Forums / Political & Legal / As We Approach Year 2012............................

2 years 52 weeks ago, 3:49 PM

LLE

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My friends, there is little doubt that 2012 will present this country with a major directional challenge, perhaps as momentous as the American Revolution, the Civil War, and the two World Wars. In many ways, each of these events defined/redefined us as a nation. Of course many other events did so also, but we now find ourselves at a significant crossroad:
Will this nation continue on an ever-improving course of freedom, liberty, and justice as proclaimed in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States--OR will we emulate the many countries that have already proven socialistic dogma to be the ruination and enslaver of heretofore free peoples. I want my family and my friends to continue to enjoy the same unrivaled opportunity for personal and familial growth, that I have had over 80 years. I want my country to grow, develop and flourish in a far greater manner than it has, in the last 80 years. I want the United States of America to continue to improve and excell to heights of accomplishment never before dreamed of---but ALAS---I do not believe we can do that, if our individual differences are allowed to tear us apart. And I believe there are presently at work, forces who wish to do that. It does not take a genius to understand the "old formula"--divide and conquer. If we allow ourselves to be balkanized--economically, racially, religiously, politically, and that results in ever-increasing internal strife, we will weaken the core of our great strength, and we will make ourselves dangerously vulnerable to attack.

One of the great vulnerabilities that I believe we have is our diverse religious beliefs, and nowhere was that brought more forcefully and clearly to the forefront than by an editorial by Pat Buchanan, entitled, "WHOSE COUNTRY IS IT, ANYWAY?" In this opinion piece, Buchanan states that the USA is a Christian nation, and that Christianity is being attacked throughout the country even to the point of the mocking and ridicule of the celebration of Christmas. He accuses such people of saying to Christians, "...this isn't your country anymore. It is ours." [His words--no one else's]. Buchanan then ends with what he considers a very challenging question for Christians: DO THEY HAVE WHAT IT TAKES, TO TAKE AMERICA BACK?"

My friends, THIS is a perfect example of divide and conquer!! Let me ask you a challenging question. IMO, in order for you to answer and be true to yourselves as Constitution loving citizens, you also must ponder the place of religion in everyday life in the USA:

CAN OR SHOULD ANY RELIGION, OR ANY SET OF RELIGIOUS BELIEFS, OWN AND
DIRECT THIS COUNTRY?? [Think about it--The Koran/Sharia Law, The Old Testament,
The New Testament, etc.]
Where in the Constitution does it proclaim that [even though Christianity does not have to be practiced by all citizens] Christianity is the owner of the country, and where does it define what the term "Christianity" means, and who the landlords are?
NO. The citizens of the USA technically each own a "share" in the country, and they are the landlords. They direct the operation of the country in accordance with the Constitution.

So what point am I trying to emphacize? Be careful about what--[even] conservatives have to say. If we do not think about and analyze what people like Buchanan are saying, we may be participating in the polarization of "we the people", and therefore, potentially allowing ourselves to become so divided that we lose our country to those for whom freedom, liberty and the Constitution mean nothing. I am certain there are those who would love that to happen.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 52 weeks ago, 4:00 PM

HampsterW

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I have always been a firm believer in 'separation of church and state' (I live in Utah and we have constantly struggled with that).

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
2 years 52 weeks ago, 4:30 PM

LLE

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separation of church and state [legality], as it is getting people to drink the cool aid of " We are the religious majority, and therefore what 'we say' should stand for everyone, whether they like it or not"[sociology]. Buchanan, in this case is a classical polarizer. If I were interviewing him, I would have to ask him which Christian persuasion he believed should be the one to take America back, or was he speaking for all Christians? I am sure he would avoid the question, because to answer "Roman Catholicism" [his faith] would not be politically expedient, and to state he was speaking for all Christians would be loudly decried.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 52 weeks ago, 7:22 PM

HampsterW

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isn't it really the same thing? It is every bit the same scenario as the way Utah has been run since statehood, the Mormons are the majority in the legislature, they control the sale of liquor, I don't care what anyone says, the church has tremendous influence on politics.

