Shakleford  |
I've always shot .40, but not to long ago I had the pleasure of shooting a 9mm. I gotta say....I liked it! I was more accurate with it and had quicker follow up shots. I've always questioned the 9 as a fight stopper, but with all the new ammo out.... I'am second guessing my theories. I'am thinking about a Glock 19....how many carry one? Probably won't carry it, just want to know if I could. "Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou Glock art with me; thy extra mags and thy ammo they comfort me."
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eagleseeker1957
Yeah you should have at least 2 an a .40 an .45. I like the 40 an the 9 mm all the new stuff is great but alot of law enf are movein up to the 40 or 45 especially now with the body armour may not poke a hole in it but it leaves a person on his ass lookin for his next breath.
Schuyler
I got a Glock 19 for this purpose, but now with ammo going up in price I'm not sure it matters as much. My son carries a 10mm Glock. I had shot a military .45 years ago and remembered quite a kick, then my daughter told me she had fired one, "It kicked my butt, Dad," she said. Don't know what kind. So I was a little wary, but a guy at the range let me fire his 1911 (S&W) and I have to say I don't think the kick is any worse than the Glock 19. The gun is a lot heavier and that's probably part of it, but anyway, I'm now lusting after a .45 like that. Course, you gotta change targets more often because it tears 'em up so bad. :-)
mcliberty
everyone should have a 9mm glock,s&w,beretta,ect. if ammo gets impossible to find you should be able to find in hard times. plus the it is a u.n/nato round so if they ever turn on us we can use there ammo!
mcliberty
its better to place one well placed shot,than dump a mag. and hope to hit something.
Uriel
I cant own one yet but i get to carry my dads 9mm and i love it
SUPERFRYE
I have shot both, but with the advances in ammo and the cost of 9mm, practice fmg $20 for 100 rnds, thats a lot of range time for nothing, plus it's good enough for the GOV so I'm happy with my 9mm, I've always belived in bullet placement , you might not get a second shot, center mass their going down!!
DEMO
I buy a 1000 round bundle each year for about 200 bucks. I shoot a AR-15 9mm and Walther P99 9mm at the range all summer. I have control with my rounds. I can put the bullet where I want it.
I have a 45 colt too for hunting but still have my 9mm's for home defense.
raffycanlas
its a great round for target shooting cuz its cheap, and load it up with 115 +p+ hp for self defense.
Lyle Hutychins
I got 3 9MM's. Issued Glock 19-C duty weapon, my Glock 19-C, and a Taurus Pt-111 Stainless, The duty weapon in also a Glock 19-C. They are very accurate weapons. As for stopping power, we are trained 3 center mass and one to the face. With Remington hollow point plus P ammo. 15x3 round Glock Mags. and 10x3 round for the PT- 111.
L R Hutch.
raffycanlas
true about the 3 center mass and one to the face, but i think one hollow point round would do the deed, correct me if i am wrong though.
ebear
everyone should own a 9mm. its an all purpose gun, great for target shooting, and as everyone has said with prices the way they are your best value. But saying that ....the .45 is in my opinion the best home defensive hand gun and very fun to shoot.
runawaygun762
as for 40 and 45 leaving a body armor clad person on their butt looking for their next breath, I advise you to watch the videos of Richard Davis of Second Chance Body armor Co shooting himself point blank with a 44 mag. Not exactly on his ass. And mcliberty, the line about the one well placed shot is nice and all, but we're talking about handguns here. That would indicate a close-range fight, which you have obviously never taken part in. It doesn't work that way.
dbphotos
Bottom line, a accurately placed shot to the center mass (spine) with any caliber will stop the threat, however since most shots aren't accurately placed, a 9mm is not a bad round, but a .40 tops a 9mm, a .45 tops a .40, a .357 magnum tops a .45 (most of the time) and a .44 magnum tops a .357 magnum.
I've seen people shot with 1 9mm round die quickly and others with 8-9 rounds that never die. You'll get as many opinions on the 9mm round as there are people on this site, but it has been around a long time and done a lot of damage.
raffycanlas
well i mean you shoot a dude with a 9mm on the leg 10 times he wont die on the spot, but you give him a 124 grain +p+ jhp n the stomach and he will die in 3 seconds.
dbphotos
Not necessarily. I've been on scene with a person with 9 center mass shots and he was talking to me and lived. I agree, if the round is properly placed it will do the job. It's also nice to have all the extra rounds available in most 9mm weapons if you're in a serious gun fight.
raffycanlas
i carry a glock 19, it doesnt dissapoint, an accurately placed 9mm hollow point will lethally stop someone.
