Forums / Gun Discussion / SA Pistols won't fire out of battery

3 years 9 weeks ago, 1:20 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

Saint J.M. Browning's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3482
Join Date:
Feb 2011
Location:
The Colony, Texas, United States

I know that the 1911 will not fire when it is out of battery. Is this true for all semi-auto pistols? I would think it would be, but I was thinking about it the other day and got curious. I like to be sure about things. So, does anyone know about this?

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 9 weeks ago, 1:28 PM

Ishootdaily

Ishootdaily's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
4375
Join Date:
Feb 2009
Location:
Saint Petersburg, Florida, United States
Single Action

DA/SA = Double Action sets sear ready to fire upon a full pulled of the trigger, Single Action for every shot there after. Or can be carried in Condition 1, cocked and locked. or Condition 2 Hammer down round in chamber, first shot Dbl Action.

DAO = Double Action Only, sear is reset each time the trigger is pulled all the way though, Condition 2, round chambers hammer down.

SA = Single action hammer drawn back and sear set to fire, condition 1, cocked and locked.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 9 weeks ago, 2:19 PM

TXLUCKYGUY

TXLUCKYGUY's picture

Rank:
Major General
Points:
378
Join Date:
Dec 2009
depends

No proper firearm should fire out of battery since this is an unsafe condition.

Fixed-barrel semi-autos, esp. with a barrel that extends beyond the front of the muzzle (think Makarov w/threaded barrel or a Ruger MkII) don't usually get pushed out of battery by contact shots and may function better.

If this is your consideration, be aware that any firearm shot in contact with a person may malfunction due to avulsed tissue getting into the barrel; Mas Ayoob had a case study where this happened (S&W auto if memory serves).

There are some fantastically ugly add-ons to keep a 1911 in battery during a contact shot or gun grab; likewise some suppressed pistols have special slide locks that solve this problem (although the intent is to keep the breach closed for noise suppression and no ejected case).

Glock and SIG service pistols can all be pushed out of battery on a contact shot; same holds true for every brand of police or military pistol I've fired. I can't recall but I think the Desert Eagle and a couple of other odd ones stay in battery better than standard Browning-style (BHP, 1911, Glock, SIG) or Luger-style (P38, Beretta) pistols.

3 years 9 weeks ago, 2:51 PM

Ishootdaily

Ishootdaily's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
4375
Join Date:
Feb 2009
Location:
Saint Petersburg, Florida, United States
True enough.

I'd think striker fired pistols could still fire as long as the distance between the face of the striker can contact the primer...

GLock can do it and it also seems the M&P can do it, I would assume that all striker pistols can do it unless design to not allow it...

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 9 weeks ago, 9:05 AM

ddamico

ddamico's picture

Rank:
Master Sergeant
Points:
18
Join Date:
Feb 2011
Location:
Suffolk, , VA, United States

any semi-auto pistol won't fire out of battery. but it depends on how much out of battery the slide is. even a striker fired weapon like glock, XD, or M&P will not fire out of battery if the slide is stuck slightly to the rear for whatever reason. I have seen weapos so dirty the the gun would not go into full battery.

3 years 9 weeks ago, 9:46 PM

Ishootdaily

Ishootdaily's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
4375
Join Date:
Feb 2009
Location:
Saint Petersburg, Florida, United States

It is either in or out....

http://thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb-faq.html

Now if your asking that someone holding the pistol slide so that the weapons is no where near being in battery, then, no...

The only reason pistols with firing pins do not do it is because the hammer has to clear the material below then firing pin. Otherwise if it could get to the primer then it would as long as the tip of the firing pin was able to make solid enough contact.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 9 weeks ago, 12:22 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

Saint J.M. Browning's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3482
Join Date:
Feb 2011
Location:
The Colony, Texas, United States
txluckyguy

Yeah, that's what I was kinda getting at. Twofold really. Contact shots and gun grabs. Just kinda thinking about it and wondering if someone grabs my pistol and pushes it out of battery, could I pull back and fire and whether this would be a practical defense against a threat armed with such a pistol. Not that I would count on it or plan it, but if worse came to worse...
Also, I wasn't sure if it was a limitation of the 1911 due to its design of having the barrel tilt to disengage the lugs or if it also occurred with pistols that utilize the rotating barrel locking. I didn't even think about semis without slides, like the Luger. I forgot they exist. :)

ISD, sorry, I know the normal usage of SA is to indicate single action, but in this case I meant semi-auto. I had the same view on the Texas CCP. It uses SA to mean semi-autos, but I was thinking to myself "that's single action."

