Forums / Strategies, Tactics & Training / Sniper Instruction

5 years 38 weeks ago, 7:16 AM

ssrs10

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Sniper Instruction

What would you say are some of the best instructional books or videos for learning how to snipe or shoot long range?

It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses
5 years 38 weeks ago, 11:28 AM

Anonymous

SSRS10

You cant learn sniping just from books you need to practice your shooting in the feild.For example if you can find a place for long range shootin then go and shoot till ya hit the target every time. But if ya want a book then do as reaper308 says GOOGLE it.But to be nice here is a link.

http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/c/jack-coughlin/kill-zone.htm

5 years 38 weeks ago, 11:28 AM

fordvg

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Sniper Instruction

Ultimate Sniper Instructional video's by Major John Plaster are good videos he has 2 video and maybe more. Marine Corp Scout Sniper Manuel is a good book.

"WAR IS A RACKET, I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street, and for the Bankers." Major-General Smedley Darlington Butler USMC Ret. 2 time Medal of Honor winner.
5 years 38 weeks ago, 11:53 AM

Eturnit3

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MCRP 3-01A, marine marksmenship.
FM 3-05.222 special forces sniper training
rather than me makin a giant list, why dont u pm your email address and Ill email them to you. And yes, if anyone else is interested just pm me an email addy and I'll send em....

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5 years 38 weeks ago, 12:09 PM

Eturnit3

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nevermind,

I actually found it on teh web... http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/23-10/inde...

The time is coming when those who kill you will think they are offering service to God. Jesus - (John 16.2) A penny saved is a government oversight.
5 years 38 weeks ago, 8:40 PM

ssrs10

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eturnit3

WOW DUDE THAT IS AWESOME! Thanks! Thanks all!

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5 years 38 weeks ago, 9:29 PM

runawaygun762

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The Ultimate Sniper

is a very good book. Snake, a large part of what the sniper does is technical and can be learned in a book. Stalking, mental preparation, and making a data card for your own rifle need to be done elsewhere, but the rest of it can be learned in a book and then practiced in the field.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 38 weeks ago, 7:52 AM

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Has anyone used any of these systems? The BORS has me intrigued.

thanks
clint

p.s. I am not a sniper, but I learned a lot about shooting preperations from Plaskers book.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin & Hobbes)
5 years 32 weeks ago, 9:05 PM

fordvg

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Clint

All I have done is read about them, never used them to see how they work first hand.

"WAR IS A RACKET, I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street, and for the Bankers." Major-General Smedley Darlington Butler USMC Ret. 2 time Medal of Honor winner.
5 years 32 weeks ago, 8:58 PM

Ironkoji

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SSRS10,

there are two types of sniper team. The standard, two warrior pair team consists of a Sniper/Shooter, and the brains of the team, the Sniper/Spotter. Usually the younger of the pair will act as shooter and the older, more experienced sniper will act as the spotter. The Spotter has his or her own special optics and range finders, and usually today a computer to make all the math calculations lots faster, and more accurate. The Shooter lines up the rifle and the optics according to the "dope" or data and information the Spotter gives and then when the Spotter gives the order, "Send it", the shooter pulls the trigger at the precise moment he or she is ready. Send it does not mean fire. It means fire when you got the right shot and are physically and mentally ready to fire. So the first thing you need to decide is which kind of Sniper do you want to study to become? And yes, over 90 percent of what a Sniper needs to know can be found and learned well from books. However those remaining percent points are practice practice practice, in the field of course and hopefully with a qualified instructor, but some of the field traning envolves things like choosing the right spot for a "hide" and setting up hides, and camo and concealment and stealthiness as well and stalking for example on hunter/killer missions etc.

The second type of Sniper Team is a 6 to 7 warrior strong sort of Super Scout Sniper Squad. They carry heavier firepower such as the NTW-20 system, the Barret XM109 and XM500 family of super heavy long range sniper weapons etc. I would be willing to discuss the new tactics and strategies of this new type of Sniper Team with you if you are interested, which would give you even more choices to make about what kind of Sniper do you want to be.

5 years 31 weeks ago, 12:13 AM

runawaygun762

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Jesus, Ironkoji

You don't choose which "type" of sniper you are going to be. You get assigned as a scout/sniper, graduate the course, and perform missions as required. Whether you are in a traditional two man sniper/spotter team or small kill team is determined by the mission. Some of you people need to stop watching so many movies and spend less money on Palladin Press books.

