Forums / Gun Discussion / Rifle accuracy

3 years 28 weeks ago, 5:13 PM

Vaquero

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Rifle accuracy

Well, I said I would share some first hand stuff about what I've learned. I'm gonna take the easy way out. This link takes you to Hornady's website and the page it loads is word for word what I have in my Hornady manual. The graphics do a much better job of explaining what is printed.
In a nutshell, I have done everything by the book. Some details yeild impressive results, others, well, It can't hurt.

1. Sorting cases by manufacturer, My rifle don't seem to care.
2. fire formed brass, WOW, I use casings fired from my chamber and neck size only with a Lee collet die. These 2 adjustments made more difference than all others combined. It only works for bolt action rifles with a properly functioning extractor. (no they don't get stuck, but an auto wants to yank the expanded cartrige out before it can cool and retract. The cooling and retraction are fast enough to be of no consequense to a bolt action shooter but not as fast as an auto action cycling)
3. trimming cases, I did find a measurable difference at the range. I always measured my cases after resizing and found them to be "in tolerance" and didn't trim. When I decided to trim and de-burr the mouth I found an appreciable increase in accuracy. I think the de-burring lets the jacket of the bullet glide in when being seated therefore you have no jacket scarring which can upset balance.
4. Bullet seating depth, boy did I spend a lot of time on this one! Load 5, go shoot. Load 5, go shoot. on and on. I think it was worth it. Measurable difference at the range from .002" difference in overall length. But you still gotta load 'em in the mag! That one bit me, once!

enjoy.
http://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/internal

(in edit)
5. Powder dump, Iv'e said before, for my rifles I weigh every charge for every cartrige. I adjust the dump to get me as close as possible every time and normally add or remove granules at the scale. EXACT same charge time after time.

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
3 years 28 weeks ago, 5:50 PM

Vaquero

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The rifle

http://www.gunslot.com/pictures/ruger-77mkii-ultralite-243-simmons-3x9
Don't get me wrong, it shot good out of the box with ammo I had worked up for my .243 Browning lever action. I just had the time and the want to to see what I could accomplish.
Notice the indented stock, small diameter barrel, etc. This gun weighs in at just over 5 pounds and gives me .6" groups in all conditions. Extremely consistent to point of aim. I've moved 3 times since I found "the load" and sighted in at 2" high at 100 yds. I've never adjusted the scope since 1989. It does what I expect, every time. Confident is an understatement.

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3 years 28 weeks ago, 5:53 PM

ACE

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Thank U again Vaq!!

Im gonna use up all my new ink in my printer in about a weeks time @ this rate!!!

“When firearms go, all goes. We need them every hour.”- George Washington
3 years 28 weeks ago, 6:03 PM

Vaquero

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You are welcome ACE

Another tip that an old timer showed me.
When sighting in a scoped rifle, tap the scope sharply after turning the elevation and windage adjustments. This "settles" the crosshairs to a position less likely to be affected by inadvertent jarring or the jarring from recoil.
If I think of something else, I'll share it.
That's it for a while.

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3 years 28 weeks ago, 6:56 PM

Larry Wagner

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Howdy

Hello everybody, Hows everyone doing. Maby I can stay on for more than a few minutes at a time.
What ever is kicking me off is driving me nuts.

Any day above dirt is a good day!!! My New Motto: Where Do I Sign? (Oh yes I would)
3 years 28 weeks ago, 6:58 PM

ACE

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Hey Larry!!!

Whats up in Ur neck of the woods????

“When firearms go, all goes. We need them every hour.”- George Washington
3 years 28 weeks ago, 7:01 PM

Larry Wagner

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Ace

How's it going? Lot's of stuff going on here. Major weather yesterday & today, Hoping to see Greg, From the map.s he was right in the middle of it up where he's at.
So you finish up those test's yet???

Any day above dirt is a good day!!! My New Motto: Where Do I Sign? (Oh yes I would)
3 years 28 weeks ago, 7:12 PM

ACE

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Got 1 more Larry!!

