Forums / Political & Legal / QUOTE TO THINK ABOUT...............

3 years 51 weeks ago, 11:13 AM

LLE

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"THE STRONGEST PEOPLE ARE NOT NECESSARILY THOSE WHO SHOW GREAT STRENGTH IN FRONT OF OUR EYES..............

STRONGER STILL, ARE THOSE WHO WIN BATTLES WE KNOW NOTHING ABOUT".

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Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
3 years 51 weeks ago, 4:48 PM

coppertop

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Speak softly but carry a big stick

3 years 51 weeks ago, 7:26 AM

LLE

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Do You........

walk to work or carry your lunch??

Teddy Roosevelt was a latter-day "manifest destiny" purveyor, who was an expasionist/interventionist, in the mold of Woodrow Wilson, and shared Wilson's contempt for the constitutional separation of powers so much so, that he arrogated more executive power than almost any other POTUS before or since. He would tell you that the three branches were co-equal, but that the Executive branch was MORE co-equal than the others.

Did he "speak softly"??---He was a loud-mouth--a proud user of the "bully pulpit".
Did he carry a "big stick"?? He sure did, and in a very threatening manner. In the early 1900's, he disapproved of the militancy of the Empire of Japan, and sent a visible threat in the form of a "great white fleet". Most historians agree that that threat gave the Japanese the idea and incentive to become the US of the far east. They built the largest and most state of the art Navy, which ultimately enabled them to conquer the territories that would make them the greatest power in the far east, and ULTIMATELY challenge the USA, if necessary. [remember Pearl Harbor??]

Moral to the story: "you ain't the only person who can make and carry a good,' big stick' ".

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
3 years 51 weeks ago, 8:39 PM

coppertop

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So Pearl Harbor was our fault? TR got shit done, and didn't suffer fools well. Maybe it's Reagan's fault for 9/11? If he hadn't projected power and beat the soviets in the Cold War, then the commies would still be fighting in Afghanistan instead of us. People have a habit of distorting reality due to their perceptions. If they like someone who is assertive, then they say that they are decisive or effective. If they don't like them, then they are a tyrant. Is the glass half full or half empty? Just look at our last 2 presidents. Both Bush and Obama have done things that goes against the constitution. Both spent money we don't have. So, which one is better? This is a rhetorical question. If you lean republican, then you will find an excuse for Bush. If you lean democrat, then you find excuses for Obama. The problem with presidents like Carter and Obama is that the president has to make decisions. To matter, those decisions need to be made timely. Those decisions often have to be made without perfect information. No matter how that decision ends, someone is not going to like it.

I have always tried to be like my grandfather. He never raised a fuss, but God help you if you pissed him off. That's why I like that quote of speak softly but carry a big stick. I don't go looking for trouble, but if trouble knocks on my door I'll give'em hell.

3 years 50 weeks ago, 10:38 AM

LLE

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was "our fault". I do not remember even intimating that 9/11 was Reagen's fault, or even talking about 9/11. I believe however, your assertion about perception may be faulty. Your reality is not mine, and vice versa..................perception IS reality, and thus, "reality" cannot be distorted, except perhaps by psychopathology.

Thanks for sharing your perceptions.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
3 years 50 weeks ago, 6:10 PM

coppertop

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Perception is not reality. Perception is ones interpretation of reality. No matter how much a person may believe in something, if it is not real, then it only exists in their mind. We can go back and forth as whether the firing of synapses in the brain is enough to qualify as being real, but doesn't change what is external to that person. Take the movement of the planets. At one time, to explain what they were seeing, they came up with epicycles. This conclusion was derived from the perception that the earth was the center and everything revolved around it. Later, that perception was proved false. Did reality change or just people's perception of reality. If a person perceives reality just as it is, then yes it is reality. The problem is that most people's perception is skewed by personal bias. In those cases, perception may not in fact be reality. All too often people see what they want to see.

