Appropo

Appropo

He ain't no JFK

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2 years 24 weeks ago, 11:17 AM

LLE

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It teaches us a very good lesson, too:

There are liberals---and then there are liberals....a few of them sometimes even seem to make sense; Unfortunately, our president is not one of them!!

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 24 weeks ago, 11:29 AM

greg az

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Had the courage to give Paul Tibbet the order. Course by that time after the carpet fire bombing of Tokyo it was almost humane..

LLE.. your resident WWII expert (among other stuff) do i have my numbers right here.. Seems i've heard in the past that that more lifes were actually lost in the fire bombing of Tokyo than Hiroshima.. Hate that google stuff.. your thoughts sir.

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
2 years 24 weeks ago, 12:39 PM

daisycutter

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important decisions regarding the use of our military. By what I've seen it is their meddling in military decision-making that is their downfall or better, our military downfall.
I firmly believe if Gen. MacArthur had continued to prosecute the Korean "Conflict" as he planned we would be in a better position politically with China today. N. Korea would not exist.
Truman was afraid of the Soviets and China.
As I understand it, Lyndon Johnson micro-managed the Vietnam war, nearly losing it. He was happy to commit the U.S. military to the meat grinder though.

iyaoyas
2 years 24 weeks ago, 12:46 PM

greg az

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Have no idea whos on, Little ESP going on Daisy posted that the same time i got on.. ESP on his part not mine.. Gloria has it in abundance, my "antenna" is in the lowered position re intuitiveness..

Right on the war being micro managed, fear will never win a war..

Good stuff again from team 6 huh.. all 9 captors dead.. Really..gosh who'd a thought it..

Pissed off about Nancy P.. you guys check the "i know something" deal.. like high school..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
2 years 24 weeks ago, 12:47 PM

daisycutter

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again, send in the sailors, they make bad guys be dead. Pretty cool, huh?

When I 1st joined the Navy about all the sailors were know for was drinking, tattoos, nailing loose women, drinking, swabbing decks and drinking. LOL !!

iyaoyas
2 years 24 weeks ago, 12:53 PM

HampsterW

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The only way

Obummer could be like JFK it if he get's shot with a rifle in Texas!!!

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
2 years 24 weeks ago, 12:55 PM

daisycutter

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you've given me hope and lifted my spirits!

iyaoyas
2 years 24 weeks ago, 12:58 PM

samD

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Hampster

What a wonderful mind pic...

2 years 24 weeks ago, 1:03 PM

HampsterW

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yes, it was

rather 'uplifting'....LOL

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
2 years 24 weeks ago, 12:59 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

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Damn, Hamp!

lol
But then Biden would be Prez. Hmm.

US frikkiin Navy. w00t! Making every other nation's naval history look bad by comparison. :D

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
2 years 24 weeks ago, 1:12 PM

LLE

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on WW II---but I was a kid military buff, who kept track of events, even to the extent of a european map with daily updates of the fronts, with movable pushpins. I was also a warplane buff--built solid state black models to be used by the military in recognition/ID exercises, and I knew the specs on almost all of our planes. All of that was against the background of hope that I someday soon would be big enough and look mature enough to lie my age and successfully enlist. [I failed].
I think, when you live through something as enormous as a world war, you mature faster than going thru a "normal" childhood. I was a fiesty, blood thirsty kid and loved hearing about the bombing of Hitler's minions, whether military OR civilian, after what they did to europe and the english mainland. But by the time we got to the B-29, I wasn't so sure about firebombing of the Japanese civilians. I think the numbers of casualties ran into the hundreds of thousands, and still, they were going to fight on, requiring us to invade the mainland. In retrospect, I was amazed that two nukes changed their minds, where the continued devastating firebombing that was taking a fearsome toll, did not change their minds.
Truman was a conservative Democrat with VERY big cojones. He learned from watching a vilified "liberal" President how to make tough decisions when our existential chips were down. He never shrank from doing his duty, whether as a WW I combat artillery officer, or the CIC/USA. He gave us that famous phrase, "the buck stops here". That tells me he was one "liberal" I could respect and honor as a great American, even when he fired MacArthur, and even when he wanted to extend my active duty time an additional year.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 24 weeks ago, 1:20 PM

samD

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LLE

All that kind of makes you an expert!

2 years 24 weeks ago, 1:57 PM

clintlebo

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This is an interesting question. The fire bombing was a campaign. There were numerous flights and two different styles of bombs employed to damage the areas. Tokyo received the napalm where as Osaka experienced the thermite.
I have seen reports as high as 200,000 people dead or wounded and many millions more displaced.
The atomic weapons dropped were two missions. Hiroshima was delivered the "little boy" by the Enola Gay causing 80,000 casualties instantly.60,000 more people are thought to have perished due to radiation fallout.

