Forums / Off Topic / Trials and tribulations.......

2 years 31 weeks ago, 6:48 PM

HampsterW

HampsterW's picture

Rank:
Secretary of State
Points:
7723
Join Date:
Jan 2010
Location:
Cottonwood Heights, Utah, United States

It has come to my neighborhoods collective attention that someone thinks it's a good idea to turn a previously vacant home into a "sober living rehab group home" in the neighborhood and I thought I would get your input.......

Back story: The lady who owns the home fancied herself a 'real estate mogul' back at the height of the bubble and bought herself a huge 'pile' of a house in another neighborhood not far away, neither of which they seem to be able to get out from under. Since the downturn, I think that her and hubby have been saddled with two mortgage payments so I believe them somewhat desperate to to make something happen.

Well, a friend of hers is a recovered/recovering drug addict/alcoholic who will run this 'home' and her plan seems to be subletting this property to him for his rehab group, housing up to 14 males between the ages of 18 and 30 who are recovering alcoholics and drug abusers.....nice!

Needless to say everyone is none too pleased, there are meetings planned this week with the mayor/city counsel regarding zoning laws, land usage, crime rate and this being general bad idea.

I won't list all of my concerns on this issue as I think that pretty much goes without saying but I do have an 11 yo daughter and a 15 yo son at home and a lot of shit that I have worked hard for over the years including a 'ton' of guns that I don't care to part with, what happens if one of these dudes 'falls off the wagon'?

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
2 years 31 weeks ago, 6:55 PM

Vaquero

Vaquero's picture

Rank:
General of the Army
Points:
5482
Join Date:
Dec 2009
Location:
West Texas
Tough call Hamp

I do indeed see your side. I can understand the "real estate mogul" too.
This sounds like a train wreck waiting to happen.
However, when I consider someone who really wants to change their lot in life and could make a go of it, well, "but for the grace of GOD, there go I".

Yep, tough call. I don't envy ya.

Odds are, most of 'em are gonna be a problem. Very few will climb above it.

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
2 years 31 weeks ago, 7:14 PM

HampsterW

HampsterW's picture

Rank:
Secretary of State
Points:
7723
Join Date:
Jan 2010
Location:
Cottonwood Heights, Utah, United States
Yep Vaq, I

quit smoking three years ago, hardest damn thing I ever did, took me five or six try's over the years....So I am no stranger to the concept of addiction and that scares me the most, I know what these dudes are going through but buying cigarettes at the 7-11 is just not the same as the potential for other crime in my book.

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
2 years 31 weeks ago, 7:22 PM

Vaquero

Vaquero's picture

Rank:
General of the Army
Points:
5482
Join Date:
Dec 2009
Location:
West Texas
Hamp

I've never seen a meth head come out of it and stay out. Unfortunately I know quite a few.
I can count the recovered on 1 finger. Addiction is an ugly thing for sure, and makes people do ugly things. Hopefully the city elders will do right by you and your neighbors.

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
2 years 31 weeks ago, 4:09 AM

Stang777

Stang777's picture

Rank:
Private First Class
Points:
3
Join Date:
Dec 2011
A Scary Situation

Hi Hampster,

I am very concerned about this home being turned into a place that would house addicts, so I did a Google search hoping to find some information about it and your post came up. I appreciate you providing the info about how this situation has come to be and thought I would post to let you know that. Thank you for posting what you did

I completely agree with your concerns about that home being used for this and I have many other concerns about it, as I am sure you do too. I hope we can find a way to make this not happen. I understand the need for places like that, but this neighborhood is not the place for it and I don't understand how anyone could have ever thought this was a good idea.

2 years 31 weeks ago, 7:09 PM

HampsterW

HampsterW's picture

Rank:
Secretary of State
Points:
7723
Join Date:
Jan 2010
Location:
Cottonwood Heights, Utah, United States
Stang777, sorry for

not answering this earlier, there was a lot of 'noise' from later posts last evening and I just kind of neglected this post.

First, I would assume that you are a 'local' within Enchanted hills subdivision and second, I can think of a hundred places in Salt Lake where this sort of thing would be better suited.

Understand that my speculation of the property owner and his/her situation is just that, simply my observations of the goings on in the neighborhood as I understand them, but I predict them somewhat accurate, hell, I am less than 50 yds from the property in question (redacted)

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
2 years 31 weeks ago, 9:22 PM

HampsterW

HampsterW's picture

Rank:
Secretary of State
Points:
7723
Join Date:
Jan 2010
Location:
Cottonwood Heights, Utah, United States

are "disabled" according to the current Federal REG's... so no State support, can't discriminate don't 'ya know........Play it by ear!

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
2 years 31 weeks ago, 9:30 PM

HampsterW

HampsterW's picture

Rank:
Secretary of State
Points:
7723
Join Date:
Jan 2010
Location:
Cottonwood Heights, Utah, United States
Update, the

owner of the property in question now resides in Kalimafornia..........Knock me over with a feather......!

