Forums / Strategies, Tactics & Training / Questions about home defense, need answers

5 years 42 weeks ago, 1:48 PM

raffycanlas

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Me and my friend were talking about shotguns the other day and all of a sudden the conversation turned to home defense, we argued that if an intruder is in your house, you can shoot them or not. my questions are...

1. if a thief is obviously in my house tresspassing, dont i have the right to shoot him?

2. my friend also told me that if i use a firearm for self defense, that firearm will be confiscated by the cops and possibly never returned again, is this true?

I'm just another damn yankee with a loaded gun looking for some fun!
5 years 42 weeks ago, 2:14 PM

runawaygun762

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Sort of

If you shoot someone in self defense, the police will almost always collect your weapon as evidence. If a police officer shoots someone in the line of duty and it is determined justified, they will normally get a letter from the DA's office saying the Da has no intentions of chrging the officer. Citizens do not get this treatment. As a citizen, you don't get a cut and dried answer as to whether the DA is going to file chrges or not. Depending on the caseload, political ambitions, and media coverage, your grand jury hearing may take place very quickly or may take over a year. the police will maintain custody of the weapon until well after the criminal proceedings and if there is a civil lawsuit like wrongful death filed, you still won't get it back until after that is over. Anybody who has ever seen evidence custodians at work can tell you that they are not typically gentle with other people's property and the gun will normally be engraved with case number and other markings, so if and when you do get it back, it will normally not be in very good condition. Hopefullythat helps answer the issue of weapon custody.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 42 weeks ago, 2:14 PM

samD

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raffycanlas

It all depends on your States laws. In reality you can only use deadly force if you or someone is in imminent danger of being killed or bodily injury. You can't kill a thief, legally! I would suggest to all concerned that if you have a gun for self defense, make Damn sure that it is loaded with personal defence ammo ONLY. Prosecutors have gone after people who use weapons with "so called Hunting Ammo" FMJs for the range only.
You will be termed as a "Hunter/Killer" in court as in Offensive use of a weapon unless you have Personal Defense ammo in it. DON'T empty your clip into the person or persons. Double tap and wait if he/she moves for their weapon, then shoot again. DO NOT talk to the POLICE about the incident. Wait until you have an Attorney present. Do Not say ANYTHING. DO NOT say how many shots you fired especially. If you say 2 and they find more spent rounds then you are now a LIAR! A strange thing happens in this kind of thing, when the Adrenaline is pumping your hearing shuts down and really you don't hear anything. Don't let your wife/girlfriend/kids or friends talk to the Police until you have an Attorney present. In areas of anti-gunners, they would love for you to say something wrong. Before LLE arrives and it is safe, unload your weapon and clear it. Be prepared to go to jail or Police Headquarters.
The Police are not there to defend you. They have to ascertain if you are the good guy or the bad guy. They don't care. They want to make an arrest.
Get familiar with Pro-Gun Attorneys. Get their business card and carry one or put it on the fridge. KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT! Let them talk for you, then you will probably not have to face trial or jail time. Give the Police your NAME and address ONLY!
Your firearm could be consficated for the duration until the hearing, court oer whatever. If you are clean and legal, they can't keep it forever.

5 years 42 weeks ago, 2:30 PM

runawaygun762

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Home Defense

As far as when you can and can't kill someone in the process of them burglarizing your house, different states vary. Some states still have a "duty to retreat" in which you must make all reasonable means to avoid a physical conflict with an intruder before you engage him/her with deadly force. other states have a "castle doctrine" which says if you are in your home and someone breaks in you can legally shoot them. Be very careful. It is never a good idea to put blanket statements on whether you can or cannot kill. The acronym "CYA" is useful, and it is not "Cover Your Ass", it's "Can You Articulate". In any conflict in which force is used, the law judges the person based on what a reasonable person with similar skill, training, and experience would do in the same situation. A SWAT team commander with 20 years experience in unarmed self defense and less-lethal training is going to be held to a higher standard of conduct than a 50 year old woman with arthritis. it is also a fallacy to think the intruder has to be armed before you can shoot him/her. The easiest way to determine what you can do is to remember the phrase "Minimum amount of force necessary to stop the threat". if presentation of a gun is enough to gain compliance from an intruder, then you can't kick him in the head when he's proned out because you want to teach him a lesson. If you kill an intruder because you think you see a gun in his hand and it turns out he was taking the remote for your vcr, you will be judged based on the information you had at the time, not based on the fact that all he had was a remote. This is a topic that bears much more discussion, but I've about reached by book-length quota. I will say as a last thought, don't ever fire a warning shot or shoot to wound. A warning shot is considered a miss in the eyes of the courts and shooting to wound is the same thing legally as shooting center mass. Shoot to stop the threat. If a shot that hits his left pinky nail gets him to stop, good. If it takes a magazine and a half because he is superman, so be it. Shoot 'em 'till they stop.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 42 weeks ago, 3:01 PM

raffycanlas

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thanks yall

so many laws, and so different!