"I have always been a soldier. I have known no other life. The calling of arms, I have followed from boyhood. I have never sought another." From The Virtues of War, by Steven Pressfield.
5 years 31 weeks ago, 12:46 AM

Ironkoji

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runawaygun762

The individual who asked the original question is not a member of any military organization but is simply an enthusiast and can in fact choose what kind of sniper he wants to study to become for his personal enjoyment and edification.

5 years 31 weeks ago, 5:38 PM

uglymech6153

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i say

i say watch Topsniper on the military chanel until you are good at it. LOL

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5 years 31 weeks ago, 5:53 PM

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uglymech153: I say...

Top Sniper is a joke. They deliberately improvise and hide and out right lie about what real sniper tactics are all about. The only reasonable things I have seen on any of the Top Sniper episodes is 1. they do a pretty good job describing the role of the Spotter, and 2. Gilley suits are about as funny as you can get! No real sniper would be caught dead in a gilley suit. they stand out from surrounding environments like a cancer in an otherwise healthy heart, something i know personally about if you want to ask fordvg. Imagine wearing a gilley suite in the desert! or a cold swamp where jute has never been known to grow. This show deliberately deceives the viewer while appearing to be the real thing. Shame of these people including the real soldiers who participate in this lying nonsense.

5 years 31 weeks ago, 5:56 PM

Ebear

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is that Scooby Doo is not real!!!!!

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5 years 31 weeks ago, 6:07 PM

uglymech6153

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ironkoji

ahh...I see perhaps that is why they are snipers the ghillie suite on the show is to throw everyone off and think they are not really snipers? LOL

The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps! Eleanor Roosevelt, First Lady of th
5 years 31 weeks ago, 6:22 PM

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uglymech153:

Hey, I worked with the Filipino, Singaporean, and Israeli sniper teams in the field and none of them owned or ever even talked about a gilley suit. If any American Sniper Teams actually use them, then it's nothing but pure stupidity. A gillie suit serves zero purpose in camo and concealment. No sniper team I ever worked with ever wore or owned one and when asked about them the universal reply was a confused and slightly annoyed stare.

5 years 31 weeks ago, 6:43 PM

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Ironkoji?

Seams kind of funny that you worked with a bunch of foreign sniper teams and you do not mention any Americans. My Dad served for 21 years as an Army Special forces sniper and he used a ghille suit several times. If ghille suits did not work then they would probably would not still be in production. Hell just for arguement sake some of the 3-D leafy camo made by all the major camo manufacturers are a civilian ghille suit. I own three of these and I can sneak up on anything that walks on American soil. I will give you this a ghille suit is not used for urban sniping, but for shots where you depend on foliage to mask you they are the only way to go.

“If ever time should come,when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of it's experienced Patriots to prevent it's ruin."Samuel Adams
5 years 31 weeks ago, 6:23 PM

Ebear

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Snake

sleeps in his

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5 years 31 weeks ago, 6:26 PM

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if you call

throwing beats, sleeping

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5 years 31 weeks ago, 6:26 PM

uglymech6153

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Ghillie suit

I am in mine right now. We used them in the Corps for C&C classes

The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps! Eleanor Roosevelt, First Lady of th
5 years 31 weeks ago, 6:45 PM

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uglymech153:

good for you. are you currently in the field, under fire, with the responsibility of covering your buddies' asses? If you are I expect the enemy sniper is drawing a bead on you this second. Get rid of the suit and save your life so you can continue to protect the lives of those in your charge. Believe it or not the finest snipers I've ever had the pleasure to work with are the Filipinos who are currently involved in a life and death struggle for their democracy and system of government against tens of thousands of Abu Sayaf insurgents who wish to overthrow the Filipino government by brute force, murder and any means that comes to hand. The Filipino Marine Scout Snipers are among the finest in the world and only Israeli Air Wing Commandos and Singaporean Scout Snipers are their equal. I would rate American Snipers fourth behind those three. We need new tactics, new forms of camo and concealment and most of all, new weaponry to match the superb quality of the sniper weaponry available to these three countries. Especially the Filipinos who are most expert at making do with just what they have. Fighting Abu Sayaf in the mountains of Luzon or the jungles of the other islands in the Philippines Archepelago is no trick for beginners or the improperly trained and equipped. And none of the Filipino, Israeli or Singaporean Snipers use gillie suits for the sole and only reason of protecting their own lives so they can protect the lives of their fellows in the field.

