sheeep hmm baaaa baaaaa
Sheep that is an Ebear thing.
They way I see it, we need to get to the point were those signs are for open carry and not concealed carry. The point of concealed carry is that no one should know that you have a gun. As long as it stays concealed, then what would be the problem. This would be a compromise between property rights and 2nd amendment rights. Property rights are not absolute in that an owner cannot prohibit service animals. Those who have gone through with the requirements for legal concealed carry should not be force to leave their protection behind.
But some places its posted by the City or State
thats something else
the force of the law. Disobey the "no guns" sign on the business' door and lose concealed carry permit, maybe even the gun.
I guess its differant from state to state like everything else
They dont need my business
protected by a gun that is locked in the glove box of a car in his parking lot.
If I have no choice but to do business in a "no guns" store I'll do it, if I have a choice I'll go to a guns welcome business.
The shop owner may be willing to take the chance that a robber is going to take the money and skedaddle never to be seen again, no one gets hurt & insurance replaces the cash. That is how it usually happens anyway.
I can accept the argument that a robber not confronted by a legal gun will take what he/she can get and leave in peace.
If a legally armed customer displays a gun and yells "On the ground you mutha ______", bullets can be expected to traverse the length and breadth of the business at that point.
I said "can be expected", the robber may turn and run, may lay down and beg for mercy, may just stand there wetting the trou.
Worst case, he goes into a crouch, presents and proves to be a capable marksman putting bullets into everyone, armed & unarmed, in sight so any perceived threat is neutralized. Not very common but does happen. More likely in innercity/urban areas. In this part of the country robberies usually don't become violent.
For my nickle's worth, if I should ever be in a business while it is being robbed I'll stand quietly and as long as the only thing that happens is the robber gets and goes I'll just watch, let the cops deal with it. I have no interest in doing a collar, too many things can go wrong.
If it turns deadly that is an entirely different matter. What ya think?
In that situation, you are able to make a choice. If we follow the law, then are choices are taken away. Yes we take our business elsewhere, but why should I have to. Businesses cannot refuse you because of your race and religion. So why can they refuse the 2nd amendment. I know this can be a touchy subject, property rights. People want to be able to decide what will or will not happen on their property. However, a business has limits as to whom they can exclude. Even if the business has a sign saying that they reserve the right to refuse service, they cannot deny a black person service. A business that is open to the public has limits on what it can and cannot do.
I also question how other states can refuse to honor my legal right to carry as directed by the constitution's full faith and credit clause. Not because I'm looking for a fight, but I want to be able to decide without having to run afoul of any local or state laws. I have a pretty good idea why they do this, I just need to vent about it.
The federal government cannot interfere with our 2nd amendment rights nor can they interfere with our religion and free speech.
Steve the store owner does not have the power to take our 2nd amend rights away but he can choose to not allow us to take our guns into his store. Notice that he does not bar us from going into his store, just our guns :<))
He and the law are on a firm footing IMHO
Business or not, I call the shots on MY property.
Those who don't like it are free to leave.
you cant dump toxic waste and burn tires without getting in trouble. If you are having a very loud party, you'll be cited for disturbing the peace. Property rights are not absolute and just like with personal rights, yours end where my rights start. So, were is that boundary. We each have free speech, but you cant yell fire in a theater. If you owned and ran a business and decided that people of color were not welcome, how would that work out. We already know, because that battle has been fought. I know this is a sore subject with this crowd, but it is a valid question.
I don't hear any outcry over that.
They never said you can't come in, they just regulate what you can bring in.
You can come to my house, you can bring guns, you can bring beer, leave your drugs in the car.
You are 100% right, because that is a product that they are selling. However, are they telling us what kind of shirt to wear or how our hair is combed? That is my question. Were is the line? We didn't get our rights on accident. We fought for them. For our people to have rights, a king had to lose some of his.
I aint arguing with you, just debating. You are right too, they don't sell guns at the snack bar so what do you do? Stay the hell out of kill zones, that's what! I'm also curious, where do you live? I know your "Location" says United States but I'd like to narrow it down to a region if you don't mind.
If you want to answer that in a PM that's fine. If it aint none of my business, that's fine too.
Mine is "out west" because I work on the road and don't stay put for long stretches. I frequent West Texas, New Mexico and the Oklahoma Panhandle. Throw in the occasional Arizona or Colorado jobs and you get the idea. Only reason I ask is, people like you don't just pop up too often. You seem to think before you type and keep a level head. I appreciate that.