So, one last question regarding this subject, if the pistol somehow does fire out of battery, what is the detriment? The gas leaking out of the ejection port? I couldn't think of any other detriment.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 9 weeks ago, 9:33 PM

Ishootdaily

Ishootdaily's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
4375
Join Date:
Feb 2009
Location:
Saint Petersburg, Florida, United States
kejame35y

dumb ass, no one is going to click on any of those stupid ass links......

You really are doing nothing but waisting your time here. Considering Gun owners think unlike stooges who just click on crap...

By the way, almost 100% of the spam crap are from bogus crooked sites and we tend to let people know exactly that...

go away..

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 9 weeks ago, 10:37 PM

clintlebo

clintlebo's picture


Rank:
General
Points:
2309
Join Date:
Aug 2008
Location:
land, of confusion, United States
dont worry ISD

I am on the case

Photobucket

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin & Hobbes)
3 years 8 weeks ago, 8:07 AM

TXLUCKYGUY

TXLUCKYGUY's picture

Rank:
Major General
Points:
378
Join Date:
Dec 2009
out of battery

1. Firing out of battery can easily jam up a gun to the point where it takes tools/time to fix it (i.e., it's done as a weapon for the fight you're in at the moment). It can also cause injury, via catastrophic failure....think frags...or just from the gas/heat.

2. Several progressive police agencies teach a contact shot (Glocks) where the shooting thumb or offhand is pressed agains the back of the slide to keep the gun in battery...single shot is fired, step pack and push away from the opponent, tap-rack to clear the gun for another shot if needed. It is doable and easily proveable both in live fire on static targets or with sims and protective gear.

3. Whenever I teach retention to my guys, I frequently use a cleared/inspected pistol with either a primed case (no powder/bullet) or Simunitions to illustrate the point that you cannot expect any gun (revolver, DA, SA, whatever) to function properly or be immune to interference in a close fight. Many times my students will tell me that "oh I'd just shoot you", only to find out that my marking knife has found it's way to their neck or junk about the same time I've taken their gun out of the fight. Eye ear and body pro is a must if you induldge in something like this.

Have a plan for your pistol taking a dump during a fight, and make sure that plan fits your mission and equipment.

3 years 8 weeks ago, 8:42 AM

Ishootdaily

Ishootdaily's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
4375
Join Date:
Feb 2009
Location:
Saint Petersburg, Florida, United States

the mind set when deciding to defend yourself. It is for real and to win...

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 8 weeks ago, 10:12 AM

Saint J.M. Browning

Saint J.M. Browning's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3482
Join Date:
Feb 2011
Location:
The Colony, Texas, United States

Thanks all. TxLG, are you LE then? Where in Texas are you? I sent you a friend request BTW.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 8 weeks ago, 4:02 AM

TXLUCKYGUY

TXLUCKYGUY's picture

Rank:
Major General
Points:
378
Join Date:
Dec 2009
yup

I are 'the Man'. I guess the closest big city to me would be Dallas.

3 years 8 weeks ago, 2:34 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

Saint J.M. Browning's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3482
Join Date:
Feb 2011
Location:
The Colony, Texas, United States
TLG

I'm in the Metroplex myself. I live in The Colony north of Dallas and south of Denton.

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
3 years 8 weeks ago, 9:23 AM

Ishootdaily

Ishootdaily's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
4375
Join Date:
Feb 2009
Location:
Saint Petersburg, Florida, United States

enough it doesn't surprise me anymore. People in general do not understand just how fast you can bleed out or how fast a knife fighter can be.

Kabar TDI is a beautiful thing....

Also some get size confused with success in a psychical confrontation. I've had guys tell me how they like to get their hands on an opponent and it is over. They evidently have not run into anyone who knows close in can be the most deadly place to find yourself.

Haven't been to Dallas since 1980, went to the Texas Jam at the stadium. Rock-Lhoma that year also. I was stationed at Tinker AFB back then.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
3 years 8 weeks ago, 2:52 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

Saint J.M. Browning's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3482
Join Date:
Feb 2011
Location:
The Colony, Texas, United States
Ditto

on the stupid "the guy with the gun wins" mentality. I've seen demonstrations of a cop with a holstered weapon not being able and draw fast enough to stop a trained fighter with a knife from so many yards away. I can't remember the exact amount, but it was a good distance. Enough that I thought I would have been comfortable too.
I also hate that when it comes to people complaining about someone defending themselves against a knife wielder. "he just had a knife, you didn't have to shoot him". Idiots. I'd like to see them disarm that person.

The Texas Jam. Good times, good times...

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon

Who's Online

Guns Lot Activity
Users
Currently Active Users: 1041 (0 members and 1041 guests)

Guns Lot Statistics
Stats Topics: 8,639, Comments: 160,795, Members: 23,517
Welcome our newest member: Hank6046

Recent Activity