irresponsible reporting coming from the news sources. The term assault rifle is flying, of course. It was a S&W M&P AR15. The shotgun is being described by most as tactical. It was the extremely popular Remington 870. And of course, they have no issue with pointing out his pistols were Glocks. Apparently, the non-gun educated have a negative association to this.

I've heard he used tear gas from some and smoke bombs from others. Some say he had bullet proof armor head to toe. Others say it was riot gear.

And of course, there is the speculation about motive, his political affiliations, whether there were signs that warned of this, etc.

I work for this theater company (Cinemark), so of course there is plenty of talk going on around here. I don't want to diminish the tragedy of the victims by focusing on this soulless monster, but I want to prevent the spread of disinformation as well.

Has anyone heard/read any actual confirmed facts about whether he was any NIJ rated body armor and what it actually was? Was it tear gas or smoke?

One site claimed that a class IV bullet proof vest could be bought at Amazon for $200.
http://www.amazon.com/Ceramic-Armor-Plate-Level-IV/dp/B007W6DQSI
From what I know, this is just the ceramic plate and you need at least two of these (to protect your back, anyway) as well as the carrier vest. I think this just up-armors a class IIIa vest to class IV. Or am I mistaken?

His riot helmet was supposedly this one:
http://tacticalgear.com/blackhawk-ballistic-mich-helmet

Even though it says on there it is for military and police only. But let's suppose he was able to get one. Is it bullet proof? To what level? Handgun? And supposedly he had bullet proof leggings. Any possibility of this?

Thanks for any help.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 48 weeks ago, 4:05 PM

luckybychoice

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Not Body armor

Much of dino-media has been reciting the “body armor” meme, probably out of the same ignorance that makes them call semi-automatic handgun magazines “clips.”

•New York Daily News: “…was also wearing red clothing beneath the black body armor that terrified moviegoers saw when he opened fire…”
•New York Times: “…nearly head-to-toe ‘ballistic gear,’ including a throat protector and leggings…” (Using the term “ballistic” implies resistant material.)
•Contra Costa Times (California): “…wearing a gas mask and what looked like body armor…”
According to Bullet Proof Me in Austin, Texas, it is legal for law-abiding citizens to buy true body armor. But this is about reporting a story, not about pushing a political agenda to justify more restrictions on law-abiding citizens.

Even Criminologist James Allen Fox, who I often disagree with, has stated that more gun control won’t stop mass murderers.

In this case, Winter interviewed Chad Weinman, CEO of TacticalGear.com, who admitted the shooter’s vest came from their mail order company.

Winter used the term “urban assault vest.” Looking that up at TacticalGear.com displays this result. It’s made of “heavy-duty nylon” and has no Kevlar or other bullet-resistant materials. Granted, if you load it up with magazines you may derive some protection at the expense of your ammunition, but it’s not “body armor.”

You’re welcome to browse other offerings, like this Blackhawk vest made of “heavy-duty nylon mesh for maximum breathability.” Looks like body armor and could fool people into thinking it is, especially under low light conditions.

Let’s hope the truth continues coming out on this story.

here's the source http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/07/22/fox-no-body-armor-for-aurora-theate...

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
3 years 48 weeks ago, 8:35 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

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Thanks, LBC

I found that article too. But that was about the only one I found that had any information alluding to the fact that it wasn't body armor. So I didn't want to run with it either till I found out for sure.

I'm going to keep looking to see if anyone prints any know facts about whether he was or not. Regardless, it does make me think that maybe I need to rethink my mental exercises in situational awareness and my possible solutions to removing a threat. I always figure 2 center mass would be sufficient. But, until now, the possibility of a threat wearing body armor didn't occur to me.

Any with combat experience got suggestions? Start center mass and assess. If it looks like body armor is present, aim for the head? Maybe legs or the side if possible? Of course there are level III leggings, side armor, masks, and helmets; so, unless I'm carrying a rifle, I might just be screwed. If so, would it be the time to rapid empty my mag while rushing the bum, and try to take him out physically?

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 48 weeks ago, 10:03 PM

coppertop

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You could always get and carry a fn 5.7 with AP rounds if you can get them. Otherwise, make all 7 shots count and hope one gets thru. Maybe try for any exposed areas such as hands and head shots. Anyway you look at it, this is a very crappy situation. It's dark and gas or smoke has been set off. Along with that, you add 100's of scared people running about, forget about well aimed shots. This is a tough one to plan for.

