Forums / Political & Legal / SIC TRANSIT GLORIA--Bob Costas

2 years 6 weeks ago, 1:32 PM

LLE

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If you were watching NBC's Sunday night, half time show last week, you were treated to a reasonably smart sports pundit, shoot himself down in flames. Why he felt he was "big enough" to turn a football analysis duty, into a political editorial on gun control, is reflective of how many pundits, actors, comedians and political "experts" become drunk with the megalomaniacal belief that they are experts in EVERYTHING, because the public loves them [whether that is true or not.]

I am not criticizing Costas because I disagree with his opinion. He, like everyone, is entitled to his opinion. I am criticzing him because--as a person who has access to the "buly pulpit" of a major TV network outlet--his credibility depends upon his accuracy and the validity of his fact-based analyses. He has been a resource and appreciated spokesman for NBC--- but last Sunday HE FAILED, because he had not done his homework. His assumptions were based upon faulty data, and an assumption of human behavior, unsupported by science. It was also apparent that he had seldom if ever consulted the copious research that has resulted from professionally based studies, which explode the usual superficial myths.

Bob Costas has a first amendment speech right, as do we all. That right, however, DOES NOT, as the legal opinion articulates, allow him to [shout "fire" in a crowded theatre]. In my opinion, his free speech, editorial TV essay was over the first amendment line, and is worthy of the severest condemnation, at least from his employer................

Don't hold your breath.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 6 weeks ago, 1:56 PM

ptrudge

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has been

Agreed !!! Well stated.

Coppertop ???

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2 years 6 weeks ago, 7:07 PM

coppertop

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Ok

I'm not sure what you want me to say. As a gun guy who owns the very types of guns that Bob thinks are so bad, I don't agree with his premise that the gun caused this to happen. Is he making an emotional argument based on opinion, I think so. As to what he said being the same as yelling fire in a theater, no. What he said did not put anyone in immediate harm. Did anyone get trampled on their way out of the stadium? LLE should hold his breath and wait for the left leaning NBC to get around to holding him accountable. What Bob said is really not anything that hasn't already been said by others who dislike guns.

I really doubt that had Bob said that the blame was with the people and not with the gun, LLE wouldn't have said a thing. But, LLE likes to have it both ways. How often does he rattle off his opinion as though it were fact. Just go through old threads and posts and you will see that I'm not the first to point this out. You asked for my take so here it is.

The 1st amendment is not there to protect the speech that you like, but the speech that you don't. If Bob Costas is held to account for what he said, let it be from the free men and women who can choose what to believe for themselves. If what he said drives away viewers and sponsors, then any action by NBC will be due to job performance and not questions of free speech. I won't be watching him, how about you?

2 years 6 weeks ago, 2:02 AM

LLE

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thin air, from you. The point was that serious harm might result, either immediately OR in the imminent future. Once again we see defocusing from the OPINIONS expressed: What is the relevance of observing that what Costas said, has been said by "others who dislike guns"? Most of our readers know that, but you obviously missed the point of my criticism....not WHAT he said, but the inappropriate time and the venue of what he said.

Your attack and criticism of me, in this discussion, defocuses and attempts to put words in my mouth; that seems small, angry, vindictive and totally unwarranted. I attempt to demonstrate opinion as opinion, and I will recant any statement that you show validly demonstrates something to the contrary. You have four years, plus, of postings to work with.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 6 weeks ago, 1:30 PM

ptrudge

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thin air

Sorry LLE, I couldn't resist calling in the voice from left field .......... LOL

"Guns are Liberty's Teeth" - Thomas Jefferson" Philip Trudgeon Shipping and Receiving Telephone (281) 568-5685 FAX (281) 568-9191
2 years 6 weeks ago, 5:35 PM

LLE

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No problem, although

I did not expect a verbal attack on the substance of the issue I raised.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 6 weeks ago, 8:13 PM

coppertop

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There you go again

LLE wrote:
thin air, from you. The point was that serious harm might result, either immediately OR in the imminent future. Once again we see defocusing from the OPINIONS expressed: What is the relevance of observing that what Costas said, has been said by "others who dislike guns"? Most of our readers know that, but you obviously missed the point of my criticism....not WHAT he said, but the inappropriate time and the venue of what he said.

Your attack and criticism of me, in this discussion, defocuses and attempts to put words in my mouth; that seems small, angry, vindictive and totally unwarranted. I attempt to demonstrate opinion as opinion, and I will recant any statement that you show validly demonstrates something to the contrary. You have four years, plus, of postings to work with.

Time and venue? A football player kills his girlfriend and then kills himself in front of his coach and GM. Exactly when would a sportscaster deliver an opinion on the topic? His job is to talk about sports and a football player had just killed himself a couple of days before, that does fall into his area if you will. So what immediate harm was he causing? Harm in the imminent future, what does that even mean? At some point, something that a person says may contribute to someone getting hurt. The whole point of the crowded theater analogy is to help establish what boundary there is on a person's speech. If there is a fire then it is not a problem, it's the false speech that results in harm that is not protected. So what direct harm was caused by his speech?

