Forums / Off Topic / shooting sprees

5 years 38 weeks ago, 12:30 PM

Reaper308

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shooting sprees

In light of today's incident in NY... I can think of atleast 3 different shooting sprees in the past month where 6-15 innocent people were killed, and there's probably been more. These lunitics make it easier for the libs to justify gun bans.

My question is this...

In all seriousness, what can be done to prevent these shootings?

Obviously we don't want to be disarmed. Harsher penalties won't matter because most of these nut bags blow their brains out or get lit up by SWAT.

My only thought (which I'm sure many of you share) is to arm as many private citizens as possible, and have less restrictions for CCW in certain states (easier to acquire, lift restrictions in school zones, watering holes etc...). The more citizens that are armed, the less likely these fuckos will be able to murder innocent people in public places.

That is all I can think of at the moment, but I would like to hear what you all think, because these shootings are starting to get out of hand.

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
5 years 38 weeks ago, 12:36 PM

samD

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Reaper

Who did the shooting and where did they get the guns? Pertinent info.

5 years 38 weeks ago, 12:46 PM

Reaper308

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Here is the Lastest

Massacre kills 12 at immigration center in NY

By WILLIAM KATES, Associated Press Writer William Kates, Associated Press Writer – 26 mins ago

BINGHAMTON, N.Y. – A gunman opened fire at an immigration services center in downtown Binghamton on Friday, killing as many as 13 people before authorities found him dead, officials said.

Gov. David Paterson said at a news conference that 12 or 13 people had been killed.

A law enforcement official said the body of the man believed to be the gunman was found in an office of the American Civic Association building. The official was not authorized to speak publicly about the details of an ongoing hostage situation and was talking on condition of anonymity.

The gunman barricaded the rear door of the building with his car before entering through the front door, firing his weapon, the official said.

It wasn't clear whether the gunman was included in the number of dead provided by the governor.

The Binghamton Press & Sun Bulletin reported that citizenship classes had been scheduled Friday at the center.

The Binghamton SWAT team responded, and the FBI was sending hostage negotiators and an evidence response team to the scene. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives was also sending agents to Binghamton.

Indications were that the shooter was a young male, the law enforcement official said.

The American Civic Association is an organization that helps immigrants in the Binghamton area with naturalization applications, according to U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services.

The association describes itself as helping immigrants and refugees with counseling, resettlement, citizenship, family reunification and translators.

The association's president, Angela Leach, "is very upset right now," said Mike Chanecka, a friend who answered a call at her home as Leach wept in the background.

"She doesn't know anything; she's as shocked as anyone," Chanecka said. "For some reason, she had the day off today. And she's very worried about her secretary."

Five people with gunshot wounds were being treated at Wilson Medical Center in Johnson City, according to hospital spokeswoman Christina Boyd.

The wounded ranged in age from 20 to their mid-50s, and their conditions ranged from stable to critical, she said.

Linda Miller, a spokeswoman at Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital in Binghamton, said a student from Binghamton University was being treated there.

The shooting occurred in a mixed neighborhood of homes and small businesses in the center of Binghamton, a city of about 47,000 located 140 miles northwest of New York City.

College student Leslie Shrager told the AP that she and her five housemates were sleeping when police pounded on the front door of their house next door to the shooting scene.

Officers escorted the six Binghamton University students outside, she said, and that's when they learned of the shooting.

"One of our housemates thought they heard banging of some kind. But when you're living in downtown Binghamton, it's always noisy," said Shrager, of Slingerlands, an Albany suburb. "Literally two minutes later the cops came and got us out."

At the junction of the Susquehanna and the Chenango rivers, the Binghamton area was the home to Endicott-Johnson shoe company and the birthplace of IBM, which between them employed tens of thousands of workers before the shoe company closed a decade ago and IBM downsized in recent years.

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
5 years 38 weeks ago, 12:50 PM

Reaper308

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Shootings

It just seems like there is another one every week or two.