3 years 48 weeks ago, 12:08 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

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copper

That depends on the armor. I believe level III and I know IV would defeat the 5.7 round. I think you're right about this one. It's not something you can be ready for. It's like all the media and their what could be done, what should be done, etc. It's like preparing for a large meteor strike. Sometimes, shit just happens.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 48 weeks ago, 10:53 PM

daisycutter

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person who is wearing some type of bullet resistant clothing should be debilitated for at least several seconds, I've seen it in shootings on the news. Cop gets hit in the body armor and goes down like a rock, gets up 5 seconds later and staggers like a drunk. It gives you plenty of time to get a proper sight picture on their face. If they were in fact wearing body armor they'll need to look up the barrel of your gun and ask themselves, "Do I feel lucky...?"
If they were not wearing protection that question is already answered :<)

iyaoyas
3 years 48 weeks ago, 12:10 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

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Agreed, DC

I think that's the best that could be done. Hit them a couple of times in a sensitive area, use the momentary distraction to rush them, tackle them, disarm them, and pummel the snot out of them.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 48 weeks ago, 11:35 PM

ronin1604

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Bullet Proof??

Well, I've shot phonebooks, and had them stop rounds.... Are they next up on the chopping block? As to "bulletproof" throat and groin protectors... The only ones I've seen are kevlar, no ceramic. While this offers a degree of protection, I wouldn't want to risk my life on it. I've taken a hit in a vest with plates, and it hurt like hell.... I wouldn't even want to imagine what it would be like with just kevlar padding.

__________________ "...He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one." - Jesus, Luke 22:36
3 years 48 weeks ago, 7:25 AM

coppertop

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He was on vicoden and may not have been affected by the return fire unless it actually went into the body cavity. Repeated shots may have caused some damage from blunt force, but just look at the bank robbery from LA. How many shots did they take?

3 years 48 weeks ago, 12:18 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

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Vicoden

I've heard this one too. There have been a plethora of cases where a perp was so hopped up on drugs or adrenaline that they seemed to ignore being shot. Including those hollywood bank robbers.
But those robbers apparently had enough hits to make one shoot himself and the other run for it. And end up dying anyway. But those guys seemed tough and resolved.
I could be wrong, but my impression of this guy is that he is pretty much a weenie and couldn't take it, Vicoden notwithstanding.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 48 weeks ago, 5:01 PM

coppertop

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My read on this guy from what I've seen so far is a coward that looked for an easy target. I have not heard of any proper training of any type. I saw were he tried to join a gun club, but didn't for whatever reason. My point is that if he was a coward with no training, had he taken 1 or more hits of return fire may have been enough to stop him. By stop him, I mean him giving up or running away. All the what ifs still don't change that he killed and hurt way too many people.

3 years 48 weeks ago, 7:21 PM

luckybychoice

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thats a great story really. This fuck job coward tried to join a gun club but the owner wasn't there at the time to have a little discussion with him,vested it's called..So shitferbrains leaves and later the gun range owner/manager calls this guys phone and gets a goofy answering machine message.

well the goofy answering machine message and the fact that when the guy filled in the application for the gun range membership he had written "cheers" at the bottom of the application.

combined these two items were red flags for the gun range owner/manager and this horse turd,puss nuted,waste of oxegyn was denied membership to the gun range.

Hats off boys to that gun range owner/manager! The gun range is in LEAD,Colorado

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
3 years 48 weeks ago, 8:52 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

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100% agree, Lucky

I read that one too. Made me feel the same way.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 48 weeks ago, 8:05 PM

Vaquero

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Question. Why aint that son of a bitch swinging on a rope?

Fact. 70 years ago he'd done be buried.

Fucked up people, fucked up system.

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
3 years 48 weeks ago, 8:53 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

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Vaq

Like you said before, our founders would already be shooting.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 48 weeks ago, 8:37 PM

daisycutter

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6-10 years, some psychiatrist who himself is crazier than a shit house mouse says the guy is cured and the system turns him loose.
The highly educated ones are not always trust worthy. James Holmes is a good example.

If he is not so lucky he goes to trial for capital murder. Odds are in his favor to be condemed to death but will challenge EVERYTHING and die of old age.

Who was the asshole mass murderer that got beat to death in prison, Jeffrey Dahmer? Sometimes justice comes from strange quarters.

Years ago a mother shot and killed a man that molested her son. She plugged him inside the court house. If that deterred one baby raper it was a good thing.

iyaoyas
3 years 48 weeks ago, 8:54 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

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DC

I'm hoping eventually someone makes a "mistake" and slips him in general population. Problem solved.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 48 weeks ago, 8:58 PM

daisycutter

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`

iyaoyas

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