that is the most one sided propaganda BS i have seen since Obama's campaign.
are we supposed to believe that our soldiers are just over there running in the streets murdering innocent people....WTF? i was there in '91, i know what the majority of those people are capable of, and you can't distinguish between the good and bad. the people who came to us open armed crying, begging for food and protection from Saddam, were the same ones who after getting their bellies full found a rifle and shot at us.
If you do not stand behind our troops...please stand in front of them....
snake is confused again. too much white lightening.
snake- don't believe everything you read! We are over there doing our job! of course there will be civilian casualties every once in a while... and these people are using them to make the US look like a reckless gang of hooligans. I guarantee their poorly planned attacks, IED blasts, shooting RPG's from rooftops and neighborhoods etc... cause just as many civilian casualties as we do.
"Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
what did you guys think about that its kinda long you could skip the first 20 or so min im not a conspericy theorist but you should watch it might raise a question or two
No Mention of why we went....No mention of the 550 Kg of yellow cake Uranium we removed from Iraq. No mention of Sudaam murdering civilians in a genoside. No mention of Sudaam's oil for food scandal funnelling money to terrist groups. No mention of how many Iranian IED's caused civilian deaths.
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do
I'm not even sure what to say........that shit is evil.....can you believe that shit? I guess we can only pray that that is only a small portion of the community over there that believes that shit.....and that our troops bring them all down.....
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses
I can tell you first hand--when you get in a war, there will be "collateral damage". If you are concerned more with political correctness and how you look, rather than winning, you may as well surrender. Our value system has been to walk the edges of the Geneva Convention, but if we have an enemy which chooses to disguise itself and imbed itself among the civilian population, extreme measures MUST be taken. When extreme measures are taken, pictures like those shown, become available to, or are fabricated by, the enemy propagandists.
Both sides, or all sides will use misinformation, disinformation and psy-war, in the world at large, on the home front, behind the battle lines, and on the battlefield. The messages directed at each of these groups, many times, are completely different from one another. The objective is to convince each particular group of people that a particular set of "facts" is absolutely true, when, in most cases that set of "facts" is the purest of bullshit. When you have an enemy who has chosen to disguise itself and imbed itself in the surrounding population, do you believe they would not take ANY opportunity to create a highly emotional, fabricated reality to manipulate public opinion in the USA?
A wise Yankee warrior once said something like this:
"Some of you young men think war is all glamor and glory, but let me tell you, boys, it is ALL HELL!!" Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, Airmen, Coast Guarders get killed or maimed. So do Civilians....Remember 9/11??
"When you have to shoot-----shoot, Don't talk".......Tuco, the Ugly; The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly.
"We have met the Enemy, and He is Us"........Pogo Possum
What i mean by sad is that site was trying to make our troops look bad. That Website is one sided. Civillian Casultys are just a part of war always have been. No one should make us look bad.
"War is God's way of teaching Americans geography."
- Ambrose Bierce
Not only does this go on during a war, but all the countries over here have the government controlling what their people see at some level. Brainwashing! In addition, if you look deeper into the media in Europe, you will see that even our allies will always put us in the worst light possible. We are despised by enemy and simply tolerated by our allies...
Patrolman Kato
Chuck Norris bites the hand that feeds him and eats their entrails!
They are our allies because we give them Billions of $$$ in Foreign Aid. When we stop the aid they will no longer be our friends. Read, study & learn. Thats what libraries and schools are for.
samD
لن أستسلم لموتُ لالاس "I will not submit.Death to Islam!"
The Socialists told us long ago that since they could not beat us with force, that they would destroy us slowly from within. So far it is working pretty well. MOLON LABE
You need to practice and learn. You are a young man, you need to go to remedial reading classes. Find out if you are dyslexic. It is up to you, but you can overcome this. I was not berating you or putting you down. You just need some help & guidance...
لن أستسلم لموتُ لالاس "I will not submit.Death to Islam!"