I'm just another damn yankee with a loaded gun looking for some fun!
5 years 41 weeks ago, 5:08 PM

shadow walker

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defend

I suggest that you go to the Atty. Gen web site of your state, go thru the index which will take you to the gun laws of your state. Print these up and check about every three mos or so to see if something was slid in while you were not looking. Az just put castle law into effect not to long ago, but 15 yrs ago Idaho had the law already in place. At present only 27 states have the castle law in place. For me I am old and if someone brakes into my house I fear for my life and that of my wife and I'll do what it takes to stop the the threat. shadow walker...........my nickle's worth...Be safe Stay alert

Shadowwalker
5 years 42 weeks ago, 3:56 PM

Reaper308

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one more thing

my advice...

never state that you "meant to shoot the intruder but not kill him" (i.e: in the leg, because you didn't want to kill him)

This means that deadly force was not necessary therefore you didn't have the right to use it (shooting someone anywhere is deadly force). This will most likely be followed up by assault with a deadly weapon charge and possibly kidnapping if you hold them there until police arrive.

In that scenerio is would be better to say that you meant to shoot him in the chest, but accidentally hit him in the leg... catch my drift?

If you MUST shoot, and deadly force is REQUIRED, I suggest you aim at center mass. Shoot only to stop the immediate life threatening act. If the perp is down/immobalized but still breathing, and the threat is stopped, so be it. I don't suggest that anyone play the judge and jury.

Lastly, I suggest that you check to see if your state has adopted the castle doctrine. States that have, tend to be more in favor of using deadly force to stop a deadly threat.

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
5 years 42 weeks ago, 4:04 PM

runawaygun762

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I mostly agree, Reaper

The thing I would disagree on is saying where you meant to shoot him. Don't. If you must say anything like that, say you were aiming for the biggest part of his body that was visible. It may not matter one way or the other in a criminal case, but you can bet in a civil lawsuit the lawyer will be trying to make you out to be a bloodthirsty killer and as soon as you say you were aiming for the chest, he'll make it out like you were trying to kill the guy. your advice about not saying you were trying to wound is spot on. Don't ever admit you had any sort of doubt as to whether lethal force was necessary. good one, i wish i'd thought of it. DAMN IT, YOU'RE SO MUCH SMARTER THAN ME!!!! I SUCK!!!

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 42 weeks ago, 4:09 PM

Reaper308

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point well taken

you shouldn't say anything at all, except to your attorney, but you're right. now drop and give me 20!

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
5 years 42 weeks ago, 4:13 PM

Reaper308

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evidence retrieval

why don't we ask snake how he was able to retrieve his SAA back so quickly... maybe there was a little sneaking involved

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
5 years 42 weeks ago, 4:36 PM

sytasyn_syn

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Best bet...if you want to kill someone, join the service and wait for full blown action in afghan! Not your house!!!

Be Kind and Courteous to All That You Meet, But Always Have A Plan to Kill Them -U.S. Marine Corp General-
5 years 42 weeks ago, 4:56 PM

runawaygun762

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There are particular people I would like to kill, but I can't imagine anyone wanting to kill just "someone". Make no mistake, it is one thing to be part of a group, firing at a partially obscured enemy in a combat zone where you expect things to happen; it is an entirely different story to be awoken at 3 am to a person invading your personal space, to have to go from a blissful "condition white" in your sleep to full-tilt-boogie-adrenaline-charged-stumbling-over-your-fuckin'-sneakers-that-your-adorable 14-month-old-son-put-there-while-trying-to-emulate-daddy-code-three- condition red with your wife gasping and grabbing you when she should be grabbing the cell phone and heading into the master bath closet with your son and donning the body armor and grabbing the M4 to defend in place should you lose the gunfight in the kitchen. it all adds up to an unbelieveable amount of emotional overload once the adrenaline wears down. Don't be so ready to kill.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 42 weeks ago, 5:09 PM

Anonymous

id like to kill but to keep my self from being sued and or taken out my self im no gonna say anything. I might have a price on my head......