No matter who does it, or where they get the weapons... we (as gun owners and concerned citizens) should come up with some kind of prevention/deterrent so they can't just blame the guns used, and not the individuals

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
5 years 38 weeks ago, 1:00 PM

clintlebo

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The adversary we have against us is the media. The media has a liberal agenda in my opinion. Think of all the good guns do: example Greasy is teaching his kids disciple and patience. The media profits from blood.
Feel good stories do not get ratings. Guns are the easiest tool for the fucktards to use to wreak havok. Our society is one of placing blame, and denying personal responsibility. There are a few of us still left that will go out of our way to help someone, but we are few and far between. Our battle is with culture and how people percieve life. The degredation of the nuclear family is leading us on a path of selfishness. We as a society have forgotten how to think about what our actions might mean to someone other than ourselves. You can see it everyday while you drive. In order to get into a movie, you might have to stand in line, everyone gets pissed off if someone tries to cut line, but this happens everyday while driving, and no one seems to care. Untill we can convince peoplpe to care about life and the consequences of their actions, we will always have this problem.

I wish I had a solution, but I do not.

clint

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin & Hobbes)
5 years 38 weeks ago, 8:50 PM

DEMO

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I really want to know where he got the firearms? It is so hard to get handguns here. Pistol permits are a bitch to get. I had trouble with a clean record and 20 years of military service.
The new said this guy could not speak english, so how could he pass a nics check?

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do
5 years 38 weeks ago, 11:41 PM

Reaper308

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latest

It sounds like he purchased the 2 handguns under a fake alias.

here is the disturbing part...
"A string of attacks in the U.S. in the last month left 44 people dead in all."

These nutless pole smokers are giving us a bad rap, its getting out of hand.

Story...

Gunman blocks NY center's door, kills 13, self

By WILLIAM KATES, Associated Press Writer William Kates, Associated Press Writer – 27 mins ago
BINGHAMTON, N.Y. – A gunman barricaded the back door of a community center with his car and then opened fire on a room full of immigrants taking a citizenship class Friday, killing 13 people before apparently committing suicide, officials said.

Investigators said they had yet to establish a motive for the massacre, which was at least the fifth deadly mass shooting in the U.S. in the past month alone.

The attack came just after 10 a.m. at the American Civic Association, an organization that helps immigrants settle in this country. Police Chief Joseph Zikuski said the gunman parked his car against the back door, "making sure nobody could escape," then stormed through the front, shooting two receptionists, apparently without a word.

The killer, believed to be a Vietnamese immigrant, then entered a room just off the reception area and fired on a citizenship class.

"The people were trying to better themselves, trying to become citizens," the police chief said.

One receptionist was killed, while the other, shot in the abdomen, pretended to be dead and then crawled under a desk and called 911, he said.

Police said they arrived within two minutes.

The rest of those killed were shot in the classroom. Four people were critically wounded.

The man believed to have carried out the attack was found dead with a self-inflicted gunshot wound in an office, a satchel containing ammunition slung around his neck, authorities said. Police found two handguns — a 9 mm and a .45-caliber — and a hunting knife.

Thirty-seven people in all made it out of the building, including 26 who hid in the boiler room in the basement, cowering there for three hours while police methodically searched the building and tried to determine whether the gunman was still alive and whether he was holding any hostages, Zikuski said.

Those in the basement stayed in contact with police by cell phone, switching from one phone to another when their batteries ran out, Zikuski said. Others hid in closets and under desks.

Police heard no gunfire after they arrived but waited for about an hour before entering the building to make sure it was safe for officers. They then spent two hours searching the building.

They led a number of men out of the building in plastic handcuffs while they tried to sort out the victims from the killer or killers.

Most of the people brought out couldn't speak English, the chief said.

Alex Galkin, an immigrant from Uzbekistan, said he was taking English classes when he heard a shot and quickly went to the basement with about 20 other people.

"It was just panic," Galkin said.

Zhanar Tokhtabayeva, a 30-year-old from Kazakhstan, said she was in an English class when she heard a shot and her teacher screamed for everyone to go to the storage room.

"I heard the shots, every shot. I heard no screams, just silence, shooting," she said. "I heard shooting, very long time, and I was thinking, when will this stop? I was thinking that my life was finished."

Dr. Jeffrey King, speaking at a Catholic Charities office where counseling was being offered Friday night, said he was certain his mother, 72-year-old Roberta King, who taught English at the community center, was among the dead.

Authorities read a list of survivors and his mother's name wasn't on it, he said.

King, one of 10 children, described his mother as a woman brimming with interests ranging from the opera to the preservation society to collecting thousands of dolls. He recollected a recent conversation in which he told her to enjoy her retirement.