The Socialists told us long ago that since they could not beat us with force, that they would destroy us slowly from within. So far it is working pretty well. MOLON LABE
very supportive and fight with us, no arguing...some left early, some didn't come, all of it mostly out of pressure by their citizens or media or both...that's fine though. However, the Europeans value socialism over capitalism, it's obvious to me anyway that they are closer to being a socialist state than a capitalist (varying degrees of course from one country to another). But this has gotten them into trouble in recent years. I know this is mostly my opinion, but I do read a lot and I do also read books from the left/democrats etc...The Europeans see our system as flawed and feel that we should be more like them. But a lot of people will argue that what they have built there in Europe is eroding from the inside. The replacement rates are less than 2.1 (all countries in Europe), which means they cannot survive...over time they will disappear (some say by 2040 Italy and Germany will be gone as we know them today). But, because of the welfare state mentaility, they now have many more people collecting huge sums of money from the government and not enough people putting money in (taxes)...so what did they do? They made it easy for middle eastern citizens to go to Europe...what are most of them? Muslims...their replacement rates are astronomical...the highest in the world!!! What is the outcome of that equation? Ok...to make matters worse, they offer all these new citizens (most of whom do not become a British citizen or a French citizen...or at least large numbers do not). A lot go on welfare also, which only makes the situation worse. Europe wanted them to come and work and pay taxes, but too many haven't...they just collect, the plan is backfiring as I write this. Also, since most are Muslim, they keep beliefs from their countries, including marrying multiple women and having more and more kids...it's a vicious cycle. Many European countries have begun limiting all of this now...it's crazy! Ok, to get to my point. It's the European attitude of entitlement and government taking care of people to the extent possible without requiring anything of them which got them into trouble. Up to recently the US has resisted moving in this direction, but Bush, Clinton, Bush and now Obama (which I don't for sure what he will do), but all of them have slowly inched towards this mentality...small changes, one at a time or a few small ones at a time and eventually we will be there too. Our replacement rate in the US is 2.1, the bare minimum (and mostly that is due to Hispanics having large numbers of children) to keep our population at an even kilt. European elite see us as their opposite...France's President has said that he admires our government (one of the only ones to state this), but it's changing as I type this. It's a delicate balance between helping citizens and interfering too much. I know this is a lot to digest and when I say our allies don't support us, what I mean is there is a feeling by a lot of European elite/media who feel we need to change, be more like them, so when there is a chance to write a story which makes us look negative, they will print it immediateley, but if it's something that would make us look great, maybe not as much chance to get it written or publicized. For example, remember the story about British troops who were accused of abusing Iraqi prisoners? It was front page news everywhere...only to find out later it was staged by Iraqis...put out before it was confirmed yet when they found out it was false, they just put one story out. Look how Abu Ghraib was handled....week after week of stories...we do a lot of good things over here...you don't hear about shit back in the states. It's amazing...
Anyway, that's my opinion, based on some things I read, what I see and my experiences of 26 years in the military. Snake, I will tell you with all honesty, the military folks I have met (ALL SERVICES) are some of the most caring, honest, selfless people you will ever meet...of course, there are some bad apples, as in every group...but we simply have the finest people in the military these days! I can tell you that from experience...we have folks giving to charities while they make 25K per year and have families of their own. It's actually pretty humbling to see first hand what military members and their families sacrafice.
Sorry for this being so long.
I am at work here in Kuwait and it's just a nice quiet night!
Happy Holidays
Patrolman Kato
Chuck Norris bites the hand that feeds him and eats their entrails!
Thank you, very insightful and succinct. We are moving to far left as I have said for years now. I have been called every name in the book on this sight. I am just 1 man in the middle, asking people to wake up to incrementalism. It will and is slowly sinking this great nation. The only reason Socialism hasn't worked so far, according to the Socialists, is because the right people haven't been in charge. Most are elitists and think they know more than the rest of us rabble...
لن أستسلم لموتُ لالاس "I will not submit.Death to Islam!"