5 years 42 weeks ago, 5:14 PM

runawaygun762

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I have a list

I don't want to kill people, but I do realize there are people who should die, and there are people i would rather kill than see alive, but I don't think that's the same as wanting to kill them. For instance, to quote a former platoon leader of mine, "I'm not saying we should kill all the muslims, I'm just saying if someone did it'd be really cool".

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 42 weeks ago, 5:24 PM

Anonymous

Runawyguns

Thats the best way to put it...
who was your platoon leader?

5 years 42 weeks ago, 5:33 PM

runawaygun762

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I won't give that up

He is a commissioned officer, and subject to unofficial sanctions, so I won't put his name out online. Suffice it to say we got along very well. He also has a shit load of guns. his basement reminds me of the one in the movie Tremors, without the reloading gear.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 42 weeks ago, 5:44 PM

Anonymous

runawyguns

fair enough...You should see my freinds basement. Plenty of porn,guns,food,beer......lets just say he is loaded for 2012.

5 years 42 weeks ago, 9:34 PM

Ebear

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yeah

all this talk makes me want to go out and slaughter bunnies and puppydogs and a few rainbows!!!!!

...check... G-AZ
5 years 42 weeks ago, 9:51 PM

BluesHarp

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Come on man!

We all know that you want to do that all the time.

Go ahead punk, Make My Day!
5 years 42 weeks ago, 9:56 PM

Ebear

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nope

if i did it all the time it would lose the element of suprise in thier little faces.i also like to steal Cabbage PATCH Dolls and sell thier birth certificates on Mexican E-BAY.

...check... G-AZ
5 years 42 weeks ago, 10:02 PM

BluesHarp

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LOL!!!!

You ain't right Bear.

Go ahead punk, Make My Day!
5 years 42 weeks ago, 10:03 PM

coldfront

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ebear

you know you poke holes in the bottoms of the dolls and show your ooooo face.

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 42 weeks ago, 10:04 PM

Anonymous

Ebear

Mexican Ebay.....Did you work on that all day

5 years 42 weeks ago, 10:07 PM

Ebear

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NO SNAKE

I CAME TO ME IN A VISION..........BOW TO ME YOU HUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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5 years 42 weeks ago, 10:07 PM

coldfront

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mexican ebay

i bought something from there once, then i was on the toilet for 3 days straight

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 42 weeks ago, 10:09 PM

Anonymous

mexican ebay

is that right next door to the home depot?

5 years 42 weeks ago, 10:11 PM

coldfront

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mexican ebay location

it is in between kennedy fried chicken and payday loans

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 42 weeks ago, 10:15 PM

Ebear

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And cRAZY jORGE'S USED

And cRAZY jORGE'S USED PIN'ATAS

...check... G-AZ
5 years 42 weeks ago, 10:12 PM

Ebear

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TELEMUNDO

Who knows what the fuck tey're talkin about , but the big tittied muchachas make my anaconda's head explode like a cream mortar!!!!

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5 years 42 weeks ago, 10:15 PM

coldfront

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hooray for spanish girls

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 42 weeks ago, 10:17 PM

Ebear

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YAY

NOBODY AND I MEAN NOBODY LOOKS FINER IN TIGHT CAPRRIS THAN A LATINA

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5 years 42 weeks ago, 10:20 PM

coldfront

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they look good in nothing too. but man, those attitudes are killer.

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 42 weeks ago, 10:22 PM

Ebear

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YOU KNOW IT

BUT I SAY THIS, PUERTO RICAN CHICS ARE THE BEST SEX MACHINES EVER MADE

...check... G-AZ
5 years 42 weeks ago, 10:26 PM

coldfront

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ebear

all the x's were puerto rican.... i miss those days

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 42 weeks ago, 10:28 PM

Ebear

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ME TOO

WIFE IS MEXICAN.......CLOSE FRIEND IS IRISH...IM TIRED

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5 years 42 weeks ago, 10:31 PM

Anonymous

ebear?

a menage with the wifey and the irish gal?do tell!

5 years 42 weeks ago, 10:34 PM

Ebear

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I WISH

IT WOULD SAVE ON ALLOT OF TIME.....LOL

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5 years 42 weeks ago, 10:34 PM

coldfront

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did she kiss the blarney stones?