It really needs to be 'church on Sunday, work on Monday and never the twine shall meet' as it applies to Utah or the Nation, it makes no difference. What we really need is a modern Theodore Roosevelt to pull this nation out of the shit hole to which it has descended.

Personally I can't stand the 'pandering to this group', 'pandering to that group', what is needed is a strong man to come in and tell it like it is, Dictator? NO! Leader? YES! Lead by the Constitution .........What was the quote? "Speak softly and carry a big stick" or something of that sort....I guess I'm done now.

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
2 years 52 weeks ago, 9:29 PM

LLE

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regarding Utah and the Mormon influence on how the State is run. By a confluence of events, it appears that Utah became almost a miniature theocracy in the midst of 49 other states whose citizenry reflect a religious mix that pretty much mirrors that of the USA in general. It is, in some respects similar to the influence of judaism in Israel. Many believe Israel is a theocracy, governed by the tenets of the religion, but that is in error. Israel is a parliamentary republic, and the politics are heavily influenced by political parties which have differing views of how the religion should affect law and governmental operation. My guess is that there is more unanimity of religiously oriented thinking in the Utah legislature than in the Israeli knesset, but there ARE political coalitions in both.
But both of those governmental instruments are different from Buchanan's [and others] vision of the USA being a Christian nation. What I believe he is [and they are] saying is that we would be far better off if we eventually became a New Testament theocracy, and those of other faiths, agnostics or atheists would either convert to an acceptable faith, or have to leave. That should sound familiar. It is precisely what our founding fathers wished to prevent from ever happening.

As regards our posture toward the rest of the world, I think Teddy had it right. I think we need more of his philosophy communicated in a carefully crafted manner, so as not to become the world's "bully" at least in the eyes of our international friends. It would, for me, be a more extreme statement---something like: We are the leaders of the free world, and our philosophy and policy is one of "Noblesse Oblige"--but DON'T EVER MESS WITH US.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 52 weeks ago, 4:49 PM

Builtf0rdtough

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Well, you sure make a man ponder. Im worried that our country is already divided so much that there is no repair, that it will take some sort of major catastrophe......nation wide, to even get the people who think alike to talk to each other and try to fix things. Just about everything in our country is screwed up, backwards, and makes no sense. If we could just go back to the basics, 90% of our problems would be fixed. The other 10% are the criminals, and yall can just leave them up to the boys in blue/green. :)

"Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy"-Winston Churchill
2 years 52 weeks ago, 5:07 PM

Vaquero

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I reckon

there's a lot of wisdom in LLE's words. I have no evidence to back it up, but I got a feeling in my gut that we are indeed on the cusp of a major shift. I just hope it goes the right direction.

The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!
2 years 52 weeks ago, 5:31 PM

Jeffashbyjr

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Wow

What a mind bender but what you say has a ring to it. Now here is my belife I belive in God I belive in America but I don't belive the two should be combined meaning we should not run the country based on the bible while the bible may have some good suggestions on punishment it is not a rule book, I belive in equal rights for everyone meaning you have the the right to try. I do not belive that the government should be our nanny and I am gonna stop before the MIB come knocking I kinda like my job

If you carry a gun, people call you paranoid. Nonsense! If you have a gun, what do you have to be paranoid about?
2 years 52 weeks ago, 10:28 PM

greg az

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Once again LLE's has posted a thoughtful commentary on the issue, and i'm in full agreement..It's easy to be swayed onto a religious (or any emotional) band wagon.. and just as easy to be mislead..

Those wanting to divide will use "wedge" issues. (flag burning, gay marriage, etc) to divert the subject from lobbyists and politics as usual.. It happens that i'm opposed to both of these issues. the first one rabidly, second as a corruption of the vow of marriage..

I want a leader as POTUS, not a candidate who favors an ideology of fear mongering, as opposed to solutions to the nations major problems.. our debt, unemployment, lack of manufacturing, complete and total failure of the education system, etc. While at the same time allowing the corrupt current system of K street lobbyist to have an open door to the administration.