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
2 years 31 weeks ago, 12:28 AM

daisycutter

daisycutter's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
4409
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
Arkansas

`

iyaoyas
2 years 31 weeks ago, 10:43 AM

HampsterW

HampsterW's picture

Rank:
Secretary of State
Points:
7723
Join Date:
Jan 2010
Location:
Cottonwood Heights, Utah, United States
Thanks Lou

I know it does.

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
2 years 31 weeks ago, 12:34 AM

Stang777

Stang777's picture

Rank:
Private First Class
Points:
3
Join Date:
Dec 2011
Not good news tonight

Hi Hampster,

It is no problem that you did not respond sooner, I understand.

Yes, I am one of your neighbors in that subdivision and this whole thing just stinks. I am not happy with the info that was given at the meeting tonight as it seems this thing is going to happen regardless of how we all feel about it. Thanks to the federal laws, there does not seem to be much that can be done.

I am afraid that what once was a seemingly safe neighborhood no longer will be and I don't buy for a minute that it won't drop property values. I am afraid that even though the people who will live there are supposedly trying to turn their lives around, it won't work and will only bring a criminal element to a very nice neighborhood.

Their paperwork states that they will keep the place nicely landscaped but I don't see that being the case if they just turn the whole front of the place into cement for parking, won't that look nice? Considering that everyone has to drive by that house to get in or out of the neighborhood, it will be seen by all every time they go anywhere, nobody will be able to miss it, including perspective home buyers who will want to know what that is all about.

I am not even a little bit surprised that the owners live in Cali now, it kind of makes sense. They don't care what it does to the neighborhood, they won't be affected by it, they will just sit back and rake in the rent and the people running the program will rake in $1,200, each month, per person in the program and the rest of the neighborhood will be screwed.

2 years 31 weeks ago, 10:32 AM

HampsterW

HampsterW's picture

Rank:
Secretary of State
Points:
7723
Join Date:
Jan 2010
Location:
Cottonwood Heights, Utah, United States
Well I guess we

will have to make the best of a bad situation, I don't know what else can be done except look out for each others property as best we can.......There goes the neighborhood!!!!!!

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
2 years 31 weeks ago, 11:33 AM

daisycutter

daisycutter's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
4409
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
Arkansas

sounding dumb or whatever but there is a home value loss issue here. You and your neighbors could see a real loss in actual value as a result of the shit-house being set up in your neighborhood. Burglaries, vandalism and assaults.

There is a quality of life issue as well. Your children cannot play freely without fear for their safety.

As crime increases your actual out of pocket costs could go up paying for higher insurance premiums and paying for minor losses such as covering graffitti and collecting refuse from on the streets.

There MAY be an attorney who specializes in this kind of stuff near you, dunno but for my $$'s worth I'd do what I could to keep the slime out of my neighborhood.
This from a former drug rehabilitation counselor who learned the truth.

iyaoyas
2 years 31 weeks ago, 11:49 AM

HampsterW

HampsterW's picture

Rank:
Secretary of State
Points:
7723
Join Date:
Jan 2010
Location:
Cottonwood Heights, Utah, United States
I understand that Lou

and we have at least two lawyers in the neighborhood (maybe more) but the general consensus is that due to Federal law (which law?) this will be shotgunned through. I was unable to attend the meeting last night as I had to pick up my son but my mother and aunt went in my stead so I will talk to one of the lawyers tonight when I get home from work.

As Stang777 has stated above and speaking to my mom, nobody is holding out much hope of being able to block this from happening, apparently the 'whole' have to suffer for the good of the 'few', how liberal is that?

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
2 years 31 weeks ago, 1:38 PM

daisycutter

daisycutter's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
4409
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
Arkansas

for applicable precedents should be no problem. The federal law would likely be Americans With Disabilities Act, how that would apply baffles me.
A suit against the owner of the house does not need to specifically point to drug addicted criminals moving into your neighborhood. Case law, if they can find some, regarding issues other than the addicted criminals (quality of life for example) could be the ticket. In the U.S., with the terrible tangled up laws on the books, just about anyone can be found in violation of something.
Since I am running my mouth about stuff I know little about I'll clam up now.
Once again, good luck !!!

iyaoyas
2 years 31 weeks ago, 3:15 PM

HampsterW

HampsterW's picture

Rank:
Secretary of State
Points:
7723
Join Date:
Jan 2010
Location:
Cottonwood Heights, Utah, United States
Lou, I believe that

there is language in the Federal Fair Housing Act that allows this sort of thing to happen, I am still researching it.