Koji

5 years 31 weeks ago, 6:54 PM

uglymech6153

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Koji

Just sayin there is a place for them.

You see I am unsure of the capacity that you worked with these snipers but The few Americans I know would be willing to say that their suits have saved their lives a number of times, and by saving their lives it saved the lives of hundreds of their fellow Americans. The Art form of sniping is too personal to argue this. Carlos Hathcock had his preference and the Filipinos have theirs.

The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps! Eleanor Roosevelt, First Lady of th
5 years 31 weeks ago, 7:22 PM

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uglymech153:

dear colonel,

I worked as a Captain and Trainer of a well known Corporate Security force. I served as both a scientific advisor and Designated Marksman to the Filipino Marine Scout Snipers teams and in the field under fire to protect VIPs. I worked in similar capacities to both the Israeli Air Wing Commando snipers and the Singaporean Scout Sniper teams. Being shot at by anyone who wants you dead for than they want their next breath of air is an unnerving experience. The Abu Sayaf in the Philippines were the worst and most deadly enemy I ever faced under fire. No gillie suits were worn even in the jungle by the Filipino Marine Scout Snipers. They wore standard jungle camo uniforms and sometimes applied foliage, but usually this was not necessary. These Filipino Snipers are superb marksmen, and yes in the Philippines they are all male and have no female marines or snipers. However the single best shot marksperson I ever saw at work in the field under fire was a First Lieutenant in the Israeli Air Wing Commando Special Forces Group, Gideon. She was the best shot I've ever seen in my life and under my own observation made a good one shot one kill shot at 2000 meters. Asside from this my position was to guard and protect the lives of VIPs in all three of the combat solutions I've been involved with, including a a three year stint with the Filipinos, a two year stint with the Singaporeans and a 5 years stint with the Israelis. I fought in both Intafadas and watched, in both horror and fascination as Israeli commanders made decisions concerning what to do with rock throwing children. In most cases the commanders ordered the kid's right or throwing arm be broken. If the offending Palestinian boy threw two rocks then they broke both of their arms. If the child was armed with a firearm, they were shot dead as if they were any adult soldier. The Israelis don't mess around and in case you were not aware, they have more qualified, fully trained snipers than the US Army has men and women in all our armored army forces combined. In fact they have more armored brigades with main battle tanks than we do. We have four fully armored divisions, the Israelis have 12. And their Merkava 5 Main Battle tank is the equal of any main battle tank in the world including the Brit Challenger 2s and the American M1A2 main battle tanks. But I'm a Special Forces expert and my expertise only extends to armor to things like the super long range sniping capabilities of the Bushmaster 25mm and 30mm rapid fire auto-cannons. Gillie suits simply suck and do not do the job they were originally intended to as these suits make snipers stand out not blend in. The three finest sniper squad groups in the world have proven this true under my personal observation and under fire experience.

5 years 31 weeks ago, 7:31 PM

uglymech6153

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Koji

I will not pretend that I have the experience that you do. But we will have to agree to disagree. I know too many men who have had their lives saved by these suits that suck and do not do the job.

The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps! Eleanor Roosevelt, First Lady of th
5 years 31 weeks ago, 7:32 PM

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uglymech

NAMES!!! we need names!!!!

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5 years 31 weeks ago, 7:35 PM

uglymech6153

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lol

Is this a blood thirst?

The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps! Eleanor Roosevelt, First Lady of th
5 years 31 weeks ago, 7:36 PM

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no

payback!!!

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5 years 31 weeks ago, 7:38 PM

uglymech6153

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ebear

hows Carlos Hathcock he used one and got away with being within feet of NVA.

The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps! Eleanor Roosevelt, First Lady of th
5 years 31 weeks ago, 7:42 PM

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ok

but i meant in the last hour or so.....

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5 years 31 weeks ago, 7:44 PM

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nothing off

nothing off the top of my head but I could make something up.

The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps! Eleanor Roosevelt, First Lady of th
5 years 31 weeks ago, 7:45 PM

Ebear

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you've got a point

just wear a hat and no one will see it

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5 years 31 weeks ago, 8:02 PM

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ebear

Are you the proud owner of the Baby Eagle yet?