I'll probably take it tonight or tomorrow!!! Im trying to get to work on Sam's rifle too!!! And I love storms!! Iv said this B 4, but I dont think 2 U.. Im a Ham Radio operator, and Local Weather Spotter. I learned from the best-my Dad!! I would B outside in the middle of the storms, (as a kid) keeping my Dad updated on the conditions. Iv followed a couple of tornadoes as an adult, but thats it. Its an adrenaline rush for me!! But I know its not for most people. Glad U faired thru the weather!!

“When firearms go, all goes. We need them every hour.”- George Washington
3 years 28 weeks ago, 7:04 PM

Vaquero

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Larry

Good evening! Yep, Greg said he kinda took it on the chin with the storms.
Hope all is well with you and yours.

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
3 years 28 weeks ago, 7:07 PM

Larry Wagner

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Vaq

Yea I kind of figured he would, Thing's got real bad up his way. As always, were still kickin here.
How you been Vaq?

Any day above dirt is a good day!!! My New Motto: Where Do I Sign? (Oh yes I would)
3 years 28 weeks ago, 7:04 PM

Larry Wagner

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Vaq

Hello Vaq, How you been?
You have been putting out some super info & this latest is no exception espically the powder dump & weighing charges, Man after my own heart. Good work & great info.

Any day above dirt is a good day!!! My New Motto: Where Do I Sign? (Oh yes I would)
3 years 28 weeks ago, 7:13 PM

Vaquero

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Larry

Thanks! I don't have the "relaying of information" skills that I wish I had. If I got someone in front of me and can "hands on" demonstrate I do OK. This written word stuff just handicaps me.
Awful glad to hear you are still kickin'.

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
3 years 28 weeks ago, 7:15 PM

Larry Wagner

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Ace

Yea I love a good storm also, & a lot of times have set right in the middle of them.
My wife is different, something wrong with her, she hate's storms:):):)

Any day above dirt is a good day!!! My New Motto: Where Do I Sign? (Oh yes I would)
3 years 28 weeks ago, 7:17 PM

Larry Wagner

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Vaq

If I were you, I would not worry to much about that "written word" stuff. From what I have read, you do a real fine job, I like it.

Any day above dirt is a good day!!! My New Motto: Where Do I Sign? (Oh yes I would)
3 years 28 weeks ago, 7:19 PM

ACE

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I dont think

Theres anything wrong w her, she's just a frady cat!! LOL!! I know a lot of people that R!! It no big shame!! That should give U another reason to B able to cuddle!! LOL!!

“When firearms go, all goes. We need them every hour.”- George Washington
3 years 28 weeks ago, 7:20 PM

Larry Wagner

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Vaq

You just had to tell me about your Browning Lever didn't you? Been on my wish list for years, Love em, will have one someday.

Any day above dirt is a good day!!! My New Motto: Where Do I Sign? (Oh yes I would)
3 years 28 weeks ago, 7:21 PM

Larry Wagner

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Ace

Yep it sure does, any reason is a good one :):):)

Any day above dirt is a good day!!! My New Motto: Where Do I Sign? (Oh yes I would)
3 years 28 weeks ago, 7:25 PM

ACE

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And sometimes

No reason @ all is even better!!!

“When firearms go, all goes. We need them every hour.”- George Washington
3 years 28 weeks ago, 7:26 PM

Larry Wagner

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Ace

Yup, that goes on a lot also:):):)

Any day above dirt is a good day!!! My New Motto: Where Do I Sign? (Oh yes I would)
3 years 28 weeks ago, 7:38 PM

ACE

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Larry

Iv told Vaquero this, and I think I did U also, but reading what ya'll post about Ur relationships on here, does this girls heart some good!! Little girls always dream of growing up, and marrying a man that truly loves them. But its looking like this little girls dreams are gonna get flip-flopped. After this marriage, (If I dont kill him first) I think I will go the way of the lesbian!!! LOL!! Or just jump on the celibate train!!!