"I said, 'Mom you're in your 70s,'" King said. "She said, 'What? You don't think I enjoy working?'"

President Barack Obama, who was traveling in Europe, said he was shocked and saddened by the shooting, which he called an "act of senseless violence." He said he and his wife, Michelle Obama, were praying for the victims, their families and the people of Binghamton, about 140 miles northwest of New York City.

Gov. David Paterson said the massacre was probably "the worst tragedy and senseless crime in the history of this city." Noting mass killings in Alabama and Oakland, Calif., last month, he said: "When are we going to be able to curb the kind of violence that is so fraught and so rapid that we can't even keep track of the incidents?"

The community center was holding class "for those who want to become citizens of the United States of America, who wanted to be part of the American Dream, and so tragically may have had that hope thwarted today," the governor said. "But there still is an American dream, and all of us who are Americans will try to heal this very, very deep wound in the city of Binghamton."

Center officials issued a statement Friday night saying they were "stricken with grief about today's horrific assault and share this grief with the victims' families, our community and the entire nation."

The suspected gunman carried ID with the name of 42-year-old Jiverly Voong, of nearby Johnson City, N.Y., but that was believed to be an alias, said a law enforcement official, speaking on condition of anonymity.

A second law enforcement official, also speaking on condition of anonymity, said the two handguns were registered to Jiverly Wong, another name the man used. Both officials were not authorized to speak publicly.

Initial reports suggested Voong had recently been let go from IBM. But a person at IBM said there was no record of a Jiverly Voong ever working there.

The police chief would not confirm the name of the dead man with the ammunition satchel, saying authorities were still trying to establish with certainty that he was the gunman.

"We have no idea what the motive is," Zikuski said.

He said the suspected gunman "was no stranger" to the community center and may have gone there to take a class.

A woman who answered the phone at a listing for Henry D. Voong said she was Jiverly Voong's sister but would not give her name. She said her brother had been in the country for 28 years and had citizenship.

"I think there's a misunderstanding over here because I want to know, too," she said.

Friday evening, police searched Voong's house and carried out three computer hard drives, a brown canvas rifle case, a briefcase, a small suitcase and several paper bags.

Police left the Voong home shortly before 8 p.m., soon after four people arrived by car and went into the house. It wasn't clear who they were, but they promptly turned out the lights.

Crime scene tape was stretched across the street about 20 yards from the house, and a steady rain fell as two state troopers stood guard to keep anyone but neighborhood residents from entering the dead-end street.

Waiting outside a Catholic Charities office where counselors were tending to relatives of victims, Omri Yigal said his wife, Delores, was taking English lessons when the gunman attacked. He had no word on what happened to her.

He finally left the center feeling sullen shortly before 8 p.m.

"They told me they don't have much hope for me," the Filipino immigrant said before going home to wait for a telephone call.

The American Civic Association helps immigrants in the Binghamton area with citizenship, resettlement and family reunification. The shootings took place in a neighborhood of homes and small businesses in downtown Binghamton, a city of about 47,000 residents.

The Binghamton area was the home to Endicott-Johnson shoe company and the birthplace of IBM, which between them employed tens of thousands of workers before the shoe company closed a decade ago and IBM downsized in recent years.

A string of attacks in the U.S. in the last month left 44 people dead in all.

A gunman killed 10 people and himself in Samson, Ala.; shootings that began with a traffic stop in Oakland, Calif., left four police officers and the gunman dead; an apparent murder-suicide in Santa Clara, Calif., left six dead; and a gunman went on a rampage at a nursing home Sunday, killing seven elderly residents and a nurse who cared for them.

"Proelium Comminus Auctoritate" "Sometimes the light at the end of the tunnel is a muzzle flash."
5 years 38 weeks ago, 7:23 AM

runawaygun762

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We can't do anything

to prevent this. Humans are violent. If we had no guns, people would use other weapons. Sure, mass killings would be more difficult with a knife, but stopping individual crimes, which accounts for many more deaths and injuries than mass murders would be mush more difficult with a knife as well. The problem is as clint says, the media. Common sense shows us that the most deadly attacks take place where the bad guys knows he isn't likely to encounter armed citizens. There aren't many mass shootings in gun shows that I'm aware of. I think our key is to hold our elected representatives accountable for voting away our freedoms. I think it was Demo who said in an earlier post that a former congressman said they don't care what their constituents want. Contacting them is a good thing, but making ultimatums and then backing them up with a grassroots movement at home is the only thing these people respect. They are completely aware that more guns equals more safety, but they are also aware that more guns equal less control over the populace.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 38 weeks ago, 8:06 AM

hillbilly77

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Runaway is right

When it comes to gun control al they see is keeping themselves safe. If we do not have firearms then what is to keep them from rolling right over the tops off us. We have to keep our firearms to keep everything in checks and balances. They just do not want anybody doing their voting from any roof tops. I have a shirt that reads "Gun Control is not about guns it is about Control".