runawaygun762
People do weird, unexpected things when shot. I know of one anecdote where a police marksman shot a guy in the chest through a windshield with a .308 rifle, the guy got out of the car, shot one cop, and ran a couple blocks before collapsing. On the other hand, i'm sure it's not hard to find stories of guys shot in non lethal areas with small guns who collapse immediately from shock. When training and equipping yourself for a real fight, treat it like you would when being in a fistfight with a big guy. Hit first, and don't stop hitting until he can't hit back. Don't rely on the one punch knockout. Shoot 'em 'till they're no longer a threat.
greasypaws
two weeks ago,at my local range(i am the range officer)a guy shot himself with his glock 17.he had his hand over the end of the muzzle preparing to disassemble it.he failed to clear the chamber first,and as glock owners know they have to be in a fired condition to remove the slide.the hollow point bullet went thru the meaty part of his hand south of the pinky then hit him in the side of the abdomen below the ribs and exited his abdomen out his back.the bullet went clear thru both parts of his body without hitting any organs or arteries or veins.basically a tissue wound!the amazing part is that the hollow point failed to open!why?who knows!
runawaygun762
of the unloaded gun. Those things are dangerous, huh?
greasypaws
this guy(a friend)is very well acquanted with guns.he said that he was in a hurry and that he had gotten too comfortable with his weapons!note to others:gun safety always matters!the shitty part was he was teaching his bro in law and sister how to handle a handgun because they were considering buying one for home defense!
zx12rmike
Correct, "Familiarity Breeds Contempt"
runawaygun762
with experience are the ones who get complacent. I guess the newbies still consciously think about the inherent risks associated with guns while the old hands just take it for granted.
greasypaws
i totally agree with you on this!after this happened(i had to give a statement to the police on behalf of the gunclub)and talking with the deputies,we all agreed that this could have been any one of us.the officers(who carry glocks!)said they had done this same thing a million times!i bet they check,check and double check their guns now!even just nowwhile working on a winchester Model 94 i keep checking the chamber.paranoia?maybe,but better safe than sorry!
Nitris
knock down power, a naked perp/thug no problem well suited problem. You need a 357 magnum, 40, 45, or 50.
dbphotos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yr_cM8kvig
Sorry about the link, I couldn't figure out how to embed a video here.
runawaygun762
is a myth. People have posted in here and written other stuff about energy transfer and one shot stopping rates and what not. They key with any cartridge at all is placement. That includes rifles and shotguns, but particularly with pistols. 9mm has been killing people for a lot longer than the 40, 10mm, 50 AE, or 500 Mag. People haven't gotten tougher. If you hit someone in the leg or arm with a 45, they will still be a threat much longer than someone hit in the heart, spine, or brain with a 22. I am not advocating 22s as defensive rounds, but I do say use the biggest round you are comfortable with. I like the 9mm because it is much cheaper to practice with and therefore, it is much cheaper to become truly proficient with. A 45 is bigger and gives a better chance of hitting something vital, but it is also nearly twice as expensive as 9mm for practice. Use what you are best with. If you put the bullet(s) in the right spot, any cartridge can have good "knockdown power".
Nitris
Runaway I do agree with part of your statement: however many police deprtments are switching to 40 and or 45 because 9mm in hollow point or FMJ lacks the ablitiy to tak the perp down as desired...........I could go on and on with fact sheets and so forth but I'm tired right now.
charley9toe
"Amen".
Snake
im not a 9 iron man myself. Perfer magnums or powerful .45 LC. Again no dis respect intended.
DEMO
I bought a Ruger blackhawk in 45 colt. Some of the Corbon loads are hotter than 44 mag and heavier. What do you think about taking a deer or bear with it.
I love the gun, plus it came with a 45 acp cylinder
Snake
.45 Lc yes it will work on a deer. I have done it myself at about 25 30 yards. 2 shots one in neck other in shoulder.didnt run to far and bled all the way. Mine is an original SAA
runawaygun762
I would be interested in seeing stats for police departments as far as where their rounds hit. I'm willing to bet in the majority of the instances where rapid incapacitiation did not happen the suspects were not struck in the vitals. Look, a 100 pound deer struck through both lungs with a .30-06 can still run for quite a ways before collapsing. And for a police department to go to a bigger, less user-friendly round is ridiculous as the majority of cops out there don't practice regularly. I will say that given a hit in the same spot, a 45 is more effective than a 40, which is is more effective than a 9mm, which is more effective than a 22, and so on. I have come to the conclusion that decision makers for police and military units are much more prone to coming up with a technological answer for a training or performance problem. "Our officers aren't killing the suspects quickly enough? Let's give 'em bigger guns". When the answer should be "Let's send our officers over to Lou Chiodo in the CHP so we can go from a 20-something percent hit rate to nearly 90 percent, just like the CHP did". Imagine that; a training solution to a training deficiency. That would pretty much nulify the caliber conversation.
ronin1604
As a member of the military who has seen first hand this problem......AMEN. Lets fix the problem with training and not tech. Tech can fail when need most, and training will get you through.