If you think my post was an attack, well then your pretty thin skinned. You talk of Bob and other celebrities being drunk with megalomaniacal power, a little heavy on the hyperbole there. All this from someone who on a post a month or so ago told everyone that he knew better than everyone else, pot the kettle is calling. Due to your sensitive nature, maybe you should add some letters to your user name, fragiLLE.

As far as being from the left, I guess it's a relative thing. I hate welfare and the entitlement mindset. I think English should be the official language. I think chapter 7 bankruptcy should be done away with. I think we are way too far in debt as a nation. I think taxes should be a flat rate and that the government should live within that budget. I think that the drug cartels should be treated like al Qaeda, hunted and killed. I think Washington is broke and the 2 parties could care less about you, me, and everyone else. I'm a gun owner that has a concealed carry license. Not exactly views from the left.

I didn't agree with Bob, but when and where he exercises his speech is up to him. People speaking their mind doesn't bother me. It's the people who would act to limit the bill of rights that bother me.

2 years 6 weeks ago, 12:29 PM

LLE

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First: On what post about a month or so ago, did I tell everyone "I knew better than everyone else?" What exactly did I say and HOW does that relate to my opinion about the Costas essay?
Second: If you wish to INCLUDE in Costas' job description as a football sportscaster/pundit, that he is expected to comment on controversial socio/political subject matter--that is perfectly ok with me. But I reserve the right to believe such commentary was entirely inappropriate at the time and place in which he did so. Instead, his [deserved] notoriety would have guaranteed talk show guest appearances, if he felt it necessary to speak from his "ex cathedra" expertise. I worked for the parent company of NBC, and I am certain (OPINION) the executives of NBC Sports were [quietly] VERY unhappy with Costas' breach of propriety.
Third: Re potential immediate or imminent harm: IMO Bill O'Reilly captured the essence of thinking about the subject: he asked an academic but provocative question of his guest, which I will paraphrase: //If you were in that Aurora, Colorado theatre, back in July, when Holmes was unleashing semi-automatic gunfire and tear gas grenades [allegedly murdering 12 and injuring 58 people]---and you were not armed, would you have just laid down and hoped that he would not have killed you? On the other hand, if you were legally carrying a firearm, under Colorado concealed carry regulations, could you have done something differently with the possibility of a much better outcome?\\ Therein lies the rub: sheeple vs sheepdog. It is MY OPINION (and that of others smarter than I) that Costas' speech before a TV audience of literally millions of viewers was erronious and invalid factually. Thus, IMO, he reaped an unintended consequence, since he was complicit in reinforcing the narrow, myopic, post 1965 progressive/liberal oriented view that despite the second amendment and our inherent right of self-defense, there is "nothing we can do". How many more unthinking "sheeple" might he have helped to create?? If even just a thousand--how does that help our society/culture? THAT, IS THE POTENTIAL IMMEDIATE OR IMMINENT HARM.
Fourth; I have not noticed a change in the thickness of my skin, despite your latest proclamation. I want you to know that I admire the value system you reflected in your next to last paragraph, and in keeping with your closing paragraph, I have spoken "my mind"

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 6 weeks ago, 9:18 PM

coppertop

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An old dog can learn new tricks. Two months ago you said that there is no such thing as the mind, and now you are using it. As for your Colorado shooting example, do you really think anyone changed their mind based on what Bob Costas said? Did anyone turn in their concealed carry license? I'll go out on a limb and say no. So your assertion that we are in harms way because some random person may choose to not carry a gun is a stretch. We'll have to agree to disagree. I feel strongly that without the 1st amendment, the 2nd amendment is meaningless. I think that Bob was stupid to share his opinion during a football game. As LBC shared, the audience for the most part are gun owners, so who was he talking to? Stupid is not, however, a crime. The reaction that he got worked against him and his goal. Now everyone knows where he stands on this issue and he really didn't gain anything.

GE is not the same company it once was. Jeff Immelt has been very cozy with Obama and has been pushing a progressive agenda. Not sure he will take Bob to task for a shared opinion. The question is this going to have a lasting impact with the viewers of NBC. We tend to have a short attention span as a nation. Time will tell. As a rule, I don't like firing people for their opinions. Everyone waits on baited breath to catch someone saying something they don't like and then bitch and moan to get them fired. I thought the ruckus over Don Imus was stupid also. The free exchange of ideas is hollow if everyone polices every little thing they say. It's messy and you might get your feelings hurt, but at least your free to speak. This PC culture is bullshit, however, open communication without any respect is not desirable ether. Anyway, got a long day tomorrow, so good night.

2 years 6 weeks ago, 5:19 AM

LLE

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If you must attempt to discredit me, at least do it honestly, with some attention and focus. It was YOU who used the term, and YOU who I was quoting. Let's review your posting titled "there you go again"==last paragraph:
QUOTE// People speaking their 'mind' doesn't bother me\\UNQUOTE
My statement tried to convey--that is exactly what I did,[speak 'my mind'] considering your common usage of the term in question And I hoped you might get the unasked question, which was something like: If people "speaking their mind" [ your usage] doesn't bother you, WHY are you so bothered when I exercise that privilege??
What I opined about the Colorado theatre shooting stands, as written.
Whether it is Immelt, Welch or Sarnoff, I stand by my opinion re NBC.