“If ever time should come,when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of it's experienced Patriots to prevent it's ruin."Samuel Adams
5 years 38 weeks ago, 9:04 AM

birdebyrd

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Yesterday at an Immigrant relief center, 13 dead in Binghamton, NY; Today, 3 Police Officers dead in Pittsburg; The fellow in Pittsburg attacked the officers with a "Shoulder fired weapon", some journalists speculating he was using an AK.

If you're on the fence about purchasing weaponry, I'd say get 'em while you can.

Feedin' the till, for the "Stimulus" Bill (since 1974)
5 years 26 weeks ago, 7:07 AM

baurthur

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I guess my theroy on the whole deal is that the court system.
Does it really matter to the victim if you were insane or under aged at the time you killed him. Hes already dead!
Go back to public hangings and let the kids watch give them a little justice show and maybe they will remember it. Far less violent than some of the games they play now days and Im not blaming the games. Kids dont really learn right from wrong any more they learn what they can get away with.
I live in a town of 25000 and we got the aclu trying to sue the town becuase it requires more than on ID to get a marriage license. Hell how did they get insurance,job or drivers license if they dont have proper id.
As far as the imigrant I just think people had enough with the economy and the lack of jobs and the flood of imigrants. US needs to lock down the boarders like Canada did for its own safety and the good of its people. Sure we were all once imigrants but I dont know about your family but mine just didnt come waltzing in one bright sunny day. They spent over a year out there on elis island waiting and making do.
Where I grew up not that far from Chicago they have their own little race war going on between the hispanics and the african americans every night of every weekend. Not unusual at all to see 10 a weekend end up dead.

5 years 26 weeks ago, 7:10 PM

Ebear

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bauther

you are full of shit....im from Chicago, and if it was usual for there to be ten dead every weekend there would be martial law.Im hispanic and not in a gang.....what a suprise huh? Its people like you who make up shit that give places a bad rap.Im not saying there is'nt crime, but not even close TO WHAT YOU DESCRIBE.. Besides the afican americans and the hispanics seem to get along for the most part.....we all know people like you stereotype us and we laugh about it......oh yeah one more thing ....IHATE YOU.....GO TO HELL.....THANKS FOR THE SYMPATHETIC SHOULDER.....BLOW ME

...check... G-AZ
5 years 26 weeks ago, 8:06 AM

charley9toe

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Shooting sprees

The U.S. already has a myriad of laws restricting firearms purchase, carry, use.
1.I think we need to standardize those laws. All people need to understand them. Cities like Wash, D.C., and certainly others should bear Federal suit until they become at least rational in their behavior. If we had a Justice Department with the guts to do it. NICS data base should possibly contain more information.
2.Education & safety relative to firearms should be part of a culture that has a Second Amendment.
3.Building safety in community centers, work places, churches, restaurants etc., should be accentuated. IOW, take that f------ chain off the rear exit door.Fire Inspectors point out a lot of the evacuation infractions but they don't really get corrected.
4.Information management; we know the news media is biased (period). When these high interest incidents occur we need a methodology to find out what happened and do some reporting ourselves. Many, Many times I know we have seen and heard a reporter point to an SKS and call it a AK-47, etc. etc.,The don't know the difference between a magazine and a clip. The same with the politicians who could be voting on a bill to restrict the use of revolvers vs pistols; They Don't Know The Difference (Ref para 2.). Who is correcting or mentoring these stories or politicians. In most cases no one!! The NRA does what it can. It too could improve. I think, and believe most of you would agree, that some of our tax dollars should go to firearms education. Maybe, at the cost of a Congressman going to RIO, or the Speaker with a Presidents airplane. Enough said.

(You have to look behind all of that outer space stuff)

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