The Socialists told us long ago that since they could not beat us with force, that they would destroy us slowly from within. So far it is working pretty well. MOLON LABE
well writin artical,i had realy no idea of this going on in europe a will have to look into this thats what i like about this sight im always learning something new from a lot of people that think similer to me
I suggest you read...I read a great book, by a homosexual man, who lived in the US (NYC)right before 9-11, was from there and moved to Europe because he thought they were more willing to accept him...open minded, get his book, it is eye-opening!!! I will get you the name of it. He certainly was not writing as a conservative. Also, a Candadian: Mark Steyn
This just pisses me off. What we have here is just another example of left wing journalism. First of all where is the documentation to support these figures? Second: how many of these so called "civilian" casualities are actually insurgent/terrorist? Or killed by insurgent/terrorist? And third if these people would take responsibilty for their own country, and conduct themselves in an civilized manner we wouldn't be there to start with. The people of these countries have sat placidly by and let these thugs take over . Whether you believe we should be in Iraq or not, the bottom line is this war was started by Muslim extremist. (see 9/11/01) If we have to go get them over there to keep them from coming over here, I for one am all for it. If you won't clean up your own mess don't complain when the U.S. military comes knocking. To all those who serve or have served: You make us proud everyday. Do not think for a minute that these assholes represent what the average American thinks. They sure don't speak for old 225. Thank you for your service and God bless.
Democracy is two wolfs and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed sheep contesting the vote.
over in this part of the world, you would understand their mentality. In Kuwait, there are approximately 500,000 Kuwaitis, but there are more than 1,000,000 million others who are here strictly to do the jobs the Kuwaits feel are beneath them. Do you expect these people to do the hard jobs??? Like take control of the country! That's why dictators and extremists control these mindless people in the first place...STRONGEST HORSE!
Patrolman Kato
Chuck Norris bites the hand that feeds him and eats their entrails!
and your point is well taken. But my point is simply this: If you as a people sit idly by and allow terrorist and thugs to run rampant in your country, do not be surprised if other nations get p.o'd and do something about it. Especially if those safely harbored plan and execute an attack such as 9/11. I am deeply saddened by the loss of innocent life, and would never condone indescriminate killing of innocents. All I know is 230 some odd years ago some people didn't like the way they were being oppressed, and a rag tag militia and a poorly trained and equipped Continetal Army stood up and did something about it. I know it is not the same but the fact remains, the inaction of many condone the actions of a few.
Democracy is two wolfs and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed sheep contesting the vote.
My number were off, but I believe the percentage was in the ball park...sorry for that mistake.
As of 2007, Kuwait's population was estimated to be 3 to 3.5 million people which included approximately 2 million non-nationals.[49] Kuwaiti citizens are therefore a minority of those who reside in Kuwait. The government rarely grants citizenship to foreigners to maintain status quo.[50]
About 57% of the Kuwaiti population is Arab, 39% Asian (including people from South Asia), and 4% are classified Bidoon.[12] Bidoons are a group of stateless Arab residents of Kuwait. Other large groups of expatriates include Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Filipinos. In 2003, more than 400,000 Indian nationals lived in Kuwait,[51] making them the largest expatriate community there.[52] After Kuwait was liberated from Iraqi occupation, most of the 400,000 Palestinians living in Kuwait were expelled because of their government's open support for the Iraqi forces. Only a few thousand Palestinians remain in Kuwait.[53] The population of ethnic Armenians in Kuwait also shrank drastically following the events of the Iraq-Kuwait war.[54]
80% of Kuwait's population practices Islam.[12] Despite Islam being a state religion,[55] Kuwait has large communities of Christians (est. 300,000 to 400,000), Hindus (est. 300,000), Buddhists (est. 100,000), and Sikhs (est. 10,000).[56] Of the Muslims in Kuwait, 70% are Sunni and 30% are Shia Muslims.[7] Kuwait's official language is Arabic, though English is widely spoken. Other important languages include Malayalam, Tamil, Hindi, Urdu, Bengali, and Filipino.
Patrolman Kato
Chuck Norris bites the hand that feeds him and eats their entrails!
Snake
read
comment
FreedomMilitaria
that is the most one sided propaganda BS i have seen since Obama's campaign.
are we supposed to believe that our soldiers are just over there running in the streets murdering innocent people....WTF? i was there in '91, i know what the majority of those people are capable of, and you can't distinguish between the good and bad. the people who came to us open armed crying, begging for food and protection from Saddam, were the same ones who after getting their bellies full found a rifle and shot at us.