My point is that any ideology that takes the place of the constitution is dangerous. exactly why I'm scared of those who wrap themselves in religion.. I'm truly honored to be called "padre" or the "un"official Chaplain, and in all honesty my faith is the most important thing in my life..That being said i have "issues" with organized religion..

Anytime the ideology becomes the platform there has to be problems.. Don't get me wrong, there's a huge difference between Christianity, and other faiths.. compare sharia Muslim law to Christian for example.. one embraces forgiveness, and love, while the other has a focus on infidels, and martyrdom..

I do think that our Nation was founded under God, and any effort to change those beautiful words should be fought with all we have, Outside of that, the founding fathers had it right with the separation of Church and State..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
2 years 51 weeks ago, 10:20 AM

HampsterW

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Christianity has had it's besmirches over the course of history as well, just throwing that out there to be fair. I am certainly not a champion of Islam etc. and I consider myself a Christian.

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
2 years 51 weeks ago, 10:55 AM

LLE

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I truly believe the Buchanan challenge question [referring to Christians of the USA: "Do they have what it takes, to take America back?"] needs to be modified, considering the present and near future domestic and international scene.

It is NOT the Christians who have lost the beloved USA. It is ALL of us, regardless of faith, or no faith at all. Each of us has felt our "share" slipping from our grasp; a myriad of every day life challenges have emotionally drained us and we have sold ourselves to the slick, word-picture saviors who promise "hope and change" which will take away all of our troubles.

The challenge question, IMO, needs to be: "Does our citizenry realize that they MUST take America back....NOW !?" The alternative can be seen in the failed, bankrupt nanny states where the major challenge is just staying alive.

I believe the 2012 presidential election will determine, which path the USA takes. In essence, it may very well be the last chance we have, to "take America back".

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 51 weeks ago, 1:56 PM

greg az

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I agree that were on the edge of the abyss.. I see the problem as one of denial.. The media had a couple of excellent voices who were pointing out the issues.. Thinking of Dobbs, and Beck here.. problem is there was so much "the sky is falling" rhetoric that i think they lost some of their validity, I'm one of those who stopped watching Beck as it seemed he was more interested in histrionics than accuracy..

Personally i think were looking over the edge enough that who we elect in 2012 makes this election the most important one that I have ever voted in..

I'm not quite as convinced as the media pundits that this election is the Republicans to lose..

Obviously no one is coalescing around one candidate yet.. I personally like Newt, based on his background.. Remember he ran the House under both Regan, and Clinton.. so clearly has the ability to reach across the isle and "produce"...Deal is i'm not sure what he'd produce, as Newt is all about big government and lobbyists..

Romney is the consummate politician, maybe thats the reason he can't seem to get traction.

Paul is .. wow... what is Paul.. Krauthammer calls him "wacky".. if anything im a Libertarian, and supported him in the past, but the last Fox debate where he was "fine" with the Iranians having nukes..Come on Ron.. The vast majority of Jewish voters (excluding NYC) will go Dem out of generations of loyalty, but his isolationism in the face of a Mideast that is progressively more radical Muslim, and progressively more anti American is naive..

Who knows.. Think tanks (brooking, etc) believe our involvement in Iraq, and the "Stan" have caused a lot of that hate.. Thing is we can't turn our back on Israel, and Paul is fine with doing that. Plus.. can you see him debate O'berry.. squeaky geez vs polished BS

Sanitarium reminds me of Eddy Haskell in leave it to beaver.. Just not presidential..

Bachman just scares me..

I like the heck out of Huntsman.. His China experience, and Governorship give him credibility, and i can't understand why he hasn't "caught on" .. unless its that elephant in the room of Mormonism that i think also plagues Romney..

Perry.. wow.. Pard likes him.. I think he's one of the voter friendly in the race.. who knows, the pundits all say the same thing here.. Don't count him out, as many have made that mistake in TX..