I do not consider myself a word policeman, but I try to stay focused when discussing serious issues.
Hope you had a good night's sleep.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 6 weeks ago, 12:06 PM

ptrudge

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fragiLLE

According to wiktionary, a close relative to the infamous wikipedia, fragile is spelled with one "L" not two.

"Guns are Liberty's Teeth" - Thomas Jefferson" Philip Trudgeon Shipping and Receiving Telephone (281) 568-5685 FAX (281) 568-9191
2 years 6 weeks ago, 12:44 PM

LLE

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when I was working my way thru college on the Korean GI Bill. I was a shipping clerk, and it's a good thing we had a big ink pad stamp!!

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 6 weeks ago, 9:59 PM

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I love the NFL

But I will not watch another NBC Sunday Night game until Bob Costas is off of the show. I refuse to give my attention to that communist piece of trash. If he wants to live in a gunless society, he needs to take his ass to England and get the Hell out of the land of the free and the home of the brave, we've got plenty of yellow bastards here and won't miss him if he goes. And that's the last time the words "Bob Costas" will ever come firing off of my fingers.

2 years 6 weeks ago, 1:14 PM

LLE

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Matty--I agree, but

let's remember, no one is perfect (except maybe you and I).

You need to watch Glenn Beck's imitation of Costas. Beck pierces the devine Bobby's holierthanthou balloon, by a parody that substitutes "beer" for guns.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 6 weeks ago, 10:17 PM

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Nfl

Amen

2 years 6 weeks ago, 1:15 PM

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An emotional knee-jerk

An emotional knee-jerk reaction, and from what I've been hearing lately he (Bob Costas) has done some back-peddling from what he said about gun control.

2 years 6 weeks ago, 3:23 PM

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maybe Bobbie should

Mention that 70-80% of football players own and legally carry guns. My source for that was an article in the US News last week.

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
2 years 6 weeks ago, 8:37 PM

LLE

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Or perhaps that

on December 1st, approximately 100 million legal gun owners in the USA, did NOT murder their spouses/girlfriends/mother of their children, and then commit suicide by shooting themselves in the head.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 6 weeks ago, 2:31 PM

Hawkeye50317

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I'll second that

LLE wrote:
on December 1st, approximately 100 million legal gun owners in the USA, did NOT murder their spouses/girlfriends/mother of their children, and then commit suicide by shooting themselves in the head.

well said.

2 years 6 weeks ago, 3:07 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

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Good one, LLE

That's a fact that is NOT presented enough to the American people. Although, going to CaptMax's pic about "Gun's... Just Because", it does seem that we (gun owners, believers in liberty) are on the defensive more than we should be. We seem to have to explain that it is a basic human right to defend oneself, that it's OK to an AR to hunt, that an armed citizenry is a 1st line of defense in invasion, not to mention a check and balance on the government. But the real question should be why SHOULDN'T we have arms? Are we not a free people? The ONLY argument should be whether we are indeed free or are we subjects?

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
2 years 6 weeks ago, 3:46 PM

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Well thought out post, between you and LLE i haven't a chance here. I guess i gotta go get my mind right! Nevermind that...it was a thinly veiled homage to Cool Hand Luke. But please be mindful of those of us that just can't focus our minds....that set in on me from an early age. But i don't mind,set'em up and let's keep shaking that tree boss!

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
2 years 6 weeks ago, 7:41 AM

Saint J.M. Browning

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Lucky

Sorry about that. Let me try again...

titties!

;)

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
2 years 6 weeks ago, 4:39 PM

LLE

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OK--so you like the term "mind", and you want to give me agita by zinging me five times in a short discourse. Your lingual facility has been duly recognized, intellectually and [gasp] emotionally. As Jack Benny used to say, "Now cut that out!!"

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 6 weeks ago, 8:36 PM

luckybychoice

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ha LLE

I just lost my mind there a bit.

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
2 years 6 weeks ago, 2:56 AM

LLE

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You cannot lose something you never had!!

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 6 weeks ago, 4:34 AM

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to funny

Well played sir!

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
2 years 6 weeks ago, 10:47 PM

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1st Amendment

It's that fool's right under the 1st Amendment to spew his communist bile, just like it's my right to boycott his company as long as he's still given a forum to do it in. He who will not be named was being paid to cover a FOOTBALL GAME, not to give political opinions of any sort, and he should've stuck to his assigned duties, at which he is barely competent in my opinion. He who will not be named had no more business pushing a political agenda than Bacrock Ovomit has breaking down game film and analyzing offenses. Politics of any sort did not germaine to this situation in any way, shape, or form, and he should've stuck to doing his job instead of using Jovan Belcher's casket as a soapbox.

2 years 6 weeks ago, 2:49 AM

LLE

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Keep on keepin' on!!

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]

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