Reaper308
snake is confused again. too much white lightening.
snake- don't believe everything you read! We are over there doing our job! of course there will be civilian casualties every once in a while... and these people are using them to make the US look like a reckless gang of hooligans. I guarantee their poorly planned attacks, IED blasts, shooting RPG's from rooftops and neighborhoods etc... cause just as many civilian casualties as we do.
2chuck
what did you guys think about that its kinda long you could skip the first 20 or so min im not a conspericy theorist but you should watch it might raise a question or two
2chuck
I do agree about this being one sided don't get me wrong trying to make our troops look bad
DEMO
No Mention of why we went....No mention of the 550 Kg of yellow cake Uranium we removed from Iraq. No mention of Sudaam murdering civilians in a genoside. No mention of Sudaam's oil for food scandal funnelling money to terrist groups. No mention of how many Iranian IED's caused civilian deaths.
ssrs10
I'm not even sure what to say........that shit is evil.....can you believe that shit? I guess we can only pray that that is only a small portion of the community over there that believes that shit.....and that our troops bring them all down.....
LLE
I can tell you first hand--when you get in a war, there will be "collateral damage". If you are concerned more with political correctness and how you look, rather than winning, you may as well surrender. Our value system has been to walk the edges of the Geneva Convention, but if we have an enemy which chooses to disguise itself and imbed itself among the civilian population, extreme measures MUST be taken. When extreme measures are taken, pictures like those shown, become available to, or are fabricated by, the enemy propagandists.
Both sides, or all sides will use misinformation, disinformation and psy-war, in the world at large, on the home front, behind the battle lines, and on the battlefield. The messages directed at each of these groups, many times, are completely different from one another. The objective is to convince each particular group of people that a particular set of "facts" is absolutely true, when, in most cases that set of "facts" is the purest of bullshit. When you have an enemy who has chosen to disguise itself and imbed itself in the surrounding population, do you believe they would not take ANY opportunity to create a highly emotional, fabricated reality to manipulate public opinion in the USA?
A wise Yankee warrior once said something like this:
"Some of you young men think war is all glamor and glory, but let me tell you, boys, it is ALL HELL!!" Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, Airmen, Coast Guarders get killed or maimed. So do Civilians....Remember 9/11??
Snake
What i mean by sad is that site was trying to make our troops look bad. That Website is one sided. Civillian Casultys are just a part of war always have been. No one should make us look bad.
Reaper308
Nice come back!
Snake
What did you think i meant?
Reaper308
look
read
comment
Pkato
Not only does this go on during a war, but all the countries over here have the government controlling what their people see at some level. Brainwashing! In addition, if you look deeper into the media in Europe, you will see that even our allies will always put us in the worst light possible. We are despised by enemy and simply tolerated by our allies...
Chuck Norris bites the hand that feeds him and eats their entrails!
Snake
what do ya mean "Tolerated by our allies..." If they dont like us then why do they help us?
samD
They are our allies because we give them Billions of $$$ in Foreign Aid. When we stop the aid they will no longer be our friends. Read, study & learn. Thats what libraries and schools are for.
samD
Snake
This is kinda of.....well i....oh hell I CANT READ TO GOOD!!!! There i said it. Sorry....
samD
You need to practice and learn. You are a young man, you need to go to remedial reading classes. Find out if you are dyslexic. It is up to you, but you can overcome this. I was not berating you or putting you down. You just need some help & guidance...
