one of my friends likes the 30-06 better than .308 but i disagree with him personally i like the 7.62X54R. i think than the .308 is better than 30-06.
between the two. The -06 has more punch, but the .308 is generally regarded as the more accurate of the two. Either one is a damned sight better than the 7.62x54, though.
The only diffents between the 30-06 and the 308 is case size and the amount of gunpodwer. 30-06 having the bigger brass case. They (30-06,308) shoot the same bullet. The 7.62x54 is a Russian round. I love the .308 for out to 1,100 yards. But, if you want a great round for a 1,000 yard shot of more then the 300 Win. Mag. round is a great round to use.
Finaly somthing I can Help on! I have shot plenty of 7.62x54R ammo. My ex-Mosin nagant was the same cal. I would trust my life to a mosin nagant more than a barrett.
have you ever shot a Barrett rifle before?
yup once. M82 .50 put 5 rnds down range. liked it for speed and the semi auto. but i liked the mosin nagant for the bolt action and the stripper clips. and a lighter rnd.
ok, big differece between the 2 rifles and rounds. Like saying a BMW and a Chevy are the same. Is what I'm saying!!
I know there is a big difference. the big .50 is great and all but i just like the Mosin Nagant because of its service in WWII and there easy to get.
Are you sure you are from the good old US of A or not. You sound more like a Russian that an American. The 308 and 30-06 are both better rounds than the 7.62x54 which is really a .310 bullet and not a 7.62 like they say.
yup im an american. Born in FT.Texas. Shot the mosin Nagant in 1998 when i was 8. had one from wwII and one so called "replica" but i didnt think it was a "replica" just like old guns thats all.
i love my mosin nagant too, it has alot more lead than the 30-06 or the .308. i just wish i could get a scoop for it. you can oder the mounts but they look
hard to put on.
fordvg do mean that the mosin nagant is a .310 or the .308. because the 7.62x54r has the exact same neck diameter as my ak's round.
and ak's too all use a bullet of .311 diameter due to the way things are measured.that is why,generally,on milsurp guns that milsurp ammo tends to be more accurate
I gotta disagree with milsurp gun w/ milsurp ammo there GP, the best round I ever ran through my M44 was some Sellier & Bellot 180gr(sp's) I almost had sub MOA with them at 100 yards... next would be the 180gr FMJ from Wolf Ammo...
ok,your kinda right.sellior and bellot,and wolf arent made in the US.basically,they are using .311 bullets since they measure differently than us.
Yeah that's a good point I did forget about that. But what sucks about the russian milsurp ammo is they usually will end up damaging your barrel after awhile...
it will only damage the gun if you dont clean it.the primers are corrosive causing rust.
I like .308 out to 1,000 yds., then .300 win mag, then .338 lapua, then finally the good ol .50BMG for the longest.
I have no experience with .408 but hear its good as well
i agree with dystubenrauch the 54R is a hell of a round, that is a perferred round to take down big game in Texas, Alaska and Canada... eh.
I haven't shot a .308 in a while and never a 300 win mag, .338, or the 50 but I've heard nothing but good things about their potential as a long range round...
still though if you've got a steady hand with the 54R, it's cheap as hell to use, $80 rifle compared to a $500 rifle... can't beat that.
still though if you've got a steady hand with the 54R, it's cheap as hell to use, $80 rifle compared to a $500 rifle... can't beat that.
Where can I get an $80 rifle??
I got mine in Texas at a Big 5 Sporting Goods store
i got mine for $100 bucks at a gander moutain and it was $60 for 300 round of ammo.
It is not the perferred round for big game in Canada, though i have heard of a small minority using it. I guided in Alaska for a couple of years and never seen any big game hunters use it there either....eh
Perferred I guess is not the right word, but the power behind it is ideal for taking down big game.
I just picked up a m44 today for 65.00. Not a bad rifle for the price. The bolt didn't match but the head space was good. I'm gonna shoot it tomarrow. I've got a 91/30 exsniper. (no scope or turned down handle but repaired stock and plugged reciever) It shoots really well with milsurp. and at $4 for 20 rounds I'm not complaining.
