Stand your Ground or Castle Doctrine States in the U.S.

Stand your Ground or Castle Doctrine States in the U.S.

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4 years 4 weeks ago, 12:45 PM

daisycutter

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defender did not retreat, he/she fired. Maybe Arkansas does have "retreat when threatened" law but the courts seem to rule by the "stand your ground" doctrine.
:<)

iyaoyas
4 years 4 weeks ago, 4:52 PM

samD

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DC good news

You ever met a liberal judge in Arkansas, except in one of them big cities.

4 years 4 weeks ago, 5:52 PM

daisycutter

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who thinks flipping off a cop is 1st amendment protected speech. Where do those stupid assholes come from?

iyaoyas
4 years 4 weeks ago, 6:11 PM

coppertop

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In all fairness, I've been to Fayetteville and maybe that cop deserved it. I tend to be sympathetic towards law enforcement, but I also know several that are real jerks.

4 years 4 weeks ago, 6:27 PM

daisycutter

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cop was saying "fuck you". The cop had told him to move his truck.
Everything that happened before he told the cop fuck you is irrelevant.
I do not know how the cop behaved in telling him to move the truck but that does not matter.
Fuck you does not meet the community standards of behavior in almost any corner of the U.S.
Where the courts went off the rails is interfering with states and communities setting standards.
The Constitution does not allow the federal government to enterfere with our speech but to not have any restraints on speech is foolish and sets up a situation in which the majoritie's rights are infringed by a few assholes with foul mouths.

iyaoyas
4 years 4 weeks ago, 8:09 PM

coppertop

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I'm playing some devils advocate here. But yes, we do need standards. The problem is that who gets to decide what those standards are. Whether we like it or not, our country has become way more diverse then when we were founded. The good or bad of that is a whole other discussion. Ok, so why stop at flipping the bird to the cops? What if it were a criminal offense to bad mouth the sitting president. Should the office of president be protected like this police officer or do we the people still have our freedom of speech. I think what you getting at is that used to people practiced restraint in what they said. People conducted themselves with a certain respect for one another. These are what the social norms were and most people followed them. However, how can you hold a random person to a higher standard then the vice president who openly said fuck you on the senate floor?

Freedom can only exist when the people practice self restraint and responsibility. That is the paradox, for all to have freedom, all must limit themselves. When you use the power of government, you tend trample freedom and not really protect the people.

4 years 4 weeks ago, 10:19 PM

daisycutter

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state and local municipalities rights to keep behavior within community standards a person would be arrested for saying fuck in an area where other people would be offended by that speech.
The federal government tried to decide what community standards should be, imagine that, a cluster of morons in Washington D.C. trying to make a set of standards that fit Los Angeles, Ca, Lebanon, MO, Houston, TX and La Grange, WY. That's bullshit. The locals can do it by themselves without the federales help.
Let's not try debating totalitarian excesses, that's way off the charts. No way a city ordinance controlling foul language in Fargo, SD is going to effect you or me.

iyaoyas
4 years 4 weeks ago, 10:06 AM

coppertop

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Ok, let's look at it this way. By your approach, the Muslims could enact Islamic rules of conduct in towns with high concentrations of Muslims. Or, how about all the Hispanics in northwest Arkansas deciding to make Spanish the official language? The bill of rights is there to protect the individual from the majority. Just look at the map at the top. We all have the same 2nd amendment, but look how different that right is applied across the states, and cities for that matter. The constitution says that my 2nd amendment shall not be infringed, but many locals deny my right anyway. The constitution says that other states must give full faith and credit to the laws of my state. Most commonly used to honor our drivers license when we travel. The problem is that we play games with this. We here in the Midwest don't want honor the marriages performed in other states for gays. States like Illinois, don't honor my concealed carry. When I hear talk of states rights, I often think this is just code for getting away with not following the constitution.