“When firearms go, all goes. We need them every hour.”- George Washington
3 years 28 weeks ago, 7:47 PM

Larry Wagner

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Ace

Hey kiddo,
He's out there for you,
We can figure how you feel, but can that kill stuff, Believe me, you wont like a cell, especially day after day, year after year, for what could be the rest of your life. Like I told ya before, it aint gonna be easy but remedy the situation for you & your daughter before the
non reversible stuff happens. Were all here for ya, you know that.

Any day above dirt is a good day!!! My New Motto: Where Do I Sign? (Oh yes I would)
3 years 28 weeks ago, 7:51 PM

Larry Wagner

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Later

Well folks, the computer didn't screw up tonight, that's a good thing. Gonna jump off here & go
beat on my guitar for a while. see ya all after while.

Any day above dirt is a good day!!! My New Motto: Where Do I Sign? (Oh yes I would)
3 years 28 weeks ago, 7:51 PM

ACE

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Larry!!

U have a PM Sir!!

“When firearms go, all goes. We need them every hour.”- George Washington
3 years 28 weeks ago, 7:55 PM

Vaquero

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Larry

Take care bud, Catch ya later

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
3 years 28 weeks ago, 7:58 PM

ACE

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Good night Larry!!!

Go do some "shredding" on that guitar!!! LOL!! Have a good night!!

“When firearms go, all goes. We need them every hour.”- George Washington
3 years 28 weeks ago, 10:01 PM

Larry Wagner

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Howdy

Hello again, OK my fingers are sufficiently done for one night, How's everyone??

Any day above dirt is a good day!!! My New Motto: Where Do I Sign? (Oh yes I would)
3 years 28 weeks ago, 10:08 PM

Larry Wagner

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OK, Boob tube time for this old boob. see ya all.

Any day above dirt is a good day!!! My New Motto: Where Do I Sign? (Oh yes I would)
3 years 27 weeks ago, 7:37 PM

runawaygun762

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Vaquero

The only time you'll really see a difference when using various MFR cases is when you chrono the loads. Manufacturers will have slightly different case capacities based on thickness of the case walls and slight variances in overall dimensions. This results in slightly different ignition times and can result in slightly different velocities. I know some rifle shooters who sort according to manufacturer, then lot number, then dimensions, then they even weigh each empty casing to get the most consistency they can. Practical accuracy for us normal slobs isn't much affected, but when you're at the skill and equipment level where you're shooting sub-2" groups at 500 yards and more, everything matters.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
3 years 27 weeks ago, 7:44 PM

Vaquero

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Runs

Agreed, to a point. In the .243 there seems to be an almost unnoticeable difference in capacity, or volume, of the empty case. In my .223 I have and utilize many military cases. (yeah, reaming primer pockets sucks) If I use the same powder charge in a W-W Super X and a WWCC headstamp, the powder will be below the neck of a W-W but almost overflow the WWCC (milsurp) case. I have to watch these much closer.
That is 28 gr of Win 748 powder.

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3 years 27 weeks ago, 7:50 PM

runawaygun762

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but if you have casings of identical outside dimensions but different weights, then you know the capacity is slightly different. like I said, this makes no difference to us normal folks, but the real long range precision guys will do what they can to mitigate it.

What is WWCC in .223? The only US military .223 ammo I'm ever seen has the Lake City headstamp.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
3 years 27 weeks ago, 7:53 PM

Vaquero

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Runs

Sorry, it's WCC, Winchester Cartrige Company. Most of mine are WCC 73.
Some pretty old stuff but damn good brass.
I'll have to take a look at some of the others. Seems like LC does ring a bell too.

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3 years 27 weeks ago, 11:38 PM

runawaygun762

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Winchester and has the WCC headstamp, but I haven't seen any 5.56, 7.62, or .50 made by anyone other than Lake City. I know there is some commercial stuff in the inventory, they just don't give it to us regular joes.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
3 years 27 weeks ago, 9:59 AM

Vaquero

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Headstamps

I just checked, the LC are 73.
The WCC are 83, just my bad memory and dislexia.

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