Pkato
very supportive and fight with us, no arguing...some left early, some didn't come, all of it mostly out of pressure by their citizens or media or both...that's fine though. However, the Europeans value socialism over capitalism, it's obvious to me anyway that they are closer to being a socialist state than a capitalist (varying degrees of course from one country to another). But this has gotten them into trouble in recent years. I know this is mostly my opinion, but I do read a lot and I do also read books from the left/democrats etc...The Europeans see our system as flawed and feel that we should be more like them. But a lot of people will argue that what they have built there in Europe is eroding from the inside. The replacement rates are less than 2.1 (all countries in Europe), which means they cannot survive...over time they will disappear (some say by 2040 Italy and Germany will be gone as we know them today). But, because of the welfare state mentaility, they now have many more people collecting huge sums of money from the government and not enough people putting money in (taxes)...so what did they do? They made it easy for middle eastern citizens to go to Europe...what are most of them? Muslims...their replacement rates are astronomical...the highest in the world!!! What is the outcome of that equation? Ok...to make matters worse, they offer all these new citizens (most of whom do not become a British citizen or a French citizen...or at least large numbers do not). A lot go on welfare also, which only makes the situation worse. Europe wanted them to come and work and pay taxes, but too many haven't...they just collect, the plan is backfiring as I write this. Also, since most are Muslim, they keep beliefs from their countries, including marrying multiple women and having more and more kids...it's a vicious cycle. Many European countries have begun limiting all of this now...it's crazy! Ok, to get to my point. It's the European attitude of entitlement and government taking care of people to the extent possible without requiring anything of them which got them into trouble. Up to recently the US has resisted moving in this direction, but Bush, Clinton, Bush and now Obama (which I don't for sure what he will do), but all of them have slowly inched towards this mentality...small changes, one at a time or a few small ones at a time and eventually we will be there too. Our replacement rate in the US is 2.1, the bare minimum (and mostly that is due to Hispanics having large numbers of children) to keep our population at an even kilt. European elite see us as their opposite...France's President has said that he admires our government (one of the only ones to state this), but it's changing as I type this. It's a delicate balance between helping citizens and interfering too much. I know this is a lot to digest and when I say our allies don't support us, what I mean is there is a feeling by a lot of European elite/media who feel we need to change, be more like them, so when there is a chance to write a story which makes us look negative, they will print it immediateley, but if it's something that would make us look great, maybe not as much chance to get it written or publicized. For example, remember the story about British troops who were accused of abusing Iraqi prisoners? It was front page news everywhere...only to find out later it was staged by Iraqis...put out before it was confirmed yet when they found out it was false, they just put one story out. Look how Abu Ghraib was handled....week after week of stories...we do a lot of good things over here...you don't hear about shit back in the states. It's amazing...
Anyway, that's my opinion, based on some things I read, what I see and my experiences of 26 years in the military. Snake, I will tell you with all honesty, the military folks I have met (ALL SERVICES) are some of the most caring, honest, selfless people you will ever meet...of course, there are some bad apples, as in every group...but we simply have the finest people in the military these days! I can tell you that from experience...we have folks giving to charities while they make 25K per year and have families of their own. It's actually pretty humbling to see first hand what military members and their families sacrafice.
Sorry for this being so long.
I am at work here in Kuwait and it's just a nice quiet night!
Happy Holidays
Chuck Norris bites the hand that feeds him and eats their entrails!
samD
Thank you, very insightful and succinct. We are moving to far left as I have said for years now. I have been called every name in the book on this sight. I am just 1 man in the middle, asking people to wake up to incrementalism. It will and is slowly sinking this great nation. The only reason Socialism hasn't worked so far, according to the Socialists, is because the right people haven't been in charge. Most are elitists and think they know more than the rest of us rabble...
Snake
Thank you. I will take a few evenin' class at the wreck center.
2chuck
well writin artical,i had realy no idea of this going on in europe a will have to look into this thats what i like about this sight im always learning something new from a lot of people that think similer to me
Pkato
I suggest you read...I read a great book, by a homosexual man, who lived in the US (NYC)right before 9-11, was from there and moved to Europe because he thought they were more willing to accept him...open minded, get his book, it is eye-opening!!! I will get you the name of it. He certainly was not writing as a conservative. Also, a Candadian: Mark Steyn
http://www.amazon.com/America-Alone-End-World-Know/dp/1596985275/ref=sr_...
...here is a list of pretty good books that I have read.
http://www.amazon.com/Ghost-Wars-Afghanistan-Invasion-September/dp/01430...
http://www.amazon.com/Sleeping-Devil-Washington-Saudi-Crude/dp/140005268...
http://www.amazon.com/While-Europe-Slept-Radical-Destroying/dp/076792005...