Getting back to your police officer, how much power are you willing to give him? Is he to be feared
And never offended? Or is he a public servant that works for the people? You can't force people to live by your moral code, no matter how many laws are passed. We have fought the war on drugs for how long now? What has that got us? I think we have too many laws anyway. In the beginning, God gave one rule, don't eat from that tree. We failed. God then gave us ten commandments to live by. We fail that daily. However, just posting the commandments will not change that. People have to make that choice for themselves.

4 years 4 weeks ago, 12:35 PM

daisycutter

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Copper

"Getting back to your police officer, how much power are you willing to give him? Is he to be feared"
LOL, feared because...????

If laws enforcing civility were brought to bear the police officer's "power" would be equal to yours. Going to jail for saying fuck you to you would be no greater police act than going to jail for saying fuck you to a cop.
When laws on genteel behavior are enforced police over-reaction is less likely since people would be less likely to offend one another knowing they'd go to jail.

Muslims want to enact sharia law in their community? Of course they do, it's their religion. Would them doing that in Detroit affect me down here? Nope, too many Evangelicals here.

Maybe Dearborn would have majority Jehovah's Witness'. Everyone in town walks around knocking on each others doors handing each other "Watch Tower" pamphlets, can you picture that? LOL!!
Perhaps Loma Linda, California could have a majority Seventh Day Adventists closing businesses at sundown Friday not to open until sundown Saturday. No pork on sale anywhere. Scary, huh? I know, congress, under the interstate commerce clause could send in the Army, send the people to secret prison camps with summary executions if the locals tried to enforce those rules on all people in town but is that right? Couldn't people who are uncomfortable with SDA move to Redlands or San Berdoo? No, they have to stay there being miserable, being a thorn in the side of their neighbors just so they can have their "rights", stupid!

I like living in a "dry county", I can spend my booze money in MO or OK while they have the trash to clean up. If this county goes "wet" this November and a liquor store opens near my home I'll have to move. I have the "right" to live among like minded people, don't I?

Just as long as other people do not stomp on me I'm okay, if the J.W.s block my door so I can't come and go as I wish I'll call the cops and file a complaint against them for public nuisance.
If muslims try to get my wife into a burka I'll call the cops and file assault charges 'cause I won't live in a muslim community, a J.W. community or anywhere else I would not fit in or by their nature the citizens there would offend me. I'm not going to cry about my "rights" being taken away by them either.

From day one of this country we've had clusters of people who shared interests in common and enacted rules and laws to protect their beliefs and customs in their community. Except for a few "witches" burned @ the steak, little or no harm done. :<)

Turn people loose to govern, police, control their own personal behavior and you end up with anarchy, sorry, I can't handle that. South Central Los Angeles, Detroit, Bronx. Just about every large city has "People have[ing] to make that choice for themselves". It just don't seem to work.

All this thinking is starting to hurt my brain, no big thing, huh? LOL

iyaoyas
4 years 4 weeks ago, 2:09 PM

coppertop

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I understand were your coming from, but think back to the era of Jim crow. As a nation, we decided that separate but equal doesn't work. Be careful about only wanting to live with like minded people, reservations suck just ask an Indian. I've heard about the whole dry county thing in Arkansas. This is a real good example. The county is going to vote. If it goes wet, then doesn't that mean that the people want it that way. Also, where would you go? We are blessed to live in a country that has choices. Some of those choices may not be "good" but they are ours to make. If you don't want to drink, don't. If you don't like porn, don't buy it. If you don't like Walmart, don't shop there. If you don't like guns, then don't have them.

We have lowered ourselves to the lowest common denominator, someone may abuse or misuse something and should be protected. Is Bloomberg really going to make people be healthy by restricting how big a soda a person can buy? If we want to control something, then look at a mirror and start with that person. We can choose to soar as eagles or to roll with the pigs.

We have a multitude of problems facing us today. My 2nd amendment is important to me. To be honest, what two consenting adults choose to do is not that important to me. We have to pick our battles. As a country, we are at the brink of financial ruin. Our people need jobs and security from those that would do us harm. We need to fight the battles that trully matter.

samD's picture
Posted by: samD
4 years 4 weeks ago
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