3 years 50 weeks ago, 6:01 AM

LLE

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by hard science. The questionable validity begins with the hypothetical construct of "mind"--as in "it only exists in their mind". If you can show us one, you may very well be the next recipient of the Nobel Prize.

How would anyone KNOW what is real?

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
3 years 50 weeks ago, 8:46 AM

coppertop

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2 days for that? The Obama administration responded faster to Benghazi. Our mind takes all of our sensory sensations that is received through our eyes, ears, nose, taste, and touch and our "mind" translates that into our perception of the world around us. Why is it that ten people can experience the same event but have different explanations? We each perceive things differently. That perception does not change what is external. People used to perceive that the earth was flat. Well, is it? You keep saying that I'm wrong or that what I'm saying is not supportable yet you offer nothing of substance to support that. You want to suggest that we each have our own reality. The last person to make that argument to me was my drug addict father who blamed everyone else for his problems. Everyone can have their own opinion, but that opinion may not square with world around us.

3 years 50 weeks ago, 9:36 AM

LLE

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You have attempted to put words in my mouth---I never used the word "wrong", mostly because, IMO, there are few absolutes in this discussion. It is your privilege to use rudimentary assertions of what you believe the perceptual process consists of, and continue such argument ad infinitum. It is your privilege to insert irrelevancies like the movement of the planets and your drug addict father.

I challenge you to demonstrate the existence of the central factor in your argument, as in: "the "mind" translates that into our perception......" What is the "mind"? Where is it? What does it look like? Does it often malfunction in its receipt of sensory inputs? If it does malfunction, can it be fixed by medical intervention? If not, can it be replaced by a transplant?
I challenge you to tell us WHO would be the ultimate arbiter of WHAT in any given perceptual process, is the REAL reality. [or, as I asked before, how would anyone know?]

As for attempting to discredit my assertion that we all do have our own realitiy, I would suggest you consider some reading of the eminent thinkers on the subject. Not that they will prove my opinion--but so that you might perceive that the matter is far from settled.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
3 years 50 weeks ago, 2:57 PM

coppertop

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If you cared to reread my earlier post, I did address this problem. I stated that we could go back and forth about the firing of synapses and what was real. You made the absolute statement that perception is reality. You so far have refused to address the examples that I put forth about faulty perceptions. The "mind" is that grey matter between your ears. I use the word mind because up till now, most people understood what that ment. My field of study is not the brain, but I have had enough biology courses to learn how we receive input from the external world around us. How the brain deals with those inputs, that is beyond both our abilities. However, I think we can at least agree that a process is taking place. What I'm saying is that the world around us is not effected by that process. Yes, many philosophers have pondered if we are real or not. If that is the case here, then I suggest that you take the blue pill Neo. If you really want to push the boundaries, I can't prove God exists. So does that mean there is no God. Oops, there I go again putting words in your mouth.

I wonder why you think the faulty perception of epicycles or the ramblings of another person is irrelevant to a discussion about perceptions. You stated with conviction that perception is reality. If that is so, then we are both helocentric and terra centric. I would like to say that clearly, we are helocentric. But then who knows what objections you will come up with. You'll ask how could I know if the sun moves around us or that we move around the sun. I hope comparing you to my drugged up father upset you. It was ridiculous when he argued that we each have our own reality, didn't sound any better coming from you. He didn't want to face facts that he was responsible for his place in life. Once again, he had a perception of the world and his life. Just because he viewed things the way he did, did not make it true. It just made him sad and pathetic.

3 years 50 weeks ago, 6:16 AM

LLE

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bears no relationship to the usual assertions of behavioral and medical scientists--or for that matter the eminent philosophers, from Aristotle to the present. Therein lies the root of this disagreeable discussion...........which ironically reflects a difference in PERCEPTION. Most human organisms have a brain and a nervous system, but science has not to this day found one human organism who has "had" a mind.

And I will end my part of this difference in perception discussion by asking you if you believe there is a proven right or wrong, here, and if so, I would appreciate your citing this landmark discovery for us, instead of your use of irrelevancy, in order to "upset" me. [ Comparing a discussion opponent to a drug-user is an example of an ad hominem attack; attacking me personally does not prove your position.] I am not upset, but the fact that you had THAT hoped-for objective, tells us all something useful, about your level of emotional maturity.