One thing is sure.. this one matters.. a lot will depend on how the supreme court rules on O'barry care.. This will be a make or break, and another reason POTUS is so important.. The supreme court is evenly balanced now, even with Kagan, and Sotomayor.. but another four years could (and would) change that and our future at the same time..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
2 years 51 weeks ago, 7:02 PM

LLE

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It might be just wishfull thinking, but I cannot help feeling that the people of the USA are not going to shoot themselves in the same foot, again. I have no facts to support that gut feel--only an abiding sense and faith in the native intelligence of the average voter. I admit that may very well be the heigth of naivete, but I sure hope I am right.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 51 weeks ago, 7:08 PM

Jeffashbyjr

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Hey uh LLE

Never Ever underestimate the power stupid people in large groups

If you carry a gun, people call you paranoid. Nonsense! If you have a gun, what do you have to be paranoid about?
2 years 51 weeks ago, 9:04 PM

Doomguard

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Ron Paul all the way

While a whole lot of people have bagged on Paul for his comments about Iran, thinking that the country with the worlds most advanced air force and top 5 special forces can't handle Iran is a little alarmist. Do we really want to spend more borrowed money from the Chinese to defend Israel when they have their own money to do so? Beyond that, Paul is the only candidate with an honest voting record and is outside the Washington establishment that has been putting the screws to the average citizen for over a decade. I agree with LLE, I think this election is the tipping point. If Obama gets reelected I expect him to come after gun rights with a vengeance. If Obama loses and we get another establishment POTUS who continues to pursue Keynesian economic policy, I believe we lose what's left of the middle class in America. I've been a Paul supporter since his 08 run, and I am certain there is no better candidate in the field who will have a real plan to bring back both our economic prosperity and protect our constitutional freedoms. Don't take it from me-but I think that if you really research Dr. Paul and the other candidates, it will be just as clear to you as it is to me that he is the only real choice.
One last thing on Iran. Even if they had 10 nukes, I'm confident that they understand the concept of mutually assured destruction, and nuclear or not, as an American I do not fear them.

Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state. -Thomas Jefferson
2 years 51 weeks ago, 9:46 PM

Ishootdaily

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Quote:
CAN OR SHOULD ANY RELIGION, OR ANY SET OF RELIGIOUS BELIEFS, OWN AND
DIRECT THIS COUNTRY??

A man I consider to be very wise in the ways of Religion once told me that the only Difference between Organized Crime and Organized Religion is the collar worn.

Father Robert lives across the street from me with his family including his wife and 7, soon to be 8, children. He travels all the time all over the country while spending his off time around his home attempting to make life as normal as he can for his family.

He once had a church of his own but was pushed out the door and it was questionable if he would be allowed to stay with the Church at all. He actually had to go to the Vatican and was gone for about 4 months while they decided what to do with him.

In talking with him I found out that the issue came about because some people in his congregation had reported him as being less than desirable to lead their church. He has taken up the practice of opening it's doors to anyone and everyone who wished to enter them and he did not demand that they convert or change anything in their lives. His mind set is simple, if people wish to be in the house of God who is anyone to stop them or put any kind of restriction upon them for it.

Anyway, Father Robert and his family as all from Poland originally. He was part of the original Solidarity movement, and they escaped Poland when his best friend who had joined the Police warned him that people were going to be coming for him as they had another person who was part of the original group. (that person was found in the woods when the snow melted)

Anyway, the way he explained things to me was in Poland under Russian control you had three choices, Seminary, Police/KGB/Governmentally attached or the Military. He chose the church.

Anyone every read about the Cardinal in Chicago mentioning to a news reporter about how there is one Church Sanctioned Exorcist in the USA and no one would ever know who he is because he comes form the old country?

Well, it seems that the Vatican decided his indiscretions were not that bad, but he was moved from his previous church and was given his own in Tampa.