5 years 31 weeks ago, 8:03 PM

Ebear

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yeah man

I did it!!now i can sleep!!!!lololol

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5 years 31 weeks ago, 7:59 PM

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In this subject with Ironkoji because guys like this have got to be right all the time. Sounds like a blackwater asshole to me, loyal to the all mighty dollar and not God and country. He can say anything he wants to and we will know the truth behind the ghille suit.

“If ever time should come,when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of it's experienced Patriots to prevent it's ruin."Samuel Adams
5 years 31 weeks ago, 8:02 PM

uglymech6153

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wholey fuck

someone agrees with the Uglyone. LOL and at least you can spell it. I am certain after spending time in the Philipines that the reason they dont use them is because they fucking sold them to the other side for 25 cents and a big mac.

The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps! Eleanor Roosevelt, First Lady of th
5 years 31 weeks ago, 8:05 PM

Ebear

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save me the wrapper

i need a carry case for my Jericho!!!

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5 years 31 weeks ago, 8:03 PM

hillbilly77

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Besides Mech

The real reason he does not like ghille suits are because they cover up his LL bean khaki pants and his tacticool vest.Not to mention the suit messes up his pretty hair and the face camo gives him pimples.LOL

“If ever time should come,when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of it's experienced Patriots to prevent it's ruin."Samuel Adams
5 years 31 weeks ago, 8:07 PM

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ebear

Is momma going to let you sleep with the Baby Eagle between your legs?

5 years 31 weeks ago, 8:09 PM

uglymech6153

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hillbilly77

he uses face camo but does it all cool like arnold in commando.

[holds Sully upside-down over a cliff by his leg] Listen, loyalty is very touching. But it is not the most important thing in your life right now! But what IS important is gravity! I have to remind you Sully, this is my weak arm!

The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps! Eleanor Roosevelt, First Lady of th
5 years 31 weeks ago, 8:15 PM

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Favorite line in the movie he pushes the guy against the pipe and says" let off some steam."

“If ever time should come,when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of it's experienced Patriots to prevent it's ruin."Samuel Adams
5 years 31 weeks ago, 8:19 PM

uglymech6153

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personally

I like this one

Matrix: Don't break radio silence until they see me.
Cindy: How will I know?
Matrix: Because all fucking hell is going to break loose

The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps! Eleanor Roosevelt, First Lady of th
5 years 31 weeks ago, 8:21 PM

Ebear

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????

what gay porno is that from????

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5 years 31 weeks ago, 8:25 PM

uglymech6153

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ebear

look queer not go back to your cookies and cream and dont fuck with Arnold again.

The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps! Eleanor Roosevelt, First Lady of th
5 years 31 weeks ago, 8:27 PM

Ebear

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ok ok

im outta here goodnight all!!!!

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5 years 31 weeks ago, 8:28 PM

uglymech6153

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g/n

keep billy ray out of your mind

The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps! Eleanor Roosevelt, First Lady of th
5 years 31 weeks ago, 8:10 PM

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yup

right next to Baby Anaconda!!!!

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5 years 31 weeks ago, 8:13 PM

uglymech6153

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SamD

the guys showed me a pic of you in your hot tub earlier...damn you have been working out. lmao

The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps! Eleanor Roosevelt, First Lady of th
5 years 31 weeks ago, 8:15 PM

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Working out?

If you believe that shit!

5 years 31 weeks ago, 12:48 AM

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Dallas, TX
Always right?

No not at all. I am far from perfect. I'm not a saint and have no intentions of becoming one. No I do not have to be right all the time. But I have told the truth and not exagerated and no i did not work for Blackwater. I worked for a company that would consider any blackwater trooper or officer a traitor to the US. the company I worked for, is owned and opperated by the federal government and I was under the same rules and regs as any regular soldier, and I am proud of this. It's my flat feet that kept me out of the regular Air Force. I am a licensed pilot and helicopter pilot. It's a fact that even in the jungles the Filipinos never used gillie suits. The people who thought gillie suits were the funniest thing were the Israelis, and that's because a gillie suit stands out in the desert like a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs. I don't hold grudges against any of you who disagree with me. I appreciate those who are decent about it and merely ignore those who are not. And if any of those guys have never been under fire then you should have nothing of value to say, even in a country where freedom of speech is guaranteed by force of arms if necessary. The Filipinos had a nickname for me. They called me, The Dancing Tiger, and with good reason. I have put my life on the line for our beloved country and for our allies and friends. Any of you who diss me can say the same then i will listen. if not, then what in hell are you doing on this forum? God bless you all anyway, those especially who are decent in their disagreements, but for those of you who are mean, well it's obvious you never put your life in harm's way to defend our country and our country's VIPs as well as our friends and allies and their VIPs too.