Loud as hell with a great fireball, My neighbor from up the street came down to see what I was blowing up. Said I made him spill his coffee on the first round. He fired a few and said he wanted one. We're going to the shop this afternoon to look.
There is no way that round is the preferred round for any kind of big game hunting. Not unless you're saying the Mosin Nagant or SVD Dragunov is the preferred hunting rifle. Come on, guys. Yeah, it'll kill shit, but it isn't nearly as accurate as the .308, .30-06, or .300 win mag. There's a difference between saying you like a round for its cheap price and saying it's better than other, obviously better rounds.
screw the accuracy even though I have near sub moa out of one (come it's a WWII rifle) but that round has an ability to knock down shit better than most. You know the havalina in Texas never seen one get up after the 54R, but I have seen them get up from 30-06's... sometimes we do all forget that it's not always about accuracy but knock down power to even though that is the main 1911 argument.
I agree Runaway. Never seen a new rifle chambered in 54r. Only military surplus and a few garage customizes.I don't know anyone who used it for hunting, I mostly stick with .243 and 300mag. Never said it was better just cheap to shoot. It would do the job on deer but to me it's just a fun round to play with.
It's a Russian design and like or not there is probably some bull shit political argument behind it all. Russians were making sniper kills with it that were remarkable for the time frame yeah there is better stuff out there now but considered a computer barely fit in a room at the time compared to now... it is still a very good rifle and round... and in true russian design it was built to be a hammer too... I have used the bolt for things that you would never do with a new rifle and I swear it shoots better than when I first got it.
there is no way to compare by saying some animals went down with one round and not another. At least not with rounds so close. I have seen Javelina taken with one 9mm FMJ round here on post. Does that mean the 9mm is more powerful than the .30-06? Of course not. The fact is the 7.62x54R is a cheap round found in cheap guns. Anyone who would trust their life to a mosin nagant over a Barrett (I won't name names, but they have no limbs and eat their food whole) must not value their life very much. There is no way an informed person would take the russian round over the -06 unless it's for financial or nostalgic reasons.
I just checked around wyattcl and the reason is you haven't seen a new rifle chambered in 54R is because they newest rifles chambered in 54R are still being used by the Russian military, the only 2 rifles you would be able to get factory are older versions of the SVD and Mosin-Nagant and to add to the political debate I'm sure no American gun maker is going to adopt a "Commie" design. The 54R seems to be the adopted sniper round for Russian military and police agencies even now, other than that the use a 9mm, a 9.3mm, and a .22LR.
There's the commie design theory flaw. The 7.62x54R is not a good round when there are so many already established.
Established? In the U.S.? Come on runaway popularization of a round does not establish that is better then another that is the theory you are using, because this is what is common and excepted in the U.S. that it is the best. I'm not saying the 54R is the best only excruciating trials between them all could determine a winner... If you wanna look at the time frame I bet the 54R was virtually unknown till probably the soviet union fell and their arms started being sold to the U.S. at least in the U.S. and that was way after the 30-06, .308 were long known and proven in the U.S.
And as far as the Ruger mini-30 I agree it is a crap rifle, but it's not cause of the round, it's cause Ruger f-ed up the design not cause it uses an AK round... Kalishknov didn't go to Strum and Ruger and say use my round or i'll mustard gas you guys... come on now, that was poor planning on their part...
I'm sorry runaway... ballistic coefficiant only has so much to do with it if the rifle was crap the bullet ain't gonna get there... the differences are gonna be so close that we're just nitpicking I use the 54R a lot it is my hunting rifle, you use the 7.62 NATO, 30-06, .308, .300 win mag cause you are in the military we're gonna see it from our personal sides...
remember,.30-06,.303 British,8mm Mauser,and the 7.62x54R were all created around the same time frame.alot of the mosin nagant rifles were built for the russians here in the US during the first world war.
But never used by U.S. they went straight to their respective countries, the 54R's design stayed in Russia till probably the fall of the Soviet Union
was in reference to where you said the russian cartridge was virtually unknown until the fall of the soviet union.this is incorrect.
But known by the general public as we know about it today? sure I can't be exact on a date... but it is a safe historical assumtion based from political and economic history in the 20th century..