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
2 years 31 weeks ago, 10:21 PM

Stang777

Stang777's picture

Rank:
Private First Class
Points:
3
Join Date:
Dec 2011

are apparently the things that are making this something one cannot fight. They claim that the addiction is a disability. A nearby city (Draper) fought this sort of thing from opening in their neighborhood, they lost, to the tune of over 6 million dollars. That is why Cottonwood Heights is not willing to fight this in court.

I think the things that Daisycutter mentioned are the things to check out, if the group does want to hire an attorney to fight it. There will be some groups formed to investigate different avenues, but regardless of what we do, we certainly won't be able to do it in time to stop the opening of this place, which is slated for next month.

I have been told that those going in for treatment are not court ordered, they are going there voluntarily. The program is privately owned, it is not a state type facility that people are paroled to.

Not all people who do drugs are criminals, with the exception of the drug usage, so maybe it won't increase crime in the area. The people in the program are paying out a lot of money for the treatment, so maybe they really do want it to work and will make it work.

Fact is, drugs and those who use them are everywhere. We really could have many drug addicts living in the neighborhood now, only differences are, we don't know who they are or where they live and they are not in treatment to stop using

I think like you said Hampster, we will just have to make the best of a bad situation. I am just going to hope that it really won't be that bad.

2 years 31 weeks ago, 10:43 PM

HampsterW

HampsterW's picture

Rank:
Secretary of State
Points:
7723
Join Date:
Jan 2010
Location:
Cottonwood Heights, Utah, United States
True that Stang777

I am sure that there is no definitive answer....But I hope to 'circle my wagons' and lock my gate, see what plays out, what choice do we have?

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
2 years 31 weeks ago, 10:47 PM

Ishootdaily

Ishootdaily's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
4375
Join Date:
Feb 2009
Location:
Saint Petersburg, Florida, United States

to some?

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
2 years 30 weeks ago, 8:02 PM

open mind

open mind's picture

Rank:
Private
Points:
1
Join Date:
Dec 2011
wow

Hello everyone,
I am saddened to read almost everything on this page with exception for Fair Housing Act and Americans with Disabilities Act. I just have to wonder what would happen in the world if we all tried to support each other instead of judging each other, especially when so uneducated about a certain topic. A sober living is totally different then a court ordered halfway house. The people living in a sober living house are not allowed to use any substances, they are regularly drug tested, and usually have to have a certain amount of sobriety before even entering the house. I really encourage opening your mind a little to people who have struggled in life and truly want to change. Maybe if you thought about it and did the best you could to help instead of hinder, the world would be a little bit of a better place. I recommend that you watch a movie called happy valley! "STOP LOOKING OUT THE WINDOW AND LOOK IN THE MIRROR." Thank you for your time.

2 years 30 weeks ago, 8:45 PM

Ishootdaily

Ishootdaily's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
4375
Join Date:
Feb 2009
Location:
Saint Petersburg, Florida, United States
"wow" my ass

open mind wrote:
Hello everyone,
I am saddened to read almost everything on this page with exception for Fair Housing Act and Americans with Disabilities Act. I just have to wonder what would happen in the world if we all tried to support each other instead of judging each other, especially when so uneducated about a certain topic. A sober living is totally different then a court ordered halfway house. The people living in a sober living house are not allowed to use any substances, they are regularly drug tested, and usually have to have a certain amount of sobriety before even entering the house. I really encourage opening your mind a little to people who have struggled in life and truly want to change. Maybe if you thought about it and did the best you could to help instead of hinder, the world would be a little bit of a better place. I recommend that you watch a movie called happy valley! "STOP LOOKING OUT THE WINDOW AND LOOK IN THE MIRROR." Thank you for your time.

Your nuking futz. Want them living with you then you can rant and whine all you want. Till then go piss up a rope.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
2 years 30 weeks ago, 8:56 PM

Ishootdaily

Ishootdaily's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
4375
Join Date:
Feb 2009
Location:
Saint Petersburg, Florida, United States

I am not speaking about Qualifiers, but the actual staff and their back grounds, both positive and criminal?

Your going to whine then defend yourself and your position with the actual facts of why your halfway house is going to not be half assed and broken?

Tell us how you are absolutely positive that none of the people living there are going to back slide and commit crimes?

If you can't do that then hold your back door pandering for profit.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
2 years 30 weeks ago, 8:59 PM

daisycutter

daisycutter's picture

Rank:
General
Points:
4409
Join Date:
Jul 2009
Location:
Arkansas

I am a para-professional drug rehab counselor, retired. I know what you'll find in the population of drug rehab facilities. Watch your ass when in the company of those who have broken the law.

iyaoyas

Who's Online

Guns Lot Activity
Users
Currently Active Users: 1149 (1 member and 1148 guests)
presslerms

Guns Lot Statistics
Stats Topics: 8,642, Comments: 160,868, Members: 23,517
Welcome our newest member: Hank6046

Recent Activity