So now he has a church, a very old one actually, solid brick, with a pipe organ and tall ass steeples and such..

he still travels all over the country and some times out of the country doing his thing. He drinks his two Screw Drivers every night on his front porch and I still go over and shoot the breeze with him now and then.

Religion is not faith, religion is a process put together by men as a mens of guiding them to experience their faith with less failure or slipping on the path. Somewhere in time it got twisted, and all kinda out of wack and became the one true and only one means of being of or with the highest power.

some where in time, people fell for it and are still falling....

so, should any religion be in control of this country? no, frankly speaking, it pretty much isn't much different than politics and syndicated crime...

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
2 years 51 weeks ago, 7:35 AM

clintlebo

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M.A.D. only works if you are afraid to die. The Shah of Iran may be blinded enough by religion that he would consider himself a martyr for using nuclear weapons to attack Israel, Turkey, the U.S.A., or whatever country that does not bow to his whims. This set of events may or may not start a nuclear war, but will for sure cause a retaliation that has the potential to cripple middle east oil export. That is what we have to be afraid about. From a county that teaches children how to become suicide bombers, the world needs to isolate those madmen from the power of the atom.

clint

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin & Hobbes)
2 years 51 weeks ago, 9:34 AM

LLE

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my guess is we would have an entirely different relationship with Iran. The Shah is long gone, and Iran has been an Islamic theocracy since his demise. The fact is that Ayatolla Khomeine and "President" Ahmedinejad are Islamonazis, who, judging by their overt behavior/decrees/pro-
nouncements, are virulently psychotic, with delusions of grandeur. Their vision for the future is an Iran that becomes the leader of worldwide jihad, and thus establishes the Second Persian Empire, which at the very least will subsume all of the middle east, with an ultimate goal of the whole world. [sounds like that guy who said, "today, Germany, tomorrow the world", and we all know what would have happened if he beat us to viable nuclear weapons.]

One of our Republican presidential candidates has said that if we allow Iran to have nuclear weapons, "they will use them". While she would not be my candidate, IMO, she is correct in this statement. If we, and the rest of the free world permit this to happen, we will be participating in the possibility of our own demise, or at the very least, worldwide destruction on a scale never before contemplated. And history will record that the leader of the free world was most responsible for letting it happen.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 51 weeks ago, 10:43 AM

Ishootdaily

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of the Middle Eastern leaders and want to be leaders.

The NAZI did very well in the middle east with certain groups during both World Wars.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
2 years 51 weeks ago, 11:11 AM

clintlebo

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LLE

Thank you for the correction, I was hasty in my response and had temporary history amnesia...

clint

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin & Hobbes)
2 years 51 weeks ago, 11:22 AM

LLE

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Clint--No Problem, but

Don't let it happen, again !!

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 51 weeks ago, 11:56 AM

clintlebo

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Roger that LLE!!

clint

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin & Hobbes)
2 years 51 weeks ago, 4:02 PM

luckybychoice

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Irans nuclear program

has a way to go yet. Photobucket

i tried being reasonable,i didn't like it, NRA LIFE MEMBER,USMC VETERAN
2 years 51 weeks ago, 11:04 AM

Ishootdaily

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MAD?

I'm not sure that anyone in power over in the middle east as of today is going to be anyone to worry about in the future. It's the ones who take them out that we will have to worry about.

Russia, China and others are all doing as the US is doing and keeping an eye on the board.

Hell, even France plays in the sandbox and they hardly leave the house.

http://www.state.gov/t/isn/index.htm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2011/dec/21/syria-egypt...

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!
2 years 51 weeks ago, 8:35 AM

HampsterW

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Exactly,

the thought of those crazies having nukes scares the hell out of me. Since the U.S. and NATO don't currently posses the balls to do anything meaningful about a nuclear Iran, I think at the end of the day it will be Israel that puts an end to it.