Koji

5 years 31 weeks ago, 6:42 PM

ronin1604

ronin1604's picture

Rank:
Lieutenant General
Points:
801
Join Date:
Aug 2008
Location:
killeen, texas

I never worked in the positions you were, I'm just a lowly foot soldier. But, I've used a ghille suit before and with devistating effectiveness. The key to the suit isnt what it's made of, but how you prep it. It's like velcro for better concealment. It does break up your profile, but if imprperly prepared, it might as well be pink. It is a base to modify to your surroundings. Is it usable in all situations? NO! But if used prperly and in the right enviroment, I've had people within 20 feet of me and my position, looking for me and not succeeding. Maybe it was thinking invisable thoughts. No, I didn't have a cool movie nickname, but I was hunted. Living in combat is about doing what works and leaving the attitude at the door. Take a couple of lessons and open your mind, camo doesn't need to be a pile of jute fiber, but it does work.

__________________ "...He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one." - Jesus, Luke 22:36
5 years 31 weeks ago, 6:53 PM

Schuyler

Schuyler's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
3905
Join Date:
Nov 2008
Location:
Bainbridge Island, Washington, United States

"Living in combat is about doing what works and leaving the attitude at the door."

No truer words. Thanks for the reminder that a bad-ass attitude is no substitute for brains.

I think some people are taking themselves a little too seriously here. Really. Chill. Be tolerant. If you can't make your point in two or three sentences, you're not making it.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
5 years 31 weeks ago, 7:34 PM

Ironkoji

Ironkoji's picture

Rank:
Points:
397
Join Date:
Apr 2009
Location:
Dallas, TX
Ronin

Actually the nickname came from a martial arts style called the dancing tiger. Mado, Aikido and several others, and in some ways it is not unlike the tiger style from the Shao Lin. I teach martial arts and before the heart surgery when I was still in the business, I taught martial arts to some Special Forces groups of our allies and friends. I was in the field with Filipino Marine Scout Sniper and they are very clever and imaginative and fun-loving people, outside of business. In the field the FMSS SFs wore ordinary jungle green camo. I understand that in standard American schools of sniping they have their own methods and sciences and have developed an American concept of sniping and it pays close attention to things like stealth and stalking. Just remember there are other schools and other ways of thinking about the skill of sniping. I and my teams depended on our snipers for our lives. These guys covered are collective asses. So I have a very good feeling about them. They indeed have their own school of thought and their own concepts of this very dangerous business and it works. Yes I have worked with American sniper teams and they are very good at the business it's apples and oranges. Really, I enjoy my time here and I don't like to fight with people over disagreements and misunderstands. Your comments are valid and well thought out and expressed. I appreciate that a lot, and there may not be as much disagreement around here as might be thought. I hope I have not offended anyone and if I have please accept my appologies.

5 years 31 weeks ago, 9:05 PM

ronin1604

ronin1604's picture

Rank:
Lieutenant General
Points:
801
Join Date:
Aug 2008
Location:
killeen, texas
Ironkoji

I can agree compleatly with your last post. I've been in situations and used tricks that were wayyyy out of the box for the american military thinking. You are compleatly right, apples and oranges. I wasn't trying to start a pissing contest, but it seemed to me you were saying it was worthless what we are taught, and it's not. I think we will both agree that camoflauge and a sniper that can successfully blend, regardless of his situation has a higher chance of survival. While i was on mission, I found that adaptability and situational awareness keep you alive more often then any suit, to include body armour will. But as long as everyone, to include myself, keeps an open mind, much can be learned from others experience.

__________________ "...He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one." - Jesus, Luke 22:36
5 years 31 weeks ago, 11:31 AM

Gunnin88

Gunnin88's picture

Rank:
Major General
Points:
515
Join Date:
Jan 2009
Location:
Belfair, Washington
going next year

http://www.sniperschool.com/

01*20*2013 Obamas last day!

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