I wish you clear perception for the future......................

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
3 years 50 weeks ago, 7:53 PM

coppertop

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Just a short stop on

Just a short stop on wikipedia may shed a little light here.

A mind is the complex of cognitive faculties that enables consciousnss, thinking, reasoning, perception, and judgement - a characteristic of human beings, but which also may apply to other life forms.

The entry does go on to disscribe the whole mind-body problem. However, the first line supports my use of the mind in our disscussion. In the common usage, the mind is where we perceive the world around us. If I'm wrong, then go rewrite wikipedia.

Perception is the orgainization, identification, and interpretation of sensory information in order to represent and understand the environment. All perception involves signals in the nervous system, which in turn results from physical stimulation of the sense organs. Perception is not the passive receipt of these signals, but can be shaped by learning, memeory, and expectation. In the case of visual perception, some people can actually see the percept shift in their mind's eye. Others, who are not picture thinkers, may not necessarily perceaive the shape-shifting as their world changes. The esemplastic nature has been shown by experiment an ambiguous image has multilple interpretations on the perceptual level.

Sounds kinda like what I had put forth just with less words. Not the earth shattering break through, just a little follow-up. You sir were wrong about perception and my take on the mind. The question is, can you own up to it? Or in your reality, your never wrong. Is the weather nice there?

3 years 45 weeks ago, 9:22 PM

coppertop

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This is the one

LLE wrote:
walk to work or carry your lunch??

Teddy Roosevelt was a latter-day "manifest destiny" purveyor, who was an expasionist/interventionist, in the mold of Woodrow Wilson, and shared Wilson's contempt for the constitutional separation of powers so much so, that he arrogated more executive power than almost any other POTUS before or since. He would tell you that the three branches were co-equal, but that the Executive branch was MORE co-equal than the others.

Did he "speak softly"??---He was a loud-mouth--a proud user of the "bully pulpit".
Did he carry a "big stick"?? He sure did, and in a very threatening manner. In the early 1900's, he disapproved of the militancy of the Empire of Japan, and sent a visible threat in the form of a "great white fleet". Most historians agree that that threat gave the Japanese the idea and incentive to become the US of the far east. They built the largest and most state of the art Navy, which ultimately enabled them to conquer the territories that would make them the greatest power in the far east, and ULTIMATELY challenge the USA, if necessary. [remember Pearl Harbor??]

Moral to the story: "you ain't the only person who can make and carry a good,' big stick' ".

So what do you really believe?

3 years 45 weeks ago, 1:20 PM

ptrudge

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really

LOL, Persistently anally retentive or anally retentively persistent ?

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3 years 51 weeks ago, 11:13 AM

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Rifle

"The rifle is a weapon. Let there be no mistake about that. It is a tool of power, and thus dependent completely upon the moral stature of its user. It is equally useful in securing meat for the table, destroying group enemies on the battlefield, and resisting tyranny. In fact, it is the only means of resisting tyranny, since a citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized. The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - The Late Jeff Cooper, The Art of the Rifle

"Guns are Liberty's Teeth" - Thomas Jefferson" Philip Trudgeon Shipping and Receiving Telephone (281) 568-5685 FAX (281) 568-9191
3 years 51 weeks ago, 11:33 AM

ptrudge

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"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." - Cicero - 55 BC

"Guns are Liberty's Teeth" - Thomas Jefferson" Philip Trudgeon Shipping and Receiving Telephone (281) 568-5685 FAX (281) 568-9191
3 years 50 weeks ago, 10:40 AM

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Short stop

Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty. - Thomas Jefferson

Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day. - Thomas Jefferson

"Guns are Liberty's Teeth" - Thomas Jefferson" Philip Trudgeon Shipping and Receiving Telephone (281) 568-5685 FAX (281) 568-9191

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