Chuck Norris bites the hand that feeds him and eats their entrails!
dbldeuce5
This just pisses me off. What we have here is just another example of left wing journalism. First of all where is the documentation to support these figures? Second: how many of these so called "civilian" casualities are actually insurgent/terrorist? Or killed by insurgent/terrorist? And third if these people would take responsibilty for their own country, and conduct themselves in an civilized manner we wouldn't be there to start with. The people of these countries have sat placidly by and let these thugs take over . Whether you believe we should be in Iraq or not, the bottom line is this war was started by Muslim extremist. (see 9/11/01) If we have to go get them over there to keep them from coming over here, I for one am all for it. If you won't clean up your own mess don't complain when the U.S. military comes knocking. To all those who serve or have served: You make us proud everyday. Do not think for a minute that these assholes represent what the average American thinks. They sure don't speak for old 225. Thank you for your service and God bless.
Pkato
over in this part of the world, you would understand their mentality. In Kuwait, there are approximately 500,000 Kuwaitis, but there are more than 1,000,000 million others who are here strictly to do the jobs the Kuwaits feel are beneath them. Do you expect these people to do the hard jobs??? Like take control of the country! That's why dictators and extremists control these mindless people in the first place...STRONGEST HORSE!
Chuck Norris bites the hand that feeds him and eats their entrails!
dbldeuce5
and your point is well taken. But my point is simply this: If you as a people sit idly by and allow terrorist and thugs to run rampant in your country, do not be surprised if other nations get p.o'd and do something about it. Especially if those safely harbored plan and execute an attack such as 9/11. I am deeply saddened by the loss of innocent life, and would never condone indescriminate killing of innocents. All I know is 230 some odd years ago some people didn't like the way they were being oppressed, and a rag tag militia and a poorly trained and equipped Continetal Army stood up and did something about it. I know it is not the same but the fact remains, the inaction of many condone the actions of a few.
2chuck
ya i try not to trust everthing i read, but to look at differnt ideas and research them to form my own opinion i appreciate the info
Pkato
My number were off, but I believe the percentage was in the ball park...sorry for that mistake.
As of 2007, Kuwait's population was estimated to be 3 to 3.5 million people which included approximately 2 million non-nationals.[49] Kuwaiti citizens are therefore a minority of those who reside in Kuwait. The government rarely grants citizenship to foreigners to maintain status quo.[50]
About 57% of the Kuwaiti population is Arab, 39% Asian (including people from South Asia), and 4% are classified Bidoon.[12] Bidoons are a group of stateless Arab residents of Kuwait. Other large groups of expatriates include Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Filipinos. In 2003, more than 400,000 Indian nationals lived in Kuwait,[51] making them the largest expatriate community there.[52] After Kuwait was liberated from Iraqi occupation, most of the 400,000 Palestinians living in Kuwait were expelled because of their government's open support for the Iraqi forces. Only a few thousand Palestinians remain in Kuwait.[53] The population of ethnic Armenians in Kuwait also shrank drastically following the events of the Iraq-Kuwait war.[54]
80% of Kuwait's population practices Islam.[12] Despite Islam being a state religion,[55] Kuwait has large communities of Christians (est. 300,000 to 400,000), Hindus (est. 300,000), Buddhists (est. 100,000), and Sikhs (est. 10,000).[56] Of the Muslims in Kuwait, 70% are Sunni and 30% are Shia Muslims.[7] Kuwait's official language is Arabic, though English is widely spoken. Other important languages include Malayalam, Tamil, Hindi, Urdu, Bengali, and Filipino.
Chuck Norris bites the hand that feeds him and eats their entrails!
Reaper308
3 lines!!!
Pkato
That last one was a cut and paste, I cannot force others to write within my self imposed rules...as you can see my words were less than 2 lines!!!
Chuck Norris bites the hand that feeds him and eats their entrails!
Snake
He just wrote "3 Lines" what is up with the cut and paste problem?
Reaper308
don't worry snake! the problem is under control! Thanks for the quick response
Snake
Just one question........Whats new?
Snake
Just one question........Whats new?
Reaper308
babies
ebear
did you say snake's got rabies?
Reaper308
no, scabies