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 42 weeks ago, 10:36 PM

Ebear

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WELL

IM A SUCKER FOR REDHEADS

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5 years 42 weeks ago, 10:39 PM

Ebear

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GOOD NITE ALL

AND HAVE A SAFE HAPPY NEW YEAR

...check... G-AZ
5 years 42 weeks ago, 10:41 PM

Anonymous

you too brother bear!

here's to you!

5 years 42 weeks ago, 10:42 PM

Ebear

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THANX

AND HERE'S TO SMUDGE!!

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5 years 42 weeks ago, 10:44 PM

Anonymous

i'm out for now!

gotta go load the dishwasher!(get the wife drunk!)

5 years 42 weeks ago, 10:46 PM

coldfront

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c ya next year guys

have a good one and good luck woth the grandma situation greasey

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 42 weeks ago, 10:48 PM

Ebear

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REMEMBER

THE EARLY BIRD CATCHES THE WORM, BUT THE SECOND MOUSE GETS THE CHEESE

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5 years 41 weeks ago, 10:04 PM

DEMO

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Duty to retreat in NY

In NY you have the duty to retreat. If the criminal is in your house robbing you- let him. Call the police, fall back. I was pissed when the instructor told us this in class. YOU have the burden of proof that YOUR life was in danger. How do I know if my life is in danger? Is the guy drunk and just looking for a place to sleep? Reminds me of Bill Clinton passing on Osama Bin Lauden saying he did not have proof of intention. Should I wait until he grabs my daughter?
In any event, my CCL became a hunting/target shooting permit 1Jan.
No right to self defense, only criminals get the benefit of doubt.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do
5 years 41 weeks ago, 11:12 PM

BluesHarp

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Why is it that

The United States of the Offended has given the criminals more rights than the law abbiding citizens? What is that all about? Why am I treated like a criminal when I defend myself? That is screwed up! This is nothing more than an attempt at disarming the public. This is gun control. They are making it so that law abbiding citizens would not want to carry a gun because of the ever increasing implications and the responsibilities that come with it. That is screwed up. The only people that this kind of action is going to affect is the lawful gun owner. I stated this in another post, but it bears repeating..."If the state that you live in is oppressive, then it is wise to move to a more friendly state." When I pull up stakes and relocate, this is something that influences my decision. I say give New York to the hippies and let them go down in flames. The criminals will take it over, since they will be the only ones with any rights there. The lawful citizens don't have a snowball's chance in Hell there.

Go ahead punk, Make My Day!
5 years 41 weeks ago, 1:07 PM

raffycanlas

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tell me about it

we have to be prosecuted like a madman if we defend ourselves from criminals, if we cant kill em, we still have to send them to jail and feed em with our hard earned tax money.

I'm just another damn yankee with a loaded gun looking for some fun!
5 years 41 weeks ago, 1:16 PM

samD

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We as armed and sometimes licensed to carry citizens, have to go through this whole process of analyzing the situation at hand. Is this imminent danger to me and mine. Have I given him/her a chance to back off. Is this a justified shooting all in micro seconds and that asshole badguy just has to pull the trigger with relatively no thought other than killing you!
Then we have to go to court to justify our actions if necessary.
This is where we need fija. Fully Informed Jury Association. We don't have to convict one of our peers if we the jury think, that it is an un-just law.
You won't ever hear a Judge or Atty tell you that. But it is our right to NOT CONVICT IF WE THINK THAT IT IS AN UN-JUST LAW!

www.fija.org
Read it yourself!

The primary function of the independent juror is not, as many think, to dispense punishment to fellow citizens accused of breaking various laws, but rather to protect fellow citizens from tyrannical abuses of power by government.

5 years 41 weeks ago, 1:45 PM

Shake N Bake

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Amen SamD

That's why it is a Jury of your peers, but unfortunitly that is not always what you will get, remenber dead men don't tell tales

Some families have long histories of tending to the tree of liberty, others have a long history of living in its shade.
5 years 41 weeks ago, 2:02 PM

coldfront

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Shake and Bake

hey, nice to see a fellow virginia. welcome

Confucious say: Go to bed itchy asshole, wake up stinky pinky
5 years 41 weeks ago, 2:31 PM

Shake N Bake

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I am from NC have a houes in OK and will most likly be moving to KY next year, Active duty will do it to you

Some families have long histories of tending to the tree of liberty, others have a long history of living in its shade.

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