My comment about it not being good due to the others established was not a comment on the round, it was a comment on the reason major gun manufacturers do not make guns chambered for it. It is not a good enough round to cause shooters/hunters to want to give up what they already have. As for the mini thirty, that showed the flaw in your theory that american companies won't mass produce rifles chambered for communist rounds. The mini-thirty is a very popular rifle. The mosin nagant series rifles will only outshoot basic american hunting rifles if you have a wonderful mosin and below average american rifle. I don't use those three rounds because I'm in the military. in point of fact, i don't use any of those three rounds. I don't hunt big game. When I do, it will be a .308 or .30-06 instead of the 7.62x54R not because I'm military, but because they are better rounds and easily available in better guns than the mosin nagant.
Okay runaway I will see if I can upload a scan of a target where I shot a "J" around a cloths pin at 100yards... I wasn't going for MOA but just to put the "J" around it look at that and tell me it isn't as good as the others...
okay pictures up
I like the 308 and the 30-06. That is just me, if you like the 7.62x54 round to hunt and shoot with, GREAT! I'm planning on tring the new 6.5 Creedmoore round for hunting and target. What ever round you like stick with that one. I like to check out new rounds and see how they do.
Honestly, I sincerely doubt that anyone here just sticks with one round. I'm pretty sure everyone here is a bit like you and likes to try out new rounds and new rifles and different configurations. by the way, I heard that the reason the US military went with the 7.62 NATO wasn't because it was more accurate, but rather that it was cheaper. It uses less brass, less powder, and about the same grain of bullet as the .30-06. Not to mention the other reason was they were having problems with the cartridge of the .30-06 working in semi and full automatic weapons which once that was taken care of, the "more accurate" .308 waited on the back burner. At least this is just what I've read. Doesn't mean it's true. Not everything written is true. So I wouldn't base the true "value" of a cartridge on it's dollar value.
another reason for the lack of american made rifles not being chambered for the 7.62x54R is because of the R.which means rimmed.consider what kind of cartridges are/were popular,besides the 30-30 based cartridges.even the H&H cartridges aren't rimmed they are belted.
I can belive that as being the original reason for the switch. The ability to carry more ammo was a big reason to go to the M16 from the M14. I have never said the 7.62x54R was not good, just not as good as the .308 or .30-06. The reason I say this is the lack of decent rifles chambering this round. Tacdoc, if you'll look at my earlier post, you'll see that I didn't say it's not possible to get 1 MOA with that round, just that in order to have a more accurate rifle, the mosin would have to be above average and the american hunting rifle would have to be below average. As for having problems with the .30-06 operating well in semi and auto weapons, I have three examples why that is not the case: M1 Garand, BAR, and M1919 achine gun
I know that the M1 Garand, BAR and 1919 use the .30-06. In fact the BAR was the rifle that put the .308 on the back burner. It was the rifle that showed that the .30-06 would work well. I said that initially there were issues, but once resolved the .308 went on the back burner. Also I'm really just trying to say that the .308 isn't significantly better than the .30-06. I will agree that the 54r is not as accurate. Though I do believe it is very close.
It doesn't have to be superb I did that with the current configuration that is posted on here... the action and barrel is the original WWII configuration... the muzzel crown is fowled on my rifle it does show primer rust in the breach and aft-end of the barrel I don't have an Ideal mosin and I was able to do that and I'm not that great of shooter... you say that it's not as good but you haven't given a reason why... I'm done
See my second post on your target pic. That's my reasoning.
Some funny people in here. I read that one guy prefers a Mosin nagant to a Barret and another guy compared big game hunting in Alaska and Canada to that of hunting in Texas. My god I have not had a chuckle like this in some time.
Okay anyway ya know as far as long range goes I have had some incredible shots with two diffrent hunting rifles a 270 winchester and a 243 both guns can reach out a good distance for hunting rifles. 243 lacks the big game punch but excellent distance.
I will just have to bring my .338 lapua with me it should cover all the possible game I may come across deer, elk, Volkswagens. The best part is I should be able to stop them out to a 1000 meters.:-)