Nitris
To start with my statement was knock down power not kill. If I want to kill I couls use a 22lr. 9mm lack knock down power not kill ability. I own several 9mm and love them. Even carry in my car for protection.
raffycanlas
doesnt matter what bullet i guess, if u miss the vitals, u dont knock them down, and with 2-3 shots of a 9mm in the chest, you oughta hit something. and to be honest i dont know about guns as much as half the people here, but if im carrying my g19 loaded with +p+ hp's, im gonna be confident i will stop a perp/animal. and if the 9mm is good enough for the military and the nypd, its sure as hell good enough for me.
runawaygun762
No pistol in existence will knock a man down. There are some smart people here, and I could find that physics law that says for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction, or whatever if I looked around. This applies to shooting. Any bullet capable of physically knocking a man down would have recoil powerful enough to do the same to the shooter, minus gun weight and recoil dampening and whatnot. Knockdown power refers to the speed of incapacitation caused by a given round, not by the ability to physically move someone.
mcliberty
isrealies shoot until,target goes down,reload. thats knockdown power.
runawaygun762
that's shooting until the bad guy is incapacitated, allowing them to fall down. That's gravity at work.
mcliberty
BUT YOU HAVE TO AGREE THE WHERE KNOCKED DOWN . HA!HA!
charley9toe
I still agree with Runawaygun762 (use the biggest caliber you are comfortable with).
I know I can shoot a Glock19 "out of the box" better than other calibers I have. But don't own one. Go figure. I switched to a .40 S&W in 1990. So I
am totally comfortable w/that. A lot of it (I believe) is the platform that the round is launched from. Then you have the mass/weight/energy, argument.
+ we add the newer ammunition component. This could go on forever. It's great.
sparticus22286
i think a 45 magnum would give you a good head start towards the ground
runawaygun762
A 22lr in the cerebral cortex will drop you much faster than a 12 gauge in the gut. No, I am not saying we should trade our 870s for 10/22s, but I am illuminating the point. With handguns, the key is where the round goes. A 308 narrowly missing the liver will still damage the liver. The vast majority of defensive rounds will not damage the liver unless it hits it directly.
SUPERFRYE
You got it right, bullet placement is everything as "we" were trained,9MM rocks "THAT"S IT " !!!!
Snake
.45 ACP .45 LC are the best
raffycanlas
well i dunno about that, see 45 acp leaves bigger holes, 40 cal is a mix between a 9mm and 45 acp, 357 sig and mag are deep hole punchers, so all in all, bullets have different styles, i love the 45 acp for self defense, but id rather have 15 shots of the 9mm than 8 of the 45.
Nitris
This is knock down power from a pistol.
http://www.nothingtoxic.com/media/1234318416/Armed_Suspect_Taken_Down_Wi...
LLE
Most of us agreed this video is a HOAX.
ebear
I think?
runawaygun762
I do not believe the 9mm is a better or more effective round than the 40 or 45. If I could find a 16 inch naval gun that was easily concealed, easily controlled in rapid strings of fire with inexpensive practice ammo, I would carry one of those. The amount of recoil generated by a 9mm is less than that of a 40, 45ACP, 45 LC (don't feel left out, Snake), 10mm, and so on up the scale in a given platform. You can train to control recoil and stack rounds right on top of each other at 8 yds while running with a 45 with the proper training, equipment, and practice. However, since I am not an "operator" and I have to buy my own ammo, the 9mm is the best choice for me. I may move up to a 45 some day, but only after I've found a reliable, comfortable weapon that I feel confident will serve me as well as the Glock 19/26. I doubt it'll ever happen, though.
raffycanlas
very good point man, my glock 19 carries 15, when im out or just waiting in my bedroom, and since the 40 and 45 carries only about 7-13, its a very very very slim chance i would have to unload 15 bullets on a perp, so with that being said, bullet for bullet, the 40 and 45 are more powerful than the 9mm, but it doesnt mean the 9mm lacks stopping power, in my opinion, stopping power is hitting somebody in their vitals thatll cause shock or immediate blood loss for them to go down, its easier to achieve that with the fatter 45 or the faster 357 sig, but a 9mm will still do the job...ask the military, border patrol, and secret service. a 9mm may be small compared to a 45, but then again, a pitbull is small compared to most dogs...