Back on topic.
Dress code? Yeah, that's in most places I'd be found. Uncle Sam didn't let you dress as you liked when you were in the service did he? Told you how to cut yer hair too. But you signed up for that. Nobody made you go.
I live in southwest Missouri. It's the show me state for a reason.
Bolivar, just north of Springfield.
a sis-in-law in that part of the country, near Humansville.
Small world, what part of Arkansas are you from?
I just think its crazy that I go to a gun show and they have this sign. I go in and I can buy a gun and ammo. But, I can't bring in my gun, concealed that is. At a gun show. Even places like bass pro are wishy washy. If every business put up this sign, then what's the point of carrying at all. The whole point is to be able to defend ourselves and not have to ask for a time out to run out to the car and get a gun.
We have the RIGHT to own and carry our guns. To be allowed to carry them into a business or someones private home is a revokable privilege.
We can banter on and on but the truth is that our RIGHT cannot be taken away but where we exercise that RIGHT CAN be dictated by private citizens with the law standing with them.
There are times when the circumstances make the restrictions on carrying a gun seem flat out stupid but we've come a long way since the GCA of 1968.
Appreciate what we have and all the hard work that went into getting us what we now have.
if i may just interject my opinion here.......you both are right,nobody is wrong.vaq,personaly my buddys are welcome to smoke refer,but i have a point where sooner or later i wont be "cool" anymore,and if i understand what your saying i agree wholeheartedly.my basic principal is this is my piece of the pie,so while your here you must follow my rules.
coppertop while i totaly get what you are saying and understand the +/- of each side of the coin,but telling someone to not bring a gun in is FAAAAAAAAR different than a dress code or conflict of bringing your own soda etc.as a business owner do you have the right to refuse service in your opinion?and if you belive you do where can you draw a line?
as a gun advocate i hate to give any ground at all ever,but i belive any place has the LEGAL right to decide what cind of "atmosphere" that place hay have.JMO
Makes me mad when i miss a good thread.. all good thoughts, and have an odd add on here.. AZ has CC as law for all.. Mixed feelings on this, but thats not the point.. we all know the three places where you don't carry.. Banks..Gov buildings.. and Gun stores.. was any place that sold hootch as well, but guess thats droped.. ok so i join the shooters world range.. i make a comment about bringing in the weapons in a range bag, im getting ready to ask him the protocol for this.. He says sure you can bring a range bag or just WEAR in if your only shooting one.. This got me, as it's contrary to the law.. He says they got a waver for it somehow as the idea of everyone clearing thier pieces in the front would be a negative to the (pretty nice) area..
The Range is of course a full time gun store and telling you it feels wierd to walk in packing..
That sign should just say "Psycho Shooting Gallery: Guaranteed No Resistance!"
Have a gun store, here in Texas, that has a "no loaded guns" sign on the door. LOL!
Most gun shops have that sign. My dad even had it on the door at our shop after a guy almost blew him away showing him a 30-30 he wanted to sell. I think it's actually required in some states, hell, even the range down the way from my house has it on the door. You're literally not allowed to load until you're on the range itself. Of course, how often is anyone going to be stupid enough to try and rob a gun shop?
show on TV of, I think, 4 Mex punks strutting into a pawn shop carrying guns. Gun fight broke out. Employee at the counter whipped out his .45 1911, fired it to click and missed every time!
The only person that got hit was a female emp crouched next to Mr Sharpshooter, not a serious wound.
Yep, robbing a gun store prolly would end differently, employee trying to decide which punk only gets shot once instead of twice LOL
From Robbing Her Pawn Shop (VIDEO)
Interesting follow up on this story:
This occurred in SoCal. The woman was found to not have had this handgun registered, the ammo micro-stamped, and in possession of sworn affidavits from three Cali approved sources (e.g. ACLU, Communist party of America, Democrat Party, orgs formerly known as ACORN) swearing not to even ever think about actually using it.
She will be executed at sundown pending the reading of her guilty verdict from a jury being assembled.
Her pawn shop, house, and all other possessions will go to those poor deprived criminals whose rights she violated.
Will she receive a lethal injection? Anally injected AIDS virus, the California way. :<))
That's right. Usually Cali regards capital punishment as barbaric, but for heinous crimes (not stepping in line with the Bolsheviks), they welcome it.