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
2 years 51 weeks ago, 8:54 AM

Doomguard

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Most of the suicide bombers come from poor families in the middle east as far as most research on the subject indicates. I do not believe that the Shah falls into that category. I believe the Shah has visions of leading the caliphate reborn, which would be impossible to do from the grave. While I won't discount the possibility that you present wholly, I do not think it is probable. Imo, north Korea is a much greater threat than Iran when it comes to mad behavior, but they're garnering very little attention compared to Iran.
In regard to the oil, yes there is a potential economic impact. The other potential economic impact is an open conflict with Iran. We bled the Soviets dry in a manner very similar to what is going on with the US right now, and our political leaders are not making the tough choices necessary to resolve the issue.
We could be working on buying more north American oil right now, bit that is "politically inconvenient" for some, as one of many examples I could quote. I have to consider that if we do have an economic collapse due to the clear and evident failure of Keynesian economic policy, Iran won't seem very important. The China money spigot is going away, and the government "borrowing" from itself is not a sustainable model (it is, in fact, exacerbating the problem.). Iran is not the key issue in this election by a long shot. America's ability to retain its status as the world's most successful nation is. Every candidate I see except Paul doesn't have the vision to fix this. Paul is the only one who warned this would happen years before it did, and got laughed at for his trouble. I would rather vote for someone with vision than someone trying to coerce me with fear.

Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state. -Thomas Jefferson
2 years 51 weeks ago, 12:50 PM

greg az

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Let me preface this by saying your comment is obviously well written, and for the most part I'm in agreement. That being said a couple of errors...

Issue one: Most suicide bombers come from poverty.. Nope.. this was one of the surprises the western world had to deal with in the wake of increasing martyrdom.. Most analysts had assumed this was the case when suicide bombings first became the choice of extremists.
Only after the failed bombings in England did the combined intel groups let this out.

The news covered it in detail, bottom line is ,FBI, Interpol, and Scotland yard had done an in depth on the bombers make up. Everyone assumed that poverty was the breeding ground..they were amazed that the majority of suicide bombers were highly educated, and from wealthy families, if you remember this was also the case with those involved with Sept. 11 on our shore.. in short they found a direct correlation between education and suicide bombing. The only exception to this could be in the "stan".. where education pretty much stops with Madrases..

Issue two: Shaw, nope.. We (the west) might well have caused some of the dissent in Iran by appointing and "propping up" a dictatorship that was very unpopular with it's people..The Shaw was Pahlavi (sure im misspelling this) and was overthrown in 78 by the current theocracy of Ayatollah Khomeini and "President" Ahmadinejad.. Some of their rhetoric is for the "home town audience"..The think tanks discount "some" of the anti Zionist talk as just politics.. Course it has to be noted that this is a theocracy.. and martyrdom is at the heart of it..

Issue three: Is the Iranian issue an election issue.. I think it could be, but in all probability how the supreme court rules on the health care reform will trump this.. A lot will have to do with what happens in the next few weeks with Iranian threats to shut down the straight if we continue the economic sanctions..We really could be on the "brink" here.. and who "blinks" first has some "splain'n" to do as Ricky Ricardo would have said..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
2 years 51 weeks ago, 1:07 PM

greg az

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Ya think someone has to much time on his hands..sheesh.. A sincere apology here.. At the end of the above "diatribe" i congratulated you on what i felt was right.. that was MOST of your post, and an underscore to the China thing.. sorry that didn't post, as the above "looks" much more negative than was the intent..

(in edit) The above was a quick post after my last paragraph was cut off.. Guess i exceeded space or something..(wish that would happen more often lol).. This has bothered me every since it happened.. I quickly threw up the above.. but there's more involved here.. a LOT more..

Everything i believe in winds up altered by the negative only comment.. It's not what i am, and it's not why any of us (think anyway) love this site.. NOBODY should ever run the risk of posting a comment and then have a "slap down".. With the possible exception of mine above.. The omission of that last paragraph changed everything.. and again i hope this sincere apology corrects the issue. Fact is i really do agree with dooms statements visa vise the whole "china debt" thing, and agree that North Korea is a major threat.. bottom line, dooms im sorry the last paragraph didn't post, please know i wanted to correct, not slap down.

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
2 years 51 weeks ago, 12:43 PM

Doomguard

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you are correct Greg

In reference to the Shah-that should have been Ayatollah. Apparently I decided to repeat the term erroneously from an earlier post despite my familiarity with the history that you mentioned. In regard to the suicide bomber item, I did look at this sometime ago, so it's entirely possible my statement was based on obsolete data.
However, I do not think this changes the idea that neither Khomeini or Ahmedinijad are interested in leading their dreamed of caliphate from the grave. I also think hamp is correct that Israel will deal with them similar to Osirakis (sp?) in Iraq.
No offense taken, btw, I was wrong on that terminology and haven't looked at suicide bomber socioeconomics recently.
Also posting from a smartphone as I'm out of my usual area for work, so my posts are a little more time consuming atm.
I still can't place a possible (improbable in my opinion) war with Iran as a higher priority than the current economy issue. If the economy was different, might feel differently, but we're in many ways already over the cliff on the economy-what remains to be seen is if we are able to catch ourselves or if we keep accelerating the devaluation of our monetary value toward a real disaster.
If we end up on a Greek style situation where the various government entities can't make payroll to peace officers, payments from SSI to retirees, or pay retirement to their vets as just a few examples, that will be a very bad situation for many Americans.
Most of the people on this board are probably somewhat prepared for this kind of event-certainly more than the average American, but that's going to be only cold comfort if most of us end up as serfs because the government printed our wealth into oblivion. From what I see in current fed economic policy that is the direction we are heading.
I've been hedging my bets in case that ends up happening, but I certainly don't want it too.

Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state. -Thomas Jefferson
2 years 51 weeks ago, 1:02 PM

greg az

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Unless your capable of composing the above comment in 4 something min. i hope you check the (in edit) on my last.

Are we more prepared.. yes i'm sure we are, and yep cold comfort..(southern is much better)
but im not as convinced as you that some sort of event can't happen in the straights of Hormuz.. Iran has made it clear that our continuing sanctions will result in the closure of same, and i heard an analyst yesterday that expressed some concern with Iran's build up of non traditional weapons..(the hi speed torpedo, the use of MANY small speed boats) I can't imagine that the 5Th's CVN could be in danger.. but then again neither could we foresee Pear Harbor, or the events of 9-11.. I don't even want to talk about the possibility of losing a Carrier.. But if you consider how Iran would profit by an attack it makes it something we should think about..

whats the real issue.. excluding hostilities in the midle east.. yep the economy..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
2 years 51 weeks ago, 1:18 PM

HampsterW

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straits of Hormuz,

if there were an event, the U.S. would prevail but might have a rough go of it, I was reading that Iran has a long littoral, to the tune of 1300 nautical miles, that's a lot of nooks and crannies to stash all of the smaller assets that Greg mentioned.

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
2 years 51 weeks ago, 5:53 AM

LLE

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satellite mapping of the nooks and crannies??

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 51 weeks ago, 8:25 AM

HampsterW

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True LLE but

they also said we would be out of Iraq in a few months....LOL! Things don't always go as planned. Then there are things such as mines to consider, it wouldn't be a cake walk imo.

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
2 years 51 weeks ago, 9:06 AM

LLE

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but my intelligence sources tell me that the mine situation is well in hand. That is, anything the Iranians can put up can be effectively disposed of in 24 to 48 hours, without significant danger to the "technology" we are employing.

I do not advocate sabre rattling--I much prefer the Teddy Roosevelt general philosophy, as I said before: "Noblesse Oblige--but do not mess with us". "You want to close Hormuz to oil transportation, and that is not acceptable to us and our allies. It is, unfortunately, time for a somewhat painful lesson to be taught, if you continue to misbehave. We are excellent teachers."

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 51 weeks ago, 9:34 AM

Ishootdaily

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LLE... without a doubt

Teddy had the correct idea.

No sir, he fell into that bullet... Never argue with a stupid person. They'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!!

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