Bockscar dropped the "fat man" onto Nagasaki 3 days later. They actually missed their target by a mile, but killed an estimated 75,000 people instantly and perhaps that many from radiation.

So an estimated total causulty for the atomic campaign was roughly 290,000.

I think it is more important to compare the devastation on a time scale. That is where the shear awesomeness of the atomic campaign over shadows the fire bombing.

clint

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." (Calvin & Hobbes)
2 years 24 weeks ago, 2:12 PM

greg az

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i agree Clint..

Be surprised if we weren't all in agreement here.. You can see from LLE's post that he feels the same way.. The Bomb's awesomeness was the big factor.. Every other bombing of civilian populace. be it in London, Dresden, or Tokyo has the unintended effect of bringing the population together .. The bomb was an absolute necessity..

It also overshadows the fire bombing which is generally ignored and i would bet most kids have no idea it occurred, this is a good thing as it should never be part of revisionist history..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
2 years 24 weeks ago, 1:59 PM

greg az

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No kidding Sam.. LLE

Saint.. you picking up on all the quotable stuff in LLE's post..

lets start with this: --built solid state black models to be used by the military in recognition/ID exercises, and I knew the specs on almost all of our planes.. I was a kid military buff, who kept track of events, even to the extent of a European map with daily updates of the fronts, with movable pushpins..

Duh.. im thinking that any pretense of not being an expert is a humble but inaccurate statement.. In "legalese" you have been vetted, and given expert witness status..

I would bet a lot of us have major WWII interest.. One of the great things about Gloria and the girls, coupled with no interest in cloths, .i can count on all "gift giving" to be books on either the War, Military, or Guns..

a man has to hold his word, hold his beliefs, and hold a good sight picture.
2 years 24 weeks ago, 3:38 PM

Saint J.M. Browning

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Greg

Yessir. I'll be getting on late tonight and I'll have something up then. I'm sneaking in a post here and there in between butt-kickin's here at work. ;)

"I don't think Hank done it this way" - Waylon
2 years 24 weeks ago, 3:53 PM

LLE

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a bigger head than I deserve. No false modesty here. I really enjoy discussing topics like the above. Gotta say Clint hit it on the nailhead. Undoubtedly, the awesomeness of the nukes did what thousands of tons of destructive firebombs could not do. It was one thing for the emporer/god and his banzai warrior executives to laud and support nobly dying in firebomb raids[while they were untouchable in their bunkers]. It was clearly something else, for them to envision being incinerated because there was no place to hide.
Suffice to say that General Lemay's B-29 tour de force was experiencing losses beyond what would have been expected, and had great trouble hitting their programmed targets. I'm sure he and his bosses were happy to give the nukes a try.

Too old to fight, Too old to run, guess that's why I carry a gun! "would someone show this asshole the way out of town".[Rabbi Avram Belinski-aka "The Frisco Kid"]
2 years 24 weeks ago, 2:15 PM

samD

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But as it was made in Belgium sometime in the 20's or 30's, it is quite possible.
It photos alot better than it actually is. I used to shoot 50 rounds of trap with it up until a few years ago.
When I got it in the 50's from a Navy guy, traded and old Outboard Motor that I had. It shot 2 9/16th " shells. I had it redone for 2 3/4"

2 years 24 weeks ago, 2:30 PM

leanneshu

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Hi!

Just dropping in to say "Hi" to everyone. Going back to work after LOA is kicking my ass. Crack ass of dawn is not my friend.lol

2 years 24 weeks ago, 2:37 PM

daisycutter

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`

iyaoyas
2 years 24 weeks ago, 2:40 PM

daisycutter

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`Repeating myself, a sure sign of senility, damn !

iyaoyas
2 years 24 weeks ago, 2:43 PM

leanneshu

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dc

No, since I'm a vendor rep. You'd think after 4yrs I'd try to like it. Yesterday was 4:30am to 4pm helpin the boss get ready for market tour.

2 years 24 weeks ago, 3:59 PM

tallguy007

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Leanneshu

sound sliek me my day starts @ 0400 and they always waz me to stay later and work sat's.

DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR
2 years 24 weeks ago, 2:45 PM

daisycutter

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Lot of miles?

`

iyaoyas
2 years 24 weeks ago, 2:53 PM

leanneshu

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miles

yep, was being the team player.

2 years 24 weeks ago, 5:14 PM

samD

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Leeanne

I am so sorry about WORK! That is an un-godly hour. The only way I could get up that early is to stay up all night.

Work is the curse of the drinking class!

2 years 24 weeks ago, 6:12 PM

HampsterW

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Yeah I sure don't

miss my CG days where Reveille was at 0400 (o dark thirty for the twelve hour crowd)...lol

Change you can truly believe in comes from the barrel of a gun---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ron Paul 2012----Vote the